What's Haslem's Incentive to Wait?

[peeker643]

Honest question- why would he buy a Macy's store, see that the floors are dirty and the merchandise is crap but wait til year end to clean house and get rid of the people who bought the merchandise and didn't make the store presentable?

Are there salary implications (I can't imagine they're big enough at that point to be huge consideration).

Are there tax implications?

Are the competitive disadvantages to acting quickly and before November (understanding the full-time folks would be hired after the Super Bowl)?

Is it such a lost cause that you just kkep the fools who built this mess until end of season because their future employment somewhere else will at least require them to show up every day and not screw things up worse?

Honestly, with each loss I can't see him waiting until the end of the year. Even it's interim HC and Heckert and Holmgren somehow last through Decemebr I can't see no move being the move he makes.

Maybe it's wishful thinking but this fan base hates this head coach (or, worse, is completely ambivalent toward this head coach) and it would almost shock me if Shurmur saw November.

[rk]

It's weird that you posted this today and not immediately after last week's game.

[peeker643]

It's weird that you posted this today and not immediately after last week's game.

Why?

Because we now have another data point, another loss, another pathetic display of football and coaching and talent on the field?

Did Shurmur make Marvin Lewis look like a bad NFL coach ( bwahhhhhh!!!! see what I did there? Marvin Lewis IS a bad NFL coach )

Did he out-coach, out-improvise, out-prepare, out-execute or out-motivate the Bengals and I simply missed it in seeing the final score?

Oh.... wait....it's because you were buoyed by a less than soul crushing defeat in Cincinnati?

That's cute in a sad and misguided way.

Again, I like your posts and enjoy the discourse. But if you don't understand how each home loss and joyless crowd builds on the last and further erodes the interest (much less passion) of the fan base, well, words are wasted.

Shall I wait til the Giants annihilate them and officially make it 0-5? Would a win over the Bengals (or Ravens...or Giants) actually mean anything in terms of the ShurmurShitShow?

Better yet, why don't you go ahead and tell me when would be best to bring it up, if at all.

It's a legit question. Is there a benefit to waiting? An advantage to acting immediately.

If you don't like the question, you do have the right to stfu and not answer it.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

I thought rk was just pointing out that this was true a week ago too, CMIIW.

[peeker643]

I guess we'll know when he reads my response

I just wanna talk about something without even bringing up 3, 12, USC's QB, Arkansas' QB or QBs in general.

And I really wonder if there is a benefit ot drawback to acting in October as opposed to the end of December.

And what is CMIIW?

[peeker643]

I thought rk was just pointing out that this was true a week ago too, CMIIW.

Never mind. I super-sleuthed CMIIW and came up with "Correct me if I'm wrong".

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Well theoretically, bringing in an interim now means that the young players on the team will be starting next season with their 3rd coach in a year. For continuity's sake it would make sense to keep it as it is until the end of the year. Just playing Devils Advocate, I hate Shurmur as much or more than the next guy.

[peeker643]

Well theoretically, bringing in an interim now means that the young players on the team will be starting next season with their 3rd coach in a year. For continuity's sake it would make sense to keep it as it is until the end of the year. Just playing Devils Advocate, I hate Shurmur as much or more than the next guy.

I dig that. Just think you could replace Shurmur in the locker room and on the sideline with a coat hanger and the players might have more respect for the coat hanger and whoever called for Shurmur to be replaced.

Harder to play for interim guy or lame duck who you never respected anyway? And if interim coach is guy like Chilly who has been a coach before, maybe they respond better to that?

I don't know. I see no risk from a win-loss side. Especially when a valid argument could be made that when a new coach is permanently hired it'll be the first NFL coach these guys have played for in a year.

[pod2dawg]

Shall I wait til the Giants annihilate them and officially make it 0-5? Would a win over the Bengals (or Ravens...or Giants) actually mean anything in terms of the ShurmurShitShow?

Uh...oh I get it you have implied we will be getting annihilated by the Ravens Thursday and it is too late to send Pat to the "discard pile" this week. Correct.

Well , Jimmy is real smart and he seems to "get it" based on what he has said publicly so I am sure he is evaluating the best timing to take Pat's sideline pass away.

Somehow putting "chilly" in charge seems VERY frightening. Jimmy will formulate a plan, I am confident. What is best to stop this grease fire? .......F#$%^ck I don't know. A new regime, another year of draft picks, and PAY some free agents to come in here.

I stated in another thread I was worried we'd slip in the draft, now I'm worried we'll be picking #1 with no clear #1 talent. A year late.

So this what a 10 year hole looks like.

