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Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

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Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby 1Perry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:47 pm

The Cleveland Indians today announced the club acquired INF MIKE AVILES and CA/INF YAN GOMES from the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for RHP ESMIL ROGERS.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:03 pm

So the Blue Jays basically traded their manager for Esmil Rogers?

Nice get for a fungible reliever. Aviles has always hit lefties well and can play all over.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:04 pm

Good thing this guy's name is Yan, because that's what this trade makes me do.

In all seriousness, curious move here because I'm not sure what the thinking is behind it. Selling high on Rogers because they view last year as a fluke? (If that's the case, I wouldn't exactly call this selling high.) Bringing in a young righty bat? Maybe, but Gomes' numbers don't look that impressive, except last year at AAA Vegas, which also has the reputation of a hitters's haven. Precursor to an Asdrubal trade? Possibly, but I doubt it.

It's odd that our first move is to trade a bullpen arm NOT named Perez.
Last edited by Adverb Harry on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:05 pm

For the record...not at all suggesting it's a bad trade. Just odd.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:07 pm

Sold high on Esmil.

Aviles put up a .753 OPS against LHP, so I'm assuming he's our new super utility guy and will bat against lefties.

Gomes is intriguing. Played everywhere (C, 1B, 3B, LF, DH). Mashed in the minors (79 games, .938 OPS, 13 HR's, even though it was in the PCL) and had a cup of coffee w/ the BJays last year (only 98 ABs).

However, this says to me we could be hanging onto Perez.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:09 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Good thing this guy's name is Yan, because that's what this trade makes me do.

In all seriousness, curious move here because I'm not sure what the thinking is behind it. Selling high on Rogers because they view last year as a fluke? (If that's the case, I wouldn't exactly call this selling high.) Bringing in a young righty bat? Maybe, but Gomes' numbers don't look that impressive, except last year at AAA Vegas, which also has the reputation of a hitters's haven. Precursor to an Asdrubal trade? Possibly, but I doubt it.

It's odd that our first move is to trade a bullpen arm NOT named Perez.


Posted at the same time you did. Agreed - curious move. Not down on it at all, as Gomes could be an intriguing player (98 ab's is a very small sample size)
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:15 pm

Interesting tidbit on Gomes I saw on a couple sites: apparently,he's the first Brazilian-born MLB player. Is that right? Kind of hard to believe.

Also, he's got a unique batting stance. So, we've got that going for us.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bDiIU2tTOUQ
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:18 pm

Damage wrote:
However, this says to me we could be hanging onto Perez.


That was one of my first thoughts, as well. Can't see too many bullpen arms going elsewhere this offseason, unless something's really up. And, let's face it, nothing ever is.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:
Damage wrote:
However, this says to me we could be hanging onto Perez.


That was one of my first thoughts, as well. Can't see too many bullpen arms going elsewhere this offseason, unless something's really up. And, let's face it, nothing ever is.


Hat on forwards says least year was a wake up call. Hat on backwards says shut the f**k up.

I will say that these are the types of moves/trades Shantonettiro excels at. Still wouldn't rule out a Perez trade, just doubt it will happen any time soon (provided we don't make a trade for one, which would be funny in a depressed clown type of way).
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:32 pm

Like the move. I like that Aviles is a career .295/.797 hitter against LHP. Like that he can spell Cabrera, who has clearly worn down the last couple of seasons.

Not totally sure what Rogers is. Most of his work came in low leverage situations. He struggled with RISP (.302 BAA). The league change and getting out of Colorado may have just been smoke and mirrors for him. He could go back to having a 4+ ERA next year.

Cody Allen's emergence also made this possible. I don't think this changes anything about Perez and the potential of trading him. We still have four very capable RHP, three if we do deal Perez.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:50 pm

My early, early gut reaction tells me it's a "we're in it for 2013" move. Felt that even before Bastian had a brief write up in which he said this:

"Two problems that plagued the Indians throughout this past season were offensive struggles against left-handed pitching and finding a reliable backup to All-Star shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera. Cleveland has attempted to tackle both issues with one early offseason move."

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121103&content_id=40162812&vkey=news_cle&c_id=cle

The article contains no quotes, so it's likely Bastian was writing from his own viewpoint with no front office input yet, but it's interesting to think they're attempting to fill these holes from last year's squad (particularly in regards to Asdrubal) if next season would just be about rebuilding. So, is this an early indicator that that isn't the direction we'll be going? If it is, it's a big mistake in my opinion.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Last edited by Adverb Harry on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:01 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Like the move. I like that Aviles is a career .295/.797 hitter against LHP. Like that he can spell Cabrera, who has clearly worn down the last couple of seasons.

