CSU Vikings Hoops Thread

[neoleo]

Not a swipe at the people who enjoy Viking basketball as I've seen plenty of games there. But it's just not a draw and it's hard for me to see what hold the job has on a coach like Waters who could surely move onward and upward if he wanted to. Telling me he couldn't get a MAC gig again or something even beyond that? 4/5 past seasons with 20+ wins?

Wanted to keep this part separate because I think you bring up an interesting point. CSU is right there when you compare our attendance to the Ohio MAC teams, and I'm sure the direction schools up north and the Buffalo's of the world aren't much different. I agree, there's never going to be a need for that big ass arena with this team, but there's no shame in drawing 4,500 either. It just doesn't make for as good of an atmosphere at the Wolstein as it does at the JAR or MAC.

Also, the Horizon League is a better basketball conference than the MAC, so that's a draw for Waters, and I think he's been there done that with the high-major program. I could see him leaving, but only for a perfect situation that's closer to home/family in Detroit or with a great chance to win at a bigger stage (i.e. not Rutgers).

[peeker643]

Holy Fucking Shit was that ugly. Don't disagree with you at all Peeks. You're the perfect example of the type of fan Waters (and I) have been trying to get down there consistantly for years. Yet every time they have a big game at home where you guys actually pay attention, they play like shit. If I were a casual CSU fan that only came to a game or two a year, I would stay as far away as possible after a game like that.

As far as the 92.3 interview, those ass clowns spoke too soon. Waters was just on at 9:40. There was obviously some mis-communication going on. They thought he was coming on this morning, the SID said he rescheduled and they just didn't get the message, and Waters said on air that he always thought he was scheduled for 9:40. The real story probably goes like this: he was scheduled for the morning and decided to cancel because he was pissed, the SID heard the backlash and worked like crazy with the station to get him back on the air, and Waters tried to save face once he showed up. Just another fuckup to top off last night's awesome performance.

Interesting. Because I heard them thank him at the end of the show a couple minutes ago and wondered whether someone scrambled to get him back on. And God only knows what those two fools said earlier in the day that was derogatory toward him or the program.

They're awful. They'll get a guest and it'll be then that Booms thinks people want to hear his shit instead fo the guest. Kylie's looking to ambush people and make radio rather than broadcast it and it's just unlistenable.

And I tried.

But yes, hopefully Waters was intending to be on later and it wasn't CYA though it's likely you're right. What doesn't match up there is Waters is a stand up guy. Never been more impressed with an interview than with him and Lee Reed a couple years back.

As to last night, I mean, they try and do it right. Not a bad seat in that place, they have their Hoopy Hour thing from 5-7pm which is nice. The whole thing is affordable and you can park across the street from the joint for $10. It's just a chore for people to actually go.

And performances like last night just kill ya. They really do. That team is WAY better than last night. But now they need some help and their schedule is rougher than Valpo's down the stretch IMO. If Valpo doesn't lose tomorrow night I don't see them losing the rest of the Horizon schedule.

[peeker643]

Not a swipe at the people who enjoy Viking basketball as I've seen plenty of games there. But it's just not a draw and it's hard for me to see what hold the job has on a coach like Waters who could surely move onward and upward if he wanted to. Telling me he couldn't get a MAC gig again or something even beyond that? 4/5 past seasons with 20+ wins?

Wanted to keep this part separate because I think you bring up an interesting point. CSU is right there when you compare our attendance to the Ohio MAC teams, and I'm sure the direction schools up north and the Buffalo's of the world aren't much different. I agree, there's never going to be a need for that big ass arena with this team, but there's no shame in drawing 4,500 either. It just doesn't make for as good of an atmosphere at the Wolstein as it does at the JAR or MAC.

Also, the Horizon League is a better basketball conference than the MAC, so that's a draw for Waters, and I think he's been there done that with the high-major program. I could see him leaving, but only for a perfect situation that's closer to home/family in Detroit or with a great chance to win at a bigger stage (i.e. not Rutgers).

Good point on the venue. People were oozing out of Woodling if there were 3500. I don't know if I'd agree the Horizon is a better basketball conference than the MAC overall. Not year in, year out. Obviously you have Butler's run and CSU's recent bouncing of Wake and you can go back to Valpo's Hail Mary win against Ole Miss and then FSU but that was '98.

Ball State, Kent, Akron to an extent, have all had similar showings. It might be closer than I'm giving credit for and I see Butler's success too, but I look around at the shitty teams even in the lower half of the Big10 or SEC/Conf-USA and wonder how Waters wouldn't make those teams and those kids better.

