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Francona Named Indians Manager

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Francona Named Indians Manager

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:46 pm

Where there's smoke there's fire. Per Hoynse, there is a brewing love affair between the FO and Terry. With Alomar remaining as bench coach. This would be pretty much my ideal situation, but only if Sandy is willing to wait the 3-5 years it will take until the next collapse and gets his shot at the helm.

If the FO plays it's cards right (trading Droobs, Choo, Justin, CPerez, and anyone else with value - and notice how they are asking for season ticket re-up's early this year) we could set ourselves up with a nice wave of talent to accompany Santana, Kipnis, Lindor, Brantley, and Chiz in 3 years. Which must be what they are telling Francona.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:27 pm

Open bar inside the clubhouse, too? And I don't think Sandy would stick around too long, but he maybe he's "loyal".

In all seriousness, sounds good to me. I'm open to the Indians to try damn near anything. I'm even open to the idea to have Vizquel as a player-manager next season in the hopes that it's a repeat of the Speaker and Boudreau days... I did say Hope
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Bigfist » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:46 pm

bookelly wrote:Where there's smoke there's fire. Per Hoynse, there is a brewing love affair between the FO and Terry. With Alomar remaining as bench coach. This would be pretty much my ideal situation, but only if Sandy is willing to wait the 3-5 years it will take until the next collapse and gets his shot at the helm.

If the FO plays it's cards right (trading Droobs, Choo, Justin, CPerez, and anyone else with value - and notice how they are asking for season ticket re-up's early this year) we could set ourselves up with a nice wave of talent to accompany Santana, Kipnis, Lindor, Brantley, and Chiz in 3 years. Which must be what they are telling Francona.


I thought the trades of CC, Lee, and Victor were supposed to set us up for the next wave of contention? If it did not happen when those three were traded, why should it happen with lesser talent traded? At least Francona has to be wondering about that.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:21 am

Bigfist wrote:
bookelly wrote:Where there's smoke there's fire. Per Hoynse, there is a brewing love affair between the FO and Terry. With Alomar remaining as bench coach. This would be pretty much my ideal situation, but only if Sandy is willing to wait the 3-5 years it will take until the next collapse and gets his shot at the helm.

If the FO plays it's cards right (trading Droobs, Choo, Justin, CPerez, and anyone else with value - and notice how they are asking for season ticket re-up's early this year) we could set ourselves up with a nice wave of talent to accompany Santana, Kipnis, Lindor, Brantley, and Chiz in 3 years. Which must be what they are telling Francona.


I thought the trades of CC, Lee, and Victor were supposed to set us up for the next wave of contention? If it did not happen when those three were traded, why should it happen with lesser talent traded? At least Francona has to be wondering about that.


If they do trade away Droob's, Choo. etc...they're gonna have to get multiple prospects at the AA and AAA levels. I would expect at least 2 players per Indian traded, multiple arms, and guys who are high up on the charts. Hopefully they can find a RH bat with power, and several starters. Realistically, we need a 1B, and two corner OF's, and 3 Starters. I'm sure we can get 6 players for the group of 4 I mentioned above.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby jerryroche » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:40 am

bookelly wrote:I'm sure we can get 6 players for the group of 4 I mentioned above.

The FO couldn't get even two "players" out of deals for two Cy Young winners. Based on their past history of judging talent and trade acumen, what makes you think they won't come up with six cadavers this time?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby 1Perry » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:47 am

The only way I do it if I'm Francona is if I get to make the trades.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:50 am

I'm amazed that all of you guys can lament the trades of this front office, and demand very high returns for trades of Choo and Cabrera, while not even mentioning the trades that brought those two guys to Cleveland in the first place.

Actually, I'm not.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:12 am

::doh::

Somebody give me a reason a guy accustomed to $200m payrolls, big deadline deals and WS titles would have any interest in this gig.

Use your heads.

If he's taking this job it's because his rep has been obliterated in baseball's inner sanctum because of what ended up being the Red Sox situation and he's looking to repair it as a good soldier for two years.

Honestly, too many of you are glossed by shiny shit.

