Week 1: Browns vs Eagles

[peeker643]

I'm with you on Barkley. He does nothing for me. But there's a chance you'll have to do something at that spot. Might as well give him a try. If it doesn't work there's 2014.

We'll just step by your crybaby comments about being called a crybaby...

Unless Weeden is just awful all season, there's little chance they draft a QB in the 1st anyway, but even if you do you don't re-draft Colt McCoy at the top of the 2013 draft when you could just suck with the current Colt McCoy for free. There will be better QB's than Barkley available. He's just the only one a lot of people have name recognition with.

Good point.

Guys like Tannehill and Weeden weren't close to being on anyone's 1st round radar last year at this time and look how well things turned out for those guys!!!

They made bank when someone was stone cold stupid enough to go get them early!!

Ugh.... I can't imagine the OBR site right now. It'd be worth joining just to read it.

Meh... no it wouldn't.

[trsteve1]

Fuck Weeden already. Shit.

lol.. he was awful


I can't decide if I'm happy that I was right that it was a shit pick..

or if I'm mad that the Brown's made that awful of a pick and he sucks..
(btw, really hoping T-Rich isn't a bust.. cause, he already was high on the bust potential (by a lot of pundits) and he didn't do much to disagree)

I really wanted him to at least be decent, NFL average..

w/e Holmgren/Heckert did well for restocking the D
while they gave up a lot of yards (mostly because they were constantly gassed from the offense insistence that 3 and outs were IN fashion) the timing and quantity of the turnovers was fantastic!

Of course, H & H have about 0% chance of saving their jobs with Haslem coming in (can't see him not bringing in new guys).. so.. w/e

I'm with you on Barkley. He does nothing for me. But there's a chance you'll have to do something at that spot. Might as well give him a try. If it doesn't work there's 2014.

We'll just step by your crybaby comments about being called a crybaby...

Unless Weeden is just awful all season, there's little chance they draft a QB in the 1st anyway, but even if you do you don't re-draft Colt McCoy at the top of the 2013 draft when you could just suck with the current Colt McCoy for free. There will be better QB's than Barkley available. He's just the only one a lot of people have name recognition with.

Good point.

Guys like Tannehill and Weeden weren't close to being on anyone's 1st round radar last year at this time and look how well things turned out for those guys!!!

They made bank when someone was stone cold stupid enough to go get them early!!

Ugh.... I can't imagine the OBR site right now. It'd be worth joining just to read it.

Meh... no it wouldn't.

Other than Luck, who was on anyone's radar?
RGIII sure wasn't, and he looks beyond legit (of course, that NO secondary hasn't been even close to average since their SB run)..

There will without a doubt be players who show up that are rated highly for the 1st round..

I agree though, Barkley is nothing special.. and would likely be a bust at no. 1 (if he even gets taken no. 1)

[Hikohadon]

The quarterback they selected with a first round pick was possibly historically pathetic. I honestly cannot remember a sadder performance from the Freys, DAs, Quinns and Colts of the world. Some as bad? Maybe. None notably worse though.

It would be hard to be worse. I remember the Steelers win by Brady Quinn at the end of 2009 was pretty bad. Then there was a game where DA completed one pass all day.

But that was fuckin' ugly. My biggest worry for Weeden now is that it seems he mentally gets frazzled and then becomes fuckin' useless. At which point putting Cribbs at QB would be more effective.

The Eagles stacked the line just like they do against Colt. You can't run out of that. You can't run at all. You have to throw out of it. And just like Colt before him, Weeds showed absolutely no ability to do that.

[General]

They still and will always suck

[peeker643]

The quarterback they selected with a first round pick was possibly historically pathetic. I honestly cannot remember a sadder performance from the Freys, DAs, Quinns and Colts of the world. Some as bad? Maybe. None notably worse though.

It would be hard to be worse. I remember the Steelers win by Brady Quinn at the end of 2009 was pretty bad. Then there was a game where DA completed one pass all day.

But that was fuckin' ugly. My biggest worry for Weeden now is that it seems he mentally gets frazzled and then becomes fuckin' useless. At which point putting Cribbs at QB would be more effective.

The Eagles stacked the line just like they do against Colt. You can't run out of that. You can't run at all. You have to throw out of it. And just like Colt before him, Weeds showed absolutely no ability to do that.

