2012 Bucks Season Thread

[e0y2e3]

Jordan Hall, torn tendon in his foot, cut himself. Surgery went well per himself per Twitter.

[danwismar]

Hall should miss minimum two games...back for Cal, maybe. Lots of RB's behind him...so it's not like losing a Braxton or a Mewhort...either of which would be a disaster...but he does have a unique skill set on this roster, and is their best punt returner and wildcat type, etc.

Chase Farris, the big lineman from Elyria who came to OSU as a DL and redshirted in 2011, has been switched to the offensive line, where Warinner reportedly wanted him. He was sort of buried on this deep DL, and his athleticism and strength should work well on the OL. He was an excellent two-way lineman in H.S. I recall reading that his weight was up to 285 with "good weight" this off-season, so he's quite a bit more player than he was a year ago.


Thanks eO, for starting the 2012 thread. Wasn't sure where to put that Farris note, and there it was...

[furls]

Not all that concerned about losing Jordan Hall. He is a nice player, but hopefully this opportunity reveals a better one.

[jb]

Not all that concerned about losing Jordan Hall. He is a nice player, but hopefully this opportunity reveals a better one.

My concern isn't JH er se, but that there isn't apparently a lot of depth for the position UM wants to play him; allegedly that Harvin RB/WR hybred/tweener role, correct?

[furls]

I am not sure that even Jordan Hall was a good fit at that position. Harvin is/was a burner, Hall is not. Harvin was a threat to score a TD every time he touched the ball, Hall is not. Carlos Hyde is faster than Hall (at 238lbs). Hall is somewhat shifty, but no one is ever going to mistake him for Reggie Bush.

I think that Philly Brown is actually better suited for that position (provided he can catch the ball). I don't think we will really have that "Harvin"-type player until Jalin Marshall or Zeke Elliot gets on campus as I think that Philly Brown is basically Taurian Washington minus the exceptional spring games. He is a guy that everyone is expecting to break out, but never does. He was a HS RB/QB that never quite figured out how to be a WR, that is the problem with switching positions, sometimes it just never takes.

We know what we have in Hall: Average speed. Slightly above average quicks. Good Hands. Decent vision. None of that sounds irreplaceable. We don't know what we have in Southward, Thomas, Devin Smith, Warren Ball and Evan Spencer. I would like to see these guys get their hands on the ball, so we can see if there might be something to be excited about there. It could be critical in how tOSU closes out the 2013 class as it makes them more likely to take a risk on a potential character issue guy like Robert Foster and could put some huge emphasis on 2013 WR/Ath/RB recruiting.

[skatingtripods]

Not sure where else to put this, didn't want to start a thread, but ESPNU is showing last year's Wisconsin/OSU game. It's #13 on their countdown of the top 25 games from last season.

[danwismar]

Short video of the new scoreboard at the Horseshoe, taken tonight at the Friday Night Lights recruiting extravaganza.

[danwismar]

The official OSU 2012 Media Guide is out....270 page PDF...link here:

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/graphi ... _guide.pdf

[furls]

I keep looking down the OSU schedule in 2012 for the games that I think they will lose and I can really only find one, the Wisco Game in Madison. I don't really think that game is a lost cause.

As I look at 2012, I see a team that I think will go 11-1 or 10-2. Am I on crack here?

[danwismar]

I don't think you're on crack, Furls.

I've been thinking 10-2...with probably the MSU and Wisky road games the projected L's...but neither one of those games is by any means out of reach. Both teams will be starting first-year QB's against a damn good defense. (O'Brien isn't inexperienced, but he's getting used to a new system)

I think Wisconsin will take a step back after losing the majority of their coaching staff, including their primary offensive mind, Chryst, and the playmaker Wilson. OSU catches the Spartans early...which should hurt them more than the Buckeyes...they'll be the team with all new QB-WR talent on O, and missing their premier run-stuffer Worthy on D.

Right now I'm thinking those games will be determined by how well the Buckeyes take care of the ball on offense on the road...and how much they improve on special teams...especially coverage units.

[bac5665]

I see us being in every game this year.

Wisc, MSU and ScUM are the only potential losses I see, barring a bed-shitting exercise of some kind.

