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Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

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Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Lineups, ehh
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Fausto made it through the 1st... 1-2-3 inning... wow, I just pinched myself
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:21 pm

3 ground balls for Roberto.... decent start.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:35 pm

Well, so much for that
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:44 pm

They're shitty
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Spanky » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Whatever the hell his name is, it's like he never left.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:04 pm

Im pretty sure Gomez could pitch this exact same way next year.....and not for 6 million.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:04 am

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Im pretty sure Gomez could pitch this exact same way next year.....and not for 6 million.


Our FO will not be able to resist picking up his and Ubaldo's team options, regardless of how bad either of them are.

It seems that saving face is a much better option than trying to improve your team.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:14 am

WiscTribeFan wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Im pretty sure Gomez could pitch this exact same way next year.....and not for 6 million.


Our FO will not be able to resist picking up his and Ubaldo's team options, regardless of how bad either of them are.

It seems that saving face is a much better option than trying to improve your team.


They'll have to, otherwise the rotation will be: Masterson-McAllister-Gomez-Carrasco-Kluber/Huff/Seddon. Of course, that may not be any worse than one with Jimenez and Hernandez, but that's an embarrassingly bad group of pitchers. There's no doubt Jimenez's gets picked up. You could make a case for them not keeping Hernandez with the lying, the age difference, and what little they have invested in him at this point.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:48 am

Even Marla Ridenour of the ABJ is chiming in this morning.

http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/ma ... t-1.327420

I can't believe we are longing for Ted Power.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:41 am

Horrible defensive game for Santana. He failed to block a pitch in the dirt, allowing two runners to move up. He failed to pick up a routine sacrifice bunt, allowing the runner to reach and squandering an out during a big inning. He made a bad throw to second on a pitch where he had no chance to get the runner, which allowed the runner on third to score.

I say we just move him to 1st base/DH next year and give Marson the job.

Hernandez was the same ol' guy. Zero K's. He can't make anybody swing and miss anymore. He was victimized by his defense, but it was still the same unimpressive outing you can get any day from Derek Lowe, Josh Tomlin, Chris Seddon, and Jeanmar Gomez. He'll get another 8 or 9 starts this year so we have to withhold final judgement, but he hasn't been good for the last five years and at age 32 I don't see anything changing.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:11 am

skatingtripods wrote:
WiscTribeFan wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Im pretty sure Gomez could pitch this exact same way next year.....and not for 6 million.


Our FO will not be able to resist picking up his and Ubaldo's team options, regardless of how bad either of them are.

It seems that saving face is a much better option than trying to improve your team.


They'll have to, otherwise the rotation will be: Masterson-McAllister-Gomez-Carrasco-Kluber/Huff/Seddon. Of course, that may not be any worse than one with Jimenez and Hernandez, but that's an embarrassingly bad group of pitchers. There's no doubt Jimenez's gets picked up. You could make a case for them not keeping Hernandez with the lying, the age difference, and what little they have invested in him at this point.


Problem is, with Carmona/Jimenez they'd probably suck just as bad, but cost the team another $10M in salary.

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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:31 am

I would pick up Jimenez's option because there is at least a little hope there.


Fausto.......no.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:42 am

Somebody help me out on this, just some internal thinking out loud here because something isnt adding up, not that I am surprised. Really this is just venting.


But if they dont pick up Fausto's option which is 6 million, losing Sizemore which is 5 million and 10.5 million after the buy out for Hafner, just with those 3 that is 21.5 million coming off the books.

Yet in the interview Paul Dolan did with the Plain Dealer, Dolan says " "Payroll decisions are off-season decisions and are dependent on a multitude of factors, many of them unknown to us today. Nonetheless, there is no expectation the payroll for next year will be substantially different from prior years."

The payroll this year is $71 million, minus 21.5 million = 49.5 million. Now I know there are going to be raises for players, but not 21.5 million worth. He has to know that for them to "Contend" next year they have to at least spend the same amount they were spending this year which is 71 million, and most likely have to raise it. :pigs:

It sounds like he has no intention of taking that the extra payroll space and spending it. Or at least being aggressive with it or going above both of which will be needed to actually win.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:54 am

Different issues in play. I think you can read that and say they are "comfortable" at the $70m to $75m level and that it's too early say who will go and who might be available one way or the other.

I don't take that quote you provided necessarily to mean they're going to diverge from the $70m-$75m range. Only that they don't yet know who will be taking up that space.

YMMV but we'll know in a few months.

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Somebody help me out on this, just some internal thinking out loud here because something isnt adding up, not that I am surprised. Really this is just venting.