Well, he throws the ball harder and farther than Colt. His INTs seem to be at least 15-20 yards further down field than Colt's. That field possession may help the defense if opposing coaches continue to refuse to give the football to their best player.

So there's that.

[Hikohadon]

Good point.

Guys like Tannehill and Weeden weren't close to being on anyone's 1st round radar last year at this time and look how well things turned out for those guys!!!

They made bank when someone was stone cold stupid enough to go get them early!!

Ugh.... I can't imagine the OBR site right now. It'd be worth joining just to read it.

Meh... no it wouldn't.

You could say the same thing about RG3. Or Cam Newton the year before that.

Guys climb. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not.

I wouldn't go near the Cooler today for all the ouzo in Greece. You think you guys are crybabies? You can't touch the Cooler with a 75 foot pole.

[leadpipe]

Hiko,
Not sure what the argument is here. What's really the difference between saying "The Browns are the worst" and "the Browns really suck." If the first staement is untrue, but the second one is, well, what's the difference.

What will determine who is the "worst" out of the teams that will win 3 or 4 games...I'm not really sure. But the Browns will be one of those teams, and there's no real difference to me if they get a lucky bounce or two and are one of the better 3-4 win teams in the standings, or the worst one.

And of course part of this goes with the territory of starting the rookie and dealing with things, but as I said last week, I hope they are aware that Brandon Weeden - or anyone else for that matter that has not played organized football for years, is going to take significant time, even if he is good, to get up to speed. Never in my life have I seena bigger joke than Big 12 defense the last several years, and I haven't seen a pro QB worth a damn come out of there either. Damn near impossible to play a schedule in a major conference in which you face one pass defense in the top sixty. hose two years of tape are worthless. Practice footage from an SEC QB would tell you much more. Now, these guys scout more QBs than a hump like me behind a keyboard, but good holy Christ, the guy has, and will continue to play the game like he's never seen it before - cause he hasn't seen anything close.

So, good moves or bad, influx of talent or not, you've still got a thin team talentwise who is going to run a guy out there at the most important position who is going to be more than overwhelmed, or in layman's terms, really bad. It will all add up to a team that sucks.

Don't know if it'll be the "worst"

It just is what it is.

[Hikohadon]

Hiko,
Not sure what the argument is here. What's really the difference between saying "The Browns are the worst" and "the Browns really suck." If the first staement is untrue, but the second one is, well, what's the difference.

What will determine who is the "worst" out of the teams that will win 3 or 4 games...I'm not really sure. But the Browns will be one of those teams, and there's no real difference to me if they get a lucky bounce or two and are one of the better 3-4 win teams in the standings, or the worst one.

And of course part of this goes with the territory of starting the rookie and dealing with things, but as I said last week, I hope they are aware that Brandon Weeden - or anyone else for that matter that has not played organized football for years, is going to take significant time, even if he is good, to get up to speed. Never in my life have I seena bigger joke than Big 12 defense the last several years, and I haven't seen a pro QB worth a damn come out of there either. Damn near impossible to play a schedule in a major conference in which you face one pass defense in the top sixty. hose two years of tape are worthless. Practice footage from an SEC QB would tell you much more. Now, these guys scout more QBs than a hump like me behind a keyboard, but good holy Christ, the guy has, and will continue to play the game like he's never seen it before - cause he hasn't seen anything close.

So, good moves or bad, influx of talent or not, you've still got a thin team talentwise who is going to run a guy out there at the most important position who is going to be more than overwhelmed, or in layman's terms, really bad. It will all add up to a team that sucks.

Don't know if it'll be the "worst"

It just is what it is.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[trsteve1]

Surmur's biggest mistake?

Not giving Weeden playing time in game 4 in the preseason.
I mean seriously, did he really think the kid (lol, can you really call a 28 year old 'kid') was ready?
He is clearly ef'd in the head, and has as much a clue as Mangidiot did.

[peeker643]

Good point.

Guys like Tannehill and Weeden weren't close to being on anyone's 1st round radar last year at this time and look how well things turned out for those guys!!!

They made bank when someone was stone cold stupid enough to go get them early!!

Ugh.... I can't imagine the OBR site right now. It'd be worth joining just to read it.

Meh... no it wouldn't.

You could say the same thing about RG3. Or Cam Newton the year before that.