It ain't gonna happen. You shouldn't want it too happen.

And let me know when you guys who made fun of the Sox clubhouse falling apart and Francona's hand in it remember it's the same guy you're drooling over now.

Christ sake. Fans here deserve the embarrassment their teams give them.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:27 am

peeker643 wrote:::doh::

Somebody give me a reason a guy accustomed to $200m payrolls, big deadline deals and WS titles would have any interest in this gig.

Use your heads.

If he's taking this job it's because his rep has been obliterated in baseball's inner sanctum because of what ended up being the Red Sox situation and he's looking to repair it as a good soldier for two years.

Honestly, too many of you are glossed by shiny shit.

It ain't gonna happen. You shouldn't want it too happen.

And let me know when you guys who made fun of the Sox clubhouse falling apart and Francona's hand in it remember it's the same guy you're drooling over now.

Christ sake. Fans here deserve the embarrassment their teams give them.


Surely you aren't talking about the same fans that laughed at that "fat ass" Miggy Cabrera playing third for Detroit while championing the fact the Tribe had Jack Hanahan at the hot corner to provide the excellent defense needed for our "extreme ground ball staff" - presumably lead by Fausto and Derek Lowe.

And book....shake yourself. What they have to offer Francona, no matter how they spin it, is about the biggest sack of shit in the league. Which leaves you with two results; 1. No way in holy hell he comes or 2. He falls for it, making him about the stupidest GD guy on the planet - at least in regard to baseball talent evaluation.

Again, you are getting young - and considered by most to be not ready or desperate - a vet that will be making his last stop.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:12 pm

peeker643 wrote:::doh::

Somebody give me a reason a guy accustomed to $200m payrolls, big deadline deals and WS titles would have any interest in this gig.

Use your heads.

If he's taking this job it's because his rep has been obliterated in baseball's inner sanctum because of what ended up being the Red Sox situation and he's looking to repair it as a good soldier for two years.

Honestly, too many of you are glossed by shiny shit.

It ain't gonna happen. You shouldn't want it too happen.

And let me know when you guys who made fun of the Sox clubhouse falling apart and Francona's hand in it remember it's the same guy you're drooling over now.

Christ sake. Fans here deserve the embarrassment their teams give them.


This.

Every single word of it.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Bigfist » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:25 pm

Well, to be honest, except for Terry Pluto, I am not sure too many people really want Francona as the new manager. Actually, most don't really care who it is. But I would think most want a real GM with experience...not Antonetti. But that looks like it is not going to happen.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:36 pm

Bigfist wrote:Well, to be honest, except for Terry Pluto, I am not sure too many people really want Francona as the new manager. Actually, most don't really care who it is. But I would think most want a real GM with experience...not Antonetti. But that looks like it is not going to happen.


Agreed.

The problem is systemic and starts from the very, VERY top.

As plenty, including myself, have offered in the last couple weeks, replacing the windshield wipers doesn't do shit when the engine is blown.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Bigfist » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:02 pm

You know, Peeker, this really is starting to resemble the Indians of our youth. Remember the owner Vernon Stouffer, then Nick Mileti? Guys with no money and hired GMs like Gabe Paul who would tell such whoppers to the fans that no one with half a brain would believe..things like "well, we got four players for one..what is not to like about a trade like that?" Not one time mentioning the quality of the players involved.

I sense we are entering a very dark age in Indians baseball. A stage where decisions are made on a shoe string budget, and lots of double talk from the front office and management, with players who cannot play. Why on earth would a Francona (not that I am all that crazy about him) walk into such a situation like that is beyond me, unless it is a Peeker says..that he needs to redeem himself around the league.

What in the world is Pluto thinking?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:51 pm

Bigfist wrote:You know, Peeker, this really is starting to resemble the Indians of our youth. Remember the owner Vernon Stouffer, then Nick Mileti? Guys with no money and hired GMs like Gabe Paul who would tell such whoppers to the fans that no one with half a brain would believe..things like "well, we got four players for one..what is not to like about a trade like that?" Not one time mentioning the quality of the players involved.

