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OSU - Indiana

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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby furls » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:55 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Is there anything that can be done? Help on the horizon? We have Braxton for one more year. He can absolutely win a NC. It'd be a shame to fall short because you couldn't find a halfway decent MLB.


We have Brax for 2 more years. I don't think he is an early entry candidate. He could be as a tailback.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:00 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Pray the Freshies (or Grant) grow up in the off-season.

That's it, really. Either that or start a true-freshman. Ironically the Sabino loss is especially huge (since, you know, he was playing at a normal level, max) and he's a senior so....

PS: we have Brax for two more years


Yep...play the kids and hope you not only find one or two who are impactful or who can be next fall with the time and attention they get now. They get no bowl practices. NOW is the time to find these kids because this year just doesn't matter, regardless of how prideful a Buckeye fan you may be. This is a dress rehearsal and you don't get it back.

Withers is the guy who will run and call that defense once Fickell is gone. And that's gonna happen IMO. Not to mention Fickell is the LB Coach specifically.


Miller is a 4-yar guy unless his mechanics improve a huge amount between this season and next September. Not impossible because he's capable, but if all he can do is run without being a gifted passer then tell me what he is at the next level? He's a flanker/KR like Denard Robinson unless he can throw the ball well.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:23 am

Withers, the guy whose soft zones and safety play (the things he distinctly brought to the defense) are getting murdered by three step drop teams as well? He's not exactly lighting anything on fire.

And people need to remember, Meyer was hired late so only one of the Freshman LB's made it in last spring. That's a huge deal when you are going to need to fill your depth chart with freshman.

BTW: Fickel's resume re: LBs is beyond good, I'm not going to question his coaching. As Meyer said, when in a three year span injuries or attrition run 7 of 10 LBs out of your program you are in trouble.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:17 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:He's been co-defensive co-ordinator for five years and by all accounts is calling the D right now.

Heacock, one of the most proven DCs of the last ten years period, struggled mightily with this shitty talent last year as well.

If you want to argue that the 4-2-5 is a piece of shit, be my guest, but I have no seen nearly enough from him to call him a figure head at all. And the 4-2-5 did beat Oregon and Arky in the not to distant past.


That is a good point. That D, when it had enough of the right players, held plenty of good offenses in check just fine, and IIRC that approach on D yielded on the fewest big plays in the country for like 4-5 straight, no?
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:51 pm

What do the last 4-5 years have to do with the system change that's currently and obviously going on under Meyer?

Like this ain't your daddy's offense, he's also changing the defense and it will ultimately be filled with his type of athletes in his preferred scheme. Fickell, no matter how good previously, isn't going to be around when that scheme is fully implemented and Meyer, et al, don't have time to change/fix everything all at one time because he was hired late and because he doesn't have his athletes (due in part to many washing out).

It's that simple IMO.

Find any youth that have potential and let them play and learn.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:07 pm

peeker643 wrote:What do the last 4-5 years have to do with the system change that's currently and obviously going on under Meyer?

Like this ain't your daddy's offense, he's also changing the defense and it will ultimately be filled with his type of athletes in his preferred scheme. Fickell, no matter how good previously, isn't going to be around when that scheme is fully implemented and Meyer, et al, don't have time to change/fix everything all at one time because he was hired late and because he doesn't have his athletes (due in part to many washing out).

It's that simple IMO.

Find any youth that have potential and let them play and learn.


I understand that, I'm just reiterating the positives and success of that 4-2-5, it's intellectually dishonest to criticize that scheme when it doesn't have the same legit personnel that it did when it worked just fine.

Personally I am just fine with a change in such if Meyer deems it the way to go.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:20 pm

Meyer has never been a defensive coach and has always hired what is considered a high caliber DC and just let them run with it.

He hired two here, the high ranking of which hasn't changed his core defensive philosophies at all. There have been some changes (looser zones to get picks, etc) brought the influence of others but ultimately with an all-new staff the core philosophy was kept the same, because it has a long history of working (and again, I often got pissed at even Heacock for his lack of aggression).

Thanks is, neither Whithers or previous Meyer teams philosophy was ever all the blitz heavy, both have primarly relied on a bad ass D-Line and LBs to run shit. Very much like tOSU system of the last decade plus.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:06 pm

From today's B1G Coach's teleconf:

"-The coaching staff did thorough research on what was wrong with the defense. Said No. 1 problem was lack of 4-6 second effort. No. 2 is leveraging the ball. No. 3 is missed tackles, which is glaring, but said the team is getting better at that."

Not a whole lot of "scheme" problems in there. Hell, the best LB on the roster is Shazier and he is one of the worst at leveraging the ball.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby furls » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:09 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:From today's B1G Coach's teleconf:

"-The coaching staff did thorough research on what was wrong with the defense. Said No. 1 problem was lack of 4-6 second effort. No. 2 is leveraging the ball. No. 3 is missed tackles, which is glaring, but said the team is getting better at that."

Not a whole lot of "scheme" problems in there. Hell, the best LB on the roster is Shazier and he is one of the worst at leveraging the ball.


Checks with what we are seeing. I don't hate the scheme. I hate the cushions when they don't make sense, but I don't hate the scheme.