You don't seem to be willing to come to terms with the fact that those guys throw the ball as well as Weeden, are far more athletic and can add an element he never could and never will.

That's kind of important.

Wondering how many guys through out NFL and draft history have 'risen' to #22 in the 1st round and been handed a starting job.

The problem with you comparing the rise of RGIII and Cam to the 'rise' of Weeden is the problem. I know you see the difference. Even if you don't want to rationalize it, believe or acknowledge how ludicrous the pick was. It will be more evident every week. That's my fear and always has been.

He needs to play. Don't get me wrong. Maybe he's the kid who crashed his car the day he got his license and went on to be the greatest driver ever.

Or maybe he's the kid that crashed his car the day he got his license, then twice more that year and then he died when he crashed his car again.

[Hikohadon]

Surmur's biggest mistake?

Not giving Weeden playing time in game 4 in the preseason.
I mean seriously, did he really think the kid (lol, can you really call a 28 year old 'kid') was ready?
He is clearly ef'd in the head, and has as much a clue as Mangidiot did.

I'm not sure any mistake he makes will be bigger than being massively predictable in the run, not using any screens when the Eagles started crashing the line, not using the TE's over the middle, having the WR's run nothing but slants, calling a play where you have both Benjamin and Mo Mass running the same go route in the same area...

[General]

I am tired of being objective about this. The franchise is a disgusting mockery of a real NFL franchise.

[jerryroche]

If the Browns were simply "awful" enough, Andrew Luck or RG3 would have been starting for them today.

And who's to say that Luck or RG3 would do any better running the Browns' antiquated, milquetoast offense?

[peeker643]

I am tired of being objective about this. The franchise is a disgusting mockery of a real NFL franchise.

There's a chance the Browns just didn't want to show anything and allow the Eagles to see anything on tape should the two teams meet again down the road.

They played it vanilla. I think they may just turn Weeden loose next time.

Take solace in that.

[Hikohadon]

Good point.

Guys like Tannehill and Weeden weren't close to being on anyone's 1st round radar last year at this time and look how well things turned out for those guys!!!

They made bank when someone was stone cold stupid enough to go get them early!!

Ugh.... I can't imagine the OBR site right now. It'd be worth joining just to read it.

Meh... no it wouldn't.

You could say the same thing about RG3. Or Cam Newton the year before that.

You don't seem to be willing to come to terms with the fact that those guys throw the ball as well as Weeden, are far more athletic and can add an element he never could and never will.

That's kind of important.

Wondering how many guys through out NFL and draft history have 'risen' to #22 in the 1st round and been handed a starting job.

The problem with you comparing the rise of RGIII and Cam to the 'rise' of Weeden is the problem. I know you see the difference. Even if you don't want to rationalize it, believe or acknowledge how ludicrous the pick was. It will be more evident every week. That's my fear and always has been.

He needs to play. Don't get me wrong. Maybe he's the kid who crashed his car the day he got his license and went on to be the greatest driver ever.

Or maybe he's the kid that crashed his car the day he got his license, then twice more that year and then he died when he crashed his car again.

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

[trsteve1]

I am tired of being objective about this. The franchise is a disgusting mockery of a real NFL franchise.

There's a chance the Browns just didn't want to show anything and allow the Eagles to see anything on tape should the two teams meet again down the road.

They played it vanilla. I think they may just turn Weeden loose next time.

Take solace in that.

with the way he forces the ball, should we expect 5 or 6 ints with him 'turned loose?'

[googleeph2]

One thing that I keep thinking is it seemed The Weed made a lot of the right reads- I mean, he was throwing to open guys. A couple balls were dropped, and he air mailed several receivers on what should have been big plays.

So was he overwhelmed? A Big 12 guy who showed the stage was too big for him? Or was he identifying and thinking correctly but just not executing his throws?

It seems like the latter to me. As has been said, lots of backups would have made those throws. Backups who came from conferences with defenses that are worse than the Big 12, I'd guess. Maybe it's just settling down. Kosar held the ball too long when he started (no, I am not comparing The Weed's potential to Kosar).

I have not given up on the guy. We'll see, like everyone says...

[Hikohadon]

If the Browns were simply "awful" enough, Andrew Luck or RG3 would have been starting for them today.

And who's to say that Luck or RG3 would do any better running the Browns' antiquated, milquetoast offense?

