Manny Fired. Sandy acting manager.

[1Perry]

According to Underwood. I think it's clear what's everyones opinion of this is.

[jfiling]

Just heard on WKNR. Great move.

[TCBinaflash]

Now we can get back to winning.

[peeker643]

Now we can get back to winning.

Amen. Should make Carrera and Hannahan much better and should be just what's needed to fix Ubaldo and Masterson.

Hope it truly doesn't ruin Pestano and Perez though.

[andrew6586]

My friend told me they are talking with Francona. No freaking way it happens. Why would he go to a cheap owner, less than average major league talent and nothing in the minors?

He wouldn't and won't.

Which is "Words from Friends" is as dumb as "Words with Friends".

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Again it doesnt matter who they get. Its sad that Manny has to take for the fall for an entire organizations mistakes.

"Managerial changes are never easy or taken lightly, but as we approached the end of the season and turned our attention to assessing the year, we determined a change was necessary,” GM Chris Antonetti said in a statement.

Then you get this quote from the guy who should be fired, if you want to place blame on somebody.

[Noodle]

With this historic collapse, does this surprise anyone?

At least we may get to see what Sandy can do long term.

[motherscratcher]

Such a bummer that Ubaldo twisted his ankle and is done for the season. It'd be nice to know how he responds to the news.

Figures, just our luck. At least the new manager will have a whole winter to turn him back into June 2010 Ubaldo.

[WiscTribeFan]

Unless he's a sorcerer, what's Alomar going to do differently than Acta?

It's going to be really hard for them to have to fire him in a few years.

[1Perry]

Unless he's a sorcerer, what's Alomar going to do differently than Acta?

It's going to be really hard for them to have to fire him in a few years.

It's not a lock IMO that he will get the position. He might want an extra $5000 over a Jim Riggleman or something.

[andrew6586]

What's ridiculous is that management even managed to screw this up. If you wanted to get a look at how Alomar would handle this team them Acta should have been fired a month ago. Don't give a guy 6 freaking games to prove himself. How the hell did the FO fuck this up too?

[cozmeesah]

Yeah, I gotta say this isn't surprising at all, but the timing is questionable. And they say they wanted to do it now as opposed to a week from now "out of respect." Heh? How is that?

You do it a month sooner or you wait a fucking week. Why now? It's stupid.

[skatingtripods]

The Astros just hired Bo Porter, the Nats 3B coach, to be their manager. My thought is that the Indians want to reach out to other bench coaches, 3B coaches, minor league managers, etc., before the other openings that are rumored (Miami, Detroit, Pittsburgh) come to pass.

Castrovince's tweet is probably right. Hard to see them bypassing Alomar.

I know some people say the manager doesn't matter. I think it does, if your talent is up to par. Until our talent gets up to a level where it can be competitive, then, no, the manager doesn't matter.

Can't wait to see Sandy in the dugout, Kenny as 1B coach, and Nagy as the pitching coach. Maybe Paul Assenmacher as the bullpen coach. Secret to success right there.

Hell, the only two World Series that the Indians have ever won, they had a player-manager. That's what we need. A player-manager.

[WiscTribeFan]

Sandy as the acting manager is ironic, considering most of the team hasn't been acting like professional baseball players most of this season.

[andrew6586]

Sandy as the acting manager is ironic, considering most of the team hasn't been acting like professional baseball players most of this season.

Winner.

[peeker643]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

[skatingtripods]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

[Commodore Perry]

Odd timing with only a few games left in the season.

[peeker643]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

Kotchman and Duncan can crush that -1.1 themselves

[skatingtripods]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

Kotchman and Duncan can crush that -1.1 themselves

Combined -1.6. You're right.

But your boy Jack Hannahan is worth almost one full win above replacement player.

[WiscTribeFan]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

This season has been the definition of sad reality.

[peeker643]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

Kotchman and Duncan can crush that -1.1 themselves

Combined -1.6. You're right.

