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Turning over the front office

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Turning over the front office

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:27 am

Here's my take on the ordeal.

The three reasons front office turnover makes Cleveland fans uncomfortable:

1. The inevitable jettisoning of players deemed "unecessary"
2. The changing of schemes with new coordinators/philosophy
3. The probability of bringing in a new GM to replace Heckert, who has done a good job

My take on those three issues:

1. With a roster as young as ours is, there isn't going to be too much fluff that we would miss. Blue chip prospects such as Phil Taylor, Haden, Richardson, Gordon, etc that have proven serviceable would be kept around; if (Banner) bringing in his guys, who deem the fringe players such as Skrine/Norwood/Luavao as replaceable affects the bottom line, then we're putting too much faith in shit players anyway.

2. Bringing in a Philly front office guy doesn't necessarily mean a scheme change, since they are coming from a similarly minded team....but if it does, who gives a shit? We've been roundly critical of playcalling on offense for 10 years (with the exception of 2007) and the same with the defense, sans Rob Ryan. (Which was still one of the worst units in the league)

3. Lead, Swerb, and Peeks have (rightly) been critical of the players that we've swung and missed on when talking about Heckert's run, and they have a point. For every Joe Haden the team has, there's a Hardesty and a Marecic. He's been tremendous at finding late round competence, but we're still working with a roster bereft of elite talent.

In the end, change is polarizing, and this move has the potential to rock the boat....but in the end, I think having a combination of young players that have some upside and are growing into a cohesive unit combined with an owner that actually cares and has roots in successfully run organizations is going to be good for the team. The most important thing that I see going forward is that the team continues to build through the draft, which requires patience, and that they pick the right QB/HC combination. Without both, the team is going to struggle no matter what else is being done right.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:44 am

Every GM has a Marecic. It's impossible to hit on them all.

A good GM has more Winn's than Marecic's. Heckert is probably somewhere around 50-50. That viewpoint might change by the end of the season.

I don't necessarily think Heckert is outta here anyway. He and Banner weren't reportedly best friends, but Banner comes across as the type of guy that doesn't like anyone. He at least is familiar with Heckert, and if Heckert's picks continue to evolve, it would get harder for him to shitcan Tom.

But it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Totally fine with canning Paddy.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:45 am

Holmgren is out, per ESPN. Haslam does not waste time.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:49 am

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Holmgren is out, per ESPN. Haslam does not waste time.


Shocking. No one could've seen THAT coming.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:56 am

As long as Banner sticks to the business/contract/cap side of the org I am cautiously ambivilent.

But if the guy wanders over toward the pro player personnel side then this might make us all long for the days of Pete Garcia.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:02 pm

mattvan1 wrote:As long as Banner sticks to the business/contract/cap side of the org I am cautiously ambivilent.

But if the guy wanders over toward the pro player personnel side then this might make us all long for the days of Pete Garcia.


Agree on this. Banner no touchy the player decisions.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:30 pm

Apparently its an end-of-the-year thing, that they'll let Holmgren play out the string this year before retiring. Makes sense fiscally (they're already paying him) and for the team.

Nevermind, it appears Banner is taking the reigns immediately. Mike will just be around to facilitate a smooth turnover....if they're going to can Heckert, I hope they do it immediately so that the replacement can get ready for the draft next year.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:53 pm

At least Mike can hit up Brasa a few more times before he leaves town.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:00 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
Nevermind, it appears Banner is taking the reigns immediately. Mike will just be around to facilitate a smooth turnover....


There is nothing smooth about Joe Banner.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:11 pm

FUDU wrote:At least Mike can hit up Brasa a few more times before he leaves town.



Doesn't Mike have to at least BE in town?
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:59 pm

It's strange - everyone's really excited about Haslam's arrival, and I'm prepping myself to dump the team.

But since I was excited about a lot of the people that failed, maybe that's a good thing.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby andrew6586 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:03 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:
FUDU wrote:At least Mike can hit up Brasa a few more times before he leaves town.



Doesn't Mike have to at least BE in town?