While Shurmur definitely deserves some of the blame, so does Weeden.

People used that whole "No QB could be successful with this coach, these receivers, this O Line" excuse last year with Colt, and it was as much bullshit then as it would be today. If Weeden doesn't make some of the mistakes he made, the result would've been better, Shurmur or no Shurmur.

[peeker643]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

[Gradysmanldy]

I kind of agree with ^. There were a lot of VERY open receivers today, and Weeden just couldn't seem to hit them. Seemed like he got more erratic as the game went on and he took hits vs. less, which may be the most disconcerting part of it all. He left at least 2 TDS on the board, and im not sure why he couldnt learn his goddamn lesson about not throwing jump balls to Benjamin the first time.

That Eagles d-line played up to their hype today, im not sure what to think about T-rich when every time he touched the ball he immediately got hit behind the line. When he had a fraction of space, he seemed fast and shifty.

God I hate this team.

[Hikohadon]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

Since my original point had nothing to do with Weeden and then I went and actually reiterated that to you and you're still babbling about Weeden for some reason, I am now placing a "Weeden Ban" on you. You are not allowed to mention his name for the next 3 hours.

[Hikohadon]

I kind of agree with ^. There were a lot of VERY open receivers today, and Weeden just couldn't seem to hit them. Seemed like he got more erratic as the game went on and he took hits vs. less, which may be the most disconcerting part of it all. He left at least 2 TDS on the board, and im not sure why he couldnt learn his goddamn lesson about not throwing jump balls to Benjamin the first time.

That Eagles d-line played up to their hype today, im not sure what to think about T-rich when every time he touched the ball he immediately got hit behind the line. When he had a fraction of space, he seemed fast and shifty.

God I hate this team.

There were a FEW open receivers. When they were open, he missed 'em. Badly.

More often than not, they were covered. Which is why his accurate passes were knocked down and/or intercepted.

Everyone sucked on Offense, from the Head Coach down to Owned Marecic.

[swerb]

I said it then, I'll say it now. The Browns failing to be proactive and aggressive in acquiring the #2 overall pick to select RG3 was a colossal error that will haunt them for 15 years. They could have had that pick. They got in the talks too late and were not aggressive enough. It's that simple. The "we coulda never outbid Dan Snyder" argument is complete and utter bull shit and is absolutely ridiculous. You had a chance to get a once every 5-10 years talent and finally fix the QB position and these fucking morons couldn't get it done. The Redskins are laughing their balls off right now as to what a screaming deal that trade was as RG3 went into New Orleans and beat the shit out of them in a building the Saints went 9-0 in least year IN HIS FIRST GAME AS A ROOKIE. Throwing for over 300 yards on a team whose offense was just as bad as ours last year.

Weeden is a pile of shit. He can't move, he has zero intangibles (worst play action faker I've ever seen), and has no conscience. Guy could throw 30+ INT's this year if they keep running him out there, which they absolutely should keep doing. You know what you have in Colt. He blows. No reason to have him out there.

And Pat Fucking Shurmur. You've got to be kidding me. This idiot not playing Weeden in the 4th preseason game is right up there with Romeo Crennel whiffing on his first 14 coaches challenges in 2010 in terms of sheer hilarity.

[Hikohadon]

I said it then, I'll say it now. The Browns failing to be proactive and aggressive in acquiring the #2 overall pick to select RG3 was a colossal error that will haunt them for 15 years. They could have had that pick. They got in the talks too late and were not aggressive enough. It's that simple. The "we coulda never outbid Dan Snyder" argument is complete and utter bull shit and is absolutely ridiculous. You had a chance to get a once every 5-10 years talent and finally fix the QB position and these fucking morons couldn't get it done. The Redskins are laughing their balls off right now as to what a screaming deal that trade was as RG3 went into New Orleans and beat the shit out of them in a building the Saints went 9-0 in least year IN HIS FIRST GAME AS A ROOKIE. Throwing for over 300 yards on a team whose offense was just as bad as ours last year.

Looks like this thread is trying to set some kind of record for repeating the same revisionist history.

