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Replacement refs

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Replacement refs

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:33 am

Where do fans draw the line?

It's already looking pretty bad...
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:44 am

You're asking where fans draw the line?

OK, you tell me exactly what you think the fans can do about any of it and I'll let you know where the line is.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:12 am

We're all still watching right? Stadiums are still packed. Everyone is still setting their fantasy lineups.

Replacement refs haven't had much of an affect on any of that but how much worse will fans let it get?

Or is the NFL at a point of popularity where on the field product doesn't matter?
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:29 am

Maybe if a couple Cowboys fans get upset about it, someone will finally realize this is a big deal and make some changes.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:03 am

So, I guess you're asking at what point do the fans get so upset about the refs that they stop going to games and turn off their tv?

The answer is pretty clearly "never".
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby General » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:24 am

Damn!! Just when the Browns are gearing up for another rebuild the replacement refs will derail the Super Bowl train.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:34 am

The NFL doesn't care because it is the fattest fucking fat fuck of all the fat fucking fucks.

That said, mattvan isn't the only person projecting a long term fall from glory for the NFL. The more people observe the silly rules, head injuries, stupid labor disputes (like this one!), and the league's being completely and utterly content with delivering a product that comes nowhere near what it was producing 20 years ago the more people are going to realize what a clusterfuck the league is.

Fantasy Football and Survivor Leagues can only carry you for so long. The NFL will probably always be the most watched sport, but there is a growing suspicion that the ridiculous margin it currently enjoys is going to shrink (in the long term, of course) and it makes sense.

So the answer is that today, right now, no one will turn their TVs off because they have fantasy stats to check or shit franchises to bitch to their balding middle-america friends about, but the NFL is certinaly doing its best to put it's future into question.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:35 am

Monday night was bad--Real bad, from the gameplay all the way down to the refs. I turned it off after the hour-long first quarter.

Replacement refs have been bad in general. But there's no point at which anyone's going to stop watching their team because of the replacement refs.

With Bountygate and this current debacle, Goodell looks like a freaking idiot/asshole which, he most definitely is. A logical person says 'Hey were taking too much heat from this situation, time to make some small concessions in order to get this done.' Goodell, more often times than not, is not logical.

I'll keep watching because right now, it's by far the best professional sport product on the planet.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:41 am

Anyone that can unequivocally state that the NFL is the best product (without at least admitting to a personal bias toward football) also believes Folgers is good coffee and really thinks McDonald's makes high quality burgers.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:06 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Anyone that can unequivocally state that the NFL is the best product (without at least admitting to a personal bias toward football) also believes Folgers is good coffee and really thinks McDonald's makes high quality burgers.


Not the best that it can be, as it could be a lot better.

Best as in: if I have to choose one pro sport right now to watch for the rest of my life based on current entertainment value, I'm going with the NFL.

With all the bullshit as far as concussions/rule changes and everything else the past few years... it really just doesn't phase me, because when it comes down to it on Sundays, it's just worth it plain and simple.

And honestly concussions refs and bounties don't rip at my insides like NCAA cheating does.

It's not perfect and it could easily be a lot better. But against any other sport collegiate or pro, the NFL is a head above the rest when it comes down to entertainment.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 am

Meh...its not the first time refs have made a mockery of the game or that a qtr lasted an hour...esp on Monday

MNF has sucked ass for decades and its by far the easiest game of the week to ignore, imo



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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:18 am

So again, you have a personal preference to the NFL. That doesn't equate to "The Best."

Use correct context and people may actually take what you write into consideration.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby LarsHancock » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:24 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Anyone that can unequivocally state that the NFL is the best product (without at least admitting to a personal bias toward football) also believes Folgers is good coffee and really thinks McDonald's makes high quality burgers.

And the NFL without the real refs is like Folgers without the crystals, or McD's without cheese.

But you know what? Yeah, the NFL is a soulless shell of the old days, but that spirit still lives in me. Exactly how I do enjoy a Royale with Cheese every now and then, and I can excuse the fact that places like B-Spot and Five Guys exist. Because Mickey D's was the penultimate thing when I was a kid, and it is easy to go back to that place.

