Election Day Game Thread

[jerryroche]

America has jumped the shark.

"Even before the party started, I could smell disaster in the air. I knew it, I sensed it, even as I finished dressing for the blasted party." —Bette Davis as Margo Channing, All About Eve, 1950

[Love child of shawn kemp]

Anyone get the idea the networks release their state by state projections in a manner to make the election seem as close as possible to keep ratings up? Magically, at 11:29, CNN calls the election. Just in time for bed.

[mattvan1]

Anyway, hurray for four more years with no clear mandate from anyone/for anyone!! And yeah...woulda been that way had Romney won too.

Almost certainly true, but as much as I disliked Romney there was at least a small hope that Ryan could pull us back from the abyss. Now we're plunging head first into that fucker and in 4 years time the entitlements will be further entrenched as "the American way"

Note to all the stupid shitheads who run the Republican party. Ronald Reagan is still dead. Might want to come up with a new plan

[e0y2e3]

Nate SIlver >>>> Karl Rove, Dick Morris, OJ, Dmiles and Commodor.....

Looking toward a huge sample size of data and simply reporting on the numbers is a novel idea, I know....

[peeker643]

Anyway, hurray for four more years with no clear mandate from anyone/for anyone!! And yeah...woulda been that way had Romney won too.

Almost certainly true, but as much as I disliked Romney there was at least a small hope that Ryan could pull us back from the abyss. Now we're plunging head first into that fucker and in 4 years time the entitlements will be further entrenched as "the American way"

Note to all the stupid shitheads who run the Republican party. Ronald Reagan is still dead. Might want to come up with a new plan

Agreed. I am no better off today than I was four years ago. My house is worth less, the weak economy continues to make this an employers' market, my benefits are substantially more expensive and cover far less. My head exploding 22 months ago cost over $20k out of pocket. Had it happened a day earlier (as it was Jan 1) it would have cost me $5k oop.

I'm afraid after working for another four years in this environment, that the quality of life for those not working and benefiting from me working will actually surpass my quality of life.

Meh...it's the entitlement generation. It's what can I get, not what can I earn. Wondering if it's time to teach kids how to game the system as effectively and efficiently as possible or actually work their asses off. Not sure which one gets you further ahead any more.

[motherscratcher]

Nate SIlver >>>> Karl Rove, Dick Morris, OJ, Dmiles and Commodor.....

Looking toward a huge sample size of data and simply reporting on the numbers is a novel idea, I know....

50 for 50. Silver had a better night than Obama. Math FTW!

Now keep that voodoo shit out of my sports analysis as sports is the only place on the earth where math cannot tell you anything you don't already know or help in any way.

[peeker643]

Nate SIlver >>>> Karl Rove, Dick Morris, OJ, Dmiles and Commodor.....

Looking toward a huge sample size of data and simply reporting on the numbers is a novel idea, I know....

50 for 50. Silver had a better night than Obama. Math FTW!

Now keep that voodoo shit out of my sports analysis as sports is the only place on the earth where math cannot tell you anything you don't already know or help in any way.

Why don't you or Silver use math and the data to predict each and every game of the baseball season? It's one thing to use numbers to tell you what will happen.

It's another thing entirely to use numbers to explain what you just saw.

I think even you likely understand that. You're just feeling cheeky...

[motherscratcher]

Lol, I knew I probably shouldn't, but sometimes I just can't resist poking things with a stick.


Last night was great. Rove, Donald...Victoria Jackson all with epic melts. Good family fun.

[e0y2e3]

At the end of the day, having a Dem president, a Republican House and more importantly than anything a Senate with no majority capable of breaking a Filibuster, you're staring at another four years of complete and utter dead-lock brought to you by our shitty two party system and broken ass political priorities.

[Sea Foam Green]

My thoughts exactly. After all that time, effort, and money. Nothing fucking changed.

Just think of all the good those resources could have been dedicated to.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Yeah those people with their damn entitlements living like kings I tell you!

Republicans lost because they went too far to the right. People don't want to hear male assholes pontificating on the subject of rape. People don't want to hear that 47% of Americans aren't worth caring about.

Biggest wins of the night for the left is getting Warren into congress and Grayson back. REAL progressives.

[e0y2e3]

Whenever I saw a commercial with Warren in it I feared for her jumping through the screen and eating my soul. That woman is terrifying.