[General]

As usual I will sign off after week one. Shurmer is an idiot and the "franchise" is a joke going on 12 years. Holmgren is a fat ass imposter with a suspect record of success. Bite this walrus and die of the cancer from your incessant smoking habit, hopefully Haslem will send you back to Seattle so you can live out your career of false successes in peace on your pet Seattle radio station. Don't let the door hit you where the good Lod split you fatbag. Thanks for Shurmer too, good call on that clueless monkey. Holy shit, hallelujah, pass me the tylenol.

[justmebd]

Had to work today, so I just finished fast-forwarding through the game.

Thoughts:

1. Shurmur is Romeo Crennell Version 2.0. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
2. Weeden is a rookie. 99% of all rookie QBs SUCK. Actually would've rather seen McCoy because he has experience now and probably would've made better decisions.
3. That being said, you may as well throw Weeden out there because the dude needs experience. It'll probably be 2-3 years before he's a good QB, but why confuse the issue with facts.
4. D-Line looked good, but I'm not sold on it because the Eagles played like absolute SHIT and we still lost.
5. Haslem is going to clean house. My over/under on Shurm's ass getting booted remains at Week 13.

[FUDU]

JFC I swear this was only week one but the way some of you are posting this is week eight and the Browns are 1-7, and Weeden has 23 starts under his belt.

Essentially this is year 1, again.

So relax sit back and give it a chance, after all year 1 might not come around again till next year.

[trsteve1]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

Bolded... smartest thing I have read today. My point since the Browns selected him at #22. He isn't and never was worth that selection. We had other needs that could have been addressed, and should have been addressed.

JFC I swear this was only week one but the way some of you are posting this is week eight and the Browns are 1-7, and Wheeden has 23 starts under his belt.

Essentially this is year 1, again.

So relax sit back and give it a chance, after all year 1 might not come around again till next year.

Normally I would agree with you, but he never looked good. I'm hoping he just had the biggest case of butterflies, I'm hoping he was just scared because he was on the big stage and got himself all amped up. And I'm hoping that next week it will all sink in and he will begin a journey on figuring out how to play with the big boys.

But he just consistently looked bad. I don't have much to say positively about the way he played..

[Erie Warrior]

.My over/under on Shurm's ass getting booted remains at Week 13.

Over. End of season. What's the difference between 2-10 or 3-13?

A draft pick they'll wreck?

[peeker643]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

Since my original point had nothing to do with Weeden and then I went and actually reiterated that to you and you're still babbling about Weeden for some reason, I am now placing a "Weeden Ban" on you. You are not allowed to mention his name for the next 3 hours.

Fair enough.

I thought the QB play was bloody flux bad in Game 1 and the QB is bloody flux bad overall. But I will not comment on the circumstances that brought the bloody flux to the roster or the field.

But because the bloody flux also infects the #2 QB we should see if bloody flux QB #1 makes it out of 2012 alive before he infects those on the roster who aren't yet infected (and there are precious few of those guys, to be sure).

And when the 2013 draft rolls around we should definitely spend a high pick on bloody flux QB #3 if his condition is the least bit better then #1 and #2 because you just have to get 'better' than what you had. Degrees of 'better' be damned.

[Hikohadon]

Watching the Steelers-Broncos game, the difference in QB play between these 2 guys and Weeds is clear.

Drop, drop drop, gone.

And if they don't sling it the moment they're done dropping, they know how to move around in the pocket to buy more time.

Weeden's decision making is in slow motion right now.

[FUDU]

JFC I swear this was only week one but the way some of you are posting this is week eight and the Browns are 1-7, and Wheeden has 23 starts under his belt.

Essentially this is year 1, again.

So relax sit back and give it a chance, after all year 1 might not come around again till next year.

Normally I would agree with you, but he never looked good. I'm hoping he just had the biggest case of butterflies, I'm hoping he was just scared because he was on the big stage and got himself all amped up. And I'm hoping that next week it will all sink in and he will begin a journey on figuring out how to play with the big boys.

But he just consistently looked bad. I don't have much to say positively about the way he played..

I disagree in that he did look fine on a number of the crossing patterns, the same patterns that Colt looked very bad at in his second year (last season, patterns that were considered his go to routes when he was in college). Make no mistake Weeden did not play well today, but we did see that his arm is lively and will not be a problem and he connected on bread n butter patterns of the WC offense. Two things Colt ultimately failed at last year.