[motherscratcher]

I think that (if he plans to) Haslem should clean house ASAP and I can't think of a good reason not to. Unless he truly hasn't made up his mind on Shurmer, and I don't see how that could possibly be the case.

Holmgren is gone because he was hired to do exactly what Haslem bought the team to do himself and no longer serves a purpose. Heckert and Shurmer are gone because the dominos fall starting with Holmy and thats just the way it is.

Clean slate makes the most sense, no matter what you think about Heckert's drafts. I like Heckert, but he's not the only man capable of executing a couple average drafts in a row that are perceived as epic to a fanbase that has seen so much shit they'll polish up any turd and call it gold.

The way I see it, the main advantage of cleaning house and naming Jauron interim is that you can now begin the search for the replacements and the right team out in the open. Just get on with it. Make your lists, start you interviews. Hit the ground running the day after the season ends.

[motherscratcher]

My .02$...RK was implying that the timing of Peeker's post means that he is overreacting to a bad loss and him opinion is swayed weekly/hourly on the state of the franchise. He apparently hasn't read anything Peeker has written since April.

[peeker643]

My .02$...RK was implying that the timing of Peeker's post means that he is overreacting to a bad loss and him opinion is swayed weekly/hourly on the state of the franchise.

That was my $0.02 as well. It appears RK was impressed more than I was with Weeden's check down, three yard throw to Richardson that TRich turned into a 32-yard Weeden TD pass? The TD to Little? Meh... wide open and stunning only that Little held on and didn't break dance in the end zone. The throw to Harrison yesterday far more impressive in an otherwise shitty performance.

He apparently hasn't read anything Peeker has written since April.

For this I can't blame him, and I do not hold it against him.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

[motherscratcher]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

That may be, but if there is a compete houscleaning from Holmgren on down, he'd probably want to hire a pres and/or GM before the coach. I know that there is usually some kind of period in January where you might be able to interview HC candidates that are still in the playoffs, but I don't know what they rules/customs are for front office types.

Is it allowed that a team searching for a GM could interview guys from other franchises during the season? Or is all that done after the season as well?

[rk]

My .02$...RK was implying that the timing of Peeker's post means that he is overreacting to a bad loss and him opinion is swayed weekly/hourly on the state of the franchise. He apparently hasn't read anything Peeker has written since April.

I've read it. I just am entertained when people wait until a game that adds a data point in their argument's favor to post something like this. Obviously he was not going to post this after the Cincy game when Browns fans were suddenly feeling like the team might very well be turning around into a legitimate NFL football team.

Anytime someone begins a post with 'Honest question...' you can just read 'Completely agenda driven bullcrap question...' and go from there. It's like a reporter starting a sentence with 'Some people think...' which is just code for 'I think...'

Hell the pretense of the question, a dirty store with crap merchandise, is such a ridiculous non sequitor it would be hard to parody. There is not a cleaning service of underpaid, undocumented immigrants just waiting for a contract to clean up the Browns. You can't just replace players on the Browns with other players off the shelf that are guaranteed to be better just because they cost a little more.

The problems are significantly more complex than that and simple solutions simply don't exist. From what I can sift through in his post it seems that the only reason he sees for Shurmer being fired is that fans do not like Shurmer anymore.

Since Haslem has more insight into Shurmer and the way the team is run than any fan that would seem to be a poor argument in favor of an October surprise. The idea that they will become more competitive by firing Shurmer is also a bit of a stretch.

The problems with this team are still foundational problems that you don't fix overnight. Haslem knows he gets a free pass this season and the judgement of Browns fans won't start on him until next year. No real reason to push Shurmer out now even if he's already got someone picked out to take the reins next year. Even if Haslem hasn't already talked about the value of patience in ownership it would seem to be a bad idea for him to make his entrance into the NFL by firing the head coach and likely the president of operations who hired the head coach.

[Gradysmanldy]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

I can't for the life of me figure out who you are getting at. I hope to god it isn't Haley, and even Holmgren thinks Labeau is an old bastard. Tomlin certainly isn't going anywhere.

[Gradysmanldy]

Besides, i'm pretty sure that we're on the "Coordinator who just needs a chance to succeed" portion of the coaching carousel, since we just had the retread head coach and hot young assistant (in name only) turns.

edit: Wonder if the next phase of Browns management comes from stealing coaches from the Steelers, since we've done exhausted the New England and Philly branches.

[General]

There is no point in waiting. This runaway train is headed for a 1 to 2 win season. Aside from some "bright spot" moments like TRich's Cincy game or Weeds connecting on an NFL grade pass this season will turn the FoS into a prime destination spot for the visiting team and the gaping maw of orange seats screaming into the frigid Cleveland winter will be a bigger source of ridicule than the replacement officials. Start now by dumping walking colostomy bag, Holmgren. Then bring the presumed new Pres., Banner and let him flush out the remaining detritus. Start now. Oh yeah, did I say, start now. Unless of course the Mayans are onto something.

[swerb]

No sense to have a lame duck around, especially when you have the ultimate interim coach candidate in the experienced, respected, and even keeled Dick Jauron. Keep the creepy bald guy up in the booth calling plays. It will have almost zero impact firing Shurmur. We've all worked at places where you have a top person that is so inept, when you shit can them, not only is no adjustment needed, but things actually flow smoother when you get rid of them.

And since Holmgren brought this god damn idiot Shurmur here, and did so without even interviewing anyone else (Rooney candidate and one other unqualified drinking buddy), he should go too. Mike Holmgren not only has brought absolutely nothing to the table, he has set this franchise back these past three years. Heckert ... a decision needs to be made there as well.

The earlier you do it the better, and it gives Haslam even more time to prepare for and research what is a very crucial decision for this org this winter in the selection of our next head coach. And I in no way want Mike Holmgren as a part of that search.

Removing the cancer also gives us unbiased people to assess Holmgren's hand picked hilbilly gun slinger over the remaining games. Colt McCoy should not see one snap until WeedINT is injured or starts crying to reporters in a post game haze a la Tim Couch.

[Hikohadon]

I just wanna talk about something without even bringing up 3, 12, USC's QB, Arkansas' QB or QBs in general.

Hooray New Topic!

It doesn't matter if you think he should or should not be gone. He WILL be gone. Either by year end or before.

The rest is just fodder for more of that excellent I Am Right You Are Wrong internet stuff.

So, under the ASSUMPTION that he's a dead man walking (which I assumed he was before the season started unless he and the team improved mightily, and I put that hope to pasture after the FIRST game), do you fire him Day One of the Haslam Era or let him finish the season since it's not like having Childress or Jauron take over will be much different than having Shurmy finish the season.

Either way, the rest of the season doesn't matter on a TEAM level, since the guy coaching on Sundays (and his scheme, and his playbook, and his fundamentals) ain't gonna be there next year.

Really, all firing him right away does is say "I'm sick of this shit", which is a fine message to send, I guess. Not firing him sends the message "I'm giving you all ample opportunity to prove yourselves, so if you fail, it's on you", which is a decent message too.

Personally, I think I'd fire him right away just to keep the crowd from lynching him (those that still showed up). And so I'd never have to hear him talk again.

[Hikohadon]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

I can't for the life of me figure out who you are getting at. I hope to god it isn't Haley, and even Holmgren thinks Labeau is an old bastard. Tomlin certainly isn't going anywhere.

Have to agree with this.

Unless you're somehow trying to hint at Cowher, which would earn you a...



Say it ain't so, GodHates. Say it ain't so.

[Hikohadon]

Removing the cancer also gives us unbiased people to assess Holmgren's hand picked hilbilly gun slinger over the remaining games. Colt McCoy should not see one snap until WeedINT is injured or starts crying to reporters in a post game haze a la Tim Couch.

Makes no sense to put Colt in no matter what, since he was also Holmgren's pet and the book is already out on him. If Weeden goes down for the year, play Thad Lewis instead. It's not like it would matter if they win 3 games or 1.

[Gradysmanldy]

+1 on the Thad Lewis angle.

Also, any remote chance that Haslam forces Holmgren down to the sidelines to run the show for the rest of the year, in accordance with his contract? IE, go stew in the mess you've created? Wouldn't mind seeing that happen for the rest of this year, if for no other reason than you can eliminate the bullshit play calls.

I give it a .001 chance, but at 0-5, 0-6 wonder if it crosses Haslam's mind.

edit: Before the flames begin, I know it's an idiot suggestion, just rather think about the possibility of something interesting happening before the factory of sadness reaches new lows. I'm going to the Dec 16th (skins game) and i'm already horrified at the idea of Weeden getting booed and RGIII getting cheered at CBS.

[Hikohadon]

+1 on the Thad Lewis angle.

Also, any remote chance that Haslam forces Holmgren down to the sidelines to run the show for the rest of the year, in accordance with his contract? IE, go stew in the mess you've created? Wouldn't mind seeing that happen for the rest of this year, if for no other reason than you can eliminate the bullshit play calls.

I give it a .001 chance, but at 0-5, 0-6 wonder if it crosses Haslam's mind.

edit: Before the flames begin, I know it's an idiot suggestion, just rather think about the possibility of something interesting happening before the factory of sadness reaches new lows. I'm going to the Dec 16th (skins game) and i'm already horrified at the idea of Weeden getting booed and RGIII getting cheered at CBS.

Holmgren coaching out the string makes as much sense as having any of the other soon-to-be-gone coaches do it.

They all speak the same language. Be interesting to see how badly Shurmur was speaking it.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Also, any remote chance that Haslam forces Holmgren down to the sidelines to run the show for the rest of the year, in accordance with his contract? IE, go stew in the mess you've created

WINNER!!

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

I can't for the life of me figure out who you are getting at. I hope to god it isn't Haley, and even Holmgren thinks Labeau is an old bastard. Tomlin certainly isn't going anywhere.

That he's familiar with Steeler people and might want to hire some.

[Hikohadon]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

I can't for the life of me figure out who you are getting at. I hope to god it isn't Haley, and even Holmgren thinks Labeau is an old bastard. Tomlin certainly isn't going anywhere.

That he's familiar with Steeler people and might want to hire some.

http://www.steelers.com/team/coaches.html

Not sure I know any of those guys outside of Haley and Lebeau, neither of whom should be candidates. But I guess no outside the realm of possibility.

Remember, it will be Joe Banner making this hire, not Haslam. Haslam will have to rubber stamp it, sure, but he's not hiring Banner for his good looks.

[Gradysmanldy]

+1 on the Thad Lewis angle.

Also, any remote chance that Haslam forces Holmgren down to the sidelines to run the show for the rest of the year, in accordance with his contract? IE, go stew in the mess you've created? Wouldn't mind seeing that happen for the rest of this year, if for no other reason than you can eliminate the bullshit play calls.

I give it a .001 chance, but at 0-5, 0-6 wonder if it crosses Haslam's mind.

edit: Before the flames begin, I know it's an idiot suggestion, just rather think about the possibility of something interesting happening before the factory of sadness reaches new lows. I'm going to the Dec 16th (skins game) and i'm already horrified at the idea of Weeden getting booed and RGIII getting cheered at CBS.

Holmgren coaching out the string makes as much sense as having any of the other soon-to-be-gone coaches do it.

They all speak the same language. Be interesting to see how badly Shurmur was speaking it.

There's value in it. Again, not believing for a moment there's a possibility of it happening, but if your game plan for the day is shit, and the calls are shit, having someone with a track record of being able to run the offense effectively would give you a better chance to evaluate the talent on the field. (Namely, get an actual read on Weeden's ability and the WR's, so that we can prioritize the draft next April)

I remember Walrus mumbling about how he will be as active in the team as he need be, and serve any role thats required of him, during the post-mangini pressers. Said he never ruled out a return to the sidelines, but that he was comfortable in his current role.

If I thought he legitimately gave a shit about his legacy or his on field product here, i'd give it a 5% chance.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

One reason could be that he already knows what head coach he wants to hire and might as well wait til the season is over cuz the guy works for another team (cough Steelers cough).

I can't for the life of me figure out who you are getting at. I hope to god it isn't Haley, and even Holmgren thinks Labeau is an old bastard. Tomlin certainly isn't going anywhere.

That he's familiar with Steeler people and might want to hire some.

http://www.steelers.com/team/coaches.html

Not sure I know any of those guys outside of Haley and Lebeau, neither of whom should be candidates. But I guess no outside the realm of possibility.

Remember, it will be Joe Banner making this hire, not Haslam. Haslam will have to rubber stamp it, sure, but he's not hiring Banner for his good looks.

Another reason to not wait

The next Prez is already here, there's an OC in the booth and that Dick guy already on the sideline

You snuff out Walrus and Fritz and don't skip a beat and you save 3 months worth of angst and vitrolic conversation while looking ahead to the future

I just hope and pray to God Andy Reid's name never comes up

...any event, we've gone the give him the year route...that never works unless his name is Tom Coughlin

[FUDU]

I thought rk was just pointing out that this was true a week ago too, CMIIW.

Never mind. I super-sleuthed CMIIW and came up with "Correct me if I'm wrong".

Here I was going with Cleveland may improve, I'm wasted.

[Hikohadon]

I just hope and pray to God Andy Reid's name never comes up

People have heard of his name, so they will.

[Gradysmanldy]

I'm pretty sure if the Reidster can't at least reach the NFC championship game, he's out. Not sure if he'd want to come here, but we could do worse.

[googleeph2]

Since I am the only one wondering about this, I surely must have missed some tangible reasons to think Haslam will 'clean house'. Holmgren-sure. He wants out anyway.

But have we just convinced ourselves Haslam will be pro-active in the same way we once made ourselves sure it was only a matter of time until Homgren installed himself as head coach?

[googleeph2]

Who will be gone first: Shurmur or Acta?

Is the most stable franchise in town the Cavaliers?

[swerb]

Who will be gone first: Shurmur or Acta?

Is the most stable franchise in town the Cavaliers?

[Triple-S]

Week 9's a good time.

At that point the team should be either winless or limping along with 1 win, and it should be after a home asswhooping by the 2013 Super Bowl Champion Ravens.

That would be pretty justifiable for Shurmer to get fired. Right now his resume isn't bad enough, believe it or not.

It's also a bye week so you give Jauron 2 weeks to get things together, and allows him to try to coach his way into the job (doubtful).

[Gradysmanldy]

Thank god for the Buckeyes, and for alcohol.

[Hikohadon]

Since I am the only one wondering about this, I surely must have missed some tangible reasons to think Haslam will 'clean house'. Holmgren-sure. He wants out anyway.

But have we just convinced ourselves Haslam will be pro-active in the same way we once made ourselves sure it was only a matter of time until Homgren installed himself as head coach?

I think the reason for this assumption is this:

1. Not sure Shurmur would've survived a 2-14 season under Holmgren, much less some new guy.

2. The lesson of Holmgren not firing Mangini will not be lost.

3. New owner/new prez will want to start clean with their own guy, someone that will excite the fan base and lend legitimacy to their franchise/regime.

4. Conversely, Haslam is smart enough to know that sticking with a completely unsuccessful and enormously unpopular coach would make him look like he didn't know what he was doing. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

Unless there's some miracle turnaround, I cannot imagine a scenario where Shurmur doesn't get let go. It just depends on when.

[swerb]

Thank god for the Buckeyes, and for alcohol.

Truth.

[ShadowDawg]

You don't fire him because all the interim coach (Jauron/Childress) can really do is lull Haslem into thinking they are legitimate head coach's. (See Kansas City and that fat ass Cheeseburger Crennel.) I personally don't want to see either re-tread anywhere close to being associated with being our head coach.

Let it play out...dump him after the season...bring in your "guy".

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Thank god for the Buckeyes, and for alcohol.

Truth.

Our motto for the last 10 years.

[peeker643]

I've read it. I just am entertained when people wait until a game that adds a data point in their argument's favor to post something like this. Obviously he was not going to post this after the Cincy game when Browns fans were suddenly feeling like the team might very well be turning around into a legitimate NFL football team.

Yes- I was giddy and all of Cleveland figured the light was on and shit was different- you've got your finger on the pulse..

Anytime someone begins a post with 'Honest question...' you can just read 'Completely agenda driven bullcrap question...' and go from there. It's like a reporter starting a sentence with 'Some people think...' which is just code for 'I think...'

No- As you can see by the 35 posts that followed, people have different opinions. I have one that's been clearly stated. I wanted to see how many people had a similar thought or how many disagreed. You're just a d-bag that feels picked on.

Hell the pretense of the question, a dirty store with crap merchandise, is such a ridiculous non sequitor it would be hard to parody. There is not a cleaning service of underpaid, undocumented immigrants just waiting for a contract to clean up the Browns. You can't just replace players on the Browns with other players off the shelf that are guaranteed to be better just because they cost a little more.

It's not the players we're talking about, dipshit. You could remove a few key managers on day one and set the tone for the changes that are coming. And what kind of half-assed racist bullshit is that 'cleaning service/immigrants' crack? Keep posting. I love watching people self-immolate and reveal themselves.

The problems are significantly more complex than that and simple solutions simply don't exist. From what I can sift through in his post it seems that the only reason he sees for Shurmer being fired is that fans do not like Shurmer anymore.

Since Haslem has more insight into Shurmer and the way the team is run than any fan that would seem to be a poor argument in favor of an October surprise. The idea that they will become more competitive by firing Shurmer is also a bit of a stretch.

When did I mention they'd be more competitive? Please, try and stick to your own disjointed and alarmingly discriminatory thoughts and rationale. You ain't immediately overcoming a couple years worth of shitty results at Macy's by firing a manager or two the day you walk in either. But that doesn't mean you don't do it to get their ineffective asses gone and begin rebuilding the morale of the people remaining (like the players), establish the fact that accountability is back in style and begin making improvements to your effing business.