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Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:05 pm

At least we can continue to injure defensive starters.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:07 pm

still hate the Weeden pick.. good thing that hasn't changed..
Also nice to see that a team (Giants) averaging 90 yards rushing got their running game going today...

I need to find something to gouge my eyes out..
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:11 pm

We're not going to beat Cincy or Indy, so that leaves? KC, Wash or Oak?
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:19 pm

TouchEmAllTime wrote:We're not going to beat Cincy or Indy, so that leaves? KC, Wash or Oak?


All 5 of those teams are beatable.. but I think we only take 2.. anyone's guess.. Weeden is bound to accidentally have a good game or 2 in there, (or perhaps the D will give the offense the game like they did vs Philly, and the Offense actually comes through)
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:42 pm

Bullshit. This team can (accidentally) beat anyone. If they somehow learn to not fuck themselves, they might be interesting. Haden comes back next week. Taylor comes back soon. WR's come back. Somebody's gonna get fucked up and "not see it coming".
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:43 pm

trsteve1 wrote:still hate the Weeden pick.. good thing that hasn't changed..
Also nice to see that a team (Giants) averaging 90 yards rushing got their running game going today...

I need to find something to gouge my eyes out..


I know, if Colt was in there, no way they lose this game.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Bullshit. This team can (accidentally) beat anyone. If they somehow learn to not fuck themselves, they might be interesting. Haden comes back next week. Taylor comes back soon. WR's come back. Somebody's gonna get fucked up and "not see it coming".


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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:59 pm

bookelly wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Bullshit. This team can (accidentally) beat anyone. If they somehow learn to not fuck themselves, they might be interesting. Haden comes back next week. Taylor comes back soon. WR's come back. Somebody's gonna get fucked up and "not see it coming".


SHUR


This.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:07 pm

TouchEmAllTime wrote:
bookelly wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Bullshit. This team can (accidentally) beat anyone. If they somehow learn to not fuck themselves, they might be interesting. Haden comes back next week. Taylor comes back soon. WR's come back. Somebody's gonna get fucked up and "not see it coming".


SHUR


This.


I so agree. His presence is better for the future of the Browns than you can imagine.

He keeps losing games, they get that pass rusher that will make the next coach look like a fuckin' genius.

EDIT - and him losing means that Haslam won't be so foolish as to "stay the course".
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:35 pm

San Diego

@H the 28th

Book it, Dano.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:48 pm

I think they win they win next week, actually.

The offense is getting better. The bullet-to-the-head mistakes Weeden is making need to stop but it's part of the rookie process.

By the way, you can hate the Weeden pick (as I do) and not want anything to do with Colt (as I don't). You can also hate the Weeden pick and still acknowledge it sure looks like the game is slowing down for him, he's making more good throws than bad (but one or two bad ones will ruin your day) and that he and Richardson can give any team a tough day.

Weeden needs to learn fast that there are worse things than throwing the ball away and that inches equal losses if you miss high and behind.

I still see nothing special (and big arms ain't special unless you're in the 10% of the league that didn't have one already) but I do see improvement in many areas. Not enough to win, and he needs to continue to improve. His receivers are as good as Colt's if not better and his back is far more of a threat. So no one better go there or we're heading down Shit Road to Fucksville again. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:53 pm

It's all about the SHUR at this point. There are certainly some positions that need some work, but the most glaring need at this juncture is at OC/HC. They get rid of him, get these rooks some experience, get a nice pass rusher in the top 5 next year... the new coach is gonna look like Einstein.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:07 pm

To put it flatly...

This team has some talent, but even if all those parts are NFL quality (questionable), it won't matter as long as they keep getting betrayed by Pat Shurmur.

So losing serves 2 purposes - it helps to get a high draft pick and it helps to get rid of Shurmur.

The draft pick is nice but not nearly as essential as not doing the Holmgren-Mangini mistake all over again.

Just like you don't want to enter a season with a QB that can't possibly get you to the promised land, you don't want to enter a season with a coach that limits you likewise.

Whatever it takes to get rid of Shurmur.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Whatever it takes to get rid of Shurmur.



We have a TCF Greenlight on Pat Shurmur gentlemen. Godspeed ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Whatever it takes to get rid of Shurmur.



We have a TCF Greenlight on Pat Shurmur gentlemen. Godspeed ;-) ;) :wink:


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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:27 pm

Spent the day at a family gathering and two things I've noticed this year once again were screaming in my face.

1. Weeden is better than Colt McCoy and Derek Anderson.
2. Pat Shurmur is not better than Eric Mangini or Romeo Crennell

Neither of these things are going to win you a Super Bowl.

Bonus Content: Drove home after the game and listened to the postgame show. Listening to Pat Shurmur speak almost made me wreck the car. He is so clueless he can't even answer basic questions without a slight whine creeping into his voice. I kept waiting for him to just break down and start crying while saying, "Coaching is HARD you guys!!"

Also, I'm going to punch the next person in the face who tells me Weeden is "young" and has "time to develop."