It's all moot anyway in that if you're not going to give Weeden at least half a season (even when experts say it takes 24-32 starts for guys to get their shit together) or the same amount of time you gave Colt then why bother pretending to be objective etc.

Remember this, Colt McCoy was the reason the Browns drafted Weeden.

Frankly I think criticizing the 2nd & 10 play calling (after 1st down incomplete passes) is a much better gripe, most predictable and run play in the NFL. We did it on cue, every, freakin, time.

[peeker643]

I kinda loved the jump balls to the 5'9", 170lb receiver. Should be a staple of the offense given the Browns don't have a couple recent 2nd RD WRS who are 6'3" 225lbs or so.

Definitely better than throwing the ball into the first row of seats and having another down. Throw it up and hope that midget can make a play.

[peeker643]

Remember this, Colt McCoy was the reason the Browns drafted Wheeden.

It is heartening that this regime attempted to correct the mistake that other regime made in selecting McCoy.

I sure hope they do the same thing with Marecic.

[Hikohadon]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

Since my original point had nothing to do with Weeden and then I went and actually reiterated that to you and you're still babbling about Weeden for some reason, I am now placing a "Weeden Ban" on you. You are not allowed to mention his name for the next 3 hours.

Fair enough.

I thought the QB play was bloody flux bad in Game 1 and the QB is bloody flux bad overall. But I will not comment on the circumstances that brought the bloody flux to the roster or the field.

But because the bloody flux also infects the #2 QB we should see if bloody flux QB #1 makes it out of 2012 alive before he infects those on the roster who aren't yet infected (and there are precious few of those guys, to be sure).

And when the 2013 draft rolls around we should definitely spend a high pick on bloody flux QB #3 if his condition is the least bit better then #1 and #2 because you just have to get 'better' than what you had. Degrees of 'better' be damned.

Just keep on pounding that point that has nothing to do with the original discussion, which, in case it was so lost in rhetoric, was that a QB or 2 (whether they deserve it or not) will probably rise above Barkley in the 2013 - and nothing more.

Hiko: I thought that LJ Fort played a pretty decent game today, but you knew the game was over the second he dropped that last interception.

Peeks: Yes, but it makes no sense to draft an old, slow QB at 22.

Hiko: I don't really know why Brandon Jackson wasn't used more. Richardson got a much higher percentage of plays than I thought he would

Peeks: Which makes the selection of Weeden all the more inexplicable.

Hiko: My toe hurts.

Peeks: Probably because the Browns panicked and took Weeden as a marginal upgrade.

[peeker643]

Dude, how much you drink today? I'm not comparing RG3 or Newton's rise to Weeden's at all. I'm talking about the 2013 draft. Guys like them seem to rise every year out of the blue, and there'll probably be one this year.

I didn't say shit about Weeden and certainly would never compare Weeden to RG3 or Newton since both those guys are light years ahead in potential and mobility. A "rise" to 22 isn't anything like a rise to #1 or #2 overall.

No drinks today. Soccer game at 1pm and then we watched game on DVR starting at 230pm. And we still caught up to the live action. That's a digusting amount of commercials and shit built in

Point is you don't "rise" to 22. You rise to where Luck and RGIII and Cam went or you don't take the guy there.

Immobile, pocket passer you take there and then wish you had an OL and WRs who would make him more productive.

That's a fantastic plan.

Maybe it'll work out.

Since my original point had nothing to do with Weeden and then I went and actually reiterated that to you and you're still babbling about Weeden for some reason, I am now placing a "Weeden Ban" on you. You are not allowed to mention his name for the next 3 hours.

Fair enough.

I thought the QB play was bloody flux bad in Game 1 and the QB is bloody flux bad overall. But I will not comment on the circumstances that brought the bloody flux to the roster or the field.

But because the bloody flux also infects the #2 QB we should see if bloody flux QB #1 makes it out of 2012 alive before he infects those on the roster who aren't yet infected (and there are precious few of those guys, to be sure).

And when the 2013 draft rolls around we should definitely spend a high pick on bloody flux QB #3 if his condition is the least bit better then #1 and #2 because you just have to get 'better' than what you had. Degrees of 'better' be damned.

Just keep on pounding that point that has nothing to do with the original discussion, which, in case it was so lost in rhetoric, was that a QB or 2 (whether they deserve it or not) will probably rise above Barkley in the 2013 - and nothing more.