That's what I said. Today in the presser, Haslam said that they will work together over the next few months and that Holmgren won't always be in town like he is now. Looks like Haslam is super polite.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:05 pm

I'm actually pretty surprised about how polarizing the change has been; i've seen an equal amount of folks either celebrating or throwing an all-out tantrum.

Lot of it seems to hang on whether they think Holmgren had the team going in the right direction (feh) or whether Haslam will be "too involved" a la Snyder/Jones.

I'll be waiting with bated breath for this off season.....if he blows it up completely, I may be one of the jumpers.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:55 pm

I don't know if they're headed in the right direction or not yet. Maybe we'll know better by the end of the season.

Just the feel of another (what is apparently inevitable) blow-up is getting old.

If this guy is in it for... probably the rest of my life... I'll let his actions help me decide whether or not I feel like buying in.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby justmebd » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:43 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I don't know if they're headed in the right direction or not yet. Maybe we'll know better by the end of the season.

Just the feel of another (what is apparently inevitable) blow-up is getting old.

If this guy is in it for... probably the rest of my life... I'll let his actions help me decide whether or not I feel like buying in.

Recent Browns Owners:

Art Modell: The WORST owner in the history of the league, despite what the revisionists are spouting lately.

Al Lerner: Average owner at best, but admittedly didn't have a lot to work with before he died.

Randy Lerner: Second worst owner in the history of the league. The only things separating him from Modell are 1) He didn't move the team and 2) He didn't go bankrupt.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure things are looking up.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby swerb » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:55 pm

It can't be any worse. Even under a worst case scenario, Haslam is a huge upgrade over Lerner.

And Holmgren. What a disaster this guy was. I remember being so excited when we landed The Walrus. This fat piece of shit did absolutely nothing in his three years here. Heckert hit on a few picks. Missed on a couple others. That arrogant SOB Holmgren treated the decision on the coach like a political appointment, bringing in the idiot nephew of one of his former coachers ... WITHOUT EVEN INTERVIEWING ANYONE ELSE (Rooney candidate, some token loser).

Epic. Fail.

And he followed that up by showing up at the office at 10 AM every morning so he could cruise around on his golf cart and smoke cigarettes and drink bloody marys. While his puppet coach forced some bastardized version of his shitty offense on us.

Arrogant asshole couldn't even stand in front of the media once a month to let us know what he was working on or what was happening with the cities football team. And acted like he was nauseated by it when he did.

At least he doesn't have to worry about people "groveling to him for playoff tickets" anymore.

Thank God this know nothing bum is finally gone. Not sure why anyone thought this guy could run an organization. Seattle gave him full control and he ruined it there.

Hope XO and Mortons can recover the lost income.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:07 pm

^^^word to your mother
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:25 pm

swerb wrote:It can't be any worse. Even under a worst case scenario, Haslam is a huge upgrade over Lerner.


Sounds like what everyone said when they finally benched DA for Quinn.

Which is certainly not any kind of support for Lerner, who was unbelievably clueless. Just that I ain't gettin excited about ANYONE anymore until they show they deserve it.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby municipalmutt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Do we know for sure that Banner will be in the front office? I heard some rumblings that he might only be offered minority ownership.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:37 pm

municipalmutt wrote:Do we know for sure that Banner will be in the front office? I heard some rumblings that he might only be offered minority ownership.


No ownership, yes CEO/President. From the Poobah's mouth.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby googleeph2 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:44 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
swerb wrote:It can't be any worse. Even under a worst case scenario, Haslam is a huge upgrade over Lerner.


Sounds like what everyone said when they finally benched DA for Quinn.

Which is certainly not any kind of support for Lerner, who was unbelievably clueless. Just that I ain't gettin excited about ANYONE anymore until they show they deserve it.


This is where I have been on this. All the good vibes come from him not being Lerner.
When he starts making decisions, he might satisfy some fans but I suspect lots of fans will disagree on what would make him acceptable. Even if they haven't thought that far yet. Shoot, some already think Shurmur should be retained.

