Tribe has the bleakest future prognosis in all of MLB

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

ESPN put together an MLB Future Power Rankings. Law, Olney, and Bowden ranked every team in 5 categories (majors, minors, finances, management, mobility) to determine who's future is the brightest over the next 5 years. The Indians placed dead last.

I already knew this, but to see it scientifically laid out with graphs, charts, and rankings is jarring and depressing. What makes it even more depressing is that I knew to scroll straight to the bottom to see the Tribe.

Insider piece.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/ ... -nos-16-30

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

So don't wait til next year?

[RedDawg53]

I'm not an ESPN insider subscriber and most likely will never be.

Back in 2007 I was at the Jake watching the Tribe play the then Devil Rays. I mentioned to my friend that I could never see the Rays reaching the World Series never the less making it to the playoffs. Then came 2008... Y'all know what happened. A shitty Rays team one year, to a WS contender the next. Can't judge a team success 5 years from now or even 1 year. Devil Rays/Rays did a complete 180... even though they lost to the Phillies, but still...

Was it a fluke? Perhaps. You never know in MLB. The Indians came within a win from reaching the WS... then a complete 180 the next

So I'll take a grain of salt with whatever ESPN says

[gotribe31]

They said the same thing about the Browns. Meh.

[RedDawg53]

What about the Cavs?

[gotribe31]

What about the Cavs?

I don't think ESPN covers the Cavs anymore...if they do, it's hidden somewhere with their "Heat Index" feature.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

What about the Cavs?

They've actually been doing this with the NBA for quite a while. Immediately after LBJ left they were 30th; they're up to 12th in last week's edition. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/ ... 0815/11-15

[googleeph2]

I feel certain Jim Bowden knows less about the Indians than any of you guys.

[pup]

No way. I am so shocked to see this. Who would have thought an organization run by the smartest man alive could rank so low?

[Adverb Harry]

Hey, if you read the list upside down, we're number one!

It's all in how you look at it, boys and girls.

[RedDawg53]

[OldDawg]

At least in football and basketball, when you suck, you have a chance to draft and get immediate help. In baseball, its rare for that to happen (the Nats are a very rare exception). The projectability of the draft to the big leagues is the toughest in baseball, and it might take years to bet those guys in the bigs.

When the Tribe sucks, and their farm system sucks, you are gonna suck for some time.

[andrew6586]

Not surprising. The cupboard is bare. We have a few hit-for-average prospects but no one with any power threats. I can't even name our best pitching prospect anymore. Our "major league" team is the fifth worst in the league. Our owner is one of the cheapest and worst in sports. That's a recipe for disaster.

[swerb]

[OldDawg]

^^ 1000 words

[motherscratcher]

No way. I am so shocked to see this. Who would have thought an organization run by the smartest man alive could rank so low?

But I don't run the Indians. I have nothing to do with it.

[skatingtripods]

Seriously, Rich? Sambuca right out front?

[bookelly]

Seriously, Rich? Sambuca right out front?

And where's the Bourbon? Unless that is Woodford Reserve.

[Prosecutor]

Part of it is just the general disrespect for Cleveland that's out there. For example, the Browns won four games last year and they had more and higher draft picks than any other team, plus a lot of guys who were rookies last year and got major playing time, yet you still see writers predicting the Browns will go 2-14 or whatever.

The ESPN ranking could very well be right. The Tribe only has one prospect in BA's top 100, IIRC. They won't spend more than $70 million and management has a poor track record. It's hard to argue with the last place ranking.

But there's a lot of dead money coming off the books next year, starting with Lowe's $5 million, Grady's $5 million, and Hafner's $13 million. They should be able to afford a couple of decent players. And there are some good looking prospects in the lower levels as well as a few good young players to build around; Santana, Chiz, Kipnis, Brantley, Pestano, McAlister, Cody Allen. There's still a pulse, although it's looking pretty weak at the moment.

[pup]

Sweet. The everybody hates Cleveland approach!

[motherscratcher]

Sweet. The everybody hates Cleveland approach!

Good plan poorly executed.

[Commodore Perry]

So don't wait til next year?

Wait till next decade.

[jb]

ESPN put together an MLB Future Power Rankings. Law, Olney, and Bowden ranked every team in 5 categories (majors, minors, finances, management, mobility) to determine who's future is the brightest over the next 5 years. The Indians placed dead last.