I would not be shocked with any combinations of wins and losses to those teams. I think we'll go anywhere from 9-3 to 12-0 this year, leaning towards 10-2 just to play it safe.

I agree that our offense is a big piece of the puzzle. We go as far as our offense does this year. But I really think we have a reasonable shot of going undefeated and causing BSC havoc and causing historical second guessing of the champ this year.

[furls]

In no way shape or form do I think this OSU team is one of the five best in the country next year, but I agree... this team could go undefeated because the B1G is not very good next year. There aren't any complete teams. Dan did a nice job explaining Wisco's warts. MSU has the frosh QB and I don't see the playmakers on that team required to score big points against tOSU. scUM is a wildcard, but I tend to think that Meyer will win in the 'shoe. Robinson cannot throw the ball and I think the Bucks will be able to solve his ground game this year. Their D is better but by no means is it good. I am most concerned about MSU and Wisco, and most concerned about Wisco based on playing in a TOUGH venue.

[furls]

Some early camp notes:

-Saw some pictures of the team as they were checking in to the hotel today (pictures are up on OZONE). The team looks like they are in SHAPE.
-Chris Carter looks pretty good... that is a big man. Not sure how much he will play, but he has clearly gotten in better shape.
-Jamal Marcus drawing rave reviews from Meyer, Fickell and Vrabel. They say he doesn't always know where he is going, but he gets there fast. Similar reviews from what we heard about Shazier this time last year.
-Kenny Guiton is doing very well.
-Braxton Miller is much improved throwing the ball (after hearing this every year from Pryor, I am skeptical).
-Devin Smith has made a year 2 jump and looks like he could be a bona fide playmaker.
-Brionte Dunn is the second best back on the team at this point.
-Adolphus Washington has moved inside (at least at this early junction) to the 3 Tech DT.
-Noah Spence has an epic first step, one that will get him to the QB in NCAAF.
-Nate Williams is supposed to be ahead of schedule. (people talk about this like it is a great thing, but I never thought he was that good even before major knee surgery. I just remember him OOP for the entire Wisco game in 2010. This is a guy that has never had more than 4 sacks in a season).
-Najee Murray getting great reviews. Supposedly has already passed blue chip recruit Armani Reeves on the DC and is now pushing toward Doran Grant's spot as top CB B/U.
-This year's offense is going to get the ball to Stoneburner and Boren often.
-The press is blown away by the pace of play at practices and the competition on the field. Apparently this is a much different tempo then they saw during the Tressel tenure.

[e0y2e3]

I haven't read nearly the same for Dunn and Nate Williams was in contact drills yesterday for a bit.

[furls]

I haven't read nearly the same for Dunn and Nate Williams was in contact drills yesterday for a bit.

BN$ saying he is looking good, several nice plays in the first couple of practices. Has good hands.

[e0y2e3]

Yeah, my contention would be less with him looking good, Hyde, Smith and Dunn have all had moments (Ball has fumble problems right now). That said I haven't seen anywhere that there is clear seperation between him and Smith right now.

[e0y2e3]

Stoneburner moved to WR.

[furls]

Meyer claims it is because we have 2 great TEs (Heuerman and Vannett), but that sounds a bit fishy to me. We know how he feels about the WRs and I think this is one more clear indication the he does not love what he has at WR.

It tells me that in 3/4 WR sets, he would rather have Vannett on the field than Smith/Fields/Spencer (or whoever he thinks is 3/4) on the WR DC.

Stoneburner's real asset is his ability to beat LBs, moving him to WR against CBs takes away that asset. He is too strong for CBs, but NCAA CBs really aren't allowed to play physical anyways. I would rather see him against LBs, so maybe putting him in the slot is the right move?

[e0y2e3]

It's interesting that is for sure. I mean, Vannett is going to be really good (and holy fuck did he get bigger this year), but it did seem like Meyer was at least starting to trust three/four guys in Smith/Brown/Spencer/Thomas.

The other wild card in all of this is Boren, who is going to be playing all over the place.

I guess Meyer figures using Stoneburner like Hernandez at this point is > using him from the TE spot.