If they don't start winning soon, turnover or no turnover, the impatience lurking near the surface won't be bashful.

I honestly hope I am wrong, or that winning makes this moot.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:59 pm

According to the PD - Heckert is on the ropes. I'm all for doing what you want with your new team (sans changing the helmet), but I hope they look twice at this guy. He's done a pretty capable job of finding talent, especially in the lower rounds. With a good coach, this team could and will go places.

Just please don't let us see a switch out of the 4-3...I, we, everyone, cannot deal with another 5 year rebuild. Get rid of SHUR, keep the GM, and hire a new guy who'll run the 4-3 and who'll maybe consider the WCO. Otherwise...fuck this shit.

So I guess I'm calling for 1/2 a reboot. A reboo.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby googleeph2 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:06 pm

If a team can win with Weeden (or whomever the QB is deemed to be), it needs to play to his strengths. If the WCO fits into that picture, so be it. But if another way to win is what Weeden can be most successful with, do a bunch of that instead.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:50 pm

If it is a TOTAL rebuild, and I believe it will be, let's remember, the 45 previous rebuilds aren't the new regime's fault.

Frankly, with a new head coach, and front office, what are the odds that many of their thoughts are going to mesh with this regimes 1985 thinking. And if they mesh, well, they are in deep shit anyway.

I'd be more than happy if someone came in here and said, "What the fuck with the 29 year old immobile rookie and the Christmas gift to the Vikings for a fucking running back?" What game are we tryin' to play here?

Keep the guys worth a damn, and start over. I don't like it, but I don't see a rise without it.

Holmgren fleeced Lerner. Period. If you've got a vested owner you got a chance. Without a vested owner you have none. Clearly.

Maybe Haslam will F this up. Maybe he won't. This is still light years ahead of "I don't care."
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:08 pm

leadpipe wrote:If it is a TOTAL rebuild, and I believe it will be, let's remember, the 45 previous rebuilds aren't the new regime's fault.

Frankly, with a new head coach, and front office, what are the odds that many of their thoughts are going to mesh with this regimes 1985 thinking. And if they mesh, well, they are in deep shit anyway.

I'd be more than happy if someone came in here and said, "What the fuck with the 29 year old immobile rookie and the Christmas gift to the Vikings for a fucking running back?" What game are we tryin' to play here?

Keep the guys worth a damn, and start over. I don't like it, but I don't see a rise without it.

Holmgren fleeced Lerner. Period. If you've got a vested owner you got a chance. Without a vested owner you have none. Clearly.

Maybe Haslam will F this up. Maybe he won't. This is still light years ahead of "I don't care."


Can the GM, the coach, and the rookie first rounders.

Sounds awesome.

I AM too tired of this to care.

If I looked at this team and said "What we need is a new coach, and new GM, and to draft another QB in the 1st round. We need to tear this all down and start again", then maybe I'd have enough patience to take Wife #6. But as of right now, I think that's restarting for restarting's sake, and maybe I just don't have the energy to get married again.

We'll see what decisions they make. But I'm not putting faith into anyone anymore until they've earned it here in Cleveland.

If that ain't fair to Jimmy Boy, tough shit.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:22 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:If it is a TOTAL rebuild, and I believe it will be, let's remember, the 45 previous rebuilds aren't the new regime's fault.

Frankly, with a new head coach, and front office, what are the odds that many of their thoughts are going to mesh with this regimes 1985 thinking. And if they mesh, well, they are in deep shit anyway.

I'd be more than happy if someone came in here and said, "What the fuck with the 29 year old immobile rookie and the Christmas gift to the Vikings for a fucking running back?" What game are we tryin' to play here?

Keep the guys worth a damn, and start over. I don't like it, but I don't see a rise without it.

Holmgren fleeced Lerner. Period. If you've got a vested owner you got a chance. Without a vested owner you have none. Clearly.

Maybe Haslam will F this up. Maybe he won't. This is still light years ahead of "I don't care."


Can the GM, the coach, and the rookie first rounders.

