Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:56 pm

Atlanta fans are covering the field with garbage after getting hosed on yet another shitty call by umps in the postseason.

Robot umps and instant replay.

by **swerb** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:05 pm

This is insanity!

by **Adverb Harry** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:14 pm

Wow. Just wow.

Calls like that are the only solace I have that our team just sucks right now, because I would probably mortally wound the closest person if we got hosed like that in a playoff game.

by **justmebd** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:24 pm

All I could think of while watching this was "I'm glad this isn't happening to Cleveland."

by **bookelly** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:50 pm

justmebd wrote:All I could think of while watching this was "I can't believe this isn't happening to Cleveland."

by **Erie Warrior** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:27 pm

Infield fly rule doesn't literally have to be in the infield. It's designed to keep a team from turning a double play on purposely dropped fly ball. Not saying the call was right, but I can make an argument for the umpires.

by **pup** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:21 pm

Until he flinches because he thinks he heard Holliday, that kid is making that catch easily. Proper call, IMO. 100/100 that gets called. It is why the ump waited so long to make the call. If Kozmar gets into position with relative ease, which he did, he calls it.

by **justmebd** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:38 pm

bookelly wrote:
justmebd wrote:All I could think of while watching this was "I can't believe this isn't happening to Cleveland."

My bad. Thanks!!

by **FUDU** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:41 pm

Call was late, not wrong.

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:48 pm

I think it was wrong too. No way are they able to turn a DP if he let's it drop.

by **FUDU** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:53 pm

Atlanta fans don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hell IIRC they didn't even sell out some of the 95 WS games.

by **motherscratcher** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:00 am

FUDU wrote:Atlanta fans don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hell IIRC they didn't even sell out some of the 95 WS games.

I do hear that it's a shitty sports town. Say what you want about Cleveland and the attendance, but I can't imagine Progressive Field not selling out playoff games.

And I agree with Rich, there is absolutely nothing better than playoff baseball.

by **bookelly** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:35 am

The extra foul-line umpire made the call. Standing in a spot he doesn't stand in for 162 games. If he's in his usual spot at 3B I'm sure he doesn't call INF-fly. And to make it worse, it was a very late call. But...

...Braves gave up 6 runs. They have nobody to blame but themselves for the loss.

/Happy to see 2 big market teams bite the dust. (Is Altanta big market? - maybe not, but they are bigger than most)

by **swerb** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:25 am

The call was absolutely wrong. Ball was well out in left field, the shortstop abandoned the ball because of that fact and not cause he was trying to let it drop to make an out. I'm not sure how anyone could even dispute this. That was not the infield fly rule. If it was, and you truly believe they should have called it there ... then you'd have 3-4 infield fly rule calls a game using that play as precedent.

Crazy start to the playoffs. That game, Rangers descent finalized with a one game knockout after back to back AL titles.

Verlander tonight at 6 and game 1 of what should be a fantastic series between the Reds and Giants.

I've got the Tigers beating the Yankees in the ALCS. Giants over the Nats. Giants over the Tigers in the WS.

by **FUDU** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:34 am

The rule:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/19750956/text-of-the-infield-fly-rule

by **swerb** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:52 am

There's at least 3-5 fly balls caught in the short outfield, by outfielders, that could have been caught by infielders with ordinary effort.

Should all of those be called infield fly too?

by **FUDU** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 pm

I really don't know. But there are key parts in that rule that lead to the conclusion, at least lead to arguing it was the right call. Problem with the rule, like so many rules (STRIKE ZONE), it leaves plenty of room for judgment. Something robot umps do not possess, robot ump supporters.

by **swerb** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:16 pm

I've seen that same play 1,000 times. I have never seen it called infield fly. Irregardless of who ends up catching it (infielder, outfielder), the call is made when the ball is in the air. Thus, in my view, if you arguing that last nights ball should have been called infield fly, you are essentially saying umpires have been calling it wrong for the last 100 years.

by **FUDU** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:18 pm

So should I concede the point to you b/c I've only seen that same kind of play 865 times?

:cheers:

Now get your butt back into a strat league.

by **pup** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:39 pm

1. The rule has NOTHING to do with location of the ball. It is all about normal effort, and the SS was having no problem getting there.

2. In those 1,000 times you say it wasn't called, it probably was but nobody realizes it because the guy catches the ball. It is a hand signal, and I highly doubt anyone is paying attention to the mechanics of an umpire on too many pop-ups.

