Ready to pay for a dome now?

[Spin]

Jimmy Haslam was at a city council meeting and was asked by Mike Polensek what he thought of adding a dome to CBS.

Of course he was very excited about it, as is Polensek. And they probably both think the other is going to pay for it.

So, what's your opinion of a retractable dome now?

Do you want to pay for it?

If not, who should?

[andrew6586]

It would be like putting a silk suit on a pig. That stadium was built so cheap that it would be a waste of time in my opinion. We would be better off building a completely new stadium from scratch. Although putting a roof on would give us the chance to get a Super Bowl, I still don't see it improving much else. We play football outside in the cold in Ohio. Period.

[idoctribefan]

It would be like putting a silk suit on a pig. That stadium was built so cheap that it would be a waste of time in my opinion. We would be better off building a completely new stadium from scratch. Although putting a roof on would give us the chance to get a Super Bowl, I still don't see it improving much else. We play football outside in the cold in Ohio. Period.

Putting a dome (retractable roof) on would be done for reasons other than moving Browns' games indoors. How many days per year is Cleveland Browns Stadium in use? 10 Browns games, Browns scrimmage, a few high school games and a small college game, Kenny Chesney concert,.......anything else? So it's used 14 days per year? Take a look to see how often Lucas Oil Stadium is used:

http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/upcoming-events.aspx

I would prefer to play the games out in the elements as well, but a roof would (in theory) attract tens of thousands of additional people downtown each year.

There is plenty of ongoing construction around downtown Indy likely resulting from the influx of public and private money due to the new stadium and convention center.

[TouchEmAllTime]

No way there would ever be a Super Bowl in Cleveland, just leave the cookie cutter alone.

[Govbarney]

I doubt Cleveland would ever get a SB either, however a final four would be possible.

The only way I would see this happening (and I agree with Andrew it would be better just to tear the eye-sore down and start from scratch) would be if the Browns played a decade plus of great football, with a Franchise QB who garners a ton of commercial interest e.g. what happened in Indy with Payton Manning, and the house that he built

[Hikohadon]

I will gladly pay for them to NOT have a dome.

Maybe a No-Dome tax will cover the 4 extra events a year and the Final Four once every 20 years that they'd be giving up.

[Triple-S]

I want a dome.

It would be nice to have the stadium host something other than bad football and a shitty kenny chesney concert.

[Hikohadon]

I want a dome.

It would be nice to have the stadium host something other than bad football and a shitty kenny chesney concert.

You sure a dome does that?

Even if capping the stadium does get a SB (debatable), that's once every 20 years or so.

Whoopee.

[Spin]

I want a dome.

It would be nice to have the stadium host something other than bad football and a shitty kenny chesney concert.

You sure a dome does that?

Even if capping the stadium does get a SB (debatable), that's once every 20 years or so.

Whoopee.

Look around at what other domes host.

And with a retractable roof, you can have open air for football or anything else in good weather.

[justmebd]

Retractable Roof Will Be Down in the winter when teams like Miami, Tampa and San Diego come to town. So don't get too worked up over anything.

Cleveland is dumb, not stupid.

[Hikohadon]

I want a dome.

It would be nice to have the stadium host something other than bad football and a shitty kenny chesney concert.

You sure a dome does that?

Even if capping the stadium does get a SB (debatable), that's once every 20 years or so.

Whoopee.

Look around at what other domes host.

And with a retractable roof, you can have open air for football or anything else in good weather.

Let's assume that building a retractable dome immediately makes Cleveland a viable site for big-time events without massive hotel and infrastructure expansion.

Oh wait. That would be stupid.

[That_Guy™]

If you build it, they will come...

[Hikohadon]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

[Spin]

Hotels won't come unless there's demand.

Typical Cleveland. We won't take the first step, because all of the other steps aren't done yet.

Cleveland Indians (and Browns) strategy. We won't sign free agents, because the team's "not good enough" yet (putting us in perpetual rebuilding mode).