Sounds awesome.

I AM too tired of this to care.

Wake me up when they're in the playoffs sometime around 2020.


What the hell do you think is gonna happen?

First two are already circling the drain.

The alternative is keeping this train rolling and hitting the playoffs sometime around never.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:28 pm

leadpipe wrote:What the hell do you think is gonna happen?

First two are already circling the drain.

The alternative is keeping this train rolling and hitting the playoffs sometime around never.


As if I can trust that Haslam won't keep flushing and flushing like Jammies did.

We'll see. But if someone comes in here and judges that they need to completely reboot the whole damn thing - not just talking Shurmy and Heckert - then I have no more faith in him than I did in Randy.

We get a more visible, more personable dumbass.

EDIT - And this one will want to be "involved".
Last edited by Hikohadon on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:35 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:What the hell do you think is gonna happen?

First two are already circling the drain.

The alternative is keeping this train rolling and hitting the playoffs sometime around never.


As if I can trust that Haslam won't keep flushing and flushing like Jammies did.

We'll see. But if someone comes in here and judges that they need to completely reboot the whole damn thing - not just talking Shurmy and Heckert - then I have no more faith in him than I did in Randy.

We get a more visible, more personable dumbass.


Jammies did nothing - aside from fall for the first person to walk thru the door, cause he had no interest or time for any process.

That's the whole point. No matter what Haslam does, total reboot. Partway reboot.....at least it will be SOMETHING. And again, you're left with two outcomes, he'll either be right. Or he'll be wrong. One of those is very much better than "I don't care" and the other is no worse.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:41 pm

leadpipe wrote:Jammies did nothing - aside from fall for the first person to walk thru the door, cause he had no interest or time for any process.

That's the whole point. No matter what Haslam does, total reboot. Partway reboot.....at least it will be SOMETHING. And again, you're left with two outcomes, he'll either be right. Or he'll be wrong. One of those is very much better than "I don't care" and the other is no worse.


I actually disagree with that wholeheartedly because a dumbass owner that doesn't care might blind squirrel/nut himself into hiring someone that is competent, since he won't do anything himself.

A dumbass owner that cares - that insists on being involved and making big decisions - well, there's no cure for that.

We better hope Haslam is good because if he's the owner equivalent of - say - Phil Savage, there ain't nobody gonna fire his ass after 4 years of failure.

There's a reason that the Cowboys will never again do shit under Jerry Jones, and it ain't Jason Garrett.

Nothing more destructive than a stupid owner who "cares".
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:19 am

"Football reports to Joe" is a sentence that makes me really really nervous.

EOD, I'm with Hiko. Too tired to care one way or the other. I have a friend of Russian descent; the guy is full of great sayings, all deeply rooted in the inherent despair of his culture. There are two that come to mind in the Browns current situation.

Once we were in the middle of some type of effed up project; things were going to shit all around. I looked at him and complained "What else could possibly go wrong?" His deadpanned reply - "Don't worry, many things."

But my favorite, which should be the rallying cry for all Browns fans, is allegedly taken from WWII and the siege of Stalingrad.

"they fuck us, but we grow stronger"
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:41 am

To lighten the mood here, I had this image yesterday of what is going on in Berea right now, and I pictured the last two months since Haslem entered the Picture.

I see . .. The Bobs.

I see . . . Holmgren sitting in front of The Bobs saying, "I have people skills, Damnit!!"

I wonder if Heckert is wishing The Bobs well while SHUR fidgets about his stapler while Banner moves him into the basement.

"No, no, no, We FIXED the error, so the situation resolved itself. He no longer gets a paycheck."
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:47 am

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Jammies did nothing - aside from fall for the first person to walk thru the door, cause he had no interest or time for any process.

That's the whole point. No matter what Haslam does, total reboot. Partway reboot.....at least it will be SOMETHING. And again, you're left with two outcomes, he'll either be right. Or he'll be wrong. One of those is very much better than "I don't care" and the other is no worse.


