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Potential Indians Trade Targets

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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:43 am

peeker643 wrote:
YahooFanChicago wrote:There is no doubt in my mind that a drunken collection of you, MotherScratcher, Pros, Dennis Kucinich, Peeeker, Ted Stepien's dead corpse and Delonte West could do a better job of managing the indians than Antonetti, Shap and Dolan. That's not even a fucking joke either as long as Kucinich doesn't have much say in the decisions.


I couldn't work with those three assholes.

And I probably wouldn't be able to work with Delonte, Kucinich or Dead Stepien either.


Yeh, maybe your first hire should be hiring CDT as a security enforcer, he could probably bring in his Chinese hand cannon, muskatoon or whatever the hell he thinks he needs to maintain order and control those guys.

Then again someone thought it was a good idea to bring in Asian Carp to the US to control excess plankton and we all know how that worked-out...
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Bigfist » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:24 am

I find it somewhat ironic (although I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment above) that we, as Browns fans, complain about the constant turnover in the FO and coaching staff. "How can we ever become a team to challenge Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. if we keep tearing things up every two years," we yell. Yet, we are on the opposite side here..."FO has failed to produce a winner in the Indians. Time to tear it down."

Understand that I personally do not disagree with making changes at the top of the Indians hierarchy (although I suspect the frequent posters here WILL disagree), but I just find it amusing that we are on both sides of the issue.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:04 am

Shapiro is doing his job exactly as Dolan sees fit.

Profit.

Christ, if this team was in Cinci and the owner's name was Mike Brown, would you see a difference?
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:29 am

Why all the badmouthing of the Dolans, Shapiro and Antonetti?

They've managed to field an almost-.500 team with no stars and a modest player payroll. Shapiro and Antonetti are apparently being paid handsomely to assure the Dolans of making a nice spot of cash ($30 million, according to one report), no matter how low the team finishes or how few people go through the turnstiles.

So, from a business standpoint, what's not to like?

(And if you can't hear the facetiousness in those statements, you're not hearing me.)
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:39 am

Bigfist wrote:I find it somewhat ironic (although I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment above) that we, as Browns fans, complain about the constant turnover in the FO and coaching staff. "How can we ever become a team to challenge Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. if we keep tearing things up every two years," we yell. Yet, we are on the opposite side here..."FO has failed to produce a winner in the Indians. Time to tear it down."

Understand that I personally do not disagree with making changes at the top of the Indians hierarchy (although I suspect the frequent posters here WILL disagree), but I just find it amusing that we are on both sides of the issue.


I'm far more inclined to believe this is an ownership issue and not as much a GM issue.

I think Antonetti reached on Ubaldo and it will cost them dearly but by and large I think the drafts have been better since Mirabelli was removed and that Shapiro earned the two Exec of the Year awards he won.

Again, I can't really go as deep as I'd like to and will one day (after which time it will be too late) as to why I believe that, but my impression based on my experiences is that ownership is a far, far, FAR bigger issue than the front office personnel.

In fact, the job Shapiro did under this regime may one day be seen as being miraculous.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Bigfist » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:57 am

Peeker..are you saying then, from your viewpoint, the "Dolan is cheap" crowd, is, in fact, correct?
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:09 am

Dolan is running the team as a business, trying to turn a profit.

Shapiro and Antonetti have done a solid job with the resources at their disposal.

The drafts from 2008-present have been solid...much, much better than the previous 10 years.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:10 am

I dont think Dolan necessarily is cheap, so much as he doesn't want to win at the risk of costing himself any money. He runs it as a business. You know the term in football some WR's play "scared", well he owns "scared".


No Gm is perfect, but I do have a hard time really blaming Shapiro, Because if he was a boxer, it would be like if he was asked to fight every bout with one hand tied behind his back and sometimes even blindfolded.

The drafts are really the only thing that I really believe he needs to take heat for. He was the head honcho during those clusterfucks. Whether or not he made the decisions, he oversaw the men that did. You are the leader you take the blame.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:23 am

gotribe31 wrote:Dolan is running the team as a business, trying to turn a profit.

Shapiro and Antonetti have done a solid job with the resources at their disposal.

The drafts from 2008-present have been solid...much, much better than the previous 10 years.


1 guy since 2008 has made any worthwhile impact. I am not a draft evaluator, and maybe the top 10 prospect list is littered with these guys, but I am not sure how you call them solid.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:30 am

For what it's worth, Jon Heyman (whom I like about as much as Ken Rosenthal, which is to say, I can't stand him) is reporting via twitter:

"Indians expect to hold most/all of key pieces. tough spot, on cusp of race. #choo #perez"

I'd hate to see Choo go, but I think they make a big mistake if they decline to move him. Despite what they may think and hope, we are going NOWHERE this year. The longer we wait into the offseason and especially next year, the value of a Choo trade goes dramatically down.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:33 am

I dont think they are declining to move anybody, so much as they are posturing trying to get the best deal right now. If nobody offers them value then they will wait. They still have the offseason.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:40 am

pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:Dolan is running the team as a business, trying to turn a profit.