[Hikohadon]

So if they cap the stadium, hotels will start pouring into town in anticipation of some massive demand for stadium use? They're gonna throw up a bunch of rooms b/c 10 years from now maybe Cleveland gets a SB or Final Four?

If you say so.

My feeling is there has to be more of demand for hotel space on a regular basis - dome or no dome - before hotels see it as feasible to start building new ones.

[Spin]

So if they cap the stadium, hotels will start pouring into town in anticipation of some massive demand for stadium use? They're gonna throw up a bunch of rooms b/c 10 years from now maybe Cleveland gets a SB or Final Four?

If you say so.

My feeling is there has to be more of demand for hotel space on a regular basis - dome or no dome - before hotels see it as feasible to start building new ones.

The dome, like the casino, medical mart, arena/ballpark, rock hall, and everything else would create year-round need. You guys look at one football game as the only thing that would be held there, when Idoctribefan showed us the link http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/upcoming-events.aspx

Define myopic.

[Hikohadon]

So if they cap the stadium, hotels will start pouring into town in anticipation of some massive demand for stadium use? They're gonna throw up a bunch of rooms b/c 10 years from now maybe Cleveland gets a SB or Final Four?

If you say so.

My feeling is there has to be more of demand for hotel space on a regular basis - dome or no dome - before hotels see it as feasible to start building new ones.

The dome, like the casino, medical mart, arena/ballpark, rock hall, and everything else would create year-round need. You guys look at one football game as the only thing that would be held there, when Idoctribefan showed us the link http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/upcoming-events.aspx

Define myopic.

I can't, I've never seen your opic.

Putting a roof on CBS does not make it Lucas Oil Stadium.

Impressed by all those events they have booked for 10-100 people. I guess that keeps the janitors employed.

[Hikohadon]

Let's be honest - would the city get more use out of a capped stadium than it is now? Yes.

But to think that CBS will instantly start competing with Lucas Oil Stadium or Ford Field simply because it now has a roof is naive. Those facilities were designed to be glorified convention centers. CBS was designed to be a football stadium.

If you want to compete with the Lucas Oil Stadiums, you'd have to tear CBS down and build a new facility there that was designed to accommodate a multitude of events.

And I still contend that almost all of those events that Lucas Oil hosts could be taken care of by building a state-of-the-art convention center, which would probably cost as much to build as putting a retractable roof on the stadium.

This argument is useless anyway - those architecture firms are going to look at it and tell Jimmy "Here's how much it'll cost you to put lipstick on this pig" and he'll say "Thanks, I think I'll build some more suites instead."

[pup]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

Sounds to me like there are not enough hotels in Geneva.

[Larvell Blanks]

The need to put a dome on CBS would coincide with building an adjacent convention center. A convention center is being rebuilt next to the Medical Mart so there's no need for that. The time for a dome/convo center should have been put in place back in '98/'99 when the joint was being put up. Too bad everyone was up in arms back then b/c no way were people going to go watch a game indoors. Funny how a decade + of shitty play makes people wish it had been done.

A dome will attract concerts? Which bands do stadium tours during the winter months anyways?

Sure you could build more hotels in hopes that one weekend 5 -10 yrs from now will be sold out, sound like a good business practice.

[Hikohadon]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

Sounds to me like there are not enough hotels in Geneva.

I'm sure there aren't.

They were hotelling in Cleveland.

[peeker643]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

Sounds to me like there are not enough hotels in Geneva.

Same principle. Beautiful, expensive, ridiculous facility in Geneva. It's drop-dead gorgeous and state of the art and perfectly suited to hold huge national and regional events. Built with High School state and regional championships in mind, collegiate swimming and volleyball tourneys, rugby, hoops, volleyball, the whole 9.

But two things that will affect Cleveland also greatly affect Spire: no one wants to come to this part of the country from Nov through March when they can go to a similar facility elsewhere with better weather and there is nowhere for all of the humanity to stay that's convenient to the event and the site.