3. If a shorter pop-up was hit in front of the CF, but the same "distance" from home plate and the IF was plying in and the SS/2B hs to bust ass to get there, it does not get called.

by **swerb** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:32 pm

All valid points. But that ball was too far out. Way too far out. SS kept going back and was never even under the ball. How many times have we seen that exact same ball fall? Never is infield fly called on a ball that deep. Ever. Wasn't even close. Twas a butchered call.

by **Erie Warrior** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:20 pm

SS was under the ball, backed off for the LF. Runners were only a few steps off their respective bags, it could have been a DP.

Late call, but the correct one.

by **pup** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:00 am

swerb wrote:All valid points. But that ball was too far out. Way too far out. SS kept going back and was never even under the ball. How many times have we seen that exact same ball fall? Never is infield fly called on a ball that deep. Ever. Wasn't even close. Twas a butchered call.

One more point. There is not very often that an umpire is stationed that far out. In the normal 3B umpire angle, he would probably never consider the SS making that catch as easily as it was going to be made. But with this guy basically standing parallel to the play, it was pretty clear the SS was there and was going to be able to camp under it. Which is why he still waited as long as possible for signaling it.

You keep saying too far out. I keep telling you, distance and location have nothing to do with it.

by **FUDU** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:23 pm

pup wrote:
swerb wrote:All valid points. But that ball was too far out. Way too far out. SS kept going back and was never even under the ball. How many times have we seen that exact same ball fall? Never is infield fly called on a ball that deep. Ever. Wasn't even close. Twas a butchered call.

One more point. There is not very often that an umpire is stationed that far out. In the normal 3B umpire angle, he would probably never consider the SS making that catch as easily as it was going to be made. But with this guy basically standing parallel to the play, it was pretty clear the SS was there and was going to be able to camp under it. Which is why he still waited as long as possible for signaling it.

You keep saying too far out. I keep telling you, distance and location have nothing to do with it.

Right, it is basically up to the ump to decide how easy of a play it is for the infielder. Whether on the edge of the grass or 25ft into the OF.

by **bookelly** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:47 am

Wow...so much fun. A's and Yanks in nail-biters.

Great games.

by **leadpipe** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:52 am

FUDU wrote:
pup wrote:
swerb wrote:All valid points. But that ball was too far out. Way too far out. SS kept going back and was never even under the ball. How many times have we seen that exact same ball fall? Never is infield fly called on a ball that deep. Ever. Wasn't even close. Twas a butchered call.

One more point. There is not very often that an umpire is stationed that far out. In the normal 3B umpire angle, he would probably never consider the SS making that catch as easily as it was going to be made. But with this guy basically standing parallel to the play, it was pretty clear the SS was there and was going to be able to camp under it. Which is why he still waited as long as possible for signaling it.

You keep saying too far out. I keep telling you, distance and location have nothing to do with it.

Right, it is basically up to the ump to decide how easy of a play it is for the infielder. Whether on the edge of the grass or 25ft into the OF.

Far bigger problem then the location was the timing.

As an ump, if you're gonna wait till the ball is a half second from landing, you're inviting the kick in the balls that comes along with it.

And as far as "line umps" in the playoffs, you could cite far more incidents in which they've caused confusion or problems than they've actually helped.

Most useless entity in sports.

by **googleeph2** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:21 pm

Points taken on the fly rule, but never, ever will I entertain complaints about umpire calls from anyone who was a fan of Glavine and Maddux in 1995. And I do run into them, thru my job.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:27 pm

Wow, the Giants survive to live another day. Or, actually, another series. Didn't see that coming after the first two games. Cinci folded like a cheap suit. Woulda kinda sorta been nice to see a team from OH move on. Then again, they're Cinci.

by **Dnthateonthepronk** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:36 am

every series has gone to a game 5

by **bookelly** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:57 pm

A-Rod benched. Wow. If they lose...holy fraking shiat.

- to be read in Chris Farley's voice

by **Am I Here Again?** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:05 pm

Damn Yankees.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's all. Thank you.

by **Dnthateonthepronk** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:06 am

up 6-0 in game 5 and lose.... :bag:

by **swerb** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:41 am

I still cannot believe what I witnessed last night. Cleveland-esque collapse for the Nats. Amazing.

by **Adverb Harry** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:04 am

And with that, now all four teams I was pulling for in the playoffs are officially out.

by **Larvell Blanks** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:09 am

swerb wrote:I still cannot believe what I witnessed last night. Cleveland-esque collapse for the Nats. Amazing.

Sat there stunned at what I witnessed. Similar to the Rangers blowing the Series.

The decision to shut Stras down is going to be heavily debated all off season in DC

by **bookelly** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:53 am

Ran across the street to beer up in the bottom of the 9th, Nats up by two. Thought it was over. Got back and was like...wtf? The beauty of baseball.