I actually disagree with that wholeheartedly because a dumbass owner that doesn't care might blind squirrel/nut himself into hiring someone that is competent, since he won't do anything himself.

A dumbass owner that cares - that insists on being involved and making big decisions - well, there's no cure for that.

We better hope Haslam is good because if he's the owner equivalent of - say - Phil Savage, there ain't nobody gonna fire his ass after 4 years of failure.

There's a reason that the Cowboys will never again do shit under Jerry Jones, and it ain't Jason Garrett.

Nothing more destructive than a stupid owner who "cares".


Jerry Jones, if you took away the SB's he stumbles upon, still won as much as Randy Lerner.

Nothing more destructive than a stupid owner that cares? All a matter of degree in how you like your losses.

My point is the chance that he isn't stupid exists. With a guy that couldn't give a shit, it doesn't.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:03 am

mattvan1 wrote:"Football reports to Joe" is a sentence that makes me really really nervous.

EOD, I'm with Hiko. Too tired to care one way or the other. I have a friend of Russian descent; the guy is full of great sayings, all deeply rooted in the inherent despair of his culture. There are two that come to mind in the Browns current situation.

Once we were in the middle of some type of effed up project; things were going to shit all around. I looked at him and complained "What else could possibly go wrong?" His deadpanned reply - "Don't worry, many things."

But my favorite, which should be the rallying cry for all Browns fans, is allegedly taken from WWII and the siege of Stalingrad.

"they fuck us, but we grow stronger"


You should enjoy this:

http://boards.philadelphiaeagles.com/topic/538963-the-official-joe-banner-photochop-thread/
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:08 am

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Jammies did nothing - aside from fall for the first person to walk thru the door, cause he had no interest or time for any process.

That's the whole point. No matter what Haslam does, total reboot. Partway reboot.....at least it will be SOMETHING. And again, you're left with two outcomes, he'll either be right. Or he'll be wrong. One of those is very much better than "I don't care" and the other is no worse.


I actually disagree with that wholeheartedly because a dumbass owner that doesn't care might blind squirrel/nut himself into hiring someone that is competent, since he won't do anything himself.

A dumbass owner that cares - that insists on being involved and making big decisions - well, there's no cure for that.

We better hope Haslam is good because if he's the owner equivalent of - say - Phil Savage, there ain't nobody gonna fire his ass after 4 years of failure.

There's a reason that the Cowboys will never again do shit under Jerry Jones, and it ain't Jason Garrett.

Nothing more destructive than a stupid owner who "cares".


Jerry Jones, if you took away the SB's he stumbles upon, still won as much as Randy Lerner.

Nothing more destructive than a stupid owner that cares? All a matter of degree in how you like your losses.

My point is the chance that he isn't stupid exists. With a guy that couldn't give a shit, it doesn't.


Disagree again. If Holmgren hadn't been such a disaster, then they could've won with an owner that didn't care.

He obviously cared enough to clean house every 3 or 4 years when each successive regime failed. Who cleans house if Haslam fails?

Your whole point is that it couldn't get any worse, which is true. Except in the concept that if it's just as bad this time, there is NO hope because there is NO possible end.

Again, this is in no way a measure of support for Randy, simply pointing out the inherent disaster that could be a stupid, meddlesome owner. Let's hope Jimmy Boy isn't that.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby scott » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:53 am

Mostly with Hiko on this one.

Feel like I should be ecstatic that the guy who never wanted to own the team is out. It is probably a good thing. I just don't feel like I have the energy to sit through another 5 year plan.

Of course I will. What's the alternative?
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:04 am

scott wrote:Mostly with Hiko on this one.

Feel like I should be ecstatic that the guy who never wanted to own the team is out. It is probably a good thing. I just don't feel like I have the energy to sit through another 5 year plan.

Of course I will. What's the alternative?


I'm sure I will too.

Just not looking forward to it and certainly not excited about it.

Wooooooo! Jimmy Haslam! Wooooooo...

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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:05 am

According to wiki, Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story.