But if they dont pick up Fausto's option which is 6 million, losing Sizemore which is 5 million and 10.5 million after the buy out for Hafner, just with those 3 that is 21.5 million coming off the books.

Yet in the interview Paul Dolan did with the Plain Dealer, Dolan says " "Payroll decisions are off-season decisions and are dependent on a multitude of factors, many of them unknown to us today. Nonetheless, there is no expectation the payroll for next year will be substantially different from prior years."

The payroll this year is $71 million, minus 21.5 million = 49.5 million. Now I know there are going to be raises for players, but not 21.5 million worth. He has to know that for them to "Contend" next year they have to at least spend the same amount they were spending this year which is 71 million, and most likely have to raise it. :pigs:

It sounds like he has no intention of taking that the extra payroll space and spending it. Or at least being aggressive with it or going above both of which will be needed to actually win.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:I would pick up Jimenez's option because there is at least a little hope there.


Fausto.......no.


Yeah, you have to pick up Ubaldo. He's sure to suck just as much, but you can't give up what we did for him and then not pick up his option. Can you imagine the uproar if we let him go and he at least pitched decently next season? Woo boy.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:38 pm

Hernandez is making $2.5 million plus incentives this year after they re-did his contract. So it's not $6 million coming off the books, it will be somewhat less if they release him.

However, Derek Lowe's $5 million is coming off the books along with the $15.5 million from Sizemore and Hafner, so after factoring in the raises to returning players they should be able to make a run at a couple of decent player while keeping payroll about the same.

They might trade Choo and/or Chris Perez for prospects this winter, so that would free up more bucks.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby NH Tribe Fan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:54 pm

We weren't paying Lowe $5 million. The Braves picked up most of his contract.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:04 pm

No, that is wrong. The Braves were paying 10 million of the fifteen million due Lowe. We were paying 5 million.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:11 pm

Bigfist wrote:No, that is wrong. The Braves were paying 10 million of the fifteen million due Lowe. We were paying 5 million.


Correct. Indians picked up $5m of his $15m 2012 salary.

Yes, that's right, he made $15m for this season. Good reason to try and raise athletes.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:29 pm

peeker643 wrote:Different issues in play. I think you can read that and say they are "comfortable" at the $70m to $75m level and that it's too early say who will go and who might be available one way or the other.

I don't take that quote you provided necessarily to mean they're going to diverge from the $70m-$75m range. Only that they don't yet know who will be taking up that space.

YMMV but we'll know in a few months.



I see what you are saying. I'm taking it as he is trying to prep us for when they dont spend any of the money at all.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:30 pm

[quote="Prosecutor"]Hernandez is making $2.5 million plus incentives this year after they re-did his contract. /quote]

He has a 6 million dollar option for next year
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:42 pm

The one advantage of really blowing as a player is that it's much easier to get into mid-season form. Like Fausto never left yee.

And I'm not interested in picking up Ubaldo. Guy's been betwenn 5 and 6 wire to wire, and that ain't changin' unless his velocity does. And I couldn't care less who they give a shot to - chances are the next dozen guys that walk into this office could go 6.00.

Can't tell you how miserable it's gonna be for Tribe defenders if you've got Fausto AND Jiminez in the same rotation. Christ, anyone peddle stimulants as a side job? Cause I know an area you can make some money next summer.

Seriously, those guys will, and do effect defense - on top of being bad.

Really, what's the point of re-signing them. A POSITIVE point. Not "we don't have anyone else" not "it's not gonna cost us as much as the past...." Why do you re-sign bad pitchers, that throw 45 GD pitches an inning.

Pointless.

Rather cycle through a dozen guys next season to see what we may or may not have - and the results aren't going to be any worse.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Well the Hope for Ubaldo would be that since its his free agent year, he magically finds "IT" and we can trade him....or contend with him.........
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:28 pm

leadpipe wrote:The one advantage of really blowing as a player is that it's much easier to get into mid-season form. Like Fausto never left yee.

And I'm not interested in picking up Ubaldo. Guy's been betwenn 5 and 6 wire to wire, and that ain't changin' unless his velocity does. And I couldn't care less who they give a shot to - chances are the next dozen guys that walk into this office could go 6.00.

Can't tell you how miserable it's gonna be for Tribe defenders if you've got Fausto AND Jiminez in the same rotation. Christ, anyone peddle stimulants as a side job? Cause I know an area you can make some money next summer.

Seriously, those guys will, and do effect defense - on top of being bad.