I sense we are entering a very dark age in Indians baseball. A stage where decisions are made on a shoe string budget, and lots of double talk from the front office and management, with players who cannot play. Why on earth would a Francona (not that I am all that crazy about him) walk into such a situation like that is beyond me, unless it is a Peeker says..that he needs to redeem himself around the league.

What in the world is Pluto thinking?


As we get further away from the 90's I fear it gets worse. That era regenerated a beaten down fan base and is still the cause of whatever cries for accountability exist.

The other issue is I'm not sure the game hasn't changed so much in terms of money and revenue that a franchise can go 20-25 dark years like those you allude to without the team being bought and moved. Baseball owners are each engaged in billion dollar business. Usually with their own holdings AND with their team. They don't play for millions in profits. The Dolans do and seem content with it because, to them (and this is relatively speaking) it's a lot of money.

It's not to most other owners. When apathy abounds and no one is going to an aging ballpark (and the Prog is by new stadium standards older than we probably care to admit at nearly 20) I just wouldn't be surprised if they were sold and moved. In fact, it won't shock me at all if it happens in my lifetime.

Franchises have so much more value than they did when we were in the Gabe Paul days (though I agree 100% with the point) that MLB won't allow a minor league team to play in Cleveland forever.

Someone with an allegiance to this region needs to buy that team and have the money to sit at the high buy-in game that these guys play.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby 1Perry » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:40 pm

Bigfist wrote:You know, Peeker, this really is starting to resemble the Indians of our youth. Remember the owner Vernon Stouffer, then Nick Mileti? Guys with no money and hired GMs like Gabe Paul who would tell such whoppers to the fans that no one with half a brain would believe..things like "well, we got four players for one..what is not to like about a trade like that?" Not one time mentioning the quality of the players involved.

I sense we are entering a very dark age in Indians baseball. A stage where decisions are made on a shoe string budget, and lots of double talk from the front office and management, with players who cannot play. Why on earth would a Francona (not that I am all that crazy about him) walk into such a situation like that is beyond me, unless it is a Peeker says..that he needs to redeem himself around the league.

What in the world is Pluto thinking?


With the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge of what he did after leaving I would argue that it's possible that not a single person could have done a better job at the time given what he had to work with than Gabe Paul.

I will be happy to see if today's front office can do better elsewhere.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:38 pm

leadpipe wrote:
peeker643 wrote:::doh::

Somebody give me a reason a guy accustomed to $200m payrolls, big deadline deals and WS titles would have any interest in this gig.

Use your heads.

If he's taking this job it's because his rep has been obliterated in baseball's inner sanctum because of what ended up being the Red Sox situation and he's looking to repair it as a good soldier for two years.

Honestly, too many of you are glossed by shiny shit.

It ain't gonna happen. You shouldn't want it too happen.

And let me know when you guys who made fun of the Sox clubhouse falling apart and Francona's hand in it remember it's the same guy you're drooling over now.

Christ sake. Fans here deserve the embarrassment their teams give them.


Surely you aren't talking about the same fans that laughed at that "fat ass" Miggy Cabrera playing third for Detroit while championing the fact the Tribe had Jack Hanahan at the hot corner to provide the excellent defense needed for our "extreme ground ball staff" - presumably lead by Fausto and Derek Lowe.

And book....shake yourself. What they have to offer Francona, no matter how they spin it, is about the biggest sack of shit in the league. Which leaves you with two results; 1. No way in holy hell he comes or 2. He falls for it, making him about the stupidest GD guy on the planet - at least in regard to baseball talent evaluation.

Again, you are getting young - and considered by most to be not ready or desperate - a vet that will be making his last stop.


You're correct. Looks like I need to lay off the bath salts. But honestly, I'm just clinging to any crack of light through the door. The only real hope is a change of ownership...
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Re: Francona

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:27 pm

peeker643 wrote:Someone with an allegiance to this region needs to buy that team and have the money to sit at the high buy-in game that these guys play.