But your boy Jack Hannahan is worth almost one full win above replacement player.

He should thank God for April and September. He was dung the rest of the season. And I'm not a big fan of basing anything on September. September is a liar. Ask Shelley Duncan fans

[leadpipe]

Clearly you need to keep a team in first place for longer than 4 months of the season when you're running Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan out there most nights.

The Indians pitching staff is worth -1.1 WAR. Average team with 0.0 WAR would go 51-111.

Offense saved us from losing 110 games. That's the sad reality.

Kotchman and Duncan can crush that -1.1 themselves

Combined -1.6. You're right.

But your boy Jack Hannahan is worth almost one full win above replacement player.

Who the hell is the replacment player, Andy Marte?

Not sure what numbers some of these guys conjure up, but anyone watching Jack Hanahan the last several years would understand there's about a 5 square inch portion of the strike zone he can actually hit a ball hard in.

He stinks.

And he gets hurt.

Anyways, to today's point...can't believe 7 seconds past after this announcement without anyone firing out an "Omar for Base Coach" thread entry.

And Sandy musn't have any other options.

[Bigfist]

Hoynes says Antonetti and Shapiro to return.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... nny_a.html

Color me overjoyed.

[skatingtripods]

Who the hell is the replacment player, Andy Marte?

I don't know. Marte's career WAR was -1.4. Best season was .8 WAR in 2006, when he had a .707 OPS in 50 games.

So, I have no idea what the definition of a replacement player is, in a statistical sense.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Player manager....... that'll sure bring the crowd out.

Just like a catcher with an arm growing out of his ass.

They should just hire some guy who can make the players win.

[1Perry]

Hoynes says Antonetti and Shapiro to return.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... nny_a.html

Color me overjoyed.

So we should save this thread to simply let it repeat every year.

[googleeph2]

I liked Acta. Sorry to see him go. He will be successful, somewhere.
Think other teams hold his record against him, in the context of his situations?

BTW, is there a WAR stat for managers?

When on earth do the contracts for Antonetti and Shapiro expire, for cryin out loud?

Just heard the Indians thought they were in jeopardy of losing Sandy- hence the timing.

[skatingtripods]

I liked Acta. Sorry to see him go. He will be successful, somewhere.
Think other teams hold his record against him, in the context of his situations?

Maybe. When you consider that managers generally don't get fired when they have the talent to win, it's hard for Acta to fall into a great situation. It wouldn't shock me to see him emerge as a leading candidate for the Marlins job when Guillen gets fired.

BTW, is there a WAR stat for managers?

Pretty hard to quantify. I'm wondering how guys like Jonah Keri, Keith Law, Jay Jaffe, and some of the other big MLB media types view managers. I wonder what side of the spectrum they're on.

Just heard the Indians thought they were in jeopardy of losing Sandy- hence the timing.

This makes perfect sense. I wrote in the article you posted about that the Indians pretty much have to give Sandy the job or they're losing him. That appears to be the case.

[pod2dawg]

Sandy wins the russian roulette.............wait or was it Manny?

[Bigfist]

I liked Acta. Sorry to see him go. He will be successful, somewhere.
Think other teams hold his record against him, in the context of his situations?

BTW, is there a WAR stat for managers?

When on earth do the contracts for Antonetti and Shapiro expire, for cryin out loud?

Just heard the Indians thought they were in jeopardy of losing Sandy- hence the timing.

I am very doubtful he will ever manage again at the major league level. Unsuccessful in two gigs, he is not likely to energize any team's fan base. I have no idea if he would be successful with a team with talent, but chances are we will never find out.

[1Perry]

He will get hired as a coach for someone. MLB is nothing if not good at recycling.

[gotribe31]

If Alomar brings back Luis Isaac, they go 6-0 to close out the season. Book it.

[dazindiansfanuk]

It was inevitable that Manny took the fall..... it's a shame because I actually quite like the guy.