I already knew this, but to see it scientifically laid out with graphs, charts, and rankings is jarring and depressing. What makes it even more depressing is that I knew to scroll straight to the bottom to see the Tribe.

Insider piece.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/ ... -nos-16-30

Did they use Diamond Vision to do this study?

[swerb]

Seriously, Rich? Sambuca right out front?

And where's the Bourbon? Unless that is Woodford Reserve.

Not my liquor cabinet, just a google image.

Ironically though, mine just has two bottles in it. Jack and Woodford.

[Am I Here Again?]

Seriously, Rich? Sambuca right out front?

And where's the Bourbon? Unless that is Woodford Reserve.

Not my liquor cabinet, just a google image.

Ironically though, mine just has two bottles in it. Jack and Woodford.

So then, your cupboard is as bare as the Tribes'.

Next time try Eagle Rare 12. Smmmmmmmmmmmmmmmooooooooooooooooooooth!

[Dellucci TailGator]

But there's a lot of dead money coming off the books next year, starting with Lowe's $5 million, Grady's $5 million, and Hafner's $13 million.

The Dolans have already earmarked those funds for other purposes.

[Commodore Perry]

But there's a lot of dead money coming off the books next year, starting with Lowe's $5 million, Grady's $5 million, and Hafner's $13 million.

The Dolans have already earmarked those funds for other purposes.

If only that meant they were going to replace the rest of this season's games with Ducktales reruns.

[Adverb Harry]

Typical Dolan...too cheap to even buy pants for himself and his nephews.

[phutatorius]

Can we put together a letter-writing campaign to get Mark Cuban to buy the team? I'll take the controversy and madness and shit-talk and personal fines for critiquing the umps, if we can have an owner whose mission statement isn't so much "First, lose no money" as it might be "Commit my heart, soul, and as necessary my sanity to be the guy who brings a title to the Prog."

We're sitting out there, languishing, offering a guy like Cuban the chance to swoop down, throw money around, and be the white knight/savior of a city. How is that not attractive? There's a beautiful park, not a whole heck of a lot of liabilities on the books, a fan base that, while lethargic at this very minute, has proved in the past to be susceptible to Indians fever if we have GOOD PLAYERS and a GOOD OWNER. And there's nowhere to go but up.

Cuban's climbed the mountain. He knows this doesn't happen right away. Why can't we be the guy's next vanity project?

[StewieG]

Because MLB is a monopoly, and you can't own a team without the permission of the other owners. And they don't like Cuban.

Maybe it's changed since he tried to buy the Cubs...Cuban's sort of calmed down a bit. But I doubt it.

[Erie Warrior]

At least they aren't the Dodgers. Yikes what a trade they just made

[1Perry]

At least they aren't the Dodgers. Yikes what a trade they just made

While the merits of the trade are certainly debateable new ownership is standing up to do what they feel they should do to improve the team.

Yes, long term it may or may not make sense but it sure beats blaming the fans.

[Dellucci TailGator]

The Dodgers' mistakes at least get them Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. The Indians' mistakes get them Matt LaPorta and Jason Donald.

[Erie Warrior]

The Dodgers' mistakes at least get them Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. The Indians' mistakes get them Matt LaPorta and Jason Donald.

Certainly you are not talking dollars and cents.

Perspective.

[Dellucci TailGator]

The Dodgers' mistakes at least get them Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. The Indians' mistakes get them Matt LaPorta and Jason Donald.

Certainly you are not talking dollars and cents.

Perspective.

I was hoping the glibness was implied in my comment. Clearly, they have a lot of leeway to make these kind of decisions and eat some money.

But it does show you just how the Indians can't get things wrong when they're flipping talent like Lee and Sabathia. That's why the Shapiro system of rebuilds has shown itself to be a sham. The problem is you have to be able to produce a Colon or Sabathia within the system in the first place to jumpstart that cycle of flipping.

Billy Beane is in a similar economic crunch and he's had the same checkered record over the past decade, but his team always has a chance to win that next year because he has players with trade value.

The Indians simply have nothing to flip when it blows up. The Indians keep producing Kia's and walking away from the dealership with more Kia's. Beane may lose for a few years, but he constantly has some solid midsize Hondas and Toyotas to take to the dealer and get something he likes.

On a shoestring budget, I'd prefer constant movement of players rather than putting five cornerstones into contracts and living and dying with them. That worked with Peters and Hart. It doesn't work with guys who are right only 50 percent of the time.