The Dolans have to be willing to sell. At this point, whether it's ego or just the fact that they're fans and Clevelanders, they haven't shown a willingness to sell majority ownership. They want a minority owner, but nobody's going to throw their hat in that ring and make minimal gains at best.

Personally, I think that when Larry dies, Paul starts to look for buyers. To me, it's a lot like the situation in Columbus with the Blue Jackets. That team was John H. McConnell's baby. He brought the NHL to Columbus. Now that his son has the team because the elder McConnell died, he's putting less and less into it and will eventually be forced to sell. He's holding on because it was his father's dream. The nostalgia of that will wear off.

Paul will hold onto them for sentimental value for a little while and then the realization that he's not making much money will take hold. That being said, as lifelong Clevelanders, they probably have a list of criteria and there aren't going to be many people from around here with the means and desire to buy the team and keep it here. Frankly, Gilbert and Haslam are the only two contenders I see. And I'm not sure either one would be eager to pick up another large investment.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby jerryroche » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:53 pm

Dolans bought the team for $320 in 1999. They made $30 million last year. Team worth is now $410 million, according to Forbes magazine. For them not to entertain suitors at their ages, they'd have to be the stupidest businessmen on the face of the planet.

And possibilities definitely extend beyond Gilbert and Haslam. There are always multi-millionaires around ready to enter the realm of big-time sports and all the publicity a franchise ownership brings. It's not like an MLB franchise is a losing proposition in the long-term. The key, from the fanview, is finding an owner who would invest more $$$ short-term than the skinflint Dolans have been willing to do. And--oh yeah--willing to keep the team in Cleveburg.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:10 pm

skatingtripods wrote: That being said, as lifelong Clevelanders, they probably have a list of criteria and there aren't going to be many people from around here with the means and desire to buy the team and keep it here. Frankly, Gilbert and Haslam are the only two contenders I see. And I'm not sure either one would be eager to pick up another large investment.


Might be true.

But while I'd prefer a Clevelander have the keys to the Tribe it should be noted that both Haslam and Gilbert are from somewhere other than Cleveland too. ANd they appear to be taking steps to put down roots and serve the area while their pockets are lined and their personal welath grows.

If a 'foreign' owner would come in and find money-making potential that is alluring and that would bind them to the area I'd be fine with that.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby pup » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:11 pm

Are a majority of owners local?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:If a 'foreign' owner would come in and find money-making potential that is alluring and that would bind them to the area I'd be fine with that.


I'd be fine with that too. I just want somebody with the pockets to keep us competitive.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:10 pm

Peeker, What will come first- the Tribe moving, or the leveling of the playing field with a salary cap? A cap would at least cause many fans to have some hope. I don't care as much about revenue sharing. Just make it tough to stack a team. And make mistake signings tough to overcome- not just for midwest markets, but for every team.

Back in '94, I wanted them to stay away until they got a cap put in place. I think the purpose of that stoppage was to measure and compare genitalia, and that's it.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:11 pm

NT
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:55 pm

peeker643 wrote:If he's taking this job it's because his rep has been obliterated in baseball's inner sanctum because of what ended up being the Red Sox situation and he's looking to repair it as a good soldier for two years.


If his rep is that bad then I don't see how coming in to manage the Indians helps it. Unless he wins...

I don't really care how his career ended in Boston. He still came out with 2 rings. Not saying it would happen here but I think he would help our image nationally and among other players in the league.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby swerb » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:56 pm

I don't think Francona's rep is ruined. Damaged a little but not ruined. I think he ends up getting another marquee job in the next 3-4 years. That was a team of assholes in Boston, all vets, and things got away from him. And he did win two rings.

As far as him coming here, once he gets a little deeper into the interview process, I think he'll really realize what he'd be up against here, and the whole "Shapiro and Antonetti are great guys thing" would lose a little of its luster.

Like Lead Pipe said, if he takes this job its for one of two reasons. Stepping stone. Or he's a delusional idiot. Either way, not good.

Maybe he'll demand the Dolans spend some $ and they'll cave? A girl can dream, can't she?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:08 pm

I think the "two rings" when the team hadn't managed dick for a hundred years is what's going to sell Francona to a veteran team. I can't believe he's even interviewing for this job; his resume shows an ability to manage a contender and get the best out of me-first athletes, not mentor and grow young talent.