And as was noted above, all four of my teams are now out. Guess it's now Detroit. Which is like kissing your sister.

by **TouchEmAllTime** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:14 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:
swerb wrote:I still cannot believe what I witnessed last night. Cleveland-esque collapse for the Nats. Amazing.

Sat there stunned at what I witnessed. Similar to the Rangers blowing the Series.

The decision to shut Stras down is going to be heavily debated all off season in DC

I don't think it even matters if he pitched or not, the Cardinals just seemed destined again. They are the Jason Vorhees of MLB.

by **Commodore Perry** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:39 am

New York doesn't deserve that team. Another comeback, and the stadium is half empty. What spoiled little brats their fans are to leave down 4-0 in the 9th.

by **Adverb Harry** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:51 am

Commodore Perry wrote:New York doesn't deserve that team. Another comeback, and the stadium is half empty. What spoiled little brats their fans are to leave down 4-0 in the 9th.

Agreed 1000%. They get a free pass into the playoffs every year. We're dying for a "window of contention."

Not turning this into a payroll/economics thing, but it's a damn joke. If Commissioner Bud really wants to make a legacy for himself and add to the game, he needs to quit coming up with stupid gimmicks and stunts and address the real issues.

Done ranting. Can't believe I actually have to root for the Tigers this week. :pb:

by **bookelly** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:57 am

If Jeter is truly done, there goes the only reason to watch the Yanks.

by **TouchEmAllTime** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 am

That was an epic game one, and man does Valverde blow.

by **RedDawg53** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:00 pm

Derek Jeter injured by a ground ball hit by Jhonny Peralta. He has a knack for injuring shortstops. At least he didn't fall on him like he did to Asdrubal.

Jhonny injures Asdrubal by falling on him @TB. Jeter old then, ancient now. Jhonny grounds out, Jeter's old ass ankle snaps. Jeter retires. Asdrubal traded to NYY for prospects & cash. Small world indeed.

by **motherscratcher** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:16 pm

There really is nothing like attending playoff baseball games. I hope it's not too long before we get that again.

by **ClevelandFanInNewYork** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:50 pm

CC channelling his 2007 Red Sox mojo vs. the Tigers this afternoon. I'm tired of hearing how great an ace he is. He screwed us in 2007 when we needed him.

It's also crazy that Peralta was the one that put the nail in the Yankee's coffin.

by **fairvis** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:54 pm

Mike Illitch has an amazing wig on tonight. And the nose hair is truly epic.

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:37 pm

Not following the playoffs one iota, but Go Cardinals.

by **leadpipe** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:55 am

Looks like the Fall Classic is going to feature a team that has a manager with absolutely no managerial experience - at any level vs. a squad that was gonna be a joke because they had too many fat asses in the field.

Just like this board predicted in the spring....errr...well it predicted about the opposite but anyways....

Moral - Get yourself some PLAYS. Don't matter who the captain of the ship is, don't matter righty/lefty/fasty/slowy blah, blah blah.

Get yourself some PLAYAS, get yourself some WINS.

The way the game always has, and always will work.

by **Bigfist** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:31 am

Well, if you go back to the preseason prediction thread, most people put the Tigers in the playoffs, and I and Cerebral Down Time actually had the Tigers winning the World Series. No one had St. Louis winning it, although many people had them in the playoffs.

by **pup** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:33 am

leadpipe wrote:Looks like the Fall Classic is going to feature a team that has a manager with absolutely no managerial experience - at any level vs. a squad that was gonna be a joke because they had too many fat asses in the field.

Just like this board predicted in the spring....errr...well it predicted about the opposite but anyways....

Moral - Get yourself some PLAYS. Don't matter who the captain of the ship is, don't matter righty/lefty/fasty/slowy blah, blah blah.

Get yourself some PLAYAS, get yourself some WINS.

The way the game always has, and always will work.

I understanding your opinion of managers. Don't agree with it 100%.

To each their own and all that.

But please...do you think the Cards are up 3-1 in this NLCS with Manny Acta at the helm? Or Eric Wedge?

They may not be significant, but they matter. A good one might not help PLAYAS, but a bad one can certainly detract from the performance of those PLAYAS.

by **motherscratcher** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:41 am

Bigfist wrote:Well, if you go back to the preseason prediction thread, most people put the Tigers in the playoffs, and I and Cerebral Down Time actually had the Tigers winning the World Series. No one had St. Louis winning it, although many people had them in the playoffs.

No. That can't be accurate. I quite clearly remember some discussion that Miggy isn't a good defensive 3B which means that everyone thought the Tigers would be terrible and the Tribe would have an easy ride on the backs of our ground ball pitchers inducing every batter to ground out to Hannahan.

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