[e0y2e3]

Media Day today:

Guess Meyer threw the freshman right into the scrimmage yesterday. Spence performed so well that they removed his "freshman stripe" on the field right after practice. Second guy to get it off.

Perkins, Cam Williams and Marcus all throwing there names into the mix as 2 LBs. Meyer specifically called Perkins out for having had a great practice yesterday and called out Williams incredible knowledge of the D for a freshman.

Perkins says he is the fastest LB on the team (this is probable) and then followed that up by saying that Spence is almost as fast as him at 245. Simon also called Spence the most athletic D-Lineman on the team and a few O-lineman called him the second hardest guy to block.

Reviews of Meyers first class are really solid out of the gate.

Meyer says Smith/Dunn are still fighting for the 2nd RB spot, that Philly Brown and Stoneburner look to be splitting the hybrid "Harvin" role with Jordan Hall hurt (although he said it has been really hard to find a hybrid and already caveated that it won't look like Florida).

Called out Vannett as having had a great fall as well.

There will be afull articles and what not coming shortly.

[JCoz]

Yeah if the early reports are any indication, the two deep at DL right now is as good as its been in 10 seasons.

[furls]

That is stunning (and checks with all the rumors I have read) considering there are 3 true freshman on that two deep and the reports out of practice say that all 3 are far exceeding their already ridiculous expecations. Is Schutt on the 2 deep at NT? He is the only one that I am not really sure about. I thought I saw somewhere that Carter was #3.

Speaking of Carter, his pictures from media day yesterday a pretty impressive. He looks great. He is one of the leanest looking 350lbs DL I have ever seen. He looks better than the 317lb Hankins.

2 Deep on DL as I have read (may or may not reflect reality):

SSDE: Bennett (So.)/Pittman (fr)
3 Tech: Hankins (Jr.)/Washington (fr)
NT: Goebel (Sr.)/Schutt? (fr)
WDE: Simon (Sr.)/Spence (fr)

[e0y2e3]

Hale is in the two deep and someone Meyer was fawning over yesterday. Kid has allegedly improved a ton.

Schutt is the only freshman I haven't read much about.

[furls]

Yeah, that is the name I was forgetting, Hale. I remember watching a video of him doing the "pull the other guy out of the ring drill" with John Simon and being absolutely horrified as he did exactly that, pull John Simon out of the ring (as a true freshman). It was very impressive, doesn't mean he is a good football player, just a really strong guy.

Schutt looks really soft to me. Like doughy soft. He looks as soft as I was expecting Chris Carter to look. I think he is a prime candidate to RS. Schutt is the least impressive of the 2012 DL recruits for sure.

Steve Miller is kind of the forgotten man at WDE. Can he step in and make a difference this year? If he gets passed by Spence officially this year then he becomes another prime transfer candidate. He could sit out his year next year and still have 2 remaining. I hope he is successful and that Urban is able to find him reps with Spence because I like the depth. I just hope we don't defer to Nate Williams this year. He is one of the most overrated guys I can remember, people talk about his return like he should be mentioned in the same breath as Kudla, Gholston and Gibson. I still think he is surviving on the hype from his unexpectedly good freshman year.

[peeker643]

Meyer claims it is because we have 2 great TEs (Heuerman and Vannett), but that sounds a bit fishy to me. We know how he feels about the WRs and I think this is one more clear indication the he does not love what he has at WR.

It tells me that in 3/4 WR sets, he would rather have Vannett on the field than Smith/Fields/Spencer (or whoever he thinks is 3/4) on the WR DC.

Stoneburner's real asset is his ability to beat LBs, moving him to WR against CBs takes away that asset. He is too strong for CBs, but NCAA CBs really aren't allowed to play physical anyways. I would rather see him against LBs, so maybe putting him in the slot is the right move?

As you noted, depends how and where they use him. In the slot he's still going to be ridiculous and he'll still be looking to find soft spots in the zone. He can still beat LBs and many nickel DBs and I'm not sure how big a deal this is. Especially if you look at the fast paced offense Meyer runs that looks to create mismatches. Whether you call Stoneburner a TE is a matter of vernacular in large part. Same as calling the Browns Evan Moore or Jordan Cameron a TE knowing that they play the same 'position' as Alex Smith, an actual big, blocking TE.