Im with the above, I see no reason why he'd even be interested in this job. Should be Alomar's to take, and he's welcome to it. Never seen such a marginal group of talent...or wait, there was my whole life sans the golden years. At least then we had some fun with Cory Snyder and Joe Carter.

Sans ownership change or a salary cap, this fan base is going to continue to be wholly apathetic, and will stay exactly where it is until Dolan dies.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby jerryroche » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:33 pm

Best thing that could happen to Sandy Jr. is for the FO to offer the job to Francona, and he take it.

If Sandy took the job, his reputation would be shot after two years managing this club--even though he might be good for attendance. Meanwhile, Francona's rep can handle a couple losing seasons.

It's pretty well known that Sandy is major league managerial material. If I were him, I'd start looking elsewhere, lickety-split. His destiny lies elsewhere.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:14 pm

googleeph2 wrote:Peeker, What will come first- the Tribe moving, or the leveling of the playing field with a salary cap? A cap would at least cause many fans to have some hope. I don't care as much about revenue sharing. Just make it tough to stack a team. And make mistake signings tough to overcome- not just for midwest markets, but for every team.

Back in '94, I wanted them to stay away until they got a cap put in place. I think the purpose of that stoppage was to measure and compare genitalia, and that's it.



I think too many teams make far too much money, as does MLB itself, to level the playing field. They'll raze the least profitable franchises before they share the wealth, IMO.

That's part of what a guy like Francona hasn't had to deal with: in Boston you outspend your mistakes. In Cleveland those mistakes play 35 games a year for 4 years as your DH.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:20 pm

peeker643 wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:Peeker, What will come first- the Tribe moving, or the leveling of the playing field with a salary cap? A cap would at least cause many fans to have some hope. I don't care as much about revenue sharing. Just make it tough to stack a team. And make mistake signings tough to overcome- not just for midwest markets, but for every team.

Back in '94, I wanted them to stay away until they got a cap put in place. I think the purpose of that stoppage was to measure and compare genitalia, and that's it.



I think too many teams make far too much money, as does MLB itself, to level the playing field. They'll raze the least profitable franchises before they share the wealth, IMO.

That's part of what a guy like Francona hasn't had to deal with: in Boston you outspend your mistakes. In Cleveland those mistakes play 35 games a year for 4 years as your DH.


And surely Francona knows that just as much as we do, yet his interest seems genuine. So what does he know that we don't know?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:54 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:Peeker, What will come first- the Tribe moving, or the leveling of the playing field with a salary cap? A cap would at least cause many fans to have some hope. I don't care as much about revenue sharing. Just make it tough to stack a team. And make mistake signings tough to overcome- not just for midwest markets, but for every team.

Back in '94, I wanted them to stay away until they got a cap put in place. I think the purpose of that stoppage was to measure and compare genitalia, and that's it.



I think too many teams make far too much money, as does MLB itself, to level the playing field. They'll raze the least profitable franchises before they share the wealth, IMO.

That's part of what a guy like Francona hasn't had to deal with: in Boston you outspend your mistakes. In Cleveland those mistakes play 35 games a year for 4 years as your DH.


And surely Francona knows that just as much as we do, yet his interest seems genuine. So what does he know that we don't know?


That he loves being around the game like all lifers do and this is a job that's open.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:20 pm

Isn't there some $ coming off the books that won't be counterbalanced with salary increases- especially if some vets are traded? Like some sort of baseball-type of peace dividend.

That's what I keep telling myself. And that Terry Francona would have a hand in spending it as the next wave of ballplayers arrives in 3 yrs. And that he's interviewing us- not the other way around. We're getting ready to sell him on our plan to act like a major league baseball team.

Nah.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:17 am

peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:Peeker, What will come first- the Tribe moving, or the leveling of the playing field with a salary cap? A cap would at least cause many fans to have some hope. I don't care as much about revenue sharing. Just make it tough to stack a team. And make mistake signings tough to overcome- not just for midwest markets, but for every team.