He's not young by NFL standards for being a rookie, so stop fooling yourself with that nonsense. When there is a new front office and new coaching staff next year, they'll have about as much loyalty to Weeden as any other new FO/Coaching staff does to the previous regime's picks: ZERO.

Weeden has 11 more games to develop, otherwise it'll be yet another new starting QB in Week One for the Browns who is not on the roster this season.

For the Record, I also will punch anyone in the face who starts crying for McCoy. If I even need to explain this one, welcome to the Boards!! Do a search.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:32 pm

I think Gordon is the real deal and Norwood is a keeper too

Cribbs is a wasted roster spot and Little is proving to be a bust

I'm fine with rest, even Slow Mass
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:33 pm

justmebd wrote:Weeden has 11 more games to develop, otherwise it'll be yet another new starting QB in Week One for the Browns who is not on the roster this season.


You just keep telling yourself that.

Rookie is rookie, if they're 23 or 28. Playing for the High Desert Rock Lizards doesn't really get you the NFL experience you need. And Weeden will need to play a helluva lot worse for you to see them spend a 1st round pick on another QB this year.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
justmebd wrote:Weeden has 11 more games to develop, otherwise it'll be yet another new starting QB in Week One for the Browns who is not on the roster this season.


You just keep telling yourself that.

Rookie is rookie, if they're 23 or 28. Playing for the High Desert Rock Lizards doesn't really get you the NFL experience you need. And Weeden will need to play a helluva lot worse for you to see them spend a 1st round pick on another QB this year.

It's the cynic in me. I can't help it. As soon as Haslem bought the team I said to myself, "Better start scounting College QBs again."
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:55 pm

You throw 90 in HS, you get a shot at the Big League

You hit the strike zone on occasion, you get time to develop

Any moron can see that right now this team still needs D in a monufuckingmental way much more than another rookie QB next yr

DE

Corner

LB LB LB

...and throw the fucking ball downfield on 1st down on occasion fir crise sake
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Spin » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:55 pm

Why don't we just hire an offensive coordinator?

Someone with 30+ years of coaching experience, NFL head coach experience a plus. Someone who lives and breathes Walrus' version of the WCO.

That would make all the difference.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:15 pm

Spin wrote:Why don't we just hire an offensive coordinator?

Someone with 30+ years of coaching experience, NFL head coach experience a plus. Someone who lives and breathes Walrus' version of the WCO.

That would make all the difference.

WCO is done in today's NFL IMHO. But that's a different argument.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:56 pm

justmebd wrote:WCO is done in today's NFL IMHO. But that's a different argument.

I pretty much agree.

It does look like Weeden and TRich can play though.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:12 pm

justmebd wrote:
Spin wrote:Why don't we just hire an offensive coordinator?

Someone with 30+ years of coaching experience, NFL head coach experience a plus. Someone who lives and breathes Walrus' version of the WCO.

That would make all the difference.

WCO is done in today's NFL IMHO. But that's a different argument.


Heath Evans last week on Cleveland radio (paraphrasing but very closely):

Q- Can the Browns win with this offense?
HE- No. Not without specific game planning for specific defenses. The WCO itself isn't enough.

Q- Will Holmgren be part of the Haslam Browns?
HE- No way. The consensus around the league for a few years now is Mike has been collecting checks. His last couple years in Seattle saw him getting to the facility at 10am most days. Ask Bill Belichik if that's enough to win NFL games.

Q- Why is Trent Richardson coming off the field on 3rd downs?
HE- Trent Richardson is a beast who was better prepared at Alabama for NFL life than he has been in Cleveland. He's a complete back and if he's having trouble with blitz-pro it's a communication issue in Cleveland. In Seattle Holmgren would tell us one thing, the RB coach would teach us something different and the line coach would stress yet another thing. It was a couple years before most guys had seen enough and played enough in the system to pick it up themselves.

ETA: Found the link

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/?podcast_ ... .CLEVELAND
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Spin » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:58 pm

justmebd wrote:
Spin wrote:Why don't we just hire an offensive coordinator?

Someone with 30+ years of coaching experience, NFL head coach experience a plus. Someone who lives and breathes Walrus' version of the WCO.

That would make all the difference.

WCO is done in today's NFL IMHO. But that's a different argument.


Agreed, that was part of the joke. Almost as funny as calling Brad Childress the OC.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:22 pm

Spin wrote:
justmebd wrote:
Spin wrote:Why don't we just hire an offensive coordinator?

Someone with 30+ years of coaching experience, NFL head coach experience a plus. Someone who lives and breathes Walrus' version of the WCO.

That would make all the difference.

WCO is done in today's NFL IMHO. But that's a different argument.


Agreed, that was part of the joke. Almost as funny as calling Brad Childress the OC.

Sorry, I totally whiffed on that one. Should've seen the joke.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:51 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:still hate the Weeden pick.. good thing that hasn't changed..
Also nice to see that a team (Giants) averaging 90 yards rushing got their running game going today...