They're basically WRs anyway.

[furls]

Well, there is a huge difference in WRs though. There is a giant difference between an X, Y or Z receiver. My main concern (and I don't think Meyer will screw this is up) is they use Stoneburner almost exclusively as a Z receiver even though he does not meet the usual slot requirements (super fast, YAC, elusive type). I really like seeing Stoneburner hitting the seams in the Cover 2/Cover 4 that buckeyes are sure to see in spades this year. He is devastating streaking down the middle of the field, but I worry that having him catch the ball in front of LBs doesn't really leverage his best asset, his speed for a guy his size.

In the end, the most important thing is that we get the best guys on the field, so I am excited that we have a coach committed to doing that (very different than Tressel). I just don't look at this development as an excellent thing, because I have no doubt in my mind that if Meyer liked his WRs as much as he has talked them up then he would continue to use Stoney as a TE. Stoneburner will be a good WR, but I think he could've (would've) been a devastating TE.

[e0y2e3]

A reminder of why I quit caring about Y-town's finest:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/b ... aaf,189322

Cheater and a guy that was outclassed, never forget that (when prepping for what is real coming to C-Bus).

Compare that to: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/07/1 ... -own-words

[e0y2e3]

And this all leads to this: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/08/1 ... floodgates

[JCoz]

Well, there is a huge difference in WRs though. There is a giant difference between an X, Y or Z receiver. My main concern (and I don't think Meyer will screw this is up) is they use Stoneburner almost exclusively as a Z receiver even though he does not meet the usual slot requirements (super fast, YAC, elusive type). I really like seeing Stoneburner hitting the seams in the Cover 2/Cover 4 that buckeyes are sure to see in spades this year. He is devastating streaking down the middle of the field, but I worry that having him catch the ball in front of LBs doesn't really leverage his best asset, his speed for a guy his size.

In the end, the most important thing is that we get the best guys on the field, so I am excited that we have a coach committed to doing that (very different than Tressel). I just don't look at this development as an excellent thing, because I have no doubt in my mind that if Meyer liked his WRs as much as he has talked them up then he would continue to use Stoney as a TE. Stoneburner will be a good WR, but I think he could've (would've) been a devastating TE.

I had the exact same thoughts when reading about the move, Meyer is pretty clear in that he wants the best 11 on the field, so however it is you want to cut it, we seem to have 3 TE’s close to/ or already making that list, and that seems to pretty clearly indicate a lack of confidence/talent in the WR’s. These TE’s are good but they aren’t good enough to force out good wideouts from the top 11 like you can reasonably infer is happening here.

[danwismar]

Preview of ESPN's feature on Ohio State Training Camp, airing this week Tuesday thru Friday at 5:00 p.m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_p_HTZmiiU

[skatingtripods]

Preview of ESPN's feature on Ohio State Training Camp, airing this week Tuesday thru Friday at 5:00 p.m.

All of these are set to record on my DVR. Can't wait to watch them.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Preview of ESPN's feature on Ohio State Training Camp, airing this week Tuesday thru Friday at 5:00 p.m.

All of these are set to record on my DVR. Can't wait to watch them.

Certainly a different attitude they got going on over there. It's not Camp Tress.

[danwismar]

Can't help remembering things that were said last year though...same stuff...we're pissed off (Mike Brewster, for one)...that they would be playing with a chip on their shoulder...motivated by all the bad shit that had happened to them...

6-7

Sayin'

[furls]

Can't help remembering things that were said last year though...same stuff...we're pissed off (Mike Brewster, for one)...that they would be playing with a chip on their shoulder...motivated by all the bad shit that had happened to them...

6-7

Sayin'

Yep, we all thought the Bucks would rally and play well last year. I am reserving judgement on this year's team until I see something on the field. I am optimistic about the direction of the team, and I think they will play well, but I we shall see.

[peeker643]

Can't help remembering things that were said last year though...same stuff...we're pissed off (Mike Brewster, for one)...that they would be playing with a chip on their shoulder...motivated by all the bad shit that had happened to them...

6-7

Sayin'

Yep, we all thought the Bucks would rally and play well last year.