The Republican's Poster Boy from 2010 losing to that wicked which looking thing is hilarious.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

And there was nothing better than Karl Rove arguing with own polling people over Ohio. It was clear much earlier in the night that the late vote counts from NEO and Lucas County were going to put Obama over the top.

Really epic TV, Fox News went into a death and shame spiral.

[e0y2e3]

Peeker, Silver started out doing statistical analysis for baseball before moving into the prime spot for Politics over the last two presidential elections...

He developed/ran PECOTA for Baseball prospectus.

SO SUCK ON THAT

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Whenever I saw a commercial with Warren in it I feared for her jumping through the screen and eating my soul. That woman is terrifying.

The Republican's Poster Boy from 2010 losing to that wicked which looking thing is hilarious.

At least Brown can sell that stupid truck now.

[dmiles]

My kid and a bunch of his smart aleck 18 year old friends went Gary Johnson. I tried to explain that we all compromise, if this were some Euro-style multi-party system you end up forming coalition governments anyway. What's the difference in the US of A we just do it before the election.

Ah well at least the kids are already anti-Grayson at a young age.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The best tweets of the night came from that fucktard Donald Trump. Motherfucker was calling for a revolution. Because we all know how easy it is to carry out a revolution. Those things are easy as pie. They never break down to faction on faction fighting.

Trump is the man to lead the bloodless coup. Unless you do a quick history search and find out what happens to people like Trump during revolutions.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Taking out Bachmann would have been a nice cherry on top of the sundae. But we do need some comic relief. Watching that batshit crazy woman talk in one of the biggest joys in life.

[peeker643]

Peeker, Silver started out doing statistical analysis for baseball before moving into the prime spot for Politics over the last two presidential elections...

He developed/ran PECOTA for Baseball prospectus.

SO SUCK ON THAT

I'll accept just all of one day's winners from him early next season. Comparing that analysis with needing stats to tell you how bad Ubaldo Jimenez was last season is stupidity personified.

And CDT, no one said the entitled with their hands out are living like kings no more than I am living like a king. The point is the gap between them not working working and surviving and me working and surviving is far more narrow than it should be.

If you don't think entitlement is rampant not sure what to tell you.

I personally don't need the government to tell me who can get married and to legislate my morality. Not either side. They can fuck off with all of that. I don't care if John and Joe have a wedding and adopt a kid and I have no issue with Tina the teenage skank aborting a pregnancy. I would, however, prefer not paying for the guy who won't work, to have his smart phone.

[jerryroche]

I personally don't need the government to tell me who can get married and to legislate my morality. Not either side. They can fuck off with all of that. I don't care if John and Joe have a wedding and adopt a kid and I have no issue with Tina the teenage skank aborting a pregnancy. I would, however, prefer not paying for the guy who won't work, to have his smart phone.

^^^^This.

Maybe the only benefit to being an old fart is that, for the next half-century, I won't have to put up with all the government bullshit that's coming down the road, like most of you guys will.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

You do know that when you bring up entitlements, a huge chunk of those people are working poor and old people, right? I have no problem with kicking people off who really abuse the system. But i'm not going to cut off aid to people who really need it because some people suck at life.

Hell...... even the Romans gave out free or subsidized grain doles to the poor every month. It was the world's first entitlement. Food being a early form of a "human right" to them.

[peeker643]

You do know that when you bring up entitlements, a huge chunk of those people are working poor and old people, right? I have no problem with kicking people off who really abuse the system. But i'm not going to cut off aid to people who really need it because some people suck at life.

Hell...... even the Romans gave out free or subsidized grain doles to the poor every month. It was the world's first entitlement. Food being a early form of a "human right" to them.

No. When I talk about entitlements I'm not talking about people who need legit help and an assist getting back on their feet. You know that and you should probably know me better than that. That's a lazy and stereotypical response and to put me or others in that box is as ridiculous as me saying you are looking for a handout and a life without work because you voted how you did.

A system that allows for the rampant abuse that plagues this system is a bad system. Period. Moving others toward that level isn't the answer either. But that's the way it's going and many of the middle class can't help but feel they're working for others who have no desire or need to work themselves. Not everyone, but enough people.

Part of it's simply cyclical economics. I understand that. But I'm not any better off today than I was four years ago and in many ways it's worse/more expensive because of the political tides.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

No. When I talk about entitlements I'm not talking about people who need legit help and an assist getting back on their feet. You know that and you should probably know me better than that. That's a lazy and stereotypical response and to put me or others in that box is as ridiculous as me saying you are looking for a handout and a life without work because you voted how you did.