Shapiro and Antonetti have done a solid job with the resources at their disposal.

The drafts from 2008-present have been solid...much, much better than the previous 10 years.


1 guy since 2008 has made any worthwhile impact. I am not a draft evaluator, and maybe the top 10 prospect list is littered with these guys, but I am not sure how you call them solid.


I think that the Chisenhall, Kipnis, White and Pomeranz picks were all good. Kipnis is the 3rd-best player in the entire 2009 draft so far. Cody Allen (23rd round pick) is one of only two players from the 2011 draft to appear in the majors, along with Trevor Bauer. Francisco Lindor is one of the top-10 prospects in all of baseball. They've been unlucky with some injuries to pitchers like Trey Haley and Austin Adams, but that's hardly a problem unique to the Indians.

It's still early to judge any of those drafts, as the oldest players drafted in 2008 will just now be 25. But you rarely get more than a couple of big league regulars out of any season's draft; and that's not just the case with the Indians, that's throughout baseball. Basically, I'm saying that just because we don't have several solid contributors from those drafts already in the majors doesn't mean that they were failures. In fact, other than the Angels who stole Mike Trout with the 25th pick in the 1st round, I think the Indians had a better draft than anyone in 2009.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:47 am

gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:Dolan is running the team as a business, trying to turn a profit.

Shapiro and Antonetti have done a solid job with the resources at their disposal.

The drafts from 2008-present have been solid...much, much better than the previous 10 years.


1 guy since 2008 has made any worthwhile impact. I am not a draft evaluator, and maybe the top 10 prospect list is littered with these guys, but I am not sure how you call them solid.


I think that the Chisenhall, Kipnis, White and Pomeranz picks were all good. Kipnis is the 3rd-best player in the entire 2009 draft so far. Cody Allen (23rd round pick) is one of only two players from the 2011 draft to appear in the majors, along with Trevor Bauer. Francisco Lindor is one of the top-10 prospects in all of baseball. They've been unlucky with some injuries to pitchers like Trey Haley and Austin Adams, but that's hardly a problem unique to the Indians.

It's still early to judge any of those drafts, as the oldest players drafted in 2008 will just now be 25. But you rarely get more than a couple of big league regulars out of any season's draft; and that's not just the case with the Indians, that's throughout baseball. Basically, I'm saying that just because we don't have several solid contributors from those drafts already in the majors doesn't mean that they were failures. In fact, other than the Angels who stole Mike Trout with the 25th pick in the 1st round, I think the Indians had a better draft than anyone in 2009.


OK
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:05 pm

pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:Dolan is running the team as a business, trying to turn a profit.

Shapiro and Antonetti have done a solid job with the resources at their disposal.

The drafts from 2008-present have been solid...much, much better than the previous 10 years.


1 guy since 2008 has made any worthwhile impact. I am not a draft evaluator, and maybe the top 10 prospect list is littered with these guys, but I am not sure how you call them solid.


I think that the Chisenhall, Kipnis, White and Pomeranz picks were all good. Kipnis is the 3rd-best player in the entire 2009 draft so far. Cody Allen (23rd round pick) is one of only two players from the 2011 draft to appear in the majors, along with Trevor Bauer. Francisco Lindor is one of the top-10 prospects in all of baseball. They've been unlucky with some injuries to pitchers like Trey Haley and Austin Adams, but that's hardly a problem unique to the Indians.

It's still early to judge any of those drafts, as the oldest players drafted in 2008 will just now be 25. But you rarely get more than a couple of big league regulars out of any season's draft; and that's not just the case with the Indians, that's throughout baseball. Basically, I'm saying that just because we don't have several solid contributors from those drafts already in the majors doesn't mean that they were failures. In fact, other than the Angels who stole Mike Trout with the 25th pick in the 1st round, I think the Indians had a better draft than anyone in 2009.


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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Meanwhile, this gets you Hunter Pence in such a slow trade market:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=joseph001tho
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:49 pm

Its not a done deal yet.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:29 pm

pup wrote:Meanwhile, this gets you Hunter Pence in such a slow trade market:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=joseph001tho




He's a 20-year old catcher in AA and was also in the Futures Game. Giants #3 prospect before the season; he's no slouch. They have Posey but with his injuries, it had to be tough to give up his possible, career-enhancing replacement.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:44 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
pup wrote:Meanwhile, this gets you Hunter Pence in such a slow trade market:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=joseph001tho




He's a 20-year old catcher in AA and was also in the Futures Game. Giants #3 prospect before the season; he's no slouch. They have Posey but with his injuries, it had to be tough to give up his possible, career-enhancing replacement.


They also have Hector Sanchez who's a highly regarded C and is only 22.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:47 pm

I guess they got Shierholtz as well.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:01 pm

Eddie Moo got dealt to the Cardinals for a former 1st round pick, and Craig Breslow was dealt to the Red Sox.