Quite a liberal sprinkling of 'we' there...

[furls]

It is the royal we. Haven't you ever seen The Borgias?

[jb]

Can't help remembering things that were said last year though...same stuff...we're pissed off (Mike Brewster, for one)...that they would be playing with a chip on their shoulder...motivated by all the bad shit that had happened to them...

6-7

Sayin'

Concur. This is a bunch of rah rah BS that means less that jack come kick off. What is needed is 2 classes of Urbs bringin the speed up to snuff, installing his systems fully,a nd then it's on.

[furls]

Can't help remembering things that were said last year though...same stuff...we're pissed off (Mike Brewster, for one)...that they would be playing with a chip on their shoulder...motivated by all the bad shit that had happened to them...

6-7

Sayin'

Concur. This is a bunch of rah rah BS that means less that jack come kick off. What is needed is 2 classes of Urbs bringin the speed up to snuff, installing his systems fully,a nd then it's on.

OSU will benefit from a bad B1G this year and a weak OOC schedule. This year's team will in no way look similar to last year's 6-7 team. That team was so out of shape and poorly coached that it wasn't even funny. We will know if Meyer can coach the existing pieces early on and that will give us a feel for how long until this team is a national contender.

[peeker643]

I'm on the JB timeline here. Give him the two classes and then be ready for some fun.

[furls]

I'm on the JB timeline here. Give him the two classes and then be ready for some fun.

So two classes is 2013-2014.... by the time those guys are THE guys that has tOSU competing in 2016-2017. I think this team will play in its first BCS game next year. His team is already more talented than anyone else in the B1G, and now they have a REAL coaching staff.

I don't think Meyer will be hittin on all cylinders until 2014, but he will not need to to win a B1G championship. I look down the 2012 schedule and I dont see a game that I think is an automatic L. I don't see a game where I don't think they will be the most talented team on the field and with Meyer, I gotta think he wins with a talent advantage.

[JCoz]

I think the talent level right now is very similar to what he had when he stepped in at UF in 05. I just dont know how ready the young players will be next season, the talent level is definitly high on the defensive end. Offensively you can expect some growing pains but he has the benifit of already having the key cog for his offense (QB) on the roster.

I'm not saying that its national championship in 2013, My expectation would be B1G championship and BCS, too many unknowns to have insane expections, but I think the talent level is very comparable to 05 UF.

[e0y2e3]

Outside of WR, what position does Meyer need to recruit more talent at in order to implement his system?

Geezes, if this team loses more than two games this year I will be shocked. Just because last year's team was the combination of the Fatness of late era Tressel ending, Tat 5 and Fickel being completely outmatched (and chained to a Walrus of an OC) has no bearing on this year.

There is a LOT of talent on this team, far more than pretty much any college coach has walked into in a good while. And the talent is tailer-made for the Meyer/Herman system with Braxton back there.

[peeker643]

Outside of WR, what position does Meyer need to recruit more talent at in order to implement his system?

Geezes, if this team loses more than two games this year I will be shocked. Just because last year's team was the combination of the Fatness of late era Tressel ending, Tat 5 and Fickel being completely outmatched (and chained to a Walrus of an OC) has no bearing on this year.

There is a LOT of talent on this team, far more than pretty much any college coach has walked into in a good while. And the talent is tailer-made for the Meyer/Herman system with Braxton back there.

I don't doubt Meyer's system is effective. How can you? I also don't doubt the talent (though until you get those kids on the field you never truly know).


But what I do believe is that 18-22yr old kids sometimes take some time to adjust. Especially those who were chained to the old system. It all depends on how quickly those kids adapt and assimilate and I think it takes more than a camp or so to get them all aligned.

[e0y2e3]

There are a couple of significant factors at play here though:

1) The core defensive system is the same, they are just faster, strong and leaner now (with more depth)

2) Braxton ran a read option spread in high school, this is far closer to his instinctual and natural abilities than Walrus Ball was last year

and

3) The O-Line was young and green last year, just age alone will improve production there.

[JCoz]

Outside of WR, what position does Meyer need to recruit more talent at in order to implement his system?