[jerryroche]

It doesn't work with guys who are right only 50 percent of the time.

50 percent? How'd you come up with that lofty number? You're being too kind.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

At least they aren't the Dodgers. Yikes what a trade they just made

I mean they got Adrian Gonzalez for a sweetheart package. The deal really hinge son Carl Crawford, If he can come back and be Carl Crawford which he has a legit shot at doing, it could be worth it if it gets them a championship.


Crawford's contract is scary though, but they took a chance.

[WiscTribeFan]

At least they aren't the Dodgers. Yikes what a trade they just made

There's talk about giving Cherington the GM of the Year for being able to unload $300M in contracts while only having to send $10M in the deal, plus getting a solid pitching prospect in return. Boston's ownership should give him 10% of the cost savings for being able to pull that deal off.

Bottom line for LA is that they have the money and fan base to try this. Beckett gets out of Boston, which he really needed, same with Crawford. If he can battle back from his injuries, he might be a useful player out there, just not one worth that contract. No-one thinks he's worth that contract.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Bottom line for LA is that they have the money and fan base to try this. Beckett gets out of Boston, which he really needed, same with Crawford. If he can battle back from his injuries, he might be a useful player out there, just not one worth that contract. No-one thinks he's worth that contract.

Oh, come now. I'm sure Carl and Mrs. Crawford think he's worth it.

[FUDU]

Forget about the long term future, can we even win 8 more games this season?

[e0y2e3]

I wish I still worked at the shit-hole place with all the Massholes I was with during the Crawford/Gonzo off-season so I could laugh in their shitty faces.

I mean granted, I still can laugh at their shitty middle-America lives they hate, their hour and a half commutes and their general misery. But laughing at the one thing that gave them joy allegedly becoming something that would give them perpectual joy failing would really provide closure on that whole ordeal.

Oh, wait, they've still got the fuckin Pats and Celtics.

Fuck.

Stupid Massholes.

[googleeph2]

Am I the only one who looked at that liquor cabinet photo and immediately noted the easy accessibility? My thought was "huh, someone doesn't have 10-20 y.o. kids".
---
Was Lars' lofty prediction of 11 wins actually for the Tribe in Aug & Sept?
---
Hey, 2 yrs isn't so long to wait. Trade Choo and Perez, use some of that Sizemore/Hafner money, and Ba-da Bing!

[Gradysmanldy]

As soon as the thread went up, I started looking for the Pros spin.....quickly rewarded!!

Whomever called the Jake the "Factory of Apathy" really nailed it.

Difference between the Nats and the Tribe is that when the Nats suck, they actually hit on their draft picks and are willing to pay the elite talent a signing bonus.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Can we put together a letter-writing campaign to get Mark Cuban to buy the team? I'll take the controversy and madness and shit-talk and personal fines for critiquing the umps, if we can have an owner whose mission statement isn't so much "First, lose no money" as it might be "Commit my heart, soul, and as necessary my sanity to be the guy who brings a title to the Prog."

We're sitting out there, languishing, offering a guy like Cuban the chance to swoop down, throw money around, and be the white knight/savior of a city. How is that not attractive? There's a beautiful park, not a whole heck of a lot of liabilities on the books, a fan base that, while lethargic at this very minute, has proved in the past to be susceptible to Indians fever if we have GOOD PLAYERS and a GOOD OWNER. And there's nowhere to go but up.

Cuban's climbed the mountain. He knows this doesn't happen right away. Why can't we be the guy's next vanity project?

Luckily with the Browns, A)Lerner could hear the noise from the fans and B)He had just just put in 10 years of owning the franchise since his father's death. It seems to me that the NFL (who exactly? I dont know maybe Goodell, but who cares) kind of guided Haslam to the Browns. They thought that A)Haslam could be a good owner, and B)a successful Cleveland Browns team could lead to higher (Shield & Browns) profits, better stories, etc..

Now, the Dolans by now, with the help of C.Perez and the fans, know damn well that the fans are pissed, and that's not going to change anytime soon. If Bud Selig could pull his head outta his ass and realize that Cuban could be really good for baseball, and if Cuban had the balls to buy a baseball team in Cleveland, we would be set. I do not know if Selig could circumvent the owners and make this happen or not, but if he could, that would be great.

