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Tribe Manager Candidates

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Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:48 am

Solid article, Adam.

If Alomar wants to be a manager, he will eventually of course- but the sentimental side of me wants him to remain a coach. Remaining a coach = more likely to stick around and be an organizational type guy. Becoming manager is the first step to inevitably being fired. He'd be moving on in 3 yrs, I'd guess, and be done with the Tribe.

Nagy- I don't know how he's done with the SD staff but I can't help but recall all the times he pouted when he was in trouble on the mound. I just don't think he is very positive sometimes, and can't see him as a motivator of young pitchers who are trying to make it.

I like getting a mgr who has been through it before, at least once. I know Acta was- I still like him but agree he'll be gone.

They need to figure out how to get the starting staff to be consistently good, assuming that is possible.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby jerryroche » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:07 am

Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby swerb » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:10 am

I'd stay with Acta, but at this point I don't think they will. Especially after about 5% of season ticket holders return the calls the team is making now.

I do think the Indians need to shake things up this off-season. Clearly the Shapiro, Antonetti, hand picked inexperienced cheap puppet manager plan isn't working.

I'd have Sandy Alomar and Terry Francona at the top of my manager interview list.

And I would can Antonetti and hire Jim Bowden as the GM. Laugh if you may ... but anyone that has listened to this guy talk baseball on MLB Radio won't be laughing. The guy knows the game inside and out, likes stats but is an eye test guy, and built winning teams with league low payrolls as baseballs youngest GM ever in Cincy in the 90's. In Washington, he drafted or acquired many of the young players that are now helping the Nats cruise towards 100+ wins.

It would be a controversial hire but I believe a good one. Never in my life have I heard a better analyst of the game than I have listening to Bowden the last three years. Guy gets it.

Of course, no change will be made in the front office. They'll keep that same group in there that has produced substandard results. If it's broke, don't fix it. And they'll axe the manager that they gave those garbage players to.

Makes no sense.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby pup » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:20 am

OK. I'll do it.

Swerb as GM.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby 1Perry » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:28 am

Pick someone walking past the stadium it will make as much of a difference.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby swerb » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:35 am

If they continue to supply the big league team with such poor players, then yes, the manager is irrelevant.

There is not a human being that has ever lived that could have won 82 games with this garbage they gave Acta.

But the front office people can make a difference, clearly. Think about how sad it is that the top tiers of the minor leagues are so bereft of talent/options that they are still starting losers that will not be here next year like Hafner and Kotchman.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:45 am

They have no choice but to make a splash with freed-up payroll, don't they?
Not just in free agency but in trades- taking on some short term salary.

Hard to believe that wouldn't be attractive to a Bowden.

The fans need to see a plan, a direction. A smart approach in rebuilding a core will take anyone a couple yrs but this org needs some juice, now. I know fans all see it but do the Dolans? Really wondering what they want to do, and what they expect in ticket demand. Just hiring Alomar and more roster filler would really harden apathy among the season ticket-type people.

Seems too obvious to state, but the team has not shown any feel at all for getting fans excited. They whine about the economy and the big market teams, and promote the 1990s more than Kipnis/Chisenhall/Santana etc. Minor league teams do a better job at promotion.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby Bigfist » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:29 am

I, for one, would not be shocked to see Hafner offered a Sizemore type deal for next year, seeing that they have to buy him out for 2.5 million anyhow. They could make it a base of 3 million, with incentives. So, in the end, they can argue that Hafner really only cost 500,000.

I wonder what it would take to get Gerry Hunsicker here, or if he would even be interested. He certainly would have a good idea of what to do to build a team. He is not young, so may not be interested in the difficult challenge he would face.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:15 pm

Thanks eeph.

Obviously, Sal Fasano is my first choice, but it'll never happen. I'll have to fire up my Sal Fasano avatar from 2010 if Acta is indeed canned.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Sparky Anderson or Billy Martin.

Or, hell...Ricky Martin. Does it really matter?
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:11 pm

jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby justmebd » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:59 pm

leadpipe wrote:
jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.

I would argue "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is a huge factor when you look back on the Atomic Wedgie years. Who here doesn't think if Wedge hadn't been managing Game 5 of the ALCS like it was a day game in June instead of GAME FREAKIN' FIVE OF THE ALCS that we wouldn't have won the damn series in Cleveland that day.

Wedge was the only rat fucktard who didn't understand that A) C.C. was gassed and B) He had a very healthy bullpen ready to come in. There's no way Hargrove, Acta, Francona, etc., let C.C. come out for the Seventh inning. Only a complete nincompoop like Wedge makes that decision.

So yeah, "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is pretty important.

I'm still friggin pissed about 2007, in case you hadn't noticed..
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:27 pm

justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.

