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Sandusky

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby furls » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:22 pm

That's why I kind of like the idea of not taking a penalty, not getting the NCAA involved and just saying we are taking a year off to get this shit together and make sure our priorities are right. Get the NCAA on board, because I don't think that they really want any of this mess, but they also realize that they cannot walk away if PSU does nothing.

There is no penalty that will satisfy the masses out for blood and there is no way that any of the zealots that are screaming that this is not a football issue will say it is unfair. Now if PSU steps up and does a, "we need to take a year and get this right" they will be applauded by the media for recognizing the severity of the situation, it gets the Nits a bit out of the news and allows another year to pass before we hear the same story every Saturday. Matter of fact, a year latter it will make the Nits the Bad News Bears fighting their way back as sympathetic symbols of the school.

If they play this year, every Saturday will be about the sex scandal and the corruption of the sport. In a year, it can have another plot line. They will not escape the shadow of this next year, but taking a year will allow some of the stink to waft off of this.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Also, the Buckeye fans running around screaming "NEENER, NEENER, SERVES YOU RIGHT FOR MAKING FUN OF TATGATE!!#%!" or "WHAT RECRUITS CAN WE STEAL!@#%$!!!???" should all be shot.


Who cares. People in Pedo protecting houses shouldn't throw stones.

A few rotten anuses on the internets taking some glee from that doesn't represent the fan base at all.

Just like 2,000,000,000,000 people that marched to Casa De Tress, right?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:47 pm

It makes me sicker now, more than ever.
All this cover-up was to protect the legacy of JoePa and the football program. This at the expense of the kids who were victims. And who among us thinks the ones that testified are the only victims. I am guessing that there are 20 to 30 or more victims.

JoePa saying "this is not a football issue." What do you mean, Joe? That's Joe only trying to protect the legacy of his program... and his legacy...

Even now, after all this evidence points that JoePa knew about 1998 and initiated the 2001 cover-up, his son comes out and saying, "we wish he been more aggressive in following up. But clearly he thought it had been handled. There wasn't anything more Joe Paterno could have done because it was an unsubstantiated allegation. I know my father did not know Jerry was a pedophile and did not suspect he was a pedophile."

It had been handled? Sandusky raped a kid in your showers, and he continues to walk around your facilities unchecked, and it has been handled??? C'mon.

My advice to the Paterno family is to shut up and stop protecting JoePa's legacy. It's a shame that he passed away and that this has tarnished his legacy. But it is time to say, "sorry" to the victims. Stop worrying about Joe. Say Joe screwed up. Stop telling us about all the wonderful things JoePa did and stood for.

This far exceeds Woody punching an opponent in the facemask. JoePa's mistake lasted 14+ years. Woody's 5 seconds. Woody's was on national TV. JoePa's behind closed doors.

I look forward to the day that Sandusky offers an apology to all these victims.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:37 pm

Buddies at work with 4 PSU grads, one having just got out of grad school couple months ago. Also have another that went to Kent but grew up about 20 minutes away and is an insane PSU football fan before all this.

Can only offer my view on their response. Initially 8 mos. ago only 1 was willing to realize the non-diety that is JoePa. Now all but 1 want the statue down and for time to just pass and mend the wounds. The last one (grew up nearby) is still firmly entrench in defense of JoePa. He's never changing. Overall they explain themselves as truly conflicted with what is to be done next.

From my conversations and input from them, I think my initial response would have been shut the shit down for a year. The concept of a this just being "a mistake" is so mind-numbingly naive and ignorant to me conjures up the idea of needing to punish the institution and community. Alas, it is not that I have softened on that, I just don't know what to think at this point. All this talk of statues, football games and communities I haven't given enough of thought to in light of the sheer disappointment and tragedy of the entire circumstances laid out. Honestly, I always thought all of these findings were coming to this point from the instant this came out. It was nearly a widely known secret by many around Happy Valley (including a couple of my peers that had been there). They hoped it never came out and 8 mos ago knew this day would soon come. It was inevitable. They've moved past denial into acceptance and coping.

Admittedly though, I look at what took place at the end of the year for Penn St last year and I'm not sure how they'll handle this. I will have a hard time seeing them parade around in the PSU rallying cry like last year if it takes place this coming season. There was such a lack of appreciation and brevity to the situation then I would hope they wouldn't be so pompous and arrogant this upcoming season. Guess that would be a test of the community being debated here.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:43 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Where ^ misses the point is that the community is already punishing itself. Knowing their role in this isn't something that is going to ever or easily be forgotten.