Maybe I just overestimate how good he is.

[neoleo]

Interesting. Because I heard them thank him at the end of the show a couple minutes ago and wondered whether someone scrambled to get him back on. And God only knows what those two fools said earlier in the day that was derogatory toward him or the program.

They're awful. They'll get a guest and it'll be then that Booms thinks people want to hear his shit instead fo the guest. Kylie's looking to ambush people and make radio rather than broadcast it and it's just unlistenable.

And I tried.

But yes, hopefully Waters was intending to be on later and it wasn't CYA though it's likely you're right. What doesn't match up there is Waters is a stand up guy. Never been more impressed with an interview than with him and Lee Reed a couple years back.

I honestly don't think it would be in character for Gary to cancel. The more I think about it, the more I think there was some sort of true mis-communication and the hosts jumped the gun. I didn't actually hear them bashing CSU this morning, but apparently they were saying that Gary cancelled the interview that they agreed to win or lose. They were pissed that they promoted the game all week and after a shitty performance he was going to hide. Whether the interview was supposed to be earlier, or it was always at 9:40 I don't know, but for whaterver reason they thought Gary had cancelled (which again, isn't like him).

And performances like last night just kill ya. They really do. That team is WAY better than last night. But now they need some help and their schedule is rougher than Valpo's down the stretch IMO. If Valpo doesn't lose tomorrow night I don't see them losing the rest of the Horizon schedule.

Valpo has a cake walk compared to us. They’re at YSU Saturday for their final road game and then home for the lowly Chicago schools and Butler.

We have Butler Saturday, then at Milwaukee Tuesday, at Green Bay the following Tuesday (after a home game in Saturday’s BracketBuster - check the mileage on that trip), then home for Detroit and Wright State on Thu/Sat.

That’s six games in 14 days, including two separate trips to Wisconsin and four games in the final week. Brutal.

That’s why last night was so crucial. We would have been two games up and we needed that cushion. I’d be more surprised by us winning out than I would by us losing two more conference games. And it might be a moot point because Valpo can easily win-out.

[neoleo]

Not a swipe at the people who enjoy Viking basketball as I've seen plenty of games there. But it's just not a draw and it's hard for me to see what hold the job has on a coach like Waters who could surely move onward and upward if he wanted to. Telling me he couldn't get a MAC gig again or something even beyond that? 4/5 past seasons with 20+ wins?

Wanted to keep this part separate because I think you bring up an interesting point. CSU is right there when you compare our attendance to the Ohio MAC teams, and I'm sure the direction schools up north and the Buffalo's of the world aren't much different. I agree, there's never going to be a need for that big ass arena with this team, but there's no shame in drawing 4,500 either. It just doesn't make for as good of an atmosphere at the Wolstein as it does at the JAR or MAC.

Also, the Horizon League is a better basketball conference than the MAC, so that's a draw for Waters, and I think he's been there done that with the high-major program. I could see him leaving, but only for a perfect situation that's closer to home/family in Detroit or with a great chance to win at a bigger stage (i.e. not Rutgers).

Good point on the venue. People were oozing out of Woodling if there were 3500. I don't know if I'd agree the Horizon is a better basketball conference than the MAC overall. Not year in, year out. Obviously you have Butler's run and CSU's recent bouncing of Wake and you can go back to Valpo's Hail Mary win against Ole Miss and then FSU but that was '98.

Ball State, Kent, Akron to an extent, have all had similar showings. It might be closer than I'm giving credit for and I see Butler's success too, but I look around at the shitty teams even in the lower half of the Big10 or SEC/Conf-USA and wonder how Waters wouldn't make those teams and those kids better.

Maybe I just overestimate how good he is.

Somewhere I can find the actual stats to back this up, but I know that after Kent's elite 8 run, the MAC didn't win another NCAA game until OU beat Georgetown. The Horizon League finished higher in RPI each of those years and won a game in the tournament like 6 or 7 times. Remember that Milwaukee made a sweet 16 playing here in Cleveland, plus Butler had been to a few sweet 16's before their past two final fours, and you have CSU's win over Wake. I'll go see if I can dig up the stats, but it's really not even close.

And your point about the lower half of the power conferences, Gary experienced that at Rutgers and he doesn't want to do it again. He always had his eye on the michigan job when Amaker was there, but he obviously missed that chance.

[neoleo]

The Horizon League has won at least one game in 8 out of the last 9 NCAA Tournaments.