Not singling you out, but.

Using entitlements as an argument, in the broad sense, is basically putting all those people in the same box. 99% of the anti-entitlement arguments I hear around here make no distinction between the people who need it and those who abuse it. And the policies endorsed by these folks would hurt the people who need it. It's just black and white, we MUST cut entitlements. No matter if the good will suffer along with the bad.

There has to be distinction for the conversation to be meaningful IMHO.

[jerryroche]

A system that allows for the rampant abuse that plagues this system is a bad system.

You could make a case that many of the operations fronted by the federal government are a waste of money—call it abuse of the taxpayer dollar. The 50-year-old "War on Poverty." The 30-year-old Department of Education. 40-year-old Amtrak. I could go on and on. Hell, as a U.S. Army veteran, I know from first-hand experience that there's even rampant waste and probably fraud in the DoD. And how many recipients of food stamps or TANF don't take advantage of the "free" money? Maybe not most, but many.

And Obama wants to partially fund Obamacare by "eliminating waste and fraud"? Good luck with that!

[peeker643]

No. When I talk about entitlements I'm not talking about people who need legit help and an assist getting back on their feet. You know that and you should probably know me better than that. That's a lazy and stereotypical response and to put me or others in that box is as ridiculous as me saying you are looking for a handout and a life without work because you voted how you did.

Not singling you out, but.

Using entitlements as an argument, in the broad sense, is basically putting all those people in the same box. 99% of the anti-entitlement arguments I hear around here make no distinction between the people who need it and those who abuse it. And the policies endorsed by these folks would hurt the people who need it. It's just black and white, we MUST cut entitlements. No matter if the good will suffer along with the bad.

There has to be distinction for the conversation to be meaningful IMHO.

You don't think that it's inferred? You think that those who are not in favor of handouts want to eliminate necessary aid as opposed to eliminating the massive amount of fraud and enabling that these programs are filled with?

That people here can't see the difference between helping a person up and getting them headed in the right direction as opposed to providing them with a sustained free ride and no incentive to be productive?

All due respect, but I think that's nuts. That would seem to be a far more negative of perception of people and their intellect than the 'cruelty' of those who want to actually stop perpetuating the era of entitlement.

And you can only take so much for so long from many people before you turn them into the people who suddenly find themselves in need of assistance.

And, to use your Roman analogy, where's all the grain going to come from each year when you're not producing more of it?

[peeker643]

Lake County was mentioned numerous times on CNN and FOX as a bell weather Ohio County. You can see why here:

http://www.lakecountyohio.gov/Portals/61/EL45.HTM

[Cerebral_DownTime]

No. When I talk about entitlements I'm not talking about people who need legit help and an assist getting back on their feet. You know that and you should probably know me better than that. That's a lazy and stereotypical response and to put me or others in that box is as ridiculous as me saying you are looking for a handout and a life without work because you voted how you did.

Not singling you out, but.

Using entitlements as an argument, in the broad sense, is basically putting all those people in the same box. 99% of the anti-entitlement arguments I hear around here make no distinction between the people who need it and those who abuse it. And the policies endorsed by these folks would hurt the people who need it. It's just black and white, we MUST cut entitlements. No matter if the good will suffer along with the bad.

There has to be distinction for the conversation to be meaningful IMHO.

You don't think that it's inferred? You think that those who are not in favor of handouts want to eliminate necessary aid as opposed to eliminating the massive amount of fraud and enabling that these programs are filled with?

That people here can't see the difference between helping a person up and getting them headed in the right direction as opposed to providing them with a sustained free ride and no incentive to be productive?

All due respect, but I think that's nuts. That would seem to be a far more negative of perception of people and their intellect than the 'cruelty' of those who want to actually stop perpetuating the era of entitlement.

And you can only take so much for so long from many people before you turn them into the people who suddenly find themselves in need of assistance.

And, to use your Roman analogy, where's all the grain going to come from each year when you're not producing more of it?

I don't think it's inferred at all. Especially when some of the people with those takes voted for a guy who basically said he doesn't give a shit about 47% of the population because they don't take "personal responsibility".

Honestly, I think "entitlements" is a really broad term that's thrown around too much without enough discussion on the specifics.

