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Modell Is Dead

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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:49 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/cleveland_browns_will_give_app.html

BEREA, Ohio - After giving it careful thought, the Browns have decided to give some type of appropriate recognition to the passing of Art Modell during the pregame of Sunday's opener against the Philadelphia Eagles.

"We're trying strike the right balance,'' Browns spokesman Neal Gulkis said today. "We want to show respect and dignity for Modell's family, the community and the fans.''

Gulkis did not specify whether it would be a moment of silence or something else, but the Browns are trying to be respectful of their fans who are still angry at Modell for moving the team to Baltimore in 1996.



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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:56 pm

They'll put "Art Modell, 1925-2012" on the jumbotron... for 2 seconds.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:They'll put "Art Modell, 1925-2012" on the jumbotron... for 2 seconds.


In the middle of a play, so nobody's paying attention to it.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby fairvis » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:28 pm



Passan pretty much nailed it for me. Also, the front page coverage of all of this has been really amazing.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby idoctribefan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:12 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/cleveland_browns_will_give_app.html

BEREA, Ohio - After giving it careful thought, the Browns have decided to give some type of appropriate recognition to the passing of Art Modell during the pregame of Sunday's opener against the Philadelphia Eagles.

"We're trying strike the right balance,'' Browns spokesman Neal Gulkis said today. "We want to show respect and dignity for Modell's family, the community and the fans.''

Gulkis did not specify whether it would be a moment of silence or something else, but the Browns are trying to be respectful of their fans who are still angry at Modell for moving the team to Baltimore in 1996.



:pop:


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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Where in the Pound Hiko? I'm in 119 about 15 rows up and it's the best angle I had since standing on the sidelines. Loves that view of the game.


I think it was right around there. I had a hard time seeing what was going on at the far end of the field, and it seemed like the whole game took place down there. Spent more than a little time watching the jumbotron.


I like the "upper pound" seats. You're basically in the same seat as the all-22 tape records from. Great way to see the whole field on every play, passing trees, running lanes etc.


See, I think I'd prefer that. We were almost too low.


Swing up anytime. There are usually plenty of good seats around us by the 3rd quarter.


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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby pup » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:27 pm

Now that Dave the coc head has asked us to not have a tribute, i would have it.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby gotribe31 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:39 pm

pup wrote:Now that Dave the coc head has asked us to not have a tribute, i would have it.


Now THAT would be funny.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby municipalmutt » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:13 pm

This only demonstrates how out of touch this regime is towards the average fan. They were that fucking naive to believe there wouldn't be some fan backlash at a forced tribute to a scumbag piece of shit that would have been the sports equivalent of honoring Hitler at Auschwitz?

Heckgren should have refused a tribute to the lying bastard from the beginning. If anyone believes that the Modell family did this somehow out of compassion to Brownsfan and not some self serving interest they deserve to eat the bullshit being spooned to them.

It is times like this that some soul searching is needed to figure out why in the fuck I still follow team.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:04 pm

municipalmutt wrote:This only demonstrates how out of touch this regime is towards the average fan. They were that fucking naive to believe there wouldn't be some fan backlash at a forced tribute to a scumbag piece of shit that would have been the sports equivalent of honoring Hitler at Auschwitz?

Heckgren should have refused a tribute to the lying bastard from the beginning. If anyone believes that the Modell family did this somehow out of compassion to Brownsfan and not some self serving interest they deserve to eat the bullshit being spooned to them.

It is times like this that some soul searching is needed to figure out why in the fuck I still follow team.


So let me make sure I'm getting this right - your take is that when the NFL mandated that all teams have a moment of silence, Holmgren should've refused?
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Bigfist » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:01 am

Hikohadon wrote:
municipalmutt wrote:This only demonstrates how out of touch this regime is towards the average fan. They were that fucking naive to believe there wouldn't be some fan backlash at a forced tribute to a scumbag piece of shit that would have been the sports equivalent of honoring Hitler at Auschwitz?

Heckgren should have refused a tribute to the lying bastard from the beginning. If anyone believes that the Modell family did this somehow out of compassion to Brownsfan and not some self serving interest they deserve to eat the bullshit being spooned to them.

It is times like this that some soul searching is needed to figure out why in the fuck I still follow team.


So let me make sure I'm getting this right - your take is that when the NFL mandated that all teams have a moment of silence, Holmgren should've refused?