And I am afraid the following foreshadows impending doom

Asked if Banner would be involved with football decisions, Haslam said "it depends on how deep you go. But, yeah, Joe's the CEO of the organization, and generally that means you're going to be involved in all phases of the organization."
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:54 am

mattvan1 wrote:According to wiki, Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story.

And I am afraid the following foreshadows impending doom

Asked if Banner would be involved with football decisions, Haslam said "it depends on how deep you go. But, yeah, Joe's the CEO of the organization, and generally that means you're going to be involved in all phases of the organization."


Like the CEO of Progressive is involved in Commercial Claims? I mean, I suppose it's all relative, but Progressive's CEO is Progressive's CEO and his reach into claims is hiring the very best Claims people to run his operation. So yeah, he's involved in the Claims operation, but he's not sitting next to me looking at the latest settlement demand.

I would assume, the Browns having just sold for >$1billion, that this is a business. And the CEO should be involved in all phases of the organization. But that doesn't mean he orders the soap in the shower, calls plays or necessarily hires and fires coaches and others. But he should have input on how all of that will affect the business, no?
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:20 pm

I wonder who does order the soap on the shower, and if we have the best soap in the shower ordering person in the business? It's all about hiring the best people right...
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:23 pm

Banner will likely be involved in the hiring and firing of the Coach/GM, and provide the experience necessary to do that.

The Philly experience taught him 3 things, you can be sure of that:

1. When you give a mouse a cookie, it wants milk....
2. Having balances/checks in power keeps people honest.
3. Building a sustainable product, through the draft, means you can let go of a diva who wants top dollar and still reload a 10 win team every season, provided you have a QB.

I hope he keeps Heckert in house, because honestly, I can see a scenario where the guy is capable of loading a roster up, without anyone meddling in what QB they have to take each year. (i'm attributing both QB's selected to Holmgren, who has alluded to both)

If Shurmur shows the ability to win some games this year, I could give a shit if they retain him. If not, no worries and good riddance.

Either way, you're going to have a consolidated vision from top to bottom, going forward. Was the best part of the Holmgren regime, and I will be happy to have it in the Banner regime. Guy is a proven winner, should know what it takes.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:According to wiki, Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story.

And I am afraid the following foreshadows impending doom

Asked if Banner would be involved with football decisions, Haslam said "it depends on how deep you go. But, yeah, Joe's the CEO of the organization, and generally that means you're going to be involved in all phases of the organization."


Like the CEO of Progressive is involved in Commercial Claims? I mean, I suppose it's all relative, but Progressive's CEO is Progressive's CEO and his reach into claims is hiring the very best Claims people to run his operation. So yeah, he's involved in the Claims operation, but he's not sitting next to me looking at the latest settlement demand.

I would assume, the Browns having just sold for >$1billion, that this is a business. And the CEO should be involved in all phases of the organization. But that doesn't mean he orders the soap in the shower, calls plays or necessarily hires and fires coaches and others. But he should have input on how all of that will affect the business, no?


Well, the guy is a Kiwi as well as a UF Gator, so already I don't like him ;-) ;) :wink: but at least he has the chops to be involved in all aspects of Progressive

Glenn is president and chief executive officer of Progressive. He joined the company in 1986 and has held numerous roles at Progressive, from product manager to business technology leader. His primary responsibilities as president and CEO are to establish and uphold Progressive's Vision, Core Values, financial objectives and strategies and to assist corporate leaders in strategic planning and communication. Glenn has an undergraduate degree in mathematics and economics from the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand, and a master's degree in engineering from the University of Florida.

The only football ops experience Joe Banner has is he pushed some kid down the stairs for taking his toy when he was 5 years old or something. I mean who knows - Holmgren was a football guy who "got involved" and we ended up with Colt and Ginger Weeds, so maybe Banner will have the Midas touch.

And you are certainly right in that it's a matter of degrees - if the guy sets the tone and establishes the structure and vision and all the blah blah blah stuff and leaves the actual player personnel decisions to guys who know their shit, then I'm fine with it.