[trsteve1]

Indians Ranks thus far in the AL
Batting
Runs/G: 11/14
HR: 11/14
OPS: 10/14

Pitching
RA/G: 13/14
W/L%: 13/14
ERA: 13/14
Complete Games: 12/14
WHIP: 14/14
SO: 13/14

And with no interesting prospects on the horizon.. I have to say the only thing to hope for or look forward to is a complete blow up of the roster. I see no reason why anyone other than Kipnis/Chisenhall/Santana/Brantley (of the players who are even league average) should stay. Trade away Choo, Cabrera, Perez, Jimenez (even though we would get next to nothing for the carcass of a pitcher he has become), Masterson (maybe, I could see holding onto him.. but only because it's nice to have someone in the rotation who can eat innings).

Cabrera and Choo will bring in some blue chip prospects to restock our empty system (and open up a pathway for Lindor) Perez should net at least a player or two of interest.. in the end, you could hang onto Jimenez.. mostly in the hopes that he somehow starts hot next year thus increasing his trade value to dump him. I think these moves should be made this offseason, unless they don't get any decent offers and Antonnetti feels he can get better at the deadline.. but this team is going no where, and we KNOW they aren't going to make any helpful FA moves this winter.

I would be completely fine with this lineup for next year...

C - L. Marson
1B - C. Santana
2B - J. Kipnis
3B - L. Chisenhall
SS - J. Diaz/J. Donald
OF - M. Brantley, R. Canzler, E. Carrera
Bench/OF/DH - LaPorta, L. Anderson, R. Canzler

SP - J. Masterson, C. Carrasco, Z. McAllister, C. Kluber, (Jimenez/Hernandez)
RP - J. Smith, T. Sipp, E. Rogers, C. Allen, R. Perez, N. Hagadone
CP - V. Pestano

I know Santana has better value at Catcher.. but he's pretty stiff back there, and actually has a decent glove at first.. I think it would allow him to focus on hitting more (he just seems more comfortable at first than behind the plate) which might make him an even BETTER hitter.. besides.. if Marson is going to stick around, he's gonna have to start.. and see if that bat can ever become good enough to keep him in the lineup.

Kipnis and Chiz need no explanation.. who cares at SS.. just some guys to keep it warm until (hopefully) 2014 arrives and Lindor makes his presence known..

The OF will be meh, whatever, and the pitching staff will be decent in the bullpen and who knows in the starting staff.. but at least we will then know what we have with some of those guys.. and I have to say, that's better than bringing in another Derek Lowe or something similar...

Then we will definitely stink for a year or two.. or more.. and get a few top 3 or maybe #1 picks under our belts (a la the Rays/Nats, etc) and be on our way to success!

2016 here we come!

[jb]

Cabrera and Choo will bring in some blue chip prospects to restock our empty system

You really think so?

They may bring in some middle of the roaders we might get lucky on, and I mean "prospects" not quad A Lillibridge crap. But "blue chip" for Jhonny the Second (can haden get him some adderal?) and a good but not great versitile corner outfielder with one year left on a contract?

[jb]

Whomever called the Jake the "Factory of Apathy" really nailed it.

Do you really manufacture apathy?

Seems off to me.

[jb]

I wish I still worked at the shit-hole place with all the Massholes I was with during the Crawford/Gonzo off-season so I could laugh in their shitty faces.

I mean granted, I still can laugh at their shitty middle-America lives they hate, their hour and a half commutes and their general misery. But laughing at the one thing that gave them joy allegedly becoming something that would give them perpectual joy failing would really provide closure on that whole ordeal.

Oh, wait, they've still got the fuckin Pats and Celtics.

Fuck.

Stupid Massholes.

The ability to laugh at onee's self shoes a certain amount of emotional health & balance and self-esteem.

I'm proud of you Eye.

[pup]

Whomever called the Jake the "Factory of Apathy" really nailed it.

Do you really manufacture apathy?

Seems off to me.

If you can, they have.

[trsteve1]

Cabrera and Choo will bring in some blue chip prospects to restock our empty system

You really think so?

They may bring in some middle of the roaders we might get lucky on, and I mean "prospects" not quad A Lillibridge crap. But "blue chip" for Jhonny the Second (can haden get him some adderal?) and a good but not great versitile corner outfielder with one year left on a contract?

Fair.. but it should still be done. Maybe not 'blue-chippers' I suppose that's a little optimistic.. but better than what we got.. even if they each net 2 interesting pieces.. I say go for it.. either way we stink next year.