I have no idea what Homgren said, but what he SHOULD have said is "with all due repsect Mr. Goodell, if we honor that lying, dastardly piece of s*** in Cleveland, we will have a riot on our hands. Is that what you want?"
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:20 am

Like I told my ex-wife......." Once you betray me, you are dead to me."

The end.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby municipalmutt » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:27 am

Hikohadon wrote: So let me make sure I'm getting this right - your take is that when the NFL mandated that all teams have a moment of silence, Holmgren should've refused?


Let me get this straight. Your take is that to be a link in a chain of stupidity is preferable? "I was only following orders" is really something that is correct in this situation? Wow. Just wow.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:36 am

municipalmutt wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: So let me make sure I'm getting this right - your take is that when the NFL mandated that all teams have a moment of silence, Holmgren should've refused?


Let me get this straight. Your take is that to be a link in a chain of stupidity is preferable? "I was only following orders" is really something that is correct in this situation? Wow. Just wow.


EOD it worked out exactly right - no tribute at CBS where 70,000 stand and boo for 2 minutes which gets replayed ad nauseum on the WWL.

BTW, what makes you think Holmgren is on the side of Joe Fan on this? Dude was in Green Bay at the time. Now he's a zillionaire who wants out of Cleveland asap. Plus the father of his boss was complicit in the move. Holmgren sides with the NFL 100 times out of 100.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:09 pm

municipalmutt wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: So let me make sure I'm getting this right - your take is that when the NFL mandated that all teams have a moment of silence, Holmgren should've refused?


Let me get this straight. Your take is that to be a link in a chain of stupidity is preferable? "I was only following orders" is really something that is correct in this situation? Wow. Just wow.


My take is that you are naive if you think that any front office would willfully defy the NFL on this matter.

My take is also - as Matt pointed out - it's highly doubtful that Holmgren, Heckert, or Haslam feels about Art the way the fans do. They probably think he deserves to be honored.

I also think they were perfectly aware how a moment of silence would have gone and were planning something else (something subtle) so they could do what they were told an still not piss off the fans. Like put his name on the jumbotron for 5 seconds a half hour before the game.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby rk » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:49 pm

He died without having kept his team in his family's hands which is the primary reason he moved rather than sell. Moving may have netted him a little more money - but not much - but definitely kept him out of the Hall. I was relatively indifferent to him dying other than now having a little more concern that the NFL will try to sneak him into the Hall hoping that it's easier with him dead than when he was alive.

I do not think I'm going to go pee on his grave like I would have a few years ago. It is not because I've grown or become less upset over the move - just that the football legacy he wanted has been diminished enough that I no longer think it's worth the effort.

Hikohadon wrote:My take is that you are naive if you think that any front office would willfully defy the NFL on this matter.


Why? What would the NFL do? Fine the Browns? Fine Holmgren? It's not like they're about to do anything that would really effect the Browns and the NFL owners/gms could give two craps what the Browns did or did not do on Sunday regarding Modell.

If I was running the Browns and got a call saying we had to honor him I would have laughed until the person calling hung up.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:02 pm

I'm going to keep bumping this thread. It makes me happy.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:38 am

Now that Art is long gone, the truth can come out.



http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2012/09/art_modell_gateway_stadium.html

Not that this story/rumor hasn't been out there since the Move. The fact that no one wanted to hurt Art's feelings by bringing this up while he was still kicking says alot.



Looking at the "proposed" site, it looks like the Browns were an afterthought having their stadium on the dead side on the Inner Belt. There was nothing else around there where you could develop other real estate, the Post Office on Orange was not going to be relocated. Essentially that Browns Stadium would have been cut off from the Gateway Entertainment district.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:08 am

Larvell Blanks wrote:Now that Art is long gone, the truth can come out.



http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2012/09/art_modell_gateway_stadium.html

Not that this story/rumor hasn't been out there since the Move. The fact that no one wanted to hurt Art's feelings by bringing this up while he was still kicking says alot.



Looking at the "proposed" site, it looks like the Browns were an afterthought having their stadium on the dead side on the Inner Belt. There was nothing else around there where you could develop other real estate, the Post Office on Orange was not going to be relocated. Essentially that Browns Stadium would have been cut off from the Gateway Entertainment district.


This actually tells you why the guy left.

F him and all, cause he handled it wrong, but it was "Hold on Art" for years, along with offers that put him a clear third among the garbage sports teams in the city.