As for the Romans, they had a special grain surplus for the poor. And because of their highly accurate census (which included personal goods), they had a solid idea of who needed free grain from year to year. In years of bad harvest, they turned to the land owning nobility to contribute to the public grain supply. Several times the Senate passed motions that taxed the nobles in the form of grain for the public good.

[peeker643]

No. When I talk about entitlements I'm not talking about people who need legit help and an assist getting back on their feet. You know that and you should probably know me better than that. That's a lazy and stereotypical response and to put me or others in that box is as ridiculous as me saying you are looking for a handout and a life without work because you voted how you did.

Not singling you out, but.

Using entitlements as an argument, in the broad sense, is basically putting all those people in the same box. 99% of the anti-entitlement arguments I hear around here make no distinction between the people who need it and those who abuse it. And the policies endorsed by these folks would hurt the people who need it. It's just black and white, we MUST cut entitlements. No matter if the good will suffer along with the bad.

There has to be distinction for the conversation to be meaningful IMHO.

You don't think that it's inferred? You think that those who are not in favor of handouts want to eliminate necessary aid as opposed to eliminating the massive amount of fraud and enabling that these programs are filled with?

That people here can't see the difference between helping a person up and getting them headed in the right direction as opposed to providing them with a sustained free ride and no incentive to be productive?

All due respect, but I think that's nuts. That would seem to be a far more negative of perception of people and their intellect than the 'cruelty' of those who want to actually stop perpetuating the era of entitlement.

And you can only take so much for so long from many people before you turn them into the people who suddenly find themselves in need of assistance.

And, to use your Roman analogy, where's all the grain going to come from each year when you're not producing more of it?

I don't think it's inferred at all. Especially when some of the people with those takes voted for a guy who basically said he doesn't give a shit about 47% of the population because they don't take "personal responsibility".

Honestly, I think "entitlements" is a really broad term that's thrown around too much without enough discussion on the specifics.

As for the Romans, they had a special grain surplus for the poor. And because of their highly accurate census (which included personal goods), they had a solid idea of who needed free grain from year to year. In years of bad harvest, they turned to the land owning nobility to contribute to the public grain supply. Several times the Senate passed motions that taxed the nobles in the form of grain for the public good.

At some point the number of people needing grain is going to exceed the amount of grain grown.

Even with a plan that's better than the one we have here.

And while 47% is ridiculously high, there is a sizable percentage that actually doesn't take enough personal responsibility. Many of whom look not to "what do I need to get by and get better" but "what else ya got for me".

Not an Obama/Dem issue exclusively by any means. But still extremely dangerous and debilitating.

ETA: Bottom line for me as my friend Sean Harvey so eloquently stated, is "too many people see government as a benefactor and not as an employee and the press on both sides simply perpetuates falsehoods."

[peeker643]

Sean Harvey is a writer/author and the guy who wrote "One Moment Changes Everything- The All-America Tragedy of Don Rogers" ( http://amzn.to/VDMVw1 )

And this sums it up for me:

"I'm not surprised by anything that happened in the election yesterday. Californians again voted to raise taxes, they protected the power of PUBLIC sector unions, and the national trend of viewing government as a benefactor and not an employee, which began under Clinton, expanded under Bush, and exploded under Obama, continues. We were bound to reach a tipping point in this country, and we most certainly have. Victims man the bully pulpit. The members of our once proud Fourth Estate feverishly work to perpetuate lockstep falsehoods. And above all else, blame, and not self-reliance, motivates the masses. What made America great was our differences, not from one another, but from the rest of the world. And yet for some reason we are trying very hard to be like the rest of the world. People vote not for the person who will make America strongest in the long run, but for the person who promises us the most stuff today. It's as though there is no tomorrow to save or sacrifice for. Would Romney have re-calibrated the dismal emotional tide of America? Probably not. But "Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather, what you can do for your country," sounds oh so quaint just now, doesn't it? It was a great ride. By far the best in history. But the slide continues. And there will probably be no going back from here."

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'd just like to seem more discussion on the specifics of what reforms need to be made to entitlement programs.

For the Romans, the need for grain rarely exceeded what they had. They had massive grain supplies from Sicily and especially the Nile Delta region of Egypt. And reselling public grain for a profit was sometimes punished by having your hand cut off. (FUDU drools at the idea of doing that to people who sell their food stamps )

[peeker643]

I'd just like to seem more discussion on the specifics of what reforms need to be made to entitlement programs.