I would argue "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is a huge factor when you look back on the Atomic Wedgie years. Who here doesn't think if Wedge hadn't been managing Game 5 of the ALCS like it was a day game in June instead of GAME FREAKIN' FIVE OF THE ALCS that we wouldn't have won the damn series in Cleveland that day.

Wedge was the only rat fucktard who didn't understand that A) C.C. was gassed and B) He had a very healthy bullpen ready to come in. There's no way Hargrove, Acta, Francona, etc., let C.C. come out for the Seventh inning. Only a complete nincompoop like Wedge makes that decision.

So yeah, "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is pretty important.

I'm still friggin pissed about 2007, in case you hadn't noticed..


If he puts the pen in and they get outs he's a good manager.

If he puts the pen in and they get hit he's a poor one.

That Joe Torre could handle a pen, old Zimmer would elbow him awake and he'd put Wetteland or Rivera in.

And Mike Scoscia was the best, until Frankie R. and the journeyman came down to earth, then he couldn't handle the bullpen as well.

...Raffy right...Raffy left...closer...remember the year that worked, and then the year that didn't? Bullpen was, and is "handled" pretty much the same way by everyone. Good pitchers get outs - they are handled well. Humps don't get outs - they aren't so easily handled.

Again, a video game or Starto-Matic guy not only predicts, but makes the same moves the real guys do, and one thing for certain - there ain't 5 games of difference between the two.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby jerryroche » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:46 pm

The way this team's been handled by the owner, CEO, president and general manager for the past x years can only lead a reasonable person to one of two conclusions.

1) They don't care about winning championships. Either that, or it's at the bottom of their list of priorities.

2) They have as much idea about how to put together a winning team as R.P. McMurphy's idiot pal Martini.

Either way, we're fucked.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:06 am

jerryroche wrote:The way this team's been handled by the owner, CEO, president and general manager for the past x years can only lead a reasonable person to one of two conclusions.

1) They don't care about winning championships. Either that, or it's at the bottom of their list of priorities.

2) They have as much idea about how to put together a winning team as R.P. McMurphy's idiot pal Martini.

Either way, we're fucked.

The Dolan's No. 1 priority is to not lose money, which begs the question: "Why the FUCK did you buy a baseball team?"

Since the smart thing to do would be to fire the ENTIRE front office due to its near-historical record of ineptitude, that's what you hope would happen. But if these guys aren't at the end of their contracts, not gonna happen. The Dolans don't pay people to not work.

With that in mind, I really wouldn't be surprised to see Acta retained. The only reason Wedge was let go was he had a bad season in the final year of his contract.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:09 am

leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.

I would argue "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is a huge factor when you look back on the Atomic Wedgie years. Who here doesn't think if Wedge hadn't been managing Game 5 of the ALCS like it was a day game in June instead of GAME FREAKIN' FIVE OF THE ALCS that we wouldn't have won the damn series in Cleveland that day.

Wedge was the only rat fucktard who didn't understand that A) C.C. was gassed and B) He had a very healthy bullpen ready to come in. There's no way Hargrove, Acta, Francona, etc., let C.C. come out for the Seventh inning. Only a complete nincompoop like Wedge makes that decision.

So yeah, "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is pretty important.

I'm still friggin pissed about 2007, in case you hadn't noticed..


If he puts the pen in and they get outs he's a good manager.

If he puts the pen in and they get hit he's a poor one.

That Joe Torre could handle a pen, old Zimmer would elbow him awake and he'd put Wetteland or Rivera in.

And Mike Scoscia was the best, until Frankie R. and the journeyman came down to earth, then he couldn't handle the bullpen as well.

...Raffy right...Raffy left...closer...remember the year that worked, and then the year that didn't? Bullpen was, and is "handled" pretty much the same way by everyone. Good pitchers get outs - they are handled well. Humps don't get outs - they aren't so easily handled.

Again, a video game or Starto-Matic guy not only predicts, but makes the same moves the real guys do, and one thing for certain - there ain't 5 games of difference between the two.

Lead, I get it, I really do. But when it comes to the 2007 ALCS, I repeat: EVERYBODY who ever was a fan of the game knew C.C. was completely gassed after the sixth inning EXCEPT Wedge.

If the bullpen had come in and crapped the bed, the blame would've been on the pitcher, not the manager. I wish I could manipulate reality through string theory to prove to you how right I am on this particular game.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby pup » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:59 am

Since starting 30-15 in 2011, and including another hot start this year, the Cleveland Indians have won less than 40% of their games.

And we are concerning ourselves with the next manager?
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:22 am

pup wrote:
And we are concerning ourselves with the next manager?