Not to mention, the article doesn't have a whole lot of truth to it - unless you're going to take Cleveland Politician's words for it - which probably sn't a good idea.

Just like the city to claim the had zero culpability.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:22 am

rk wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:My take is that you are naive if you think that any front office would willfully defy the NFL on this matter.


Why? What would the NFL do? Fine the Browns? Fine Holmgren? It's not like they're about to do anything that would really effect the Browns and the NFL owners/gms could give two craps what the Browns did or did not do on Sunday regarding Modell.

If I was running the Browns and got a call saying we had to honor him I would have laughed until the person calling hung up.


But you don't. And you never would, because the Good Ol' Boys wouldn't let you unless they knew you would play ball.

Generally, if you're a billionaire, you know how to play ball.

So, yes, it is naive to believe that any of the NFL Owners would do this, especially ones not personally affected by The Move. No way Lerner, Holmgren, or Haslam turn in their NFL Country Club Membership for an empty gesture to appease the proletariat.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:33 am

^
This


Only in Cleveland do we have Joe Six Pack owner who understands the fan perspective and is willing to go to bat for them.

:lmfao:
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:05 am

Larvell Blanks wrote:Looking at the "proposed" site, it looks like the Browns were an afterthought having their stadium on the dead side on the Inner Belt. There was nothing else around there where you could develop other real estate, the Post Office on Orange was not going to be relocated. Essentially that Browns Stadium would have been cut off from the Gateway Entertainment district.


Its not like the corner of Carnegie and Ontario was Las Vegas Boulevard prior to the gateway development.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:24 am

Govbarney wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:Looking at the "proposed" site, it looks like the Browns were an afterthought having their stadium on the dead side on the Inner Belt. There was nothing else around there where you could develop other real estate, the Post Office on Orange was not going to be relocated. Essentially that Browns Stadium would have been cut off from the Gateway Entertainment district.


Its not like the corner of Carnegie and Ontario was Las Vegas Boulevard prior to the gateway development.



But you had an area to build into up and down Prospect Ave and the surrounding streets. It wasn't much of a problem to build a restaurant into an existing building. It's proximity to Gund Arena/Jacobs Field was much more inviting with year round entertainment a stones throw away.

South of the Inner Belt was a railway yard, the post office and a hill leading into the industrial Flats. An area much too expensive to build from the ground up only to get business 8-10 times per year.
Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:37 am

Larvell Blanks wrote:^
This


Only in Cleveland do we have Joe Six Pack owner who understands the fan perspective and is willing to go to bat for them.

:lmfao:


And suffer nationally (and even locally) for it.

Betcha he doesn't do that again.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby rk » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:52 am

I haven't looked at the article yet but this is how I recall the events happened:

-Modell proposed a dual-purpose stadium kicking off the beginnings of the Gateway project
-Politicians went to Indians and asked if they liked it
-Indians came back and said they were not willing to accept a dual-purpose and proposed stadium/field
-Politicians agreed and prioritized Indians who became primary focus of first stage of Gateway
-Modell, who wanted to continue getting the rent money, went into full tilt and said screw you guys, I'm out.

I believe by the time the politicians did offer him something close to a concrete proposal for a new stadium it was already too late. Modell had to either sell immediately or move and could no longer wait. He refused to sell because he felt the Browns were his son's birthright and he felt if he moved he could survive as owner.

So it is incorrect for the politicians to lay it out like they are. They did decide that the Browns and Modell could wait and that the Indians were the higher priority because they were confident Modell was overstating his financial needs (after all they knew how much money was going to him and couldn't fathom how it was being used up) and would never move the Browns.

But he was not bluffing. He had one hand to play and he played it.

The problems with Modell come from how he acted up to that point, squandering the money (particularly money earmarked for the upkeep of Muni), unwilling to lose majority ownership, and his ego once it became obvious that the city of Cleveland prioritized the Indians over the Browns because they felt the former was more likely to bolt than the latter.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:16 am

Larvell Blanks wrote:
Govbarney wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:Looking at the "proposed" site, it looks like the Browns were an afterthought having their stadium on the dead side on the Inner Belt. There was nothing else around there where you could develop other real estate, the Post Office on Orange was not going to be relocated. Essentially that Browns Stadium would have been cut off from the Gateway Entertainment district.


Its not like the corner of Carnegie and Ontario was Las Vegas Boulevard prior to the gateway development.