But I've seen this movie before; it rarely ends well.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby DeanSheen » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:00 pm

I have a friend of Russian descent; the guy is full of great sayings, all deeply rooted in the inherent despair of his culture. There are two that come to mind in the Browns current situation.

Once we were in the middle of some type of effed up project; things were going to shit all around. I looked at him and complained "What else could possibly go wrong?" His deadpanned reply - "Don't worry, many things."

But my favorite, which should be the rallying cry for all Browns fans, is allegedly taken from WWII and the siege of Stalingrad.

"they fuck us, but we grow stronger"


Thank you for making me cry at work. That was great.

I'm more worried about Banner than anything.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:28 pm

The equipment manager or assistant equipment manager order the shampoo Donny. No idea how good either of them are.

And Matt, Banner allegedly has the chops to run a football franchise too, judging by what I'm reading. I don't know how it will all work out, but I'm saying that being the CEO of any big organization would seemingly require you to effectively delegate and hire experienced people. Yep, we've seen this go wrong many times here. But that doesn't mean there aren't folks out there with the knowledge and ability to actually do it right.

If we got that we're better off than we were yesterday. If not, well, not sure how much worse than 1-5 and headed to 2-3 wins it can get. If Banner and Haslam are working out UDFAs and sitting in on film sessions we're as fucked today as we were yesterday.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:43 pm

peeker643 wrote:The equipment manager or assistant equipment manager order the shampoo Donny. No idea how good either of them are.

And Matt, Banner allegedly has the chops to run a football franchise too, judging by what I'm reading. I don't know how it will all work out, but I'm saying that being the CEO of any big organization would seemingly require you to effectively delegate and hire experienced people. Yep, we've seen this go wrong many times here. But that doesn't mean there aren't folks out there with the knowledge and ability to actually do it right.

If we got that we're better off than we were yesterday. If not, well, not sure how much worse than 1-5 and headed to 2-3 wins it can get. If Banner and Haslam are working out UDFAs and sitting in on film sessions we're as fucked today as we were yesterday.


Agree with this.

So I'm going to assume that we're just as fucked today as we were yesterday and then wait for Haslam and Banner to prove me wrong. THEN I'll get excited.

Maybe I just want to be more proactive with my disdain this time so I can be more in lockstep with you people. Hate 'em BEFORE they have a chance to do anything so that I can say "I told you so" later. :cheers:
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:53 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:The equipment manager or assistant equipment manager order the shampoo Donny. No idea how good either of them are.

And Matt, Banner allegedly has the chops to run a football franchise too, judging by what I'm reading. I don't know how it will all work out, but I'm saying that being the CEO of any big organization would seemingly require you to effectively delegate and hire experienced people. Yep, we've seen this go wrong many times here. But that doesn't mean there aren't folks out there with the knowledge and ability to actually do it right.

If we got that we're better off than we were yesterday. If not, well, not sure how much worse than 1-5 and headed to 2-3 wins it can get. If Banner and Haslam are working out UDFAs and sitting in on film sessions we're as fucked today as we were yesterday.


Agree with this.

So I'm going to assume that we're just as fucked today as we were yesterday and then wait for Haslam and Banner to prove me wrong. THEN I'll get excited.

Maybe I just want to be more proactive with my disdain this time so I can be more in lockstep with you people. Hate 'em BEFORE they have a chance to do anything so that I can say "I told you so" later. :cheers:


LOL. I am having a distinct sense of déjà vu.

And BTW, not once have I ever written "I told you so" regarding SHUR.

But baby Jesus in a manger I often lie awake at night thinking about it. :group:
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:02 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:So I'm going to assume that we're just as fucked today as we were yesterday and then wait for Haslam and Banner to prove me wrong. THEN I'll get excited.

Maybe I just want to be more proactive with my disdain this time so I can be more in lockstep with you people. Hate 'em BEFORE they have a chance to do anything so that I can say "I told you so" later. :cheers:


LOL. I am having a distinct sense of déjà vu.

And BTW, not once have I ever written "I told you so" regarding SHUR.