2003 Butler Sweet 16
2005 Milwaukee Sweet 16
2006 Milwaukee second round
2007 Butler Sweet 16
2008 Butler second round
2009 Cleveland State second round
2010 Butler championship game
2011 Butler championship game

Kent made their run in 2002, and the MAC didn't win another game until 2010 with Ohio's win.

Edited to add Conference RPI for the past five years:

2012 Horizon 15, MAC 17
2011 Horizon 12, MAC 20
2010 Horizon 12, MAC 16
2009 Horizon 13, MAC 21
2008 Horizon 11, MAC 12

http://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2 ... ferencerpi

More facts: (from Wikipedia, so take it FWIW)

From 1995 to 2011, the Horizon League has sent 24 teams to the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament. Those clubs have produced 22 wins in those 14 years, including five "Sweet 16" appearances, making the Horizon League the only non-BCS conference with Sweet 16 participants in at least five of the last nine tournaments (2003, 2005, 2007, 2010 & 2011).

The Horizon League has compiled a 15-8 record in the past five years in the NCAA tournament, ranking tops among all NCAA Division-I conferences for winning percentage in that span. Butler appeared in the 2010 and the 2011 Men's Basketball National Championship game.

The Horizon League currently holds the best winning percentage among non-BCS conferences in the men's NCAA basketball Tournament (.488, 7th overall amongst the 31 Division I conferences), and is the only non-BCS conferences with Sweet 16 teams in five of the last nine years.

[Spin]

We'll never know what really happened with the interview, and the two hosts seemed split. Booms wanted to go on with the program cancelling the interview, Kylie wanted to apologize and make it all go away. I don't see them making this shit up, after all the campaigning they did for the Vikes yesterday. I wuold hope it was the station's fault, and someone throws it in the station's face for CSU's sake.

I think it's safe to say with the FUBAR's all three teams have puked, there won't be an automatic bid from northeast Ohio this year.

Program, RPI, and Sagarins...

CSU, 68th (.568), 65th (80.80)
UA, 51st (.582), 61st (81.10)
KSU, 96th (.548), 100th (77.94)

YSU, 158th (.501), 171st (72.53)

Attendance is very close...

Cleveland State (3,112)
Kent State (3,442)
Akron (3,289)

Youngstown State unknown

[neoleo]

We'll never know what really happened with the interview, and the two hosts seemed split. Booms wanted to go on with the program cancelling the interview, Kylie wanted to apologize and make it all go away. I don't see them making this shit up, after all the campaigning they did for the Vikes yesterday. I wuold hope it was the station's fault, and someone throws it in the station's face for CSU's sake.

I think it's safe to say with the FUBAR's all three teams have puked, there won't be an automatic bid from northeast Ohio this year.

Program, RPI, and Sagarins...

CSU, 68th (.568), 65th (80.80)
UA, 51st (.582), 61st (81.10)
KSU, 96th (.548), 100th (77.94)

YSU, 158th (.501), 171st (72.53)

Attendance is very close...

Cleveland State (3,112)
Kent State (3,442)
Akron (3,289)

Youngstown State unknown

The facts coming out on the CSU board point towards a mis-communication.

[peeker643]

The Horizon League has won at least one game in 8 out of the last 9 NCAA Tournaments.

2003 Butler Sweet 16
2005 Milwaukee Sweet 16
2006 Milwaukee second round
2007 Butler Sweet 16
2008 Butler second round
2009 Cleveland State second round
2010 Butler championship game
2011 Butler championship game

Kent made their run in 2002, and the MAC didn't win another game until 2010 with Ohio's win.

Edited to add Conference RPI for the past five years:

2012 Horizon 15, MAC 17
2011 Horizon 12, MAC 20
2010 Horizon 12, MAC 16
2009 Horizon 13, MAC 21
2008 Horizon 11, MAC 12

http://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2 ... ferencerpi

More facts: (from Wikipedia, so take it FWIW)

From 1995 to 2011, the Horizon League has sent 24 teams to the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament. Those clubs have produced 22 wins in those 14 years, including five "Sweet 16" appearances, making the Horizon League the only non-BCS conference with Sweet 16 participants in at least five of the last nine tournaments (2003, 2005, 2007, 2010 & 2011).

The Horizon League has compiled a 15-8 record in the past five years in the NCAA tournament, ranking tops among all NCAA Division-I conferences for winning percentage in that span. Butler appeared in the 2010 and the 2011 Men's Basketball National Championship game.