Geezes, if this team loses more than two games this year I will be shocked. Just because last year's team was the combination of the Fatness of late era Tressel ending, Tat 5 and Fickel being completely outmatched (and chained to a Walrus of an OC) has no bearing on this year.

There is a LOT of talent on this team, far more than pretty much any college coach has walked into in a good while. And the talent is tailer-made for the Meyer/Herman system with Braxton back there.

I dont think there is much he needs for his system.

The way I see it where in UF he had Tebow for power and Demps/Rainey/Harvin for the edge, he has Hyde for power and Braxton for the edge now, he can IMO accomplish basically the same general dynamic in the backfield with what OSU has now. He has everything he needs at TE.

Like Peeks said, for me its just a question of how fast the kids adjust to the new system. Could be faster than many would think, could be the opposite.

[danwismar]

I've been meaning to throw this out to the board for comment, and this seems like a good time to do it...with the discussion of the relative weaknesses and strengths of this 2012 OSU team....

Interested in hearing what you regulars (and of course others too) think about the Buckeyes vs the rest of the Big Ten this year...since that's the only thing they'll be able to prove on the field...they can't play in Indy, but they have a head-to-head matchup with the three best Legends teams in the reg season

Specifically...take the OSU wide receiver group...arguably the weakest unit on the team. Is there another B1G team with whom you would trade WR units straight up?

How about O-Lines? How about running backs? (where Wisky might have an edge, for example) How about DB's?...linebackers? Comments about other position units welcome.

Feedback also welcome about my B1G Preview rankings of the teams in each Div. ....is Penn State better than the 4th best team in the Leaders? How weak is the leaders Div? How much will PSU drop? Can a Purdue or an Illinois pass PSU in the division?

Is Michigan overrated, or am I nuts to have them behind MSU and Neb in Legends?

Both last years Indy participants will have new starting QB's...who can take advantage and surprise?

(link to Legends preview is at the top of this Leaders article)

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... s-division

Have at it.

[e0y2e3]

I don't have time to really think about this, but your overall point I agree with... the 2012-13 B1G BLOWS.

It's half the reason all the optimism is warranted.

The combination of the 2011 and 2012 B1G's will stand as the single weakest two year run for the conference I can remember.

[jb]

I've been meaning to throw this out to the board for comment, and this seems like a good time to do it...with the discussion of the relative weaknesses and strengths of this 2012 OSU team....

Interested in hearing what you regulars think about the Buckeyes vs the rest of the Big Ten this year...since that's the only thing they'll be able to prove on the field...they can't play in Indy, but they have a head-to-head matchup with the three best Legends teams in the reg season

Specifically...take the OSU wide receiver group...arguably the weakest unit on the team. Is there another B1G team with whom you would trade WR units straight up?

How about O-Lines? How about running backs? (where Wisky might have an edge, for example) How about DB's?...linebackers? Comments about other position units welcome.

Feedback also welcome about my B1G Preview rankings of the teams in each Div. ....is Penn State better than the 4th best team in the Leaders? How weak is the leaders Div? How much will PSU drop? Can a Purdue or an Illinois pass PSU in the division?

Is Michigan overrated, or am I nuts to have them behind MSU and Neb in Legends?

Both last years Indy participants will have new starting QB's...who can take advantage and surprise?

(link to Legends preview is at the top of this Leaders article)

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... s-division

Have at it.

Meatchicken is not overrated. Yes they had some fortune last year, but I would expect them to be better with an influx of trench talent and another year of Denard wrecking havoc and 2nd year under Flintstone.

I always believe Sparty when I see it.

[e0y2e3]

Bama beast UM by 21, minimum.

[danwismar]

Bama beast UM by 21, minimum.

I'd take some of that. I think it will be closer. Like Jesse said last week, expectations are such that UM doesn't really have to win...just compete and keep it close...in order to maintain their preseason status as possibly a Top 10 team. I just look at the UM schedule (Bama, @ND, @OSU, @Neb) and figure no way they match 11-2. They've lost 4 straight to MSU too, and Iowa gives them fits.

Outside of Denard, who scares anyone as an offensive playmaker on the Wolves? For that matter, who are their defensive playmakers?