The timing makes no sense though..... we're in the midst of a 20-50 stretch so we've known for quite some time this team was shitty and a managerial move was going to happen so, you either do it 6 weeks ago or, if you're going to wait, you do it at the end of the year - what good does it do anyone to do it with 6 games left?

That said, it doesn't do any harm either!

[NH Tribe Fan]

I think Manny is hardly in the top 5 of people to blame for this organization.

1. Shapiro
2. Dolan
3. Antonetti
4. Poor drafting (all involved)
5. Acta

Reality of the situation is the manager can't fire the GM, President and Owner. Those three needed a fall guy.


Best of luck to Manny Acta.

[ole uncle charle]

I miss those days

[Adverb Harry]

Say, I just got home...anything interesting happen today?

In all seriousness, we all pretty much knew this was coming, though most of us see it for what it is...an attempt to shift blame and attempt to show the fans that the team is doing "something." The fact that our interim--and likely permanent--manager going forward is a team favorite from the 90s shows just how slick the front office boys are when it comes to spinning. They've had this idea percolating for the past two years, ready to pull out whenever they felt it necessary to shift attention.

I like Acta. Have since the day he was hired. Other than a lack of temper (at least publically), I had no issues whatsoever with him as manager and continue to support him. Guy did the best he could with what he had, as has been said on here for months. Gotta feel for him, though...with his accumulative record now over six seasons, it'll be a long time before anybody picks him up in a managerial capacity again. Seriously, how do you spin to any fan base the hiring of a guy whose career winning percentage is .418?

I questioned the timing at first, too...they supposedly didn't want to "embarass" him by keeping him around for six more days? Isn't dumping him that close to the end of the season far more embarassing than just waiting till it's all over, or even firing him a month ago?

It all comes down to Alomar, though. Shapiro and Antonetti, if nothing else, know PR, or at least minimizing bad PR. How badly would Joe Fan react to Alomar, a fan favorite from the 90s, being scooped up in the offseason by another team to manage while Acta stays on? The team couldn't risk yet another blow to their credibility, and with the dominoes already beginning to fall in terms of manager movement, they felt they had to do it now. Sad, but it's reality.

That being said, this has got to be their LAST last chance. Seriously, how many can these chucklefucks get?

[bac5665]

My grandfather passed away this summer wanting Shappie to be fired. One of the last conversations I had with him was about how much harm Shap had done to his beloved Tribe and how he needed to go.

I'm genuinely afraid that the team will move before Shapiro is gone from the FO.

[bookelly]

[Adverb Harry]

:gah:

[cozmeesah]

Rumor at LGT is that the clubhouse despised Manny, though the guy couldn't really figure out why they did. A couple of the things mentioned by the player this guy talked to had nothing to do with Manny, they were F.O. issues, yet it seemed as if the unnamed player was using them as reasons they hated Manny. I'd also be surprised if said player wasn't named Chris Perez.

I figure this much... hating your manager is no excuse to play lifeless or flat. They are grown men, professionals, paid to do a job. A lot of people hate their bosses, it's the nature of the business world. But, nonethelesss, you have to do the job you are paid to do. Throwing a hissy fit and not caring about their jobs because they aren't fond of the manager for whatever reason is immature and stupid. A lot of guys would love to be in their position, no matter who the manager.

It's said that only one player contacted Manny after the news came out. I would bet $$$ that player was one of the older guys.

[Spin]

The housecleaning is just beginning.

A guy can dream, can't he?

[googleeph2]

They might not know it, but the Boston Red Sox need to hire Manny Acta.

On the players hating him thing- I can't for the life of me figure out what these players can be complaining about. Not improving the team at the deadline, or last offseason? yes.

But re: Acta- is there any basis for the disenchantment? Who on that club could have a beef with him about playing time? He seems like a straight shooter. Is that not the case? Has Hoynes or anyone ever reported on this- because I missed it.