Back in '94, I wanted them to stay away until they got a cap put in place. I think the purpose of that stoppage was to measure and compare genitalia, and that's it.



I think too many teams make far too much money, as does MLB itself, to level the playing field. They'll raze the least profitable franchises before they share the wealth, IMO.

That's part of what a guy like Francona hasn't had to deal with: in Boston you outspend your mistakes. In Cleveland those mistakes play 35 games a year for 4 years as your DH.



And surely Francona knows that just as much as we do, yet his interest seems genuine. So what does he know that we don't know?


That he loves being around the game like all lifers do and this is a job that's open.


He has already proven himself. Getting paid big jack to make out a line-up card and be around the game he loves, why not? Sure its a challenge & he will be working with knit-wits but he probably thinks he would be doing a good deed by infusing a little bit of competency or rational thought into the whole Shap/Ant/Dolan Vortex. It will only be for a few years as you have noted.....he is only human.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:48 am

pod2dawg wrote:He has already proven himself. Getting paid big jack to make out a line-up card and be around the game he loves, why not? Sure its a challenge & he will be working with knit-wits but he probably thinks he would be doing a good deed by infusing a little bit of competency or rational thought into the whole Shap/Ant/Dolan Vortex. It will only be for a few years as you have noted.....he is only human.


What he's proven is he can win with a $210million dollar payroll and a team that went out and got whatever was needed at the trade deadline, and that he's willing to let the inmates run the asylum.

Yes, he won two titles with a made team. Let me know when he took shit and turned it into shinola or when he developed young players into a 100 game winners. Because you need that guy. Not the guy the vets all love.

YMMV
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Re: Francona

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:02 am

Good point(s), but those before him had the same support and failed.

And you may have nailed it, taking the Tribe job would give him the opportunity to show he can turn shit into shinola and develop some young players.

And I'm not sure Sandy has shown anything managerial ?

By the way how is the ankle?
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Re: Francona

Unread postby 1Perry » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:16 am

No way Francona says the right things to get hired.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:49 am

pod2dawg wrote:Good point(s), but those before him had the same support and failed.

And you may have nailed it, taking the Tribe job would give him the opportunity to show he can turn shit into shinola and develop some young players.

And I'm not sure Sandy has shown anything managerial ?

By the way how is the ankle?


To an extent they did. They didn't have a front office committed to using all that money to put the best MLB team on the field AND start to stockpile valuable commodities int he minor leagues that could be put into a lineup (Pedroia) or dealt for deadline needs or All Star talent (Masterson, etc). They started playing smarter in the front office. Francona obviously played a role.


Sandy's a crap-shoot, no doubt. But that fits how the Indians operate. I'm convinced that the Barnum family just want people in the tent. Not an actual show to watch.

Ankle is what it is. Completely useless but not completely effed. Just need to wear the brace/splint more often and for more activities. Never even considered needing it while hunting til I was on tthe ground realizing that fields and forests aren't level. So I just wear it til it completely fails and go that route.

Still quicker and faster than most of the 55-60 yr olds I play racquetball against. They may be sponsored and play for money, bu they're still older ;-) ;) :wink:

And honestly, losing the 25lbs helped a lot. Far less stress on all the joints but noticably affects how the ankle feels.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:46 am

I really can't imagine that this job isn't Alomar's to lose. If they weren't serious about him being the next manager, why not just wait until the end of the year and fire Acta. Now if you opt to go with Francona, it's almost as if you've got to 'fire' Alomar, even if the job was advertised as interim. Not many guys would be as good a sports as Joel Skinner was when he got passed over for Wedge so many years back. Francona gets the job, Cleveland will probably lose Alomar. Why would Francona want his potential replacement sitting next to him in the dugout?

I also don't think than taking this job would be a stepping stone for Francona. If he manages to squeeze something out of this team and win, he's not going anywhere. If he sticks around for 3-4 years of losing and gets fired, he's lost 3-4 years and his reputation isn't really any better. The only reason for Francona to take this job if it is offered is that he truly wants to manage the Indians. This won't be the only job opening in the off season.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:59 am

For Francona to have time to do anything, the Indians have to sign him to a 4-5 year deal. That's an eternity in manager time. They've also fired each of their last two managers with a year left on their contracts.