Chicken or the egg thing.

[Hikohadon]

The need to put a dome on CBS would coincide with building an adjacent convention center. A convention center is being rebuilt next to the Medical Mart so there's no need for that. The time for a dome/convo center should have been put in place back in '98/'99 when the joint was being put up. Too bad everyone was up in arms back then b/c no way were people going to go watch a game indoors. Funny how a decade + of shitty play makes people wish it had been done.

A dome will attract concerts? Which bands do stadium tours during the winter months anyways?

Sure you could build more hotels in hopes that one weekend 5 -10 yrs from now will be sold out, sound like a good business practice.

^Gets it.

How many bands do stadium tours period? How many are so big that the Gund just won't hold all the fans?

[idoctribefan]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

Sounds to me like there are not enough hotels in Geneva.

Same principle. Beautiful, expensive, ridiculous facility in Geneva. It's drop-dead gorgeous and state of the art and perfectly suited to hold huge national and regional events. Built with High School state and regional championships in mind, collegiate swimming and volleyball tourneys, rugby, hoops, volleyball, the whole 9.

But two things that will affect Cleveland also greatly affect Spire: no one wants to come to this part of the country from Nov through March when they can go to a similar facility elsewhere with better weather and there is nowhere for all of the humanity to stay that's convenient to the event and the site.

Chicken or the egg thing.

Surely Pup can house a few co-eds in his guest room for a week in March. That's one fewer hotel room needed.

[Spin]

Can't.
Never.
Won't.

Same Cleveland, Different Day.

[leadpipe]

Was told about this last night by someone that works in the Cleveland hotel industry:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-08-30/winter-national-championships-festival-moved-birmingham-ala

The 2013 Division II Winter National Championships Festival has been moved from Cleveland to Birmingham, Ala., because of challenges involving the hotel block in Cleveland.

The Festival − which will feature Division II national championships in men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor track, and wrestling – will be conducted March 3-9, 2013, at Birmingham’s CrossPlex multisport facility. The dates and schedule of events will not be affected by the change of venue. The Gulf South Conference and the City of Birmingham will serve as co-hosts.

It was originally supposed to be held at the Spire in Geneva, but the bottom line was that Cleveland didn't have enough hotel space to accommodate the Festival. Of course, the Super Bowl and the Final Four aren't nearly as big as the Div. II Swimming Championships...

Sounds to me like there are not enough hotels in Geneva.

Same principle. Beautiful, expensive, ridiculous facility in Geneva. It's drop-dead gorgeous and state of the art and perfectly suited to hold huge national and regional events. Built with High School state and regional championships in mind, collegiate swimming and volleyball tourneys, rugby, hoops, volleyball, the whole 9.

But two things that will affect Cleveland also greatly affect Spire: no one wants to come to this part of the country from Nov through March when they can go to a similar facility elsewhere with better weather and there is nowhere for all of the humanity to stay that's convenient to the event and the site.

Chicken or the egg thing.

It's not only the weather with Spire, it's that it's 90 minutes from the airport - if the weather cooperates. They'll get passed over for an equally shitty weather city like Chicago, cause your team can fly in, and 10 minutes later your at your hotel.

To the point of Hotels, and how Spire and Cleveland are related - look at lodging from Mentor, all the way out to Spire. You know why there isn't much - cause there's no demand. You woulda thought that guy who built it woulda opened his eyes a bit to this. In any event, in today's climate, good luck finding financing for a hotel that you can't guarantee 75% occupance year round. They ain't puttin' a shovel in the ground for 52 weekends at capacity. In Cleveland, Geneva, or anywhere else. And 52 weekends isn't feasible, and even if it was, you're at about 35% for the year.

[FUDU]

peeker, you have a dome, have you received any calls on building any hotels?

[Larvell Blanks]

Can't.
Never.
Won't.

Same Cleveland, Different Day.