[cozmeesah]

On the players hating him thing- I can't for the life of me figure out what these players can be complaining about. Not improving the team at the deadline, or last offseason? yes.

But re: Acta- is there any basis for the disenchantment? Who on that club could have a beef with him about playing time? He seems like a straight shooter. Is that not the case? Has Hoynes or anyone ever reported on this- because I missed it.

The guy at LGT says the player told him they didn't feel he stood up for them enough, some of them felt he left Masterson out there too long a few times to get his head beat in, and they don't feel he interacted with him enough in the clubhouse.

But none of that tells me why they would "despise" him. He certainly seems like a likable guy so I find it hard to believe he was an ass to them. The other stuff... as someone said on LGT, maybe he's too mature to be hanging with 20-somethings then and belongs in a FO instead.

It's hard to tell with teams though. A year ago I heard from a source that Grady and Ryan Garko both HATED Eric Wedge when he was here. Yet you'd never have been able to tell that from what we saw/read in the media.

[WiscTribeFan]

The other stuff... as someone said on LGT, maybe he's too mature to be hanging with 20-somethings then and belongs in a FO instead.

Then those players need to be moved. Anyone think Jim Leyland's players think that?

Your manager isn't your buddy, he's your boss.

[cozmeesah]

The other stuff... as someone said on LGT, maybe he's too mature to be hanging with 20-somethings then and belongs in a FO instead.

Then those players need to be moved. Anyone think Jim Leyland's players think that?

Your manager isn't your buddy, he's your boss.

Exactly.

Manny even said as much. He said that he doesn't hang out with the players much because he's their boss, not their bud.

Maybe a big problem with this team is that a lot of the players are a bunch of 5-year-olds and none of the veterans could or would make them grow up. Do we want a group of players who feel sorry for themselves because they think their FO sucks or that play like shit because they hate their manager? I sure don't.

[skatingtripods]

Your manager isn't your buddy, he's your boss.

Bingo.


I've always felt that the team embodies the identity of their manager/coach. I can think of several examples across the NHL where teams with fiery coaches are defensive juggernauts who never take a shift off. Ron Gardenhire and Mike Scioscia allow their teams to be aggressive on the basepaths, so they play hard night in and night out.

Acta seemed so laid back, almost to the point where it looked apathetic. I think that would explain why some of the losing streaks snowballed into lengthy stretches of bad baseball. Talent played a role too, without a doubt. They're playing a lot better in September because some of the guys up here don't know any better. They just want to play hard and make an impression.

It's almost like Peter Gibbons in Office Space when he's talking to the consultants. He works just hard enough not to get fired. The players had no repercussions because there's zero accountability in the front office. Acta tried to instill some behind closed doors and the players apparently rebelled against it.

[pup]

Don't remember the player (Hanastiff maybe?) that got ejected after Manny sat in the dugout and did not argue a call. Beginning. Of. End.

[motherscratcher]

Remember back in June when we were all surprised by this?:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/13/pierzynski-voted-most-hated-player-in-baseball/

Who is the least respected manager?
1. Ozzie Guillen (Marlins), 36%
2. Bobby Valentine (Red Sox), 14%
3. Manny Acta (Indians), 5%

[googleeph2]

Remember back in June when we were all surprised by this?:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/13/pierzynski-voted-most-hated-player-in-baseball/

Who is the least respected manager?
1. Ozzie Guillen (Marlins), 36%
2. Bobby Valentine (Red Sox), 14%
3. Manny Acta (Indians), 5%

Hm. Hey, OT but- I listen to radio baseball, but don't watch much. What is it about Pierzinski that everyone hates? (Also, I knew Tribe fans hated him, but wow, players do too?) Does he whine a lot? Act like it don't stink? I don't get it.

Wow, when Chicago WS had Guillen, they had the Manager/Catcher/Broadcaster trifecta.