Former Tribe bullpen guys are flying off the market. Go figure.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:24 pm

Worst thing the Indians could do is nothing.

And that's exactly what they're going to do.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:26 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Worst thing the Indians could do is nothing.

And that's exactly what they're going to do.


Yep.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:29 pm

Shocking I tell ya
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:30 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Worst thing the Indians could do is nothing.

And that's exactly what they're going to do.


Yep.


C'mon! Magically all of the struggling players will turn their seasons around. We're gonna win this thing!

Indian Fever, be a believer!

:pb:
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:34 pm

The Yankees reportedly want a defense-first 3B with A-Rod out. Have to think they've called about Hannahan. With his uppercut swing and the short porch in RF, he could have some value to them. If we could get another Zach McAllister out of them, I'd be fine with that.

I think if Chisenhall weren't hurt, Hannahan would have been traded by now.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm

The Indians have thrown up the white flag with their inactivity. The sad thing is, they'll try to spin it as still trying to win it because they didn't trade any of their talent.

This team's on the slow train to nowhere. They've finally broken me.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:42 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:
Adverb Harry wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Worst thing the Indians could do is nothing.

And that's exactly what they're going to do.


Yep.


C'mon! Magically all of the struggling players will turn their seasons around. We're gonna win this thing!

Indian Fever, be a believer!

:pb:


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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:49 pm

Image
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm

on a side note, very glad a Chris Perez for Gaby Sanchez deal didn't happen last offseason. WHEW.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:56 pm

5 minutes to go...let's see what kind of magic Antonetti can cook up!!!

(Making what's left of the fans disappear doesn't count.)
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:59 pm

5...4...3...2...1....

WE SUCK!!!!
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:59 pm

Terrible, although entirely expected.

The team's flawed this year and it will be next..... after that there's gonna be some major holes to fill!
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:03 pm

Angels get Greinke
Rangers get Dempster
Tigers get Sanchez
White Sox get Youkillis and Liriano


Tribe do nothing...... rebuild or go for it.... standing pat gets you fuckin' nowhere!
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:04 pm

We didn't come out of the trading deadline completely empty-handed. We did get Lillibridge earlier in the week. Kid's a special player...gonna be a real factor for us going forward.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:19 pm

Shit or get off the pot.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:23 pm

Next home game no-one should show up. Literally, not one person should step foot inside the ball park and let them play for the ushers.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Spanky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:26 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Shit or get off the pot.

Pssshh, we are the ones cleaning up the shit stains off the side of the pot. :bag:
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:27 pm

Hold on, not so fast!! We got Lars Anderson from the Red Sox.

Well, that changes EVERYTHING.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:27 pm

Ooooh.... Looks like we've acquired Lars Anderson from the Red Sox... pretty meaningless move.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:28 pm

God damnit. I had my front page article all typed out about the Indians doing nothing and then I find out we traded for LARS FUCKING ANDERSON! WOOOOOOO!

I'm trying to find out who he is, but B-Ref is slow due to traffic from real trades.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:31 pm

Lars Anderson, a 24 year old left handed hitting 1B in AAA.

Now we've got the rest of the AL Central RIGHT where we want them.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:32 pm

Lars Anderson is an over-hyped Red Sox 1B prospect from about 4 years ago.

Plays a bit of LF too, so maybe they're cutting bait with Damon. In short, he's an .800 OPS minor league hitter with middling power for a corner spot...... and he's left-handed!!
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:33 pm

Cool, and we gave up a starter that throws a knuckleball for him. Somehow, Steven Wright will become the next R.A. Dickey.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:33 pm

Chris Antonetti, 3:59 PM:

Shit, I gotta do something so the boss doesn't realize I've been sleeping all afternoon. Get me...Lars Anderson. Whew. That was close.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:34 pm

We got Lars Anderson? Now all we need are the other 3 members of Metallica and we might not have to use Damon/Duncan nightly.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:34 pm

Oh, and we gave up a good story in Steven Wright, the AA Knuckleballer, to get him.

Wright probably amounts to nothing, but would've been a great story to see a Knuckler rise through the system.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:35 pm

I'd rather have gotten Lars Ulrich to go and sit next to John Adams at the top of the bleachers. We'll just start a band in the bleachers to keep people entertained at games.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:37 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Lars Anderson is an over-hyped Red Sox 1B prospect from about 4 years ago.

Plays a bit of LF too, so maybe they're cutting bait with Damon. In short, he's an .800 OPS minor league hitter with middling power for a corner spot...... and he's left-handed!!


Gentlemen, I give you our starting 1B next year.
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby Spanky » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:37 pm

I can hear the bullshit now because Antonetti spews the same stuff Shapiro did. "Remember the time we traded for Grady Sizemore?"
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Re: Potential Indians Trade Targets

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:38 pm

When you get traded for a 27 year old pitcher in AA, it's gotta do a little something to your ego.
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