The Horizon League currently holds the best winning percentage among non-BCS conferences in the men's NCAA basketball Tournament (.488, 7th overall amongst the 31 Division I conferences), and is the only non-BCS conferences with Sweet 16 teams in five of the last nine years.

Wow- Seriously, I had no idea it was that lopsided in favor of the Horizon. Appreciate the info and the research. And you might want to look at a gig as an SID for the conference

[Rat_Tail]

And another home loss to Butler.

[leadpipe]

We'll never know what really happened with the interview, and the two hosts seemed split. Booms wanted to go on with the program cancelling the interview, Kylie wanted to apologize and make it all go away. I don't see them making this shit up, after all the campaigning they did for the Vikes yesterday. I wuold hope it was the station's fault, and someone throws it in the station's face for CSU's sake.

I think it's safe to say with the FUBAR's all three teams have puked, there won't be an automatic bid from northeast Ohio this year.

Program, RPI, and Sagarins...

CSU, 68th (.568), 65th (80.80)
UA, 51st (.582), 61st (81.10)
KSU, 96th (.548), 100th (77.94)

YSU, 158th (.501), 171st (72.53)

Attendance is very close...

Cleveland State (3,112)
Kent State (3,442)
Akron (3,289)

Youngstown State unknown

The facts coming out on the CSU board point towards a mis-communication.

Why don't those two jag-offs ask the five total people that listen to that show their opinion?

Hell, there might be a chance Waters has heard five minutes of that show before and couldn't stomach it, win or lose.

Un
Listenable.

Shoulda became show friends with the bull and the fox - easier to escape ctiticism when there's a real good chance the fox doesn't know who you are, or what sport you're involved with.

I'd imagined it wouldn't be too hard to find a line-up capable of punching humps like Roda and Brinda in the dick, but Christ, 92.3 is awful.

[peeker643]

We need a crash cart to the Wolstein Center, STAT!!!!!

[neoleo]

Tournament time! Despite an epic collapse down the stretch (saw your note in the weekend wrap Peeks ), the Vikings actually rebounded to steal the 2 seed back from Butler and are now in very good shape. CSU has the double-bye into the semi finals on Saturday. Detroit (3) and YSU (6) are the other top seeds on our side of the Bracket. Whoever makes it out will be playing their third game against CSU while the Vikings will be rested (and hopefully have D'Aundray Brown back). Valpo gets the double-bye on the other side and has Milwuakee (4) and Butler (5) as the top seeds.

Although Detroit gives us match up problems, this is probably the best draw for us. We get a true neutral site game in the semi finals by avoiding Butler (the game's at Valpo but Butler fans will travel) and Butler/Milwaukee both have a legit shot at knocking off Valpo in the other semi final (which would move the championship game to Cleveland if we win our semi final game).

Still lots of work to do, but we're sitting pretty as compared to where we could have been after the 5 game losing streak. Two wins is much more doable than 4, especially if Brown comes back as expected.

[peeker643]

Tournament time! Despite an epic collapse down the stretch (saw your note in the weekend wrap Peeks ), the Vikings actually rebounded to steal the 2 seed back from Butler and are now in very good shape. CSU has the double-bye into the semi finals on Saturday. Detroit (3) and YSU (6) are the other top seeds on our side of the Bracket. Whoever makes it out will be playing their third game against CSU while the Vikings will be rested (and hopefully have D'Aundray Brown back). Valpo gets the double-bye on the other side and has Milwuakee (4) and Butler (5) as the top seeds.

Although Detroit gives us match up problems, this is probably the best draw for us. We get a true neutral site game in the semi finals by avoiding Butler (the game's at Valpo but Butler fans will travel) and Butler/Milwaukee both have a legit shot at knocking off Valpo in the other semi final (which would move the championship game to Cleveland if we win our semi final game).

Still lots of work to do, but we're sitting pretty as compared to where we could have been after the 5 game losing streak. Two wins is much more doable than 4, especially if Brown comes back as expected.

I hear ya. I just don't have much confidence in either OSU or CSU. I hope as much as anyone that CSU righted the ship and didn't just bale enough water to survive til the next big hit.

[neoleo]

Tournament time! Despite an epic collapse down the stretch (saw your note in the weekend wrap Peeks ), the Vikings actually rebounded to steal the 2 seed back from Butler and are now in very good shape. CSU has the double-bye into the semi finals on Saturday. Detroit (3) and YSU (6) are the other top seeds on our side of the Bracket. Whoever makes it out will be playing their third game against CSU while the Vikings will be rested (and hopefully have D'Aundray Brown back). Valpo gets the double-bye on the other side and has Milwuakee (4) and Butler (5) as the top seeds.