Maybe we can find one that bats right and plays left. (?)
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:15 pm

justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.

I would argue "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is a huge factor when you look back on the Atomic Wedgie years. Who here doesn't think if Wedge hadn't been managing Game 5 of the ALCS like it was a day game in June instead of GAME FREAKIN' FIVE OF THE ALCS that we wouldn't have won the damn series in Cleveland that day.

Wedge was the only rat fucktard who didn't understand that A) C.C. was gassed and B) He had a very healthy bullpen ready to come in. There's no way Hargrove, Acta, Francona, etc., let C.C. come out for the Seventh inning. Only a complete nincompoop like Wedge makes that decision.

So yeah, "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is pretty important.

I'm still friggin pissed about 2007, in case you hadn't noticed..


If he puts the pen in and they get outs he's a good manager.

If he puts the pen in and they get hit he's a poor one.

That Joe Torre could handle a pen, old Zimmer would elbow him awake and he'd put Wetteland or Rivera in.

And Mike Scoscia was the best, until Frankie R. and the journeyman came down to earth, then he couldn't handle the bullpen as well.

...Raffy right...Raffy left...closer...remember the year that worked, and then the year that didn't? Bullpen was, and is "handled" pretty much the same way by everyone. Good pitchers get outs - they are handled well. Humps don't get outs - they aren't so easily handled.

Again, a video game or Starto-Matic guy not only predicts, but makes the same moves the real guys do, and one thing for certain - there ain't 5 games of difference between the two.

Lead, I get it, I really do. But when it comes to the 2007 ALCS, I repeat: EVERYBODY who ever was a fan of the game knew C.C. was completely gassed after the sixth inning EXCEPT Wedge.

If the bullpen had come in and crapped the bed, the blame would've been on the pitcher, not the manager. I wish I could manipulate reality through string theory to prove to you how right I am on this particular game.


You weren't around here in '07, nor did you listen to talk radio.

Couldn't have.

Cause whether he deserved it or not, Wedge couldn't bend his elbow around here without everyone going apeshit. So if you think he doesn't get shit for ANYTHING he did there that resulted in a negative outcome you are delusional.

And by the way, this is more a reflection on the ficklness of fans than anything to do with Wedge personally. Cause ANY manager, in a big game, that makes a move that results in a loss gets shit on the next day by the same guy that's still dressing up for the dawg pound.

And really, ad nauseum with this, but the HOF'ers like Stengel and Torre were "great" when they had playas, and terrible without. Rinse and repeat. If you wanna search the annals of time for situations here or there, great. It doesn't change that very fact, that has been true for all of baseball time.

To be clear, in a nutshell: A baseball manager doesn't mean dick. Or, to apply it to the point of this particular thread, For the Cleveland Indians, a manger WON'T mean dick.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:52 pm

leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
jerryroche wrote:Most of us familiar with the sport know that, of all the major sports, a baseball manager has the least to do with a team's success. Maybe five, ten games per season. In all probability, the Tribe will win 66, 67 games this season. Even 10 more victories would put them at 77-85--a long way from contending.

As we know, winning all comes down to the players. The Tribe is stuck with a bunch of mostly mediocre banjo hitters here and in the minors, and no consistent starting pitchers. For starters, they have to somehow fix Masterson and Ubaldo. If history proves out, that will not be an easy task. And they've got to lure a player of Josh Willingham's caliber here to bat fourth--which could be an exercise in frustration, given the team's current rep. Replacing Manny Acta will not do the job.

Even one scary-good hitter will do more than anything to solve the team's attendance problems, too. There's just nobody to root for on this roster, except maybe Kipnis and Pestano. What a sorry situation for Tribe fans.


There's not a manager on God's green Earth worth five games.

Today, yesterday and forever.

There's about two things that you need from the guy - he needs to be able to command respect in the clubhouse, and he needs to handle the media - specifically having guys backs. You can see how these are related. And this is where Boston F'd up. Just don't hire an arrogant douche that is going to put himself up front and his players under the bus.

As far as attaboys. pumpkin seeds, shouts of "nice stroke" by the cage...it's all the same. Including the moves on the field, cause every GD one of them is doing it by the book. Hell, an knowledgable fan can predtict 95% of the team's moves from his couch. The difference in how you "handle the bullpen" is whether you've got playas or humps to choose from.

They aren't going to get a hot name, cause a hot name indicates they'll be wanted in more than one place. And anyone with half a brain ain't signing here, with what they've got on tap the next few years. You're gonna get a guy who's either A. Really new, and not quite on radars, or B. Some vet making his last stop.

I can see Francona lasting about 5 games before him penciling the bottom 5 in the order and the nights starting pitcher causes him to kick his own ass.