Oh, btw, the NBA is Burger King and MLB is White Castle. Real life is B-Spot. That's why I record most games and watch them in about an hour (thanks skip ahead 30 feature), unless I'm watching with my family. Which makes the McD's the tasty treat of my youth again.

and re: replacement refs - talk to Vince McMahon about what integrity means to the bottom line. Heck, for all we know Goodell has intentionally modeled his tenure after McMahon, being the hated evil face of greed oppressing everyone below him with his capricious management. It seems to keep him in the limelight and keeps the talking heads buzzing about the NFL. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about, what, Tebow again? Baseball? Or focus on the product itself? No attention is bad attention, and Goodell is more than have the trashy bikini and tramp stamp of the replacement refs distract from the butterface of the product as a whole.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:27 pm

Maybe we need to secretly replace the replacement refs regular coffee with Folgers Crystals.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:51 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:So again, you have a personal preference to the NFL. That doesn't equate to "The Best."

Use correct context and people may actually take what you write into consideration.


I think the furvor for the NFL has to do with simple supply and demand. 16 NFL games vs. 162 baseball, 82 NBA etc. The product itself is far from perfect:
-frequent down time during games for TV timeouts, replay challenges etc which drive me insane especially when attending the games in person
-NFL restricts the dissemination of its product like no other sports league in the world
-officiating issues
-games in London and Canada
-legitimate health and safety concerns that are difficult to address
-leadership that looks less and less impartial and consistent with it's punishments to players and organizations etc

But it all boils down to both the hardcore and casual fans saying "what the Hell, there are only 8 home games this year" and making each one an event that cannot be missed. I make sure I'm not on the road or otherwise occupied during OSU or Browns games. Even when the Indians are winning, I feel like I can afford to miss a game or two. Basically, one should not confuse scarcity with perfection.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby General » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:21 pm

The NFL is excellent background noise for an afternoon at the bar.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:25 pm

There may be something that drives me off of the NFL someday, but it won't be replacement refs that will probably be gone by midseason.

This would do it though...

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/browns_owner_jimmy_haslam_meet.html#incart_river
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:41 pm

Hikohadon wrote:There may be something that drives me off of the NFL someday, but it won't be replacement refs that will probably be gone by midseason.

This would do it though...

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/browns_owner_jimmy_haslam_meet.html#incart_river

Who gives a shit if he puts a retractable roof up?
If it gets more revenue generated at the stadium, more power to him.

I've given up caring about shit like that. The Vikings proved what a homefield advantage the weather is and what happens when you lose it, so I doubt the roof would be up in inclement weather.

I could be dead nuts wrong, but there it is.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:21 pm

Agreed-

"Retractable" means it opens and closes (I think).

I have no issues if it's closed 360 days per year if maybe that brings conventions, NCAA Final Fours, jobs, maybe a Super Bowl down the road, etc.

If it's not going to do that then I have no interest but if it can lead to utilizing the building more for jobs and revenue while also allowing the football to be played through October with the roof open, well, feh and meh.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:23 pm

If it's paid for by even a cent of public funds Cleveland will deserve to get laughed at for eternity.

It takes a truly/spectacularly stupid city to use public funds on stadium anything these days.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby LarsHancock » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:05 pm

It would be awesome if we could open and close it at will. Like if we are kicking a FG into the wind, we can close the roof (heck, close it for the whole offensive drive) but open it up if the wind is at our back. Ugly storm? Close it for the offense, open for the D. Bad glare? Close it when the Browns are facing the sun. Heck, why not have rain pour out of the roof? Put an ice machine up there and make it hail. For $200M, it should be able to do all of this and more...
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:11 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:If it's paid for by even a cent of public funds Cleveland will deserve to get laughed at for eternity.

It takes a truly/spectacularly stupid city to use public funds on stadium anything these days.

Yeah but aren't the vast majority of stadiums these days subsidized to some degree?

That doesn't even get at the tax payer debt with stadiums no longer in use or torn down completely.

IOW, it's not just CTown that is being duped.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:13 pm

That vast majority have been, however, cities have started to wise up. It's becoming harder and harder to swindle cities into paying for stadiums/renovations when every single study ever made proves that cities never even come close to recouping the investment.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:17 pm

justmebd wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There may be something that drives me off of the NFL someday, but it won't be replacement refs that will probably be gone by midseason.

This would do it though...

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/browns_owner_jimmy_haslam_meet.html#incart_river

Who gives a shit if he puts a retractable roof up?
If it gets more revenue generated at the stadium, more power to him.

I've given up caring about shit like that. The Vikings proved what a homefield advantage the weather is and what happens when you lose it, so I doubt the roof would be up in inclement weather.