Hiko: I thought that LJ Fort played a pretty decent game today, but you knew the game was over the second he dropped that last interception.

Peeks: Yes, but it makes no sense to draft an old, slow QB at 22.

Hiko: I don't really know why Brandon Jackson wasn't used more. Richardson got a much higher percentage of plays than I thought he would

Peeks: Which makes the selection of Weeden all the more inexplicable.

Hiko: My toe hurts.

Peeks: Probably because the Browns panicked and took Weeden as a marginal upgrade.

I'm talking exclusively about the QB play today. I thought it was 'Poor to nearly Insufferable' on my grading scale and had a tangible effect on the outcome of the football game. Your scenario above is implausible as I can't say the name __________ (rhymes with Bleedin').

Are we allowed to talk about the QB play in today's game or would you prefer we not? After all, I did hear all off-season how upgrades at the spot were critical to the success of the team.

I do hope your toe feels better. It'd be just awful if you were immobile and incapable of moving almost completely.

[FUDU]

Remember this, Colt McCoy was the reason the Browns drafted Wheeden.

It is heartening that this regime attempted to correct the mistake that other regime made in selecting McCoy.

I sure hope they do the same thing with Marecic.

Agreed, even though I see very little comparison.

After all it has been reinforced 42,358,699 times in this forum that the QB is the most important position on the field and any chance you get to improve that position (if you don't have THE GUY) you do it.

Colt was deemed NOT to be the guy well before game 8 of 2012.

I fail to see how giving Weeden just one start to prove he is NOT the guy is anything close to a sign of an objective Browns fan.

[peeker643]

Remember this, Colt McCoy was the reason the Browns drafted Wheeden.

It is heartening that this regime attempted to correct the mistake that other regime made in selecting McCoy.

I sure hope they do the same thing with Marecic.

Agreed, even though I see very little comparison.

After all it has been reinforced 42,358,699 times in this forum that the QB is the most important position on the field and any chance you get to improve that position (if you don't have THE GUY) you do it.

Colt was deemed NOT to be the guy well before game 8 of 2012.

I fail to see how giving Wheeden just one start to prove he is NOT the guy is anything close to a sign of an objective Browns fan.

Oh... I'm more than willing to give him the entire season. Or that portion of which he survives, at the least.

It's gonna be great, objectively speaking.

[FUDU]

Well your sarcasm has been speaking volumes on this issue.

We had a mobile athletic QB at the helm the past 2 seasons, it got us nowhere. Now we have a QB with an NFL rated arm and what many feel are the same smarts, it is only reasonable to give him time to get used to the NFL game before a condemnation is ordered.

Again, it cannot be over stated, Colt McCoy is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Weeden.

[mattvan1]

Again, it cannot be over stated, Mike Holmgren is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Wheeden.

[peeker643]

Well your sarcasm has been speaking volumes on this issue.

We had a mobile athletic QB at the helm the past 2 seasons (who can't throw and was brought to you by the same people who drafted the QB who played this afternoon- though I'm confident they've got this one right) , it got us nowhere. Now we have a QB with an NFL rated arm and what many feel are the same smarts ( umm....okay) , it is only reasonable to give him time to get used to the NFL game before a condemnation is ordered. (They should and will give him the year, at least. Then the next regime can determine what happens from there)

Again, it cannot be over stated, Colt McCoy is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Wheeden. (And again, I should have faith in the people in the people who gave us Cuddles, why?)

[Hikohadon]

I'm talking exclusively about the QB play today. I thought it was 'Poor to nearly Insufferable' on my grading scale and had a tangible effect on the outcome of the football game. Your scenario above is implausible as I can't say the name __________ (rhymes with Bleedin').

Are we allowed to talk about the QB play in today's game or would you prefer we not? After all, I did hear all off-season how upgrades at the spot were critical to the success of the team.

Oh, you most certainly can. Be my guest. Nothing is more fascinating than redundant and obvious man-did-Weeden-suck comments. I would just suggest there are more than enough discussions about the QB play today, and if you're hellbent on talking "exclusively about the QB play today", you should have plenty to choose from.

Discussions about the 2013 Draft/Reggie Hodges/Bill Clinton/Amelia Earhart probably don't require reminders about how bad Weeden was today.

As if we could forget.