It's not I know a guy, it's a few people, very close and very tied in are telling me (and told me beforehand) the reaction and how it is going to grow and evolve within the Community.

Letting a seemingly squeeky clean guy like Joe Pa grow to what he did sure was delusional, just like it is in every single football town. But it's not like that Community had any idea 5 guys were hiding an America Horror Story.


I completely understand, mostly agree with you, and empathize with those in HV who not only feel betrayed by their School but culpable for what happened.

But it's not about them.

Cancelling the season acknowledges those preyed upon, provides a small amount of dignity for the damaged, and perhaps starts the healing process, if such a thing is even possible. Stopping football for one year is the only humane course of action. It's not meant to punish the Community further, but out of respect for the victims.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:08 pm

FWIW: I have no problem with the canceling the season thing.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:15 pm

Well said matt. It is about some form of non-legal respect for the victims AND about punishment for the establishment in which this shit was allowed to take place. None of which is a reflection on the countless number of people that had zero to do with this, had zero knowledge of the abhorrent decisions and gutless acts committed by people they might or might not have known.

Penn State can't go unscathed in this just b/c their alumni and fans (that were no part of this) need something to hang on to and heal.

Those people are not victims, they are unfortunate pieces of collateral damage.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:20 pm

This all from one of the Wired Editors:

Jason Fagone ‏@jfagone

To anyone talking about a "death penalty" for Penn State football, here are some of the consequences.

First, all other sports die. All. Other. Sports. Because PSU football subsidizes the rest. All women's sports, particularly, go away.

The only sports at PSU that make money are football and men's basketball. And men's basketball only makes $$$ b/c of Big Ten contract.

At that point, Penn State has to drop out of the Big Ten. That's a big deal. B/c membership in Big Ten has been huge for PSU.

Not just athletically but academically. When PSU first joined the Big Ten, it had to compare the rest of the univ. to Big Ten schools.

Major academic powerhouses: Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern. PSU didn't measure up. So huge academic investments were made.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier: it's not just the $40 million football economy that goes. It's academics.

There's a tangible risk of decreased state appropriations; legislators go to football games, get free tix. That's 14 % of total budget.

Applications go down; academic research suggests that more students apply to schools w/winning fb teams.

More applications allows for a greater selectivity of incoming freshman classes = a greater quality of PSU student.

Mr. @MRBIGSPORTSWRITER brought up SMU and Boston College earlier. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

It was actually Boston University, and the BU program was LOSING money, and the students weren't attending games. (e0: TRUTH)

In fact, according to Globe, the B.U. fb team was so unpopular that students were “more likely to have attended an opera than a fb game.”

In 2009, Northeastern University made the same decision, after watching its football team rack up 5 straight losing seasons. (e0: TRUTH: they tried to recruit me... SMH)

And good on them. But Boston is a great city! Lots of other stuff to do. State College is in the middle of nowhere.

Now, I understand that people sincerely believe -- and I believe @BIGSPORTSWRITER sincerely believes -- that the crime is monstrous.

And yes, it is a monstrous crime. I was fucking heartbroken today. It was such a difficult day.

I cannot understand how every adult -- EVERY FUCKING ADULT -- failed to do anything. Except, arguably, maybe, McQueary. MAYBE.

And I feel a great sense of shame and confusion and anger and sadness. Seriously, it was a really hard day.

And I never cared that much about football. I went to like 2 football games as a student. But today was hard anyway.

But here is the thing: I thought that the conversation I was having with @BIGSPORTSWRITER was one about a punishment and a crime.

And the question is, re: the death penalty for PSU football -- does that punishment fit the (uniquely monstrous) crime?

And I was trying to point out: you can't even answer that question if you don't know, or care, about the dimensions of the punishment.

And the punishment, I would argue, would also be quite unique. In fact, unique in all of the history of higher education.

SMU was different. SMU was not a school where the social glue was football.

Finally, I get that some people will still feel like the death penalty is appropriate. And I hear you and I respect that.

--------------

This shit has been going on and will go on all night, just some food for thought.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 pm

That is my only hang up with such a harsh penalty, so many others at PSU will suffer.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:31 pm

SMU was different.

They were paying "kids;" not raping kids.

The only way I can see disagreeing with the DEATH PENALTY(!) here is if you feel that's too harsh of a punