11 wins

[LarsHancock]

Yes I'm serious.

I don't think people understand truly how much the Browns have upgraded over the past 2 years, and how much the lockout impacted them last season. So, with a full offseason to install the offense and defense, and a year of it under our belts, I'm putting my reputation on the line (which, granted, isn't much) and calling for eleven wins. Yep.

One caveat on this: I'm basing this on the talent the team has, and faith that we can put a professional system in place. Shurmur may very well be a terrible coach, as his cluelessness last season indicated. And Childress may well be a terrible hire at OC, if you believe anything Brett Favre has to say. Terrible coaching can destroy a team and turn 11 wins into 5 in no time. And if the Browns are indeed in top-ten draft position once again, it is the fault of the coaching staff, and we need a regime change, again.

But let's assume Holmgren has put together a quality team, or gets involved enough to ensure they produce a quality product.

First and foremost, the Browns' offensive line may be the best in football. This isn't just me saying this, NFL pundits are saying this. Now that the Schwartz is with us, the right side of the line is projected to be excellent vs. the turnstiles of the John St. Clair - Tony Pashos era. Mack and Thomas have proven themselves to be All-Pro level, and Pinkston and Lauvao will only be better this year. We should have the time to pass, and the ability to run, with a quality unit up front.

Second of all, let's talk about running the ball. Last year our RB position was a disaster, with Hillis playing only when his agent told him it was okay (and fumbling way too often). Hardesty is... terrible. And then it was whoever got off the UPS truck that week in Berea that carried the ball. And we still managed to get our leading rusher near the century mark in about half the games. Now, we've got a freak in Richardson to carry the load: fast yet tough as a rhino, and rookies can make an immediate impact at RB. Who knows what he can do behind that line with his skills.

Now, let's talk QB. I like Colt McCoy as a person, love his heart and intelligence, but gosh darnit he sucks. Undersized, weak arm, and accuracy is bad (other than that, he's perfect). Now we have Weeden who is big, strong, throws an accurate ball, intelligent, and mature. His college offense last year was lights out, look at the 2012 Fiesta Bowl where he absolutely picked apart the #4 team in the nation without benefit of a running game, in a game where he needed to score every possession and he knew it. If the inferior-in-every-way Andy Dalton could lead his team to a playoff birth, Weeden certainly can. This will be a huge step up.

Tight end is set, and we know what we have there. Watson and Moore are for real, but Jordan Cameron may surprise some people this year. He is extremely athletic and with a full year of coaching, he could turn into a matchup nightmare for defenders. And as for WR, with Little getting in WR shape and having a year under his belt to learn the position, and with Gordon potentially being a "faster Brandon Marshall", we may actually have a respectable WR corps.

All in all the offense is significantly improved over the garbage we put out the past 10 or so years.

As for the defense, the biggest struggles for them last year were threefold: first, the D tackle depth after Taylor and Rubin was atrocious. That second line was pushed around and shredded every time Taylor and Rubin weren't on the field. This could continue to be a problem with Taylor out at least 6 weeks, but the drafting of John Hughes will be much bigger than people think. Second, the D just spent too much time on the field, with the offense being so inept. This is an annual tradition and complaint in Cleveland, and with the significant upgrades in the offense, the defensive performance should improve. Third, there was no pass rush, and this problem wasn't significantly addressed.

Keep in mind people are starting to talk about Joe Haden in the same terms they use to describe Revis. With TJ Ward returning, our secondary is going to be improved from last year, and will be a high quality unit. FS remains a concern to be sure.

As for the linebackers, well, they're just okay. Gocong has had some great moments, Jackson is a solid leader. They need another draft to shore up LB to help with the run D and pass rush without question.

Overall, once Fujita and Taylor get back, the defense should be average overall, and excellent in certain positions. If the offense can put up points, this could pressure opposing teams into mistakes.

I feel solid about this team and see 11 wins. Pittsburgh and Baltimore won't be as tough as people think, and Cincy is, well, Cincy.

[peeker643]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

[e0y2e3]

I hear JB is rocking Walrus PJ's these days....

[LarsHancock]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

That would be stupid of me to take that bet.

So, of course I will.

Are we talking hard liquor or wine here? Or is it winner's choice?

[swerb]

[TouchEmAllTime]

11 wins in how many seasons?

[peeker643]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

That would be stupid of me to take that bet.

So, of course I will.

Are we talking hard liquor or wine here? Or is it winner's choice?

Winner's choice, of course. Gonna decide now what I want. Beat the Christmas rush.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

[leadpipe]

Your caveats deal with the GM and head coach.

Your QB is a rookie, no matter how much better than Colt, or how good he eventually becomes.

Anything else REALLY matter?

Which is why Peeker just made his wisest bet on this site since that one cat bet him Ben Francisco would have a high OPS.

[LarsHancock]

I'm sure that was incredibly stupid, but I'm always the type to stand behind my incredible stupidity, no matter how incredibly stupid.

And if I'm proven right, I want this thread pinned for like a year.

[googleeph2]

LOVE IT

Here's a man who knows how to have fun with his sports. After all, if they are never much fun, what good are they anyway?

Just a couple quick questions:
1)Exactly who are they going to beat in divisional play? 11 wins requires at least one win there.
2)Wait- does this include all games, including preseason?
3)If a Mayanesque Armageddon hits 12/21, will they need to already have 11 wins without needing those last 2 games?

[Govbarney]

Why stop at 11? Why not predict them to make Mercury Morris, Don Shula, Larry Csonka and Bob Griese sweat it out?

[swerb]

I'm sure that was incredibly stupid, but I'm always the type to stand behind my incredible stupidity, no matter how incredibly stupid.

And if I'm proven right, I want this thread pinned for like a year.

Risk/reward thread. Would be like Namath in Super Bowl III if you hit this.

Or, if they get off to a soul crushing 1-4 start and end up winning 4 games, this thread could be bumped every Sunday night by Peeker and live in the top ten threads of the Browns board all season.

[FUDU]

I can't imagine peeker being the type of guy to do such a thing Rich.

[bookelly]

What is the minimum amount of wins that the Walrus and co. need to keep their jobs? 7? Maybe 6 if it includes a win against Pitts or Bal.

Because that is exactly the amount of wins yer gonna get. WE WANT TO LOSE. 5 year plan biatches! All in.

[Erie Warrior]

NFW.

I'm willing to bet they don't win 11 in a season in the next decade.

[mattvan1]

I'm sure that was incredibly stupid, but I'm always the type to stand behind my incredible stupidity, no matter how incredibly stupid.

And if I'm proven right, I want this thread pinned for like a year.

If you are right, I'll get this thread tatooed on my back.

I'll set the O/U at 7.

But I love your optimism. Although I find you far less intelligent today than I did previously.

[Hikohadon]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

Tee hee, you must mean the dude that predicted 6 wins.

What a hopeless buffoon.

[pod2dawg]

Lars...Bros..that Missionary trip took its toll.

Hey, I still have my shit packed ready for the victory parade down Carnegie in case anything in Cleeland goes our way. I'll staple the schedule to my back if we win 11.

It wouldn't be lightening in a bottle...more like a tsunami. Two years. We'll be back.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

11 wins?

In this division?

[bookelly]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

Tee hee, you must mean the dude that predicted 6 wins.

What a hopeless buffoon.

How does picking 6 wins make me a hopeless buffoon wearing Browns Pj's? WTF?

I always wear the bunny outfit to bed.

[mattvan1]

I always wear the bunny outfit to bed.

I have been waiting years for a tie-in to your avatar. Finally. And very well played.

[jb]

I hear JB is rocking Walrus PJ's these days....

Shouldn't you be angerly pontificationg about "The best picthing staff in the ALC" and scoffing at Carlos Santana being criticised betwwn swills of scotch and bites of nutella?

[jb]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

[peeker643]

I hear JB is rocking Walrus PJ's these days....

Shouldn't you be angerly pontificationg about "The best picthing staff in the ALC" and scoffing at Carlos Santana being criticised betwwn swills of scotch and bites of nutella?

I don't get the Nutella stuff.

It's disgusting, actually.

[jb]

LOVE IT

Here's a man who knows how to have fun with his sports.

Meh. One eye0121 is enough.

[jb]

& Lars - JMJ is that LBer. watch this kid hit.

[peeker643]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

I shall toast this post with my bottle of Makers Mark or Woodford.

Or maybe Basil Hayden's?

[swerb]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

From your lips to God's ears.

[jb]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

From your lips to God's ears.

Only the most cynical cuss on line can't see the potantial talent they are amassing. Imagine if the Tribe had similar prospects coming up; fans would be creaiming jeans. But becasue it is the Browns everyone assumes it's more Travis Prentisses, Charlie Fryes and JuJuan Dawsons and ignores what these kids, plus Scwartx, can and frankly SHOULD bring to the table with Sunday experience. It just doesn't happen in 2 or 3 seasons from the stinking cesspool of rudderless suck when you build exclusively via the draft and minor pro personnel deals.

[jb]

PS - 11 wins thsi season could only be predcited by SD on a Peyote and Crown bender in August if Shack Harris were reincarnated as QB here with this group...

[peeker643]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

From your lips to God's ears.

Only the most cynical cuss on line can't see the potantial talent they are amassing. Imagine if the Tribe had similar prospects coming up; fans would be creaiming jeans. But becasue it is the Browns everyone assumes it's more Travis Prentisses, Charlie Fryes and JuJuan Dawsons and ignores what these kids, plus Scwartx, can and frankly SHOULD bring to the table with Sunday experience. It just doesn't happen in 2 or 3 seasons from the stinking cesspool of rudderless suck when you build exclusively via the draft and minor pro personnel deals.

Amen- everyone gives the Tribe the benefit of the doubt and their undying support over the Browns around this town

And how do you not get excited over Tribe picks like we do when they've given us Trevor Crowe and Danny Peoples and Matt Whitney and Micah Schilling and John Drennen and Beau Mills and Brad Snyder.

Yes. Tribe always gets the greater favor around here. ALl we did was cream ourselves over those guys.

Now let's see if Weeden can come together with TRich, Little, Gordon and Benjamin and give us our Minnesota offense of Rice, Berrian, Harvin and AP.

[Hikohadon]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

Tee hee, you must mean the dude that predicted 6 wins.

What a hopeless buffoon.

How does picking 6 wins make me a hopeless buffoon wearing Browns Pj's? WTF?

I always wear the bunny outfit to bed.

The buffoon I was referring to is me. I'm a hopeless romantic bc I won't acknowledge the 1 win reality.

[peeker643]

I can think of two long time posters who will be seeking a picture of you they can hang over their beds (the beds with the Browns pillows and blankies).



How about we bet a bottle (say $50 limit) on an over-under of 10.5 and I take the under?

Tee hee, you must mean the dude that predicted 6 wins.

What a hopeless buffoon.

How does picking 6 wins make me a hopeless buffoon wearing Browns Pj's? WTF?

I always wear the bunny outfit to bed.

The buffoon I was referring to is me. I'm a hopeless romantic bc I won't acknowledge the 1 win reality.

At least you haven't mentioned how the Browns are the picked upon, red-headed step-child that this town doesn't support or how the Browns draft picks are panned while the Tribe's are routinely lauded.

Your pal has a bright future in revising text books or as a Penn State trustee given what he sees.

[jb]

Ur so 2000 late. Now that Mirabelli got kicked upstairs the Tribe is the best run org like ever.

Gr8 parking too !!

Fans criticize the hell out of the Browns. But they care. No one cares about the Tribe & for good reason. They are going thru the motions & act self- satisfied like as if they invented baseball.

[googleeph2]

Fans criticize the hell out of the Browns. But they care. No one cares about the Tribe & for good reason. They are going thru the motions & act self- satisfied like as if they invented baseball.

Nice and concise. If I can figure out how, may I borrow this for a sig for a while? I'll include a credit, of course.

The 'care' part is why I cannot refer to Gilbert as TMLP. I once compared him favorably to Steinbrenner in that he takes it personally- and I got smacked around.

I used to be disgusted with the 'new' Browns because I thought the fans cared more than the players- and what kind of fool does that make us? But these days, the entire Tribe organization cares less than us. From the Dolan family right on down to Chris Perez.

[mistero]

I can see it too.

Jamie Mitchell/Austin English out-- Frosty Rucker/Jacqua Parker in is huge for the run defense.

Pashos out----Schwartz in is huge for the line, especially because Colt always rolled right and panicked right making our pass protect ten times worse.

New toys of offense, Richardson, Flash Gordon, Little getting better and better. Benjamin with real speed.

Good depth everywhere (well maybe not at S and OLB).


The worst QB in the NFL replaced by a guy with an arm and aggressive nature pushing the ball beyond the 5 yard mark.

Pittsburgh and Baltimore on the decline. Cincy mediocre.

Our time is now, with a 5 year plus window just starting to open.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Lars you do realize that scene in the Dark Knight Rises where the Steelers stadium blows up is fictional right?

[Gradysmanldy]

Lars you do realize that scene in the Dark Knight Rises where the Steelers stadium blows up is fictional right?

Got real awkward in the theater when I cheered and clapped for that scene.

My disbelief was truly suspended when I saw who was outrunning guys.

I love this thread, btw. Going to be rehashed no less than 50 times this season. We've got our TT DX thread.

[rk]

Thew correct answer is we looks a ton better but only register 5 wins, fans flip out, randy somehow finds the mettle to stay course, we draft The Honey Badger as the next Troy P and sign a UFA DE & CB and win 10 games in 2013 when the yutes gel.

If the offense plays like an honest to God NFL offense and put points on the board then no changes. Record isn't really that important this year.

If the record sucks and the offense and defense underachieve then Shurmur is gone. Doubt anyone else. Walrus has at least one more HC hire before he's shitcanned. Frankly if you think Weeden comes out of the gates playing like Tom Brady then there's no reason why you shouldn't predict 11 wins.

A decade of title contention runs beging in 2014.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Got a Feeeeeling...

Predicting anything 2 years out is even more whack than predicting 11 wins this year. Weeden could be the most dominating rookie QB since Cam Newton this year, get plenty of wins, and then get hurt by old age in the offseason and we go the Manningless Indy route.

BTW people who hate on predictions of 11 wins or hate on predictions of 1 win are worse than the people making predictions. Worst predictors are the ones who take last years records and decide that this year's records are all gonna be exactly the same. Way to put yourselves out there.

Just don't understand why people can't just wait and see. If the Browns hit on all of their picks they are perfectly capable of winning the division. If Richarson or Weeden suck they're perfectly capable of winning just 1 game.

[mattvan1]

Just don't understand why people can't just wait and see.

Where's the fun in that? Lars is doing what all good message boards need - being an agent provocateur. He's taking a stand (in which he may or not believe) simply to spark intelligent discourse.

Either that or he's a fucking dumbass.

[Govbarney]

Just don't understand why people can't just wait and see.

Because the Tribe is drowning and just traded for a .165 hitter. Cleveland fans have nothing better to talk about.

[LarsHancock]

Consider this people!

2010 Pat Shurmur-coordinated St. Louis Rams improved by 6 games by drafting Sam Bradford in the first and Rodger Saffold in the 2nd. They had a monster at RB in Stephen Jackson, and generally nobody at WR. Ask yourself honestly - was Bradford coming out of Oklahoma really that much better or more pro ready of a QB than Weeden coming out of Ok St? Bradford went #1 because he was the ONLY QB in that draft (Tebow? Claussen? Colt?) and was overvalued. Could Trent Richardson be better RB than Stephen Jackson? And we have Joe Thomas, so our 2nd rounder goes to the right side of the line.

We improve 6 games and that's 10. That's what a QB can do, and the system is now able to be implemented professionally, and the quality of the players is significantly improving. The defense kept us within striking distance in 7 of our losses last year. Colt McCoy was so terrible he couldn't do anything to capitalize on it.

Weeden will make this team look significantly better. There is and was more talent here than the record indicated. Granted, if Weeden gets happy feet and turns into Charlie Frye, peeker will get a nice gift around week 7. But I really liked his play in college, his arm, and his maturity - no question marks on any of those like every other QB we've had since, what, Otto Graham?

Other than the nebulous "time to gel" bullshit, is there really a gaping hole on the offense this year?

Is this a little fanboi rose colored glasses? Perhaps. But dadgummit, the logic is solid, and every year there is a surprise team. Why can't it be Cleveland this year?

[e0y2e3]

Whenever I start to forget how much I loathe you....

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

7 wins and I'll call it a good year. I can't believe Pittsburgh and Baltimore are falling off the cliff just yet.

[Hikohadon]

BTW people who hate on predictions of 11 wins or hate on predictions of 1 win are worse than the people making predictions. Worst predictors are the ones who take last years records and decide that this year's records are all gonna be exactly the same. Way to put yourselves out there.

But the WORST people are the people that hate on people that hate on people that predict... that... wait... uh...

I predict the Browns will win between 0 and 16 games this upcoming regular season.

[fivekmd]

Consider this people!

2010 Pat Shurmur-coordinated St. Louis Rams improved by 6 games by drafting Sam Bradford in the first and Rodger Saffold in the 2nd. They had a monster at RB in Stephen Jackson, and generally nobody at WR. Ask yourself honestly - was Bradford coming out of Oklahoma really that much better or more pro ready of a QB than Weeden coming out of Ok St? Bradford went #1 because he was the ONLY QB in that draft (Tebow? Claussen? Colt?) and was overvalued. Could Trent Richardson be better RB than Stephen Jackson? And we have Joe Thomas, so our 2nd rounder goes to the right side of the line.

We improve 6 games and that's 10. That's what a QB can do, and the system is now able to be implemented professionally, and the quality of the players is significantly improving. The defense kept us within striking distance in 7 of our losses last year. Colt McCoy was so terrible he couldn't do anything to capitalize on it.

Weeden will make this team look significantly better. There is and was more talent here than the record indicated. Granted, if Weeden gets happy feet and turns into Charlie Frye, peeker will get a nice gift around week 7. But I really liked his play in college, his arm, and his maturity - no question marks on any of those like every other QB we've had since, what, Otto Graham?

Other than the nebulous "time to gel" bullshit, is there really a gaping hole on the offense this year?

Is this a little fanboi rose colored glasses? Perhaps. But dadgummit, the logic is solid, and every year there is a surprise team. Why can't it be Cleveland this year?

That St. Louis team improved 6 wins while playing in the NFC west, before San Fran put it together. A bit tougher sledding in the AFC north, but I like your optimism.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

I'm pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but I still can't figure out what Lars is trying to do here, and its driving me nuts.

[jb]

I'm pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but I still can't figure out what Lars is trying to do here, and its driving me nuts.

Y does a dog lick himself?

[LarsHancock]

Hey Peeker...

If, say, Richardson needs a second surgery on his already-surgically-repaired knee, and, oh, I don't know, Joe Haden gets a four game suspension for taking Aderall in Vegas, can I get a mulligan on the bet, as the Browns would then be proven to be a cursed cursed franchise?

Hypothetically, of course.