Not totally sure what Rogers is. Most of his work came in low leverage situations. He struggled with RISP (.302 BAA). The league change and getting out of Colorado may have just been smoke and mirrors for him. He could go back to having a 4+ ERA next year.

Cody Allen's emergence also made this possible. I don't think this changes anything about Perez and the potential of trading him. We still have four very capable RHP, three if we do deal Perez.


May be a reactionary comment, but could this set up a trade involving Assdribble? Considering our depth in the minors at SS (I know, I know: they're all a few years away, but still) and his tendency to break down later, could be a good time to sell high on him. Or am I being dumb here?
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:07 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:My early, early gut reaction tells me it's a "we're in it for 2013" move. Felt that even before Bastian had a brief write up in which he said this:

"Two problems that plagued the Indians throughout this past season were offensive struggles against left-handed pitching and finding a reliable backup to All-Star shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera. Cleveland has attempted to tackle both issues with one early offseason move."

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121103&content_id=40162812&vkey=news_cle&c_id=cle

The article contains no quotes, so it's likely Bastian was writing from his own viewpoint with no front office input yet, but it's interesting to think they're attempting to fill these holes from last year's squad if next season would just be about rebuilding. So, is this an early indicator that that isn't the direction we'll be going? If it is, it's a big mistake in my opinion.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


I think (and I despise this phrase) it is what it is. Aviles solved 2 issues: a quality back up or spot starter on the infield and someone who can hit LHP. Not sure this is deviating away from their intended direction. I see it as supplementing any direction.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:16 pm

Damage wrote:
Adverb Harry wrote:My early, early gut reaction tells me it's a "we're in it for 2013" move. Felt that even before Bastian had a brief write up in which he said this:

"Two problems that plagued the Indians throughout this past season were offensive struggles against left-handed pitching and finding a reliable backup to All-Star shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera. Cleveland has attempted to tackle both issues with one early offseason move."

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121103&content_id=40162812&vkey=news_cle&c_id=cle

The article contains no quotes, so it's likely Bastian was writing from his own viewpoint with no front office input yet, but it's interesting to think they're attempting to fill these holes from last year's squad if next season would just be about rebuilding. So, is this an early indicator that that isn't the direction we'll be going? If it is, it's a big mistake in my opinion.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


I think (and I despise this phrase) it is what it is. Aviles solved 2 issues: a quality back up or spot starter on the infield and someone who can hit LHP. Not sure this is deviating away from their intended direction. I see it as supplementing any direction.


Well said, and good point. It does provide some flexibility on the roster for a lot of further possibilities.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby aclayman » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:36 pm

I have always liked Aviles. He was looking like a regular .300 hitter in KC before injuries hit, and he can play any infield spot (so he doesn't just spell Droobs, he can step in for Kipnis or Chiz against tough lefties, too). If Gomes amounts to anything, it's just bonus. Solid, smart move.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:37 pm

In Bastian's updated write up, Antonetti is quoted as saying that Aviles "plays the game the right way."

Oh boy, here we go again. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:40 pm

They made a move to finally solidify that tricky utility spot........which they really have had a hard time with since Carrol left. They got more than enough depth to make a move like this. Aviles is a quality bench player who still has a few years of control left. Good deal, and maybe they got another choo or cabrera in Yan, already being 25 not likely but you never know.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:12 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:In Bastian's updated write up, Antonetti is quoted as saying that Aviles "plays the game the right way."

Oh boy, here we go again. ;-) ;) :wink:


These guys just can't help it. Must feed the beast.

And as opposed to the fallacious way? That's right up there with Chris Grant's, "They're good human beings"
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Damage wrote:May be a reactionary comment, but could this set up a trade involving Assdribble? Considering our depth in the minors at SS (I know, I know: they're all a few years away, but still) and his tendency to break down later, could be a good time to sell high on him. Or am I being dumb here?


I think they'd be stupid not to listen to offers for Cabrera, but I don't think he's going anywhere. Everybody has seen the same things we've seen. He's a defender with marginal range, a guy who has a tendency for prolonged slumps, and a guy who doesn't walk a whole lot.

I think he's made better by comparison - the fact that we lack, as Lead Pipe would say, PLAYAS.

I like Cabrera, I think he brings a lot and he has embraced a leadership role here. That said, I think there are flaws that lower his value that we have no choice but to put up with.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:00 pm

I agree (as usual) with what Tripods has said so far. I like Aviles. He improves a position of need and we obviously need to improve against LHP. I would assume that they are not done with said improvement in that area,as it is glaring. Not that it wasn't last offseason.