Although Detroit gives us match up problems, this is probably the best draw for us. We get a true neutral site game in the semi finals by avoiding Butler (the game's at Valpo but Butler fans will travel) and Butler/Milwaukee both have a legit shot at knocking off Valpo in the other semi final (which would move the championship game to Cleveland if we win our semi final game).

Still lots of work to do, but we're sitting pretty as compared to where we could have been after the 5 game losing streak. Two wins is much more doable than 4, especially if Brown comes back as expected.

I hear ya. I just don't have much confidence in either OSU or CSU. I hope as much as anyone that CSU righted the ship and didn't just bale enough water to survive til the next big hit.

I have more confidence in CSU getting into the tournament than I do OSU making the sweet 16, but that might not be saying much.

[peeker643]

47-35 Detroit with 11 minutes left. That's after a 10-0 Detroit run.

Not looking too good.

[peeker643]

And of course a 12-2 CSU run makes it 49-47 w/3minutes remaining.

[peeker643]

Horrible final month for Vikings culminated with loss to Detroit tonight.

Be stunned if they get an NIT bid.

Ughh....

[neoleo]

Hanging on by a thread to get an NIT. Only chance is if Valpo gets the auto NCAA bid, and even then its a crap shoot.

Gonna be a long year next year. Only senior will be former walkon Tim Kamczyz. We only have two juniors-to-be, and both could/probably will transfer due to lack of playing time.

Probable starting lineup next year will include three sophomores and a true freshman, plus Tim K. Entire bench will be sophomores and true freshman.

Lots of talent, but a tough non-conference schedule, an improved HL (Butler, Valpo and Green Bay return everybody, Det and YSU return enough talent to stay in the top half) and the lack of experience will lead to a rough season. A .500 season will be an accomplishment imo, but 2013-14 and 2014-15 look bright with Anton Grady and the other young talent maturing as the other teams lose their top talent.

[neoleo]

Also, very disappointed for the senior class, especially Trey Harmon, Jeremy Montgomery and D'Aundray Brown who were here the entire 4/5 years. Those guys go out as the winningest senior class in program history, but their only NCAA bid came when Harmon and Montgomery were freshman bench players and Brown was an injured sophomore (before his redshirt year). A real shame that Brown never had a chance to play in an NCAA game.

Would have loved to see what last year's team could have done with Norris Cole and a healthy D'Aundray Brown. At the time, I thought it was a blessing in disguise to have Brown back for this year, but it just didn't work out.

[jb]

The only surprise to this season was this thread going 2 pages. A perpetual NIT program at ceiling.

[neoleo]

The only surprise to this season was this thread going 2 pages. A perpetual NIT program at ceiling.

We've hit our ceiling! Vikes get an NIT bid at Stanford Tuesday night at 11 on ESPN2. Gonna be tough on such a short turn around. Find out your selection at 9 p.m. Sunday, fly out west Monday and play Tuesday.

[neoleo]

I'm sure I'm the only person who follows this, but CSU has put together a pretty solid mid major recruiting class. Things started off quickly as Waters received five commitments in the early signing period, inlcuding three 2-stars and two 3-stars (matching the amount of 2 and 3-stars landed during the entire Waters era), but three of those guys ended up not qualifying (including one of the 3-stars).

But Waters rebounded by landing Penn State transfer Trey Lewis (former 3-star from Garfield Heights) and 6-9 center and former Missouri 2-star commitment Aaron Scales. They also landed Chris Brown, a 6-11 transfer from Oregon State halfway through last year and he'll become eligible at the semester break with 2.5 years to play.

Chris Brown 6-11 C, Houston, TX (Sophomore transfer from Oregon State)
Trey Lewis 6-1 G, Garfield Hts, OH (former 3-star recruit, freshman transfer from Penn State)
Aaron Scales 6-9 C, Kernersville, NC (2-star originally committed to Missouri)
Junior Lomomba 6-4 G, Milwaukee, WI (3-star, offers included Cincinnati, UCLA, West Virginia, Xavier and Baylor)
Bryn Forbes 6-3 G, Lansing, MI (2-star)
Josh Ivory 6-2 G, Alexandria, LA (not highly rated, Waters loves his defense and smarts-he was accepted to Columbia)

With one player transfering out (freshman Ike Nwamu), there is room for one more. It looks like they could add JUCO forward Majok Majok to help with the depth in the post.