Well find us the people who are going to build up hotels w/ NO GUARANTEE that these high profile events will fill up their hotels a week at a time or want want to share the current "visitors" with the existing hotels. No one opens a hotel to run at a > 50% occupancy, not if they want to run a successful business they don't.

Maybe, MAYBE the demand for hotel space will increase with the opening of the Medical Mart and Convo Center. That's all dependent on the business they bring. However the occupancy rates at the existing hotels will need to increase from the current 50-60% they're currently enjoying before any other hotel opens up.

[Spin]

You're playing the chicken and the egg game. It has to start somewhere. Indianapolis and Detroit and didn't just shit out a dome, hotels, and book events in one day.

The county stuck their junk out on the medical mart without a new hotel built, a single client signed on to lease space in the mart, trade shows booked, or conventions scheduled.

[Larvell Blanks]

You have to remember that both teams already played in domes prior to the new venues being built and both venues had hosted large events prior to the new digs. Indianapolis has been a growing city in terms of population and business for some time now while Cleveland has been on the decline in both population and the loss of business at an alarming rate. Thus their increase in convention business and need for hotel space.

Leadership in this area has just let things decline past the point of saving it and starts sticking bandaids on it. Upgrading or building a new convention center way back when would have elimnated the need and use of the IX Center and kept the business and travelers downtown rather than staying/playing out by the Airport. Then again, the leadership taxed the crap out of the businesses that they had no choice but to bail out to the 'burbs or leave the area all together.


The county could have combined a hotel into the MM/Convo area but them people would have cried they were monopolizing much like the claims of Rock Ohio/Gilbert w/ the Casino.

This city/county had an opportunity to do it right the first time by creating a retractable dome stadium/convo center/retail/hotel area along the lakeshore when CBS was first built. Yet fans were up in arms b/c there was no way they would watch football in a sanitized environment on Sundays.

Now as a fix, they'll ask the public to foot some of the bill to help bail them out

It's typical Cleveland in being reactionary rather than proactive.

[Spin]

You're right, I was just hoping someone in town would be proactive.

Speaking of the city, I still firmly believe they (especially Michael White) have dirt on their hands for screwing the Browns. Funny how White was MIA the week after fArt died...

[Spin]

Maybe we should ask those Buffalo fans buying all of the tickets if they want a dome or not? It's pretty sad to get more fans the competitor three hours away...

By December Byers Field will be a more appropriate size stadium. And cheaper to dome.

[Hikohadon]

Maybe we should ask those Buffalo fans buying all of the tickets if they want a dome or not? It's pretty sad to get more fans the competitor three hours away...

By December Byers Field will be a more appropriate size stadium. And cheaper to dome.

Are you allergic to air or something?

[Spin]

Catching sarcasm isn't your strong point is it?

[Hikohadon]

Catching sarcasm isn't your strong point is it?

Oh, I got it.

Your sarcastic remark was pinned onto a thread which was for all intents dead and in which you were already quite bitter about rooflessness.

So it occurred to me that this is something personal with you.

Like the way I randomly open that thread about Florida just to bitch about it some more.

[Spin]

Not bitter. Especially seeing the quality of the Browns (two words that are rarely used in the same sentence), and the lack of homer attendance at the games in September.

What is the point in doing anything to the dump, when being warm and dry isn't going to improve attendance anyway.

I am allowed to change my mind.

[Govbarney]

After going to the game this past Sunday, and being lucky enough to have a seat that was under cover (sec 121 row 39) I realized that CBS does not need a dome. It just needs some protection from the elements where the fans sit (like the majority of Muni used to have). Not sure how architecturally challenging it would be (got to be easier then a dome) but anyone who attended that game and had to sit exposed to the elements would tell you it would be worth looking into.

[Love child of shawn kemp]

After going to the game this past Sunday, and being lucky enough to have a seat that was under cover (sec 121 row 39) I realized that CBS does not need a dome. It just needs some protection from the elements where the fans sit (like the majority of Muni used to have). Not sure how architecturally challenging it would be (got to be easier then a dome) but anyone who attended that game and had to sit exposed to the elements would tell you it would be worth looking into.