I could be dead nuts wrong, but there it is.


I could give a fuck if it's a homefield advantage or not. Dome football blows goats.

The Vikings are a perfect example. Can't watch their games normally. It's like they're playing on the moon. But when the Metrodome collapsed last year and they had to play outside... it was beautiful.

It's an aesthetic thing for me, and I have no desire to watch glorified Arena Football.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:18 pm

peeker643 wrote:Agreed-

"Retractable" means it opens and closes (I think).

I have no issues if it's closed 360 days per year if maybe that brings conventions, NCAA Final Fours, jobs, maybe a Super Bowl down the road, etc.

If it's not going to do that then I have no interest but if it can lead to utilizing the building more for jobs and revenue while also allowing the football to be played through October with the roof open, well, feh and meh.


I've always heard that no way Cleveland gets those events even with a dome since they don't have the hotel space infrastructure to support them. Not sure if that's true or not...
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:32 pm

Maybe they get the hotels and that crap too. I don't know. I honestly don't care one way or the other. If it makes the city a more feasible destination for concerts and events and all that shit then I'm okay with it. But I do 100% agree with the aesthetics argument. I hate watching games in dimly illuminated domes too.

Baseball more so, but it applies to football as well.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:39 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Agreed-

"Retractable" means it opens and closes (I think).

I have no issues if it's closed 360 days per year if maybe that brings conventions, NCAA Final Fours, jobs, maybe a Super Bowl down the road, etc.

If it's not going to do that then I have no interest but if it can lead to utilizing the building more for jobs and revenue while also allowing the football to be played through October with the roof open, well, feh and meh.


I've always heard that no way Cleveland gets those events even with a dome since they don't have the hotel space infrastructure to support them. Not sure if that's true or not...

It is a legit issue, but one that growth can remedy. I used to go to a convention every year in Milwaukee. Then it moved to Indianapolis because it "outgrew" what the City of Milwaukee could support.

I do think Cleveland can support a final four event. Super Bowl? Not too sure on that one at this point in time.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:23 pm

To never see this again would be a tragedy.

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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:25 pm

Fuck that game, I got snowed in Cleveland after a wedding and then snowed in on my lay-over.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:28 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:That vast majority have been, however, cities have started to wise up. It's becoming harder and harder to swindle cities into paying for stadiums/renovations when every single study ever made proves that cities never even come close to recouping the investment.


Does "the vast majority" include the worst run city ever?
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:48 am

One of the most memorable games I've been to, for sure.

But 'tragedy'?

How many other games have you been to?
Out of those, how many other games memorable for the weather as opposed to the shitty QB play?

I honestly can't remember another game I've attended where the weather was the story. Not when I worked there or before that or, really, since then other than the game you have there (and I have a pic that I use for twitter background from my seats in pound too).



Hikohadon wrote:To never see this again would be a tragedy.

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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:02 am

I have two weather related memories from the New Browns Stadium

1. Watching starting Browns quarterback Luke McNown sprint toward the lockerroom, while time was still winding on the clock, to get to a warm lockeroom during the Chargers "blizzard" game. My brother and I shook our heads and chuckled, than looked at each other and sadi, "man are we assholes for being here." We left at the half, figuring if the starting QB was too cold, the team might be in trouble.

2. Walking back to the car after Swerbs tailgate for the Steelers Sunday night game, when all of the sudden monsoon winds picked up and shit was blowing everywhere. The wife was worrying about getting hit by debris, Leadman was worried about getting home in time to get down on the under.

So, let the dumb city roof it and go into more debt. It'll give that fat ass Big Dawg another chance to shine.

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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Love child of shawn kemp » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:05 am

Love that pic. 2 Jamal Lewis jerseys, 1 Jurevicious and 1 that looks like Courtney Brown. Almost rivals my Quinn, Couch and William Green collection.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:47 am

peeker643 wrote:One of the most memorable games I've been to, for sure.

But 'tragedy'?

How many other games have you been to?
Out of those, how many other games memorable for the weather as opposed to the shitty QB play?

I honestly can't remember another game I've attended where the weather was the story. Not when I worked there or before that or, really, since then other than the game you have there (and I have a pic that I use for twitter background from my seats in pound too).



Hikohadon wrote:To never see this again would be a tragedy.




The Thursday night Pittsburgh game a few years ago when it was so cold the beer froze after 3 minutes in a cup. We won that game against those in-breds and knocked them out of the playoffs because of it. Diehard fans at that one and a signature Cribbs game.