Next year is going to be a rebuilding year with only one senior and mostly sophomores and freshman making up the rotation, but this will be Waters' most talented team. Anton Grady has the chance to be one of the top players in the HL in a year or two, and if these guys develop around him next year, they could be the team to beat in 2013 as Trey Lewis becomes eligible.

[pup]

Wait. Dudes name is Majok Majok

[neoleo]

Wait. Dudes name is Majok Majok

It is, pretty awesome indeed. He's from Australia of all places, and apparently he can dunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DDZo77J ... r_embedded

[pup]

[neoleo]

CSU announced a 2 for 1 with Ohio State yesterday, to start next year in Columbus. Supposedly the home game will actually be played at the Wolstein Center instead of the Q this time. That home game in 2014-15 will be Anton Grady's senior season, and that has a chance to be a great year for the Vikings (on paper and very early of course, but the transfers will be eligible and the top recruits will be juniors and seniors).

[neoleo]

CSU landed a commit from VASJ's Demonte Flannigan. Kid is a 6-8, 245 pound PF and rated 3 stars by rivals and scout. Had offers from Wisonsin, St. Bonnies, Xavier, Miami (FL), DePaul, Akron and others.

The next few years are looking really good for CSU. This is three years in a row now that Waters has brought in the highest rated recruits this program has ever had. These are the same "types" of classes that Butler put together before their two tourney runs (emphasis on types because obviously it's too early to compare and I don't see a lottery pick like Gordon Hayward).

Next year you'll have 5 players who had high-major offers.

So G Trey Lewis (transfer from Penn State)
So G/F Junior Lomomba (offers from UCLA, Wisconsin among others)
Jr F Anton Grady (many offers, MSU being the best)
So C Aaron Scales (originally committed to Missouri)
and Flannigan as a Fr.

I hate to look past this season before it even starts, but there's only one senior on the roster and there's still another scholarship to give. This year will be a developmental year, but 2013-14 and 2014-15 are shaping up to be special (and maybe Water's last run).

[Spin]

Hey Vikes, there was a game today.


Damn...

[neoleo]

Vikes were going to be down this year anyway after graduating 4 seniors last year and starting 4 sophomores this year. We're especially down now with Anton Grady (our best player) out for the year. With Grady out we really only have 2 big men (both juniors who have played little in their careers), and each was suspended for six games so we've been playing small forwards at center. Also, our top freshman, Junior Lomomba (probably our 2nd best player behind Grady) has been hurt and only played a few games. He scored 19 against Akron so there's hope we'll at least have a go-to scorer moving forward.

There's going to be a lot of ugly basketball at the Wolstein this year.

Next year's team will return everybody except Tim Kamczyc and adds Trey Lewis (Penn State transfer from Garfield Hts who will be eligible with 3 years still to play), Demonte Flannigan (3 star PF from VASJ), a 4-star JUCO Center, and we'll get Grady back with 3 years still to play. Waters said before the year, "they better get us this year because next year it's over." I think he was right, this team is going to have a 3 year window of being very good starting next year.

And the loss to Akron ended an 11 game winning streak over the MAC for CSU.

[Rat_Tail]

Bryn Forbes already putting up good numbers and he's a freshman. Other than that this team stinks.

[neoleo]

Bryn Forbes already putting up good numbers and he's a freshman. Other than that this team stinks.

Yeah it's been a long year already. Vikes are better at home (although they blew a 13 point lead to Loyola this week), but only 1-9 on the road.

The season was going to be a challenge anyway because of youth, but when Anton Grady went down for the year it was over. There is some young talent on this team, but no real post presence and their two best players are out (Grady with injury and Trey Lewis as a transfer from Penn State). This is forcing guys to try to score when it's not their strength and they become a real train wreck on offense when they don't create points from their press.

Bryn Forbes is putting up all Horizon numbers and is in line to be newcomer of the year, which is nice because he was an afterthought in the recruiting class (behind Junior Lomomba and two other guys who ended up not qualifying).

I still think this team can be dangerous in the HL tourney because when they do play well, they look really good. Plus, the Horizon is not very good this year and the top two teams (Valpo and Detroit) are not perfect (CSU already beat Detroit at home).

Next year Grady, Lewis and Forbes will all be sophomores and they only lose one guy off this year's team. That looks to be the start of another good run for CSU.