For the Romans, the need for grain rarely exceeded what they had. They had massive grain supplies from Sicily and especially the Nile Delta region of Egypt. And reselling public grain for a profit was sometimes punished by having your hand cut off. (FUDU drools at the idea of doing that to people who sell their food stamps )

Then what we need are more spoils of war and conquest. Did Obama lift Bin Laden's wallet and checkbook when he whacked him?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Conquest and spoils of war really hasn't been our strong suit since about '45.

[peeker643]

Conquest and spoils of war really hasn't been our strong suit since about '45.

No worries. The Chinese have been good to us. Gonna go out and get a HiSense LCD TV with the $48 tax return I get in April.

[pup]

Just another Monday after a Brown's game.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Does anyone else find it funny that the GOP's only goal for the last 4 years was to stop Obama from getting reelected?

FAIL.

[peeker643]

Does anyone else find it funny that the GOP's only goal for the last 4 years was to stop Obama from getting reelected?

FAIL.

I'm not sure it's any funnier than Obama's only goal being to get re-elected. One bright spot I can see is this means the last year and a half of his term won't be spent campaigning for another one.

And the fact that the last year or so will be as a lame duck really won't have much of an effect him getting anything done.

See how easy it is to be a tool?

[General]

Any pointers on how to get on the entitlement gravy train? I'm tired of work.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'm not sure it's any funnier than Obama's only goal being to get re-elected.

You're insane. Did you pay attention to anything that happened in the first 4 years?

[peeker643]

I'm not sure it's any funnier than Obama's only goal being to get re-elected.

You're insane. Did you pay attention to anything that happened in the first 4 years?

Yes- My salary in all four years increased at a rate less than the cost of living or didn't increase at all, we went further into debt, my health benefits became far more expensive while offering significantly less in terms of benefits and coverages, my property taxes remained at one number while the value of my home went down, my 401k continued to bottom out, numerous smaller P&C companies closed creating a glut of qualified people and far fewer jobs and therefore a lack of upward mobility.

Oh...but foreign enemies of state were given many of the same rights as the people they were trying to destroy.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

You should have "Craftsman" tattooed on your forehead, because you're a tool guaranteed for life.

[peeker643]

I will give the Obama campaign credit though. They recognized early and never strayed from the fact that in swing states they needed to get every voter to the polls.

They won with boots on the ground. The faithful were locked in. They got enough of the indies to get it done.

The drawback to that is you don't ride back to Washington with a mandate and 75% approval.

[Bayou Tribe]

Baton Rouge keepin it real...

[Gradysmanldy]

I'd just like to seem more discussion on the specifics of what reforms need to be made to entitlement programs.

For the Romans, the need for grain rarely exceeded what they had. They had massive grain supplies from Sicily and especially the Nile Delta region of Egypt. And reselling public grain for a profit was sometimes punished by having your hand cut off. (FUDU drools at the idea of doing that to people who sell their food stamps )

I'm with this, 100%. The government in general is a mess of unreliable programs, fraud, and redundancy. The problem isn't attacking "entitlement" or thinking that almost half of america doesn't give a shit and wants to live on handsouts; the problem isn't immigration reform or no child left behind, etc.

The problem is that you can't get dick or shit done in Congress because some lobbyist will fight to keep any program, no matter how poorly its run, from beind disbanded or losing funding. So you have 4-5 programs that do the exact same thing, poorly, in every sector of government; we're incapable of pushing excellence as a virtue, and both parties have shitty messed up rationales for working around it.

We needed someone in office who was going to change the NATURE of government, and everyone thought it was going to be Obama. It's clear now that the only way you'll get sweeping government reform is if it's at the behest of a huge event (world war) or an independent President, because both parties are too beholden to whackjob left wing/ring wing nut jobs to really enact any kind of lasting change to the system itself, which is a horrible mess.

[FUDU]

Yeah those people with their damn entitlements living like kings I tell you!

I know you winked and all, but in a sense yeah they do live like kings, compared to how they would be living based upon their own merits and their own levels of accountability to making a life for themselves.

peeker is right on this, not that it is rocket science or anything. Sadly, we have dug ourselves a huge hole that we might not ever be able to pull out of regarding this handout society, and we've gone so far as to make it taboo and politically incorrect to even talk about.