But baby Jesus in a manger I often lie awake at night thinking about it. :group:


In and of itself, my attitude on this isn't a dig. I'm just too tired of the merry-go-round of reboot to get excited about anyone anymore. I'm crossing to the dark side - assume they'll suck, because they probably will.

Maybe soon I'll fall totally into despair and begin to actively root against them, like E0.

But I will give Banslam the benefit of the doubt since that's only fair. Go ahead, gentlemen - dazzle me.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:27 pm

Some thoughts to ponder.

The biggest difference between the upcoming reboot and the last several come down to ownership: Randy Lerner no longer is making any decisions of any kind.

This is a good thing. I got tired of hearing what a "nice guy" he is when that didn't mean shit to winning or losing games.

Bottom line is Lerner kept hitting the reset button in the desperate hope that, sooner or later, he'd be able to get past the Gorgon on Level Two in Castlevania.

Lerner's FO choices:
Savage/Crennel: Two men going in two different directions, none of them forward. Crennel proved why he had been a career assistant.

Eric Mangini: Fancied constantly shooting himself in the foot while imagining himself as the "next Bill Belichick" was the way to win games. Passed off his failures as "part of the process."

Holmgren/Heckert/SHUR: Holmgren had no idea what his job actually was, somehow made things worse. Made most of his hires based on Bob Lamonte's recommendations, because your agent always has your best interests in mind. I like Heckert. SHUR has spent way too much time looking clueless for me to feel he'll ever "grow" into his role as a head coach. I feel the same way about SHUR as I did about Brian Daboll -- Cut your losses and move on fer christ sake!!

Now that Haslem is here, and he's already spent more time with the team and the fans in two months than Lerner did in 10 years, I feel this time could be different. Cautiously optimistic is where I'm at.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:37 pm

justmebd wrote:Some thoughts to ponder.

The biggest difference between the upcoming reboot and the last several come down to ownership: Randy Lerner no longer is making any decisions of any kind.

This is a good thing. I got tired of hearing what a "nice guy" he is when that didn't mean shit to winning or losing games.

Bottom line is Lerner kept hitting the reset button in the desperate hope that, sooner or later, he'd be able to get past the Gorgon on Level Two in Castlevania.

Lerner's FO choices:
Savage/Crennel: Two men going in two different directions, none of them forward. Crennel proved why he had been a career assistant.

Eric Mangini: Fancied constantly shooting himself in the foot while imagining himself as the "next Bill Belichick" was the way to win games. Passed off his failures as "part of the process."

Holmgren/Heckert/SHUR: Holmgren had no idea what his job actually was, somehow made things worse. Made most of his hires based on Bob Lamonte's recommendations, because your agent always has your best interests in mind. I like Heckert. SHUR has spent way too much time looking clueless for me to feel he'll ever "grow" into his role as a head coach. I feel the same way about SHUR as I did about Brian Daboll -- Cut your losses and move on fer christ sake!!

Now that Haslem is here, and he's already spent more time with the team and the fans in two months than Lerner did in 10 years, I feel this time could be different. Cautiously optimistic is where I'm at.


Pointing out Lerner's multiple failures doesn't make my faith in Banslam any stronger.

Again with the DA comparison - he sucked and it would be hard to do worse than him with a replacement.

And as far as said replacement, I hope Banslam is Tom Brady, but I'll assume he's Brady Quinn until I see results.

We should get a ton of feedback on that at season end.
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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:56 pm

So I'm going to assume that we're just as fucked today as we were yesterday and then wait for Haslam and Banner to prove me wrong


There ya go!

Lower your expectations another level or two

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Re: Turning over the front office

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:33 am

" to feel he'll ever "grow" into his role as a head coach. I feel the same way about SHUR as I did about Brian Daboll -- Cut your losses and move on fer christ sake!!"

Back to Back good offensive showings (Giants game is a blowout if Haden plays/Weeden makes better/nonrookie throws) I can't say I ever saw that with Daboll. I'm not SHUR he has what it takes either, but he's definitely better than Daboll.
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