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The Rub

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The Rub

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:38 pm

SO, here's how I see it. The Brown's are 0-4. Assuming it takes 10 wins to make the playoffs, the Browns have to go 10-2 in their remaining 12 games (9-3 to narrowly sneak in in an odd year). That obviously is not going to happen.

So, every win from here on out makes the Browns worse. The best case scenario is that 2 things happen. 1. Weeden continues to improve and it becomes clear that he is a viable NFL QB and that position is filled, at least for the foreseeable future. 2. Either Matt Barkley or Geno Smith completely lights the world on fire for the rest of the college season staking their claim as a must have #1 pick.

If that happens, the Browns can walk away from the 2013 draft with the "St Louis Deal Part Deux". The Browns with an NFL QB, a top RB, a strong Defensive Line, a top 5 CB, an Offensive Line featuring 3 top draft picks, and a plethora of first round picks going forward...yeah, that would be OK with me.

HOWEVER, I don't see any way that they can continue to lose while at the same time Weeden is proving himself a viable NFL QB. Which means we'd probably end up with Barkley and no extra picks.

And therein lies the rub, gentlemen.

So, what should I be hoping for?
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:41 pm

motherscratcher wrote:SO, here's how I see it. The Brown's are 0-4. Assuming it takes 10 wins to make the playoffs, the Browns have to go 10-2 in their remaining 12 games (9-3 to narrowly sneak in in an odd year). That obviously is not going to happen.

So, every win from here on out makes the Browns worse. The best case scenario is that 2 things happen. 1. Weeden continues to improve and it becomes clear that he is a viable NFL QB and that position is filled, at least for the foreseeable future. 2. Either Matt Barkley or Geno Smith completely lights the world on fire for the rest of the college season staking their claim as a must have #1 pick.

If that happens, the Browns can walk away from the 2013 draft with the "St Louis Deal Part Deux". The Browns with an NFL QB, a top RB, a strong Defensive Line, a top 5 CB, an Offensive Line featuring 3 top draft picks, and a plethora of first round picks going forward...yeah, that would be OK with me.

HOWEVER, I don't see any way that they can continue to lose while at the same time Weeden is proving himself a viable NFL QB. Which means we'd probably end up with Barkley and no extra picks.

And therein lies the rub, gentlemen.

So, what should I be hoping for?


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Re: The Rub

Unread postby jerryroche » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Going 4-8 or 5-7 the rest of the way would mean some positive growth for Weeden, not to mention the rest of the youngsters. It would also just about guarantee the Browns a top 10 pick in the next draft. That would probably be best-case scenario. It's also highly unlikely--but we can hope.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:45 pm

The thought of another Rookie QB frightens me. I think Weeden's taking criticism and developing quite well. And the fact that he's older than shit, I think, contributes to this positive development.

The Browns do have the core there, as you mentioned.

I see three possible wins through the rest of the season. We all know they're capable of pulling wins out their ass like they've done so many times before. That being said, stick with Weeden, and use our high picks on trades or whatever we need most.

But honestly, you gotta realize that there's gonna be a completely different set of people calling the shots; who knows what they're gonna wanna do.

EDIT: My prediction on 3 possible wins? Bengals, Raiders, and Chiefs.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:02 pm

I'm down for getting the lowest pick possible and trading out of it. Heckert (whom it seems has earned some respect from the new owner) is likely to stay it seems. So get as many picks as possible for the new Head Coach.

In other words...lose. But look good doing it.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:08 am

LakeErieWarriors wrote:The thought of another Rookie QB frightens me. I think Weeden's taking criticism and developing quite well. And the fact that he's older than shit, I think, contributes to this positive development.

The Browns do have the core there, as you mentioned.

I see three possible wins through the rest of the season. We all know they're capable of pulling wins out their ass like they've done so many times before. That being said, stick with Weeden, and use our high picks on trades or whatever we need most.

But honestly, you gotta realize that there's gonna be a completely different set of people calling the shots; who knows what they're gonna wanna do.

EDIT: My prediction on 3 possible wins? Bengals, Raiders, and Chiefs.


Basically, this. Every week you should be rooting for distinct improvement from Weeden and Richardson. You need to see that those two are capable of being above average NFL players at their positions. Means some stability, and a pick being used at a different position of need. (LB, WR, DE, S)

Weeden being shit means another gamble potentially next year, and without the lust worthy candidate, it means possibly wasting a number 1 on another dud. Without a second (Gordon) that means you're not improving one of those spots above until the third, where its somewhat of a crapshoot.

Overall, Weeden's development/competence far overrides Wins/Losses.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby yogi » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:52 am

At some point the young talented rookies and 2nd year youths on the team will have to learn how to win in the NFL.

That should happen last 8-10 games this year.

Fortunately, at this point even a .500 finish, would translate to a 6-10 record and right in the mix for a Top 10 pick.

The kids develop and learn to win, we add a top 10 talent next year and Heckert will be given a green light to add quality Free Agents to shore up weak areas.

I think we should just sit back, enjoy the ride that is heading for once in the right direction and root for wins. :woot: :woot:
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:08 am

Here is the rub: Most of the NFL sucks this year. Shit football is being played at a far higher clip than anything resemble good football. If the Browns can't close out five wins in this shit version of the league they are in a world of trouble. I cannot for the life of me remember this much bad play characterizing every, single damn week.

It's just UGLY out there. Pretty much the only team I've watched that has played solid in every facet of the game is the Texans. That's it... one damn team.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:53 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
So, what should I be hoping for?


Mother you nailed the "rub".

Heart says, hope Weeds continues improvement and develops some wheels or pocket presence and we win 4 games get 2nd or third pick. We find a suitor, trade down and fill 2-3 of the gaping holes.