There are now full generations of children (growing up from birth) in this entitlement age, learning the examples set forth by mom & dad, pathetic, and embarrassing examples of what it takes to make it in this world. So many of those people have simply settled for the easy path, instead of putting forth the effort to earn more of what is rightfully theirs, and anyone else's to take.

Truly needy is truly needy, but we've muddied up the waters so much nobody knows who is or isn't, actually we're just afraid to start digging deeper to find out.

The time for tough love comes sooner or later, and it is getting late in this ball game. There's a reason we're not permitted to feed wildlife in nature and animals in zoos, there's a reason doctors don't prescribe antibiotics every time you get sick, it strengthens dependency and weakens immunity. Without a doubt dependency is perpetuated with the delivery of every government check.

[FUDU]

Any pointers on how to get on the entitlement gravy train? I'm tired of work.

Throw away your ID, start speaking Spanish, and disregard anyone who actually is a US citizen and works for a living, maing!

...and you live in Florida, correct? It should be a lot easier to do down there.

[Orenthal]

Feti?

You just made that up.

Yes. Oh well, most hated aspect was LeBron James tweet. Fucking low information voter. Also Jessie Jackson Jr. won from the insane asylum.

[Orenthal]

You do know that when you bring up entitlements, a huge chunk of those people are working poor and old people, right? I have no problem with kicking people off who really abuse the system. But i'm not going to cut off aid to people who really need it because some people suck at life.

Hell...... even the Romans gave out free or subsidized grain doles to the poor every month. It was the world's first entitlement. Food being a early form of a "human right" to them.

I just don't like when those working poor crow about their Obama phone. Had to hear a lady (WHITE) do that this morning. Cunt has cable TV, big screen, married... Guess those are all necessities. I have no problem with food stams actually, but they should only go to people who actually need them and not people gaming the system so they can be lazy and live an acceptable life. It's just a run on free stuff plain and simple.

[General]

Any pointers on how to get on the entitlement gravy train? I'm tired of work.

Throw away your ID, start speaking Spanish, and disregard anyone who actually is a US citizen and works for a living, maing!

...and you live in Florida, correct? It should be a lot easier to do down there.

You should see some of these chimps at the feed bar down here, and this is Northwest Florida. It isn't just Spanish speaking folks either, the handout line is an equal opportunity treasure chest here.

I offered a guy I know a job for $12 and hour, FT year round. He turned me down to work on a para-sail boat for 3 months. Now he is on the dole.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Yeah those people with their damn entitlements living like kings I tell you!

I know you winked and all, but in a sense yeah they do live like kings, compared to how they would be living based upon their own merits and their own levels of accountability to making a life for themselves.

peeker is right on this, not that it is rocket science or anything. Sadly, we have dug ourselves a huge hole that we might not ever be able to pull out of regarding this handout society, and we've gone so far as to make it taboo and politically incorrect to even talk about.

There are now full generations of children (growing up from birth) in this entitlement age, learning the examples set forth by mom & dad, pathetic, and embarrassing examples of what it takes to make it in this world. So many of those people have simply settled for the easy path, instead of putting forth the effort to earn more of what is rightfully theirs, and anyone else's to take.

Truly needy is truly needy, but we've muddied up the waters so much nobody knows who is or isn't, actually we're just afraid to start digging deeper to find out.

The time for tough love comes sooner or later, and it is getting late in this ball game. There's a reason we're not permitted to feed wildlife in nature and animals in zoos, there's a reason doctors don't prescribe antibiotics every time you get sick, it strengthens dependency and weakens immunity. Without a doubt dependency is perpetuated with the delivery of every government check.

Peeks, this is the exact type of entitlement argument i'm talking about. I like DU, but it's all bluster and no substance.

[Orenthal]

You should have "Craftsman" tattooed on your forehead, because you're a tool guaranteed for life.

I have a good example of progress. Ohio's unemployement system began making people who file claims online input the jobs (2) they have applied for; leaving them blank prevents you from filing the claim. In the past this wasn't even required, and the warning that they would check in to make sure was toothless. Along with the change was increased enforcement in the "work application audit". This has driven UEC rates down across the board.

So this could be translated to the food stamp program. I don't know the exact metric they could use, but instead of people promoting the program to increase enrollment they could utilize those employees for enforcement. Totally anecdotal but everyone I have ever met on food stamps was gaming the system. This is probably because those are the type that promote their "smerts" while those on it for legitimate reasons aren't so proud. Again, totally anecdotal.