PS - Clearly, better QB play than we had last year and today (and in 2010 and 2009 and 2008 and...) is still critical to the success of the team.

[Hikohadon]

Again, it cannot be over stated, Mike Holmgren is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Wheeden.

As if no other NFL GM's would've replaced Colt.

Now, if your point is that Holmgren got himself into that hole by drafting McCoy and starting him, then valid.

[FUDU]

So let me get this straight, just to be clear moving forward, now some of you are saying Colt needed more time? Or should be starting instead of Wheeden?

Mind you, FWIW, IMO if Colt played today he makes the plays that Weeden missed and we probably win this game, ultimately not making a bit of difference in the overall season for the team.

[peeker643]

Again, it cannot be over stated, Mike Holmgren is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Wheeden.

Now, if your point is that Holmgren got himself into that hole by drafting McCoy and starting him, then valid.

I believe that was sole and entire point.

And I thought Reggie Hodges was exceptional Sunday. So was Dawson. Cribbs was very solid on PR and "meh" on KRs. Lot to build on if you look past the difficulties in the run game, the passing game and the run defense.

[Hikohadon]

So let me get this straight, just to be clear moving forward, now some of you are saying Colt needed more time? Or should be starting instead of Wheeden?

Mind you, FWIW, IMO if Colt played today he makes the plays that Wheeden missed and we probably win this game, ultimately not making a bit of difference in the overall season for the team.

Nah, he probably makes some other mistake and they lose the game in the same painful way.

His ability to lose lots and lots of close games just like this is why he got replaced in the first place.

If Weeden doesn't develop, then you have DA/Quinn all over again.

[peeker643]

So let me get this straight, just to be clear moving forward, now some of you are saying Colt needed more time? Or should be starting instead of Wheeden?

Mind you, FWIW, IMO if Colt played today he makes the plays that Wheeden missed and we probably win this game, ultimately not making a bit of difference in the overall season for the team.

Cuddles is irrelevant. He had plenty enough time. Now that Bleedin' is on the scene, Bleedin' needs to play. Every single week he's upright and capable of it.

I'm saying the people who brought you Waterworld have created a sequel. Different characters and 'plot', but of like and kind quality in the end.

Waterworld was a bad idea. Waterworld 2 might make the original seem almost palatable, despite it still being damn near unwatchable.

[FUDU]

Doesn't the running game sucking impact Weeden's ability to succeed, similar to said running game sucking impeding McCoy's ability to ultimately succeed?

I don't know, I just don't get the mix of revisionist history and double standards so many fans have in reviewing the play of our QBs and offense, every game, every season. Plenty of us are guilty of it, you and me him and her, I just don't get it.

[LakeErieWarriors]

...At that point it will be the Haslam way or the highway, and I don't see him movin a DC to HC. He'll want and will aggressively pursue somebody solid. Of course he might not being pulling those strings, it could be our new GM.

What do people base their expectations of Haslem on? I keep asking and I never seem to figure out the answer.

Hope. A lotta hope.

I hope he's not as hands off as Randy but not as hands on as J.Jones. This is arguably his money he's got on the line here; he's worked for it so, that helps. The team isn't a toy like it was for Lerner, and Haslam is actually a businessman.

Also, I'm not as worried about Weeden's performance as most people are here for a couple reasons.

1)Pat 'deer in the headlights' Shurmer thought it wise to sit Weeden for the final preseason game. That was incredibly fuckin stupid on many different levels.

2+3)Weeden showed arm strength today, but not accuracy. There were stupid drops. One led to a pick. His first game in the NFL and he had a chance to win it. That to me with this team is a miracle within itself. I expect the Browns to have a chance to win in the Nasty next week so we'll see how that goes.

I know the D kept them in the game today. But Weeden carried out some pretty decent drives, and the #1 fuckup of the game hands down was made by the head coach.

[Hikohadon]

Again, it cannot be over stated, Mike Holmgren is the most significant reason that the Browns drafted Wheeden.

Now, if your point is that Holmgren got himself into that hole by drafting McCoy and starting him, then valid.

I believe that was sole and entire point.

Yes, Holmgren is responsible for the Colt fiasco, damn you Walrus, stupid stupid mistake, I spit in your moustache. Almost as stupid as wasting a year on Mangini. Or Shurmur. That may be the stupidest.

Now get in your time machine and fix this shit!