I would argue "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is a huge factor when you look back on the Atomic Wedgie years. Who here doesn't think if Wedge hadn't been managing Game 5 of the ALCS like it was a day game in June instead of GAME FREAKIN' FIVE OF THE ALCS that we wouldn't have won the damn series in Cleveland that day.

Wedge was the only rat fucktard who didn't understand that A) C.C. was gassed and B) He had a very healthy bullpen ready to come in. There's no way Hargrove, Acta, Francona, etc., let C.C. come out for the Seventh inning. Only a complete nincompoop like Wedge makes that decision.

So yeah, "knowing how to handle the bullpen" is pretty important.

I'm still friggin pissed about 2007, in case you hadn't noticed..


If he puts the pen in and they get outs he's a good manager.

If he puts the pen in and they get hit he's a poor one.

That Joe Torre could handle a pen, old Zimmer would elbow him awake and he'd put Wetteland or Rivera in.

And Mike Scoscia was the best, until Frankie R. and the journeyman came down to earth, then he couldn't handle the bullpen as well.

...Raffy right...Raffy left...closer...remember the year that worked, and then the year that didn't? Bullpen was, and is "handled" pretty much the same way by everyone. Good pitchers get outs - they are handled well. Humps don't get outs - they aren't so easily handled.

Again, a video game or Starto-Matic guy not only predicts, but makes the same moves the real guys do, and one thing for certain - there ain't 5 games of difference between the two.

Lead, I get it, I really do. But when it comes to the 2007 ALCS, I repeat: EVERYBODY who ever was a fan of the game knew C.C. was completely gassed after the sixth inning EXCEPT Wedge.

If the bullpen had come in and crapped the bed, the blame would've been on the pitcher, not the manager. I wish I could manipulate reality through string theory to prove to you how right I am on this particular game.


You weren't around here in '07, nor did you listen to talk radio.

Couldn't have.

Cause whether he deserved it or not, Wedge couldn't bend his elbow around here without everyone going apeshit. So if you think he doesn't get shit for ANYTHING he did there that resulted in a negative outcome you are delusional.

And by the way, this is more a reflection on the ficklness of fans than anything to do with Wedge personally. Cause ANY manager, in a big game, that makes a move that results in a loss gets shit on the next day by the same guy that's still dressing up for the dawg pound.

And really, ad nauseum with this, but the HOF'ers like Stengel and Torre were "great" when they had playas, and terrible without. Rinse and repeat. If you wanna search the annals of time for situations here or there, great. It doesn't change that very fact, that has been true for all of baseball time.

To be clear, in a nutshell: A baseball manager doesn't mean dick. Or, to apply it to the point of this particular thread, For the Cleveland Indians, a manger WON'T mean dick.

Actually, I was around here in 2007, I just didn't start commenting until 2008 -- and I listened to talk radio every day at the time and still do.
As for the rest, we'll agree to disagree on some points.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:03 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Sparky Anderson or Billy Martin.

Or, hell...Ricky Martin. Does it really matter?



well Ricky Martin is probably better at fellatio, which our players will need following all their losses
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:24 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Sparky Anderson or Billy Martin.

Or, hell...Ricky Martin. Does it really matter?


Or even Remy Martin for that matter.

It's very interesting to see names like Scioscia and Leyland getting thrown around as being in danger of being fired at the end of the season due to not living up to expectations due to payroll. One day you're a genius, the next day you're not cutting the mustard. Did those guys become worse all of a sudden? Probably not. It's like Houston firing Brad Mills, a guy highly regarded in baseball. Did they really expect him to win with the shit he had to manage?

In order to get a guy like Francona you'd need to heavily over-pay, which is why I don't think they fire Acta, or if they do they'll just hire another 'up and coming' guy with no big league managerial experience on the cheap, hoping to find the next great leader.

None of the highly regarded veteran managers are going to want to have anything to do with an organization like Cleveland. These guys see who they run out there on a daily basis, the trades they've made, the commitment to winning, the money they spend. Not one of them would choose to come here. We couldn't even convince John Farrell to come here and he grew up in this organization.

The last guy in the world who'd take the managerial job in Cleveland would be Terry Francona or anyone as highly regarded as he is. Forget it.
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Re: Tribe Manager Candidates

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:08 pm

Give me a staff of Leyland, Scioscia, LaRussa, Connie Mack and Dick Williams, with Joe Torre in the all-important bullpen coaching role, and I'll show you 90-100 losses when their LF choices are Zeke Carrera, Shelly Duncan and Aaron Cunningham, their starting corner infielders are Jack Hannahan and Casey Kotchman and the top two in their starting rotation are 2012 Justin Masterson and 2012 Ubaldo Jimenez.
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