Everyone says that it's Francona's job to lose. I hope that's not the case. I'm not interested in him. He won with a lot of talent already in town and an owner with deep pockets. He has neither in Cleveland.

Let Sandy grow alongside the team.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:04 pm

skatingtripods wrote:For Francona to have time to do anything, the Indians have to sign him to a 4-5 year deal. That's an eternity in manager time. They've also fired each of their last two managers with a year left on their contracts.

Everyone says that it's Francona's job to lose. I hope that's not the case. I'm not interested in him. He won with a lot of talent already in town and an owner with deep pockets. He has neither in Cleveland.

Let Sandy grow alongside the team.


I understand the concerns about the different type of team/market/situation between Cleveland and Boston. But Francona is a legitimate Big League Manager who is not Bobby Valentine.

I'd be happy to have him. Having success in Boston obviously doesn't guarantee success in Cleveland, but it in no way precludes it either. I see no reason to think he CAN'T do the job based on his Boston tenure. I mean, that would be silly.

At the same time I'd be more than happy with Alomar as well. I think he'd do a great job.

And I still have my fingers crossed for Fassano to throw his hat in the ring. :thumb up:
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:08 pm

Apparently Hoynes reported that Albert Belle contacted Shapiro about the manager position.

That would be awesome. Holy shitburgers that would be awesome.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:13 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Apparently Hoynes reported that Albert Belle contacted Shapiro about the manager position.

That would be awesome. Holy shitburgers that would be awesome.


Meh...just Albert having some fun. Like when I call the Vatican and apply for the Pope position whenever it pops open.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:41 pm

Here's how I imagine that went:

Phone Rings:

Shap: Hello?
Belle: Hey mike, it's Albert Belle.
Shap: Oh Hey Al, what can I do for you?
Belle: I'd like to be considered for manager of the Indians.
Shap: Hahahaha, that never gets old. Really, is there something I can help you with?
Belle: Ummm, yeah, just kidding...Is your refrigerator running? hehehehe.
Shap: Ha, that's a good one Al, gotta run.
Belle: This is your Uncle Billy. I need a ride home from the airport. Click
Shap: (Hangs up phone) That Albert, what a cut-up.

Shap: Hey Chris.
Antonetti: Yeah?
Shap: I need you to run to the airport to pick up my Uncle Billy.

Fin
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Fin


Thank God, I thought that terrible bit would never end.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:55 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Fin


Thank God, I thought that terrible bit would never end.


It' kind of felt that way when I was writing it.

However, it's not to shabby for a rush job between extractions. It's like the MVP race, you have to consider all facets and factors.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:01 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Fin


Thank God, I thought that terrible bit would never end.


It' kind of felt that way when I was writing it.

However, it's not to shabby for a rush job between extractions. It's like the MVP race, you have to consider all facets and factors.


Pay him no mind, mother. He's getting closer each day to the hatching of his spawn and he's irritable.

Rightly so. Life as he knows it changes forever that very second.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:31 pm

Nick Camino ‏@CaminoTribe
#Indians closer Chris Perez said "most of the problems walked out the door last week." Obviously meaning Acta firing.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:35 pm

And the next one will when they trade him.

You don't have to love your boss, but you do have to work hard, it's called being a professional. If the players quit on Acta, they need to be replaced as well.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:38 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Nick Camino ‏@CaminoTribe
#Indians closer Chris Perez said "most of the problems walked out the door last week." Obviously meaning Acta firing.


What a douche.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:37 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Nick Camino ‏@CaminoTribe
#Indians closer Chris Perez said "most of the problems walked out the door last week." Obviously meaning Acta firing.


What a douche.


Yup, classy.
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Re: Francona

Unread postby pup » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:39 pm

WAR Chris Perez

Do I mean the stat or the echoing of his point? Hmmmm.
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