I doubt it means anything one way or another about Droobs. I'm sure they are taking calls, if not actively shopping him. And they would be crazy not to make a move and sell high if they get a deal tht makes sense. And that doesnt necessarily mean tht they are if full-on rebuild mode either.

I don't think shipping Esmil has any bearing on what they do with Perez either. Can't see why it would. I hope they get rid of him because I think he is valuable , but replaceable, and he will never be more valuable.

Plus, if Perez is gone I can unfollow him and never again be subjected to his dumbass song of the day. Yesterday it was Easy Lover by Phil Colins. Douche.

Basically I'd be fine if they moved Esmil, Droobs, and Perez. Selling high on 3 guys makes sense to me.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Damage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:18 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I agree (as usual) with what Tripods has said so far. I like Aviles. He improves a position of need and we obviously need to improve against LHP. I would assume that they are not done with said improvement in that area,as it is glaring. Not that it wasn't last offseason.

I doubt it means anything one way or another about Droobs. I'm sure they are taking calls, if not actively shopping him. And they would be crazy not to make a move and sell high if they get a deal tht makes sense. And that doesnt necessarily mean tht they are if full-on rebuild mode either.

I don't think shipping Esmil has any bearing on what they do with Perez either. Can't see why it would. I hope they get rid of him because I think he is valuable , but replaceable, and he will never be more valuable.

Plus, if Perez is gone I can unfollow him and never again be subjected to his dumbass song of the day. Yesterday it was Easy Lover by Phil Colins. Douche.

Basically I'd be fine if they moved Esmil, Droobs, and Perez. Selling high on 3 guys makes sense to me.


Choo. Don't forget Choo, as he should be the #1 guy on the trading block. Or as someone put it, "I'd trade the shit out of him".
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:32 pm

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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby pup » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Versatility and platoons.

No way.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:58 am

FWIW Aviles can also fill in in the outfield if the need arises. From what I heard on the sports segments up here apparently Tito had thought highly of Aviles when Francona was managing here. If anyone knows how to get production out of Aviles it should be him.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:38 am

Does this also spell the end of the Lou Marson era? Not sure what to think of Yan Gomes. Lazy behind the plate but with a good bat? Avg. .204 with 4 HR's. Say your bye byes to Lou. Wait and see I guess.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby statmasta » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:41 am

RedDawg53 wrote:Does this also spell the end of the Lou Marson era? Not sure what to think of Yan Gomes. Lazy behind the plate but with a good bat? Avg. .204 with 4 HR's. Say your bye byes to Lou. Wait and see I guess.

I'm assuming we got Yan Gomes to be a first baseman, not a catcher.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:17 am

Marson might be more valuable today than Santana. At least he can do one thing well.

He's going nowhere. And he'll be a Matheny in 10 years as well, running someone's team as a manager.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:33 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Plus, if Perez is gone I can unfollow him and never again be subjected to his dumbass song of the day. Yesterday it was Easy Lover by Phil Colins. Douche.


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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:46 am

statmasta wrote:
RedDawg53 wrote:Does this also spell the end of the Lou Marson era? Not sure what to think of Yan Gomes. Lazy behind the plate but with a good bat? Avg. .204 with 4 HR's. Say your bye byes to Lou. Wait and see I guess.

I'm assuming we got Yan Gomes to be a first baseman, not a catcher.


Thought Yan was a catcher... perhaps I was wrong
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:48 am

peeker643 wrote:Marson might be more valuable today than Santana. At least he can do one thing well.

He's going nowhere. And he'll be a Matheny in 10 years as well, running someone's team as a manager.


I'm calling it now. Lou Marson is the next Eric Wedge for the Tribe in the next 10-15 years
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby statmasta » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:52 pm

RedDawg53 wrote:
statmasta wrote:
RedDawg53 wrote:Does this also spell the end of the Lou Marson era? Not sure what to think of Yan Gomes. Lazy behind the plate but with a good bat? Avg. .204 with 4 HR's. Say your bye byes to Lou. Wait and see I guess.

I'm assuming we got Yan Gomes to be a first baseman, not a catcher.


Thought Yan was a catcher... perhaps I was wrong

He is, but he played more first base (20 games) than catcher (9 games) for Toronto last year. And considering we already have a catcher and we don't have a first baseman.....

everything seems to point to him being a first baseman for us.
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Re: Esmil Rogers traded per Underwood

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:12 am

Adverb Harry wrote:In Bastian's updated write up, Antonetti is quoted as saying that Aviles "plays the game the right way."

Oh boy, here we go again. ;-) ;) :wink:

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