Really, what's the point of re-signing them. A POSITIVE point. Not "we don't have anyone else" not "it's not gonna cost us as much as the past...." Why do you re-sign bad pitchers, that throw 45 GD pitches an inning.

Pointless.

Rather cycle through a dozen guys next season to see what we may or may not have - and the results aren't going to be any worse.


While this post is 100% correct, there's no way the front office admits a mistake with the Ubaldo trade and cuts the cord while he's still under team control. They just don't have a track record of doing that.

Depressing outlook for next season for sure.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:33 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Well the Hope for Ubaldo would be that since its his free agent year, he magically finds "IT" and we can trade him....or contend with him.........



Any response that contains the word "magically" is automatically removed from realistic consideration.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:42 pm

I know :partyers:
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:24 pm

From MLBTraderumors.com

"It's no secret, we're going to need to improve our offense," said Indians manager Manny Acta to Paul Hoynes of The Cleveland Plain-Dealer when asked what his team needs to improve in 2013. "We're going to have to find a solution in left field, we're going to have to find a solution at first base and we're going to have to find a solution at DH. That's pretty obvious. And the third base situation is not determined either."

C'mon 4 out of 10 slots in the lineup and like 4 in the rotation. We're right there, man.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Hernandez is making $2.5 million plus incentives this year after they re-did his contract. /quote]

He has a 6 million dollar option for next year


Right, so if they release him it reduces the payroll by $2.5 million, assuming he doesn't earn any of his incentives, and it seems pretty certain he won't, unless there's an incentive for not striking batters out. If they exercise the option, it increases the payroll by $3.5 million.

They could also release him and then sign him to a new deal for less than $6 million, but then they would be competing with the rest of the league.

I haven't checked but I think $6 million is about the market value for a mediocre starter. Whether Rofausto Carnandez still qualifies as mediocre may be determined by the 8 or 9 starts he'll make in the next six weeks.

My guess is that they will exercise the option. I don't think they believe Kluber and Gomez are ready for the majors, just like they don't think Carerra, Goedert, LaPorta, or Phelps can play up here. This is not an organization that is known for taking chances on unproven prospects. They'd rather sign a Dellucci, Michaels, Damon, Kearns, Hannahan, Grudzelanek, Orlando Cabrera, Duncan, Kotchman, Wheeler, Lowe, etc than give a kid who's producing at AAA a chance.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:20 pm

No, it reduces the payroll by 6 million(if it is a straight up 6 million with no buy out), assuming they have his 6 million budgeted in for next year. They could also have a budget plan where none of the options are factored/budgeted in.


It really depends on how they do their projected budget.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby pup » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:03 am

Don't worry. Any payroll amount left over will be offset by an unwillingness to sign longer than 2 year deals.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:26 am

Prosecutor wrote:Hernandez is making $2.5 million plus incentives this year after they re-did his contract. So it's not $6 million coming off the books, it will be somewhat less if they release him.

However, Derek Lowe's $5 million is coming off the books along with the $15.5 million from Sizemore and Hafner, so after factoring in the raises to returning players they should be able to make a run at a couple of decent player while keeping payroll about the same.

They might trade Choo and/or Chris Perez for prospects this winter, so that would free up more bucks.



So now let us know who'd be willing to sign here that would have any sort of positive impact on this team. Free up all the $$ you need, if you continue to sign the same crap and retreads they might as well burn it on a fireworks night.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:33 am

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Well the Hope for Ubaldo would be that since its his free agent year, he magically finds "IT" and we can trade him....or contend with him.........


Unfortunately this has been the organizational strategy the last 5+ years.

IF only Hafner and Sizemore can get healthy
IF Fausto becomes the Good Fausto
IF LaPorta figures it out
IF Masterson becomes an ace

and now IF Ubaldo unfucks himself enough to pitch like he used to.

IF
IF
IF

Beats actually finding good talent.
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Re: Indians @ LA Angels of Anaheim. *Fausto returns* 8-15-12

Unread postby TribeinLA » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Help me out...next year Hafner is gone, eh? Grady, too? Also Kotchman, MANahan, Sloth, and likley Choo?

The staff is not going anywhere from what I can tell. So -- Bat, Ubaldo, The artist formerly known as Carmona, Tomlin, and Gomez/Klubbed uber? What's our lineup? Marson stay? LaPorta ready to come back? Is there anyway there's NOT a bleak outlook for this team? Can they free up some spending and buy a big time player (ala Juan Gone in '01)?

I feel badly for once complaining about Marty Cordova, Cordero, Lawton, and Burkes. Those guys would be a welcome addition in their outer primes on this team.
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