Brain says. Weeds doesn't quite cut it. IMHO Geno Smith will. Yep, Rams part II. This would set us back a year but we'd be rolling down the road.

I hope for the first case scenario, but either way we'll need some FA's to buy into the Pilot Empire. :pop:
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:11 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
So, what should I be hoping for?


I think you should be hoping to end the sustained culture of losing which has been instilled since 1999. Drafting #1 overall or #10 is not as important as it is to give the young guys a taste of success.

Also, hard to say what the FO will look like next March. I would prefer the Browns draft slot is high enough to get an impact player, but not so high that the new FO over analyzes and reaches (again) to fill a need.

The perfect storm of Luck and RGIII comes along once every 25 years or so. Could it happen again next year? Anything's possible - but I doubt it.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:28 pm

pod2dawg wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
So, what should I be hoping for?


Mother you nailed the "rub".

Heart says, hope Weeds continues improvement and develops some wheels or pocket presence and we win 4 games get 2nd or third pick. We find a suitor, trade down and fill 2-3 of the gaping holes.

Brain says. Weeds doesn't quite cut it. IMHO Geno Smith will. Yep, Rams part II. This would set us back a year but we'd be rolling down the road.

I hope for the first case scenario, but either way we'll need some FA's to buy into the Pilot Empire. :pop:


I saw a video once, where a team filled 2-3 gaping holes. :bunny:
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:32 pm

motherscratcher wrote:HOWEVER, I don't see any way that they can continue to lose while at the same time Weeden is proving himself a viable NFL QB. Which means we'd probably end up with Barkley and no extra picks.


If they were to take Barkley, might as well write off the Browns altogether since that means that Haslam hired a guy that made a pick like that, which makes Haslam Randy Lerner 2.0.

And if that's the case, the renovation Haslam should make is to lop off the north end of the stadium so the 15,000 people that go to the games would at least have a nice view of the lake.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby scott » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:46 pm

This team has more talent than the Browns have had in a long time. The defense is doing a lot of things well save a few baffling plays where no one can make an open field tackle. The offense is learning on the field every week.

I'm hoping to see a team that wins 4 or 5 of their last 8 and shows enough that the FO spends on some veterans to fill out the roster and they compete next year.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:52 pm

There are no QB's coming out that will be better than Weeden

...and fuck trading down...

bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa

Fill needs via FA
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:There are no QB's coming out that will be better than Weeden

...and fuck trading down...

bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa

Fill needs via FA


I agree fuck trading down, but especially with no 2nd rounder next year, if someone is dumb enough to offer a trade like Washington did, even you'd have to take that FMB.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:HOWEVER, I don't see any way that they can continue to lose while at the same time Weeden is proving himself a viable NFL QB. Which means we'd probably end up with Barkley and no extra picks.


If they were to take Barkley, might as well write off the Browns altogether since that means that Haslam hired a guy that made a pick like that, which makes Haslam Randy Lerner 2.0.

And if that's the case, the renovation Haslam should make is to lop off the north end of the stadium so the 15,000 people that go to the games would at least have a nice view of the lake.


Agree with that. It's the doomsday scenario.

I guess after a decade of this shit it's hard not to go into "draft pick mode" and lament every meaningless win.

I just have to remind myself that improvement from the core players resulting in wins is more important than some spotsin the draft.

I just can't help thinking what position we'd be in if the Browns were able to pull off just a few extra losses last year. You know they had the talent to do it.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:32 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:There are no QB's coming out that will be better than Weeden

...and fuck trading down...

bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa

Fill needs via FA


I agree fuck trading down, but especially with no 2nd rounder next year, if someone is dumb enough to offer a trade like Washington did, even you'd have to take that FMB.


There is no one in this draft worth passing up three 1sts and a 2nd for. If someone offers the Washington package, you take it.

Conversely, there is no one in this draft that teams will offer a Washington package for, so the point will be moot.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:17 pm

I hope it's entirely too soon to judge that, Hiko.

Hope to god it isn't another 2005 or 2006. Horrible 1st rounds.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:47 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:I hope it's entirely too soon to judge that, Hiko.

Hope to god it isn't another 2005 or 2006. Horrible 1st rounds.


Someone will climb, and the top spots are worth more now that the huge contract isn't attached to them. But QB is the only position that teams would pay that premium for, and I don't think there are any QB's that will garner big time trade value.

I want one of them there premium pass rushers anyway, so trading down would not be the best idea unless they got offered the farm.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:34 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:There are no QB's coming out that will be better than Weeden

...and fuck trading down...

bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa

Fill needs via FA


I agree fuck trading down, but especially with no 2nd rounder next year, if someone is dumb enough to offer a trade like Washington did, even you'd have to take that FMB.


For who?

Matt McGloin?

:lmfao:
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Season full of moral victories and the #1 draft choice.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:02 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:There are no QB's coming out that will be better than Weeden

...and fuck trading down...

bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa
bpa

Fill needs via FA


I agree fuck trading down, but especially with no 2nd rounder next year, if someone is dumb enough to offer a trade like Washington did, even you'd have to take that FMB.


I don't think the Washington trade was dumb - if you're sure you got your man.

That position is THAT important. And if RG3 is a star, he's worth waaaaay more than the picks they gave up.

That being said, nobody's gonna be sure about the QB's coming out this year, so you're not gonna get that offer.
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Re: The Rub

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:48 pm

Oh yeah, I worded that wrong. I was all in on RG3. I wish we were the "dumb" team to make that trade.

What I meant was it would be dumb for a team to make a similar trade for a guy like Barkley.
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