I need to find something to gouge my eyes out..


I know, if Colt was in there, no way they lose this game.


He wouldn't have thrown that pick into the endzone.. but mostly because he can't throw the ball into that tight a window and would have panicked and been leveled by Tuck Pierre-Paul'anuka Or something like that..

favorite part of the entire broadcast was in the opening few minutes between the broadcasters, (can't remember who said what)

guy 1: "now Weeden get's to see how old man Manning gets it done"
guy 2: *chuckles* "Well, Weeden's only 2 years younger than Manning"

Yup, that's our 2012 1st round pick, a QB who is a rookie, and by definition not ready to lead a team anywhere, and who wouldn't likely be good enough to lead a team to the playoffs on his own for 4-6 years, but is older than half the starting QBs in the NFL already.

Of course, it's irrelevant because most of the players around him are untalented and slow ...

Gordon had some nice moments, hope this is him starting to grasp the offense, and not just a lucky strike, like Jerome Harrison rushing for nearly 3 bills..

T-Rich looks legit.. just makes guys miss and runs hard.. I think he finally has caught up to the NFL speed (took 4 weeks, which is oddly how long preseason would have been for him if he hadn't be injured).. but this was the first week where it looked like he understand where the hole was, and then when it wasn't there, he knew what his other options were (cut back lanes, etc)

Defense was awful.. absolutely abysmal.. Loved how Victor Cruz beat the same guy on the same move, TWICE.. that was classic shit there, also love how it should have been worse for us, because the official blew the call on the Usama Young interception, which should have been a PI on Sheldon Brown (which, btw, is there a corner back in the league who looks more overmatched right now than an aging Sheldon Brown?)

Play call on 3rd and 1 which lead to the long interception return was asinine.. how are you not running it there, they had been mixing up the run calls all that drive, and then they roll out a slow QB, forcing the Giants D to only have to defend half the field, idiotic.. absolute 'bang head on the corner of your desk just to see if you can give yourself a concussion' type moment.

Go Browns!
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:09 pm

trsteve1 wrote:(........ btw, is there a corner back in the league who looks more overmatched right now than an aging Sheldon Brown?)



......Buster Skrine.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:13 pm

pod2dawg wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:(........ btw, is there a corner back in the league who looks more overmatched right now than an aging Sheldon Brown?)



......Buster Skrine.


touche

though, Skrine looks more clueless than over matched.. which I suppose amounts to the same thing.. getting torched for yards and TDs over and over again...
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:35 pm

Weeden on pace for 3,988 passing yards, which is like 150 off Sipe's season record.
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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:07 am

trsteve1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:still hate the Weeden pick.. good thing that hasn't changed..
Also nice to see that a team (Giants) averaging 90 yards rushing got their running game going today...

I need to find something to gouge my eyes out..


I know, if Colt was in there, no way they lose this game.


He wouldn't have thrown that pick into the endzone.. but mostly because he can't throw the ball into that tight a window and would have panicked and been leveled by Tuck Pierre-Paul'anuka Or something like that..

favorite part of the entire broadcast was in the opening few minutes between the broadcasters, (can't remember who said what)

guy 1: "now Weeden get's to see how old man Manning gets it done"
guy 2: *chuckles* "Well, Weeden's only 2 years younger than Manning"

Yup, that's our 2012 1st round pick, a QB who is a rookie, and by definition not ready to lead a team anywhere, and who wouldn't likely be good enough to lead a team to the playoffs on his own for 4-6 years, but is older than half the starting QBs in the NFL already.

Of course, it's irrelevant because most of the players around him are untalented and slow ...

Go Browns!


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Re: Apathy is Browns @ Giants Game Thread

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:37 am

Don't really care if Weeden is 29, these days. He'll either get it and become serviceable and we'll get a few years of competent play, which we haven't had since the return, or he'll self destruct down the stretch this year and we'll get another 1st year guy with a top 5 pick.....meaning the rest of the team will suffer, and that Julio Jones trade will have been completely useless.

I'm pretty sure he's back next year, with a different OC/system to learn and pin his mistakes on.

I kind of wish Chud was back; that vertical scheme he ran in 07' would be be pretty fun to watch with this group. I don't think the WCO is completely useless in the modern NFL, just the version of it Patty is trotting out; you've got to adapt it to the modern game and to your strengths, like Green Bay does.

Either way, the problem for this team is going to start next week, when the schedule dramatically slows down. Still a lot of great teams to play, but you aren't playing division winners every single week, and there's a lot of improvement going on right now. SHUR is going to win a few, and tout the progress there. Every coach out there makes mistakes, and he's going to have enough evidence to say that he makes less than the people around him, just the youth/inexperience factor makes it appear like more. (Little failing to catch anything, injuries depleting his defense, stupid penalties, rookie qb, etc)

More important than the next draft is who his replacement gon' be.....that's the make or break moment for this franchise, as always, going forward.
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