That is my favorite highlight game since we returned with the Falcons win to make the playoffs and the Seahawks win a year before the Steelers win being behind that.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:52 am

I guess my point is if the weather is a factor in the enjoyment or the memories then your football team truly blows.

If the Browns were winning divisions and playoff games my enjoyment wouldn't be affected by where I was watching that. I'd prefer an outdoor setting by a wide margin but watching winning football indoors would be fine and watching losing football indoors would still blow.

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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:29 pm

peeker643 wrote:One of the most memorable games I've been to, for sure.

But 'tragedy'?

How many other games have you been to?
Out of those, how many other games memorable for the weather as opposed to the shitty QB play?

I honestly can't remember another game I've attended where the weather was the story. Not when I worked there or before that or, really, since then other than the game you have there (and I have a pic that I use for twitter background from my seats in pound too).



I see your point peeker but IMO even in the heyday of the Kosar years (when being good was the best part) weather certainly fit into the memories, just b/c. The playoff game v. the Oilers (in which we had like 38 last minute onside kick attempts), just as one example.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:45 pm

peeker643 wrote:One of the most memorable games I've been to, for sure.

But 'tragedy'?

How many other games have you been to?
Out of those, how many other games memorable for the weather as opposed to the shitty QB play?

I honestly can't remember another game I've attended where the weather was the story. Not when I worked there or before that or, really, since then other than the game you have there (and I have a pic that I use for twitter background from my seats in pound too)


::doh::

Are you like this around your family, or do you just get it out here so they don't kill you in your sleep?

How about we put it this way so you can't find something about it to introduce argument:

If the Browns are sucking, I'd rather them suck outside in a blizzard, because it's enjoyable to watch snow football.

If the Browns are awesome, I'd rather them be awesome outside in a blizzard, because it's enjoyable to watch snow football.

If I'm watching a game between Southwest Montana Tech and Sarah Palin State, I'd find it more interesting if it were played in a mini-hurricane rather than a standard pleasant day.

The weather doesn't have to be the "story" for me to enjoy a game played in nasty conditions. It doesn't happen all that often - if it did, then it'd be mundane and I'd be more fine with capping the bitch.

But then you're talking to someone who watches every football game outside even at home, no matter what's coming out of the sky.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:35 am

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:One of the most memorable games I've been to, for sure.

But 'tragedy'?

How many other games have you been to?
Out of those, how many other games memorable for the weather as opposed to the shitty QB play?

I honestly can't remember another game I've attended where the weather was the story. Not when I worked there or before that or, really, since then other than the game you have there (and I have a pic that I use for twitter background from my seats in pound too)


::doh::

Are you like this around your family, or do you just get it out here so they don't kill you in your sleep?

How about we put it this way so you can't find something about it to introduce argument:

If the Browns are sucking, I'd rather them suck outside in a blizzard, because it's enjoyable to watch snow football.

If the Browns are awesome, I'd rather them be awesome outside in a blizzard, because it's enjoyable to watch snow football.

If I'm watching a game between Southwest Montana Tech and Sarah Palin State, I'd find it more interesting if it were played in a mini-hurricane rather than a standard pleasant day.

The weather doesn't have to be the "story" for me to enjoy a game played in nasty conditions. It doesn't happen all that often - if it did, then it'd be mundane and I'd be more fine with capping the bitch.

But then you're talking to someone who watches every football game outside even at home, no matter what's coming out of the sky.



Ohhh.... I get it. Thank you for setting it straight.

You're right... that would absolutely tragic.

Chardon school shooting...Aurora, CO theater killings and Hiko not getting to watch the game being played outdoors.

;-) ;) :wink:


See how that 'context' game swings back and forth? :dingle:

You'll follow the Browns inside as well as out.

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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:01 am

Well, since it ain't gonna happen, I guess we'll never have to find out.
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Re: Replacement refs

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:07 am

Hikohadon wrote:Well, since it ain't gonna happen, I guess we'll never have to find out.



Which is also more than fine with me. Like I said, I hate watching games from inside. It's dark first of all. Forget weather or whatever...it's dark and anti-septic and blech...some domes more than others.

But I still watch.

Hell, if you can watch what we've watched, inside or outside, for the last 13 years here, you can watch anything.

I could watch a puppy being put through a paper shredder and not be affected emotionally, thanks solely to my years as a Browns fan.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

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