I have gotten over my knee jerk to blame the staff. Any staff that has to play Storm Klein (or an AA FB) at MLB and Orhian Johnson is FUCKED. I would add continued bad angles as #4.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:23 pm

Shazier is the king of angle issues as well.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Shazier is the king of angle issues as well.


A long time ago I saw a TV show. I think it was some kind of after school special or something. On the show is a ragtag group of delinquents who hate school; ESPECIALLY MATH! We're talking Coolio levels of notgiveafuckness out of these kids, who are clearly on the wrong path. How will anyone get through to these kids?

So there's this teacher. Right away you can tell he's no ordinary teacher. For one thing, he wears jeans AND A LEATHER JACKET! For another thing he knows all of the hip lingo. But those kids aren't fooled. Not for a second! They were all like "fuck you Mr Schwartz. You can't be cool like us cuz you're OLD! And we don't need no maths sucka!"

But Mr. Schwartz was all like "watch me play pool on this pool table. I'm wearing a leather jacket."

And they were all like "you can't play pool Mr Schwartz cuz pool is for the cool kids and as has been previously established you are not cool. Cuz you're old and WE DON'T LIKE MATH!"

So Mr Schwartz was all like "watch this kids" and he made all of the shots and WON THE POOL GAME! And not only that, all of his shots were like 5 rail shots and were amazing!

And then all of the kids were like "how did you do that Mr Schwartz!? You're the best pool player in the whole world. Maybe your leather jacket is for reals!"

And Mr Schwartz was all like "you could be the best player in the universe too if you learned geometry which is math."

And the kids were all "please tell us Mr Schwartz! Please tell us about geomerty cuz we want to be the best pool player in the world JUST LIKE YOU!"

And so Mr Schwartz showed them how to calculate the angles of their shots using those diamond things on the side of the table and geometrying everything and they never missed a shot again!

And that ragtag group of delinquent kids all learned to love math all because of the cool teacher who wore the leather jacket. And I think they painted his Volkswagen Bug super awesome using the money they won hustling pool or something (or that might have been in a different show, but all of the pool stuff happened.)

I mean, can you imagine? A TEACHER in a leather jacket!?!? That's crazy!

And the whole time this girl named Wendy or something was in a dilemma because she needed an abortion.

And so I was thinking maybe it would be a good idea if Luke Fickell put on a leather jacket and played pool with Shazier so he could understand geometry. Either that or maybe try to find that old after school special to show him. It was really good and helpful!
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:11 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Shazier is the king of angle issues as well.


A long time ago I saw a TV show. I think it was some kind of after school special or something. On the show is a ragtag group of delinquents who hate school; ESPECIALLY MATH! We're talking Coolio levels of notgiveafuckness out of these kids, who are clearly on the wrong path. How will anyone get through to these kids?

So there's this teacher. Right away you can tell he's no ordinary teacher. For one thing, he wears jeans AND A LEATHER JACKET! For another thing he knows all of the hip lingo. But those kids aren't fooled. Not for a second! They were all like "fuck you Mr Schwartz. You can't be cool like us cuz you're OLD! And we don't need no maths sucka!"

But Mr. Schwartz was all like "watch me play pool on this pool table. I'm wearing a leather jacket."

And they were all like "you can't play pool Mr Schwartz cuz pool is for the cool kids and as has been previously established you are not cool. Cuz you're old and WE DON'T LIKE MATH!"

So Mr Schwartz was all like "watch this kids" and he made all of the shots and WON THE POOL GAME! And not only that, all of his shots were like 5 rail shots and were amazing!

And then all of the kids were like "how did you do that Mr Schwartz!? You're the best pool player in the whole world. Maybe your leather jacket is for reals!"

And Mr Schwartz was all like "you could be the best player in the universe too if you learned geometry which is math."

And the kids were all "please tell us Mr Schwartz! Please tell us about geomerty cuz we want to be the best pool player in the world JUST LIKE YOU!"

And so Mr Schwartz showed them how to calculate the angles of their shots using those diamond things on the side of the table and geometrying everything and they never missed a shot again!

And that ragtag group of delinquent kids all learned to love math all because of the cool teacher who wore the leather jacket. And I think they painted his Volkswagen Bug super awesome using the money they won hustling pool or something (or that might have been in a different show, but all of the pool stuff happened.)

I mean, can you imagine? A TEACHER in a leather jacket!?!? That's crazy!

And the whole time this girl named Wendy or something was in a dilemma because she needed an abortion.

And so I was thinking maybe it would be a good idea if Luke Fickell put on a leather jacket and played pool with Shazier so he could understand geometry. Either that or maybe try to find that old after school special to show him. It was really good and helpful!


I hate your guts and wish Wendy was your mom.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:41 pm

I'm not reading that.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:06 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I'm not reading that.


You should. It makes tons of sense and just might fix our defense.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:08 pm

Are you insane?
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:24 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Are you insane?



I know. I ask myself the same thing. Why won't e0y read that? He's insane.
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Re: OSU - Indiana

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:47 am

Our head coach, in the midst of a 2-7 season my junior year, used to scream incessantly at us, insisting that "it's not the schemes! It's the personnel!!!" He got shitcanned, and we went 2-9 the next year so maybe he was right.

When I watch tOSU defense, I'm reminded of Joe Kimball's schemes vs personnel argument, and imagine Luke Fickell doing the same thing in practice.
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