You just have to hope you are not the one that gets stuck behind the pillar holding it up. One other thing, the bathroom lines are too long. There has to be a way to just make a trough that you could stand side by side with your fellow fans and have 20 peeing at once.

[Hikohadon]

After going to the game this past Sunday, and being lucky enough to have a seat that was under cover (sec 121 row 39) I realized that CBS does not need a dome. It just needs some protection from the elements where the fans sit (like the majority of Muni used to have). Not sure how architecturally challenging it would be (got to be easier then a dome) but anyone who attended that game and had to sit exposed to the elements would tell you it would be worth looking into.

I've thought about this as the only acceptable (for me) "roof" that they could put on the stadium - imagine it as a clear/glass saucer put over the stadium, a clear pot lid put over the stadium if you will with the center cut out. Overhang is light weight and supported by spines from the top of the stadium - no pillars. Overhang is also angled so that snow will slide off the back.

Offers a measure of protection to those in the stands without affecting play on the field, does not prevent wind, and the sun can shine through so you generally don't notice it's there.

Overhang also helps reverberate sound...

This ain't too far off:

[pod2dawg]

After going to the game this past Sunday, and being lucky enough to have a seat that was under cover (sec 121 row 39) I realized that CBS does not need a dome. It just needs some protection from the elements where the fans sit (like the majority of Muni used to have). Not sure how architecturally challenging it would be (got to be easier then a dome) but anyone who attended that game and had to sit exposed to the elements would tell you it would be worth looking into.

You just have to hope you are not the one that gets stuck behind the pillar holding it up. One other thing, the bathroom lines are too long. There has to be a way to just make a trough that you could stand side by side with your fellow fans and have 20 peeing at once.

I miss pissing in those bathtubs they used to have at Muni.

[swerb]

The best at old Muni was the line to piss in the garbage can in the corner of the bathroom.

[googleeph2]

I still firmly believe they (especially Michael White) have dirt on their hands for screwing the Browns. Funny how White was MIA the week after fArt died...

I would be surprised if you're not right. I don't get your point, though. That does not matter re: moving the Cleveland Browns.

Many a sports franchise has been screwed by many a city. Art's decisions stand on their own.

Art never made his case to the public, and failed to lobby for the 1995 renovation vote. He was in financial trouble, and the pupils in his eyes had transformed into glimmering dollar signs. Also, he already had lobbied to keep what became the Jaguars from taking his spot in Baltimore.

[Govbarney]

If i had a nickle for every time I heard a Clevelander reminisce about communal urination, I'd have enough money to buy stainless steel troughs for every sporting venue in Ohio.

That being said I was at Oakland Coliseum for a Tribe game this past summer, and I almost got teary eyed for how much that place reminded me of Muni, to include the pissing troughs.

[pod2dawg]

The best at old Muni was the line to piss in the garbage can in the corner of the bathroom.

I remember once seeing a line to piss in the sink........

[pup]

The line to piss on the passed out Steeler Fan still wins.

[motherscratcher]

The line to piss on the passed out Steeler Fan still wins.

It's too bad. You could never do that any more. Everyone with a camera phone, that would end up on YouTube before you zipped up. And then it's a few short months until your court date.

Brave new world.

[pod2dawg]

The line to piss on the passed out Steeler Fan still wins.

WINNER!

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

I was in line to piss in the trough once and heard a woman's voice from the front of the line

When I got up there she was pissing in a sink and chatting with the guys

[pod2dawg]

^^^^^^^ LOL!!

You have to appreciate the efficiency of the trough/bathtubs.......12 across.

[bookelly]

I once went to a very cold game where the guy next to me took the opportunity to be clever and pissed in the asile during a TD. He did not, however, account for the steam factor.

T'was hilarious. But this was old Browns, and he was a season ticket holder, and the ushers just laughed like the rest of us.