But you had an area to build into up and down Prospect Ave and the surrounding streets. It wasn't much of a problem to build a restaurant into an existing building. It's proximity to Gund Arena/Jacobs Field was much more inviting with year round entertainment a stones throw away.

South of the Inner Belt was a railway yard, the post office and a hill leading into the industrial Flats. An area much too expensive to build from the ground up only to get business 8-10 times per year.


They built that whole "steel yard" shopping complex south of the inner-belt, If you have something like a NFL Football stadium to draw people developers will build.

Only reason that does not occur around the current Browns stadium is because the port authority owns all the land around the stadium.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:25 am

^ Again, where the "proposed" site is, there was really no area to build as the Stadium plus parking would take up most/all of the space that is up level to the rest of Gateway. From there the area grades downward and wouldn't seem to be appealing to developing a restaurant as you'd be hidden behind the stadium and stuck down a hill rather than be up in the area of Ontario/Broadway and Orange Avenue. The only usable land up there is where the Main Post Office for downtown currently resides plus the detention center which was in use at that time.

No matter, the point is moot.
Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby rk » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:06 pm

Just read the article and that is the story I had heard multiple times. The problem with the article is they don't emphasize the timeline. Modell was broke. He needed a new stadium ASAP and he needed to be compensated for the loss of revenue he'd lose on the Indians moving to their own field and out of his stadium company.

They prioritized the Jake then either Gund Arena or the Gateway Stadium. Frankly they did so because Jacobs embraced Gateway fully. Modell wanted to be the kingpin and was insulted that the city would prioritize anyone over the Browns. Outside of the ego issues he simply couldn't wait because he was broke and IIRC the thought at the time was that the NFL would not allow any owner to go bankrupt so reorganizing his finances was not an option and the NFL itself didn't have the capability of extending financing.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby rk » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:11 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:^ Again, where the "proposed" site is, there was really no area to build as the Stadium plus parking would take up most/all of the space that is up level to the rest of Gateway. From there the area grades downward and wouldn't seem to be appealing to developing a restaurant as you'd be hidden behind the stadium and stuck down a hill rather than be up in the area of Ontario/Broadway and Orange Avenue. The only usable land up there is where the Main Post Office for downtown currently resides plus the detention center which was in use at that time.

No matter, the point is moot.


Just curious but have you driven down Broadway/Orange in the past week? Because they are finally using that space between the innerbelt and the post office.

I don't know if it's big enough for a stadium but it seems close particularly if they bought out the black oxide place that billows smoke nonstop right off the split.

Parking would be aggravating, and impossible on days when the Indians and Browns play, but would not be much worse than current Browns only days. Likely a few new lots would have sprung up to compensate.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:40 pm

^ that area is being utilized now as an entrance and exit to the new Inner Belt Bridge project plus a road down to the Industrial Flats. Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened to the new bridge project if Browns Stadium was currently there
Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby jfiling » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Someone who remembers more can maybe shed more light on this or correct me, but I remember hearing that the Gunds were more than happy in Richfield and had to be bribed to be part of the Gateway project. There was also something to do with a provision in the Gateway project that any event that could be held in a Gateway facility had to by law. My memory is fuzzy on this, and for all I know it's something I heard on the radio that is total BS. Just wondering if anyone else can fill in the blanks.
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Re: Modell Is Dead

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:48 pm

rk wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:^ Again, where the "proposed" site is, there was really no area to build as the Stadium plus parking would take up most/all of the space that is up level to the rest of Gateway. From there the area grades downward and wouldn't seem to be appealing to developing a restaurant as you'd be hidden behind the stadium and stuck down a hill rather than be up in the area of Ontario/Broadway and Orange Avenue. The only usable land up there is where the Main Post Office for downtown currently resides plus the detention center which was in use at that time.

No matter, the point is moot.


Just curious but have you driven down Broadway/Orange in the past week? Because they are finally using that space between the innerbelt and the post office.

I don't know if it's big enough for a stadium but it seems close particularly if they bought out the black oxide place that billows smoke nonstop right off the split.

Parking would be aggravating, and impossible on days when the Indians and Browns play, but would not be much worse than current Browns only days. Likely a few new lots would have sprung up to compensate.


I have (every day), and its basically being used as a redirection of Broadway and Commercial. That, and as an area for construction material and dirt to be dumped. No way you fit a stadium back there, no way at all...

If you remember that area before the recent road work it was basically a falling apart Rockwell Avenue Bridge.
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