peeker643 wrote:Agreed. Just thinking that objectively you have to really wonder. And you have to really wonder when the system is fucked six ways to Sunday if young QBs who are confused and uncomfortable and have few weapons to choose from get pressured, the game speeds up and their lack of confidence results in them in them looking to make the sure, safe pass, especially if they can't move around.
So either it affected both Cuddles and Weeden to that extent or the system calls for it too often, meaning replacing with Cuddles with Weeden, despite the arm strength difference, was misguided.
Gradysmanldy wrote:peeker643 wrote:Gradysmanldy wrote:It's not just game to game, it's within games too.
I'm sure it helps that Shurmur & Co. have been pounding Check Down and Take Sacks as good options into his head rather than Thread The Needle.
Saw that all day yesterday. Weeds was more than happy through 3 quarters to just tuck the ball and fall vs. step up and rip cord downfield. Not sure how much of that is receivers not getting open vs. risk aversion. The checkdowns to covered RB's/WR's at the line was infuriating.
This begs the question that if it's Shurmur & Co. "pounding Check Down and Take Sacks as good options" to Weeden, was Cuddles acting on his own with those things or was the staff potentially pounding it into his younger, more impressionable, 3rd round head as well?
Because I'm going to have to do some serious reflecting on things if folks think Cuddles showed up in the huddle with that mindset and that all the gunslinging cowboy has been beaten out of Weeden.
Million dollar question, to be honest. I thought it was a product of Colt being incapable/too scared to throw the deeper routes last year combined with his shit WR's being unable to get open down there.....and then in week 2, it felt like Weeden consistently was connecting with guys further downfield than I saw all year last year.
Then in week 3, we return to checkdown bullshit.
Not sure where the smoking gun is, here. Could be a combination of both. If we see another 3-4 weeks of dink and dunk, i'm not sure MUR sees the end of the season. Let Holmgren/Chilly call the plays the rest of the way out, so you can properly evaluate the ginger menace.
Cuddles certainly checked down less under Mangini than Shurmur.
I agree with the assessment that part of the problem with Colt's checkdownitis was his inability to make some of the throws that were open downfield, some of it was also due to running for his life/throwing to first warm body he sees. But the Shurmur WCO was also a factor.
In a vacuum, I'm sure Weeden with his arm is more apt to go downfield than McCoy, but he's been told that if the play's not there immediately check down (probably to alleviate fumbles), and a check down to Richardson went for a TD last week, so Weeden's probably gonna swear by them during his formatory stage.
Both QB's have limitations that would make it difficult for them to succeed in the league in the first place, but under Shurmur's tutelage, it's damn near impossible.
Shurms reminds me of a golf coach that comes in and says "Well, I know you've been winning with your current swing, but I'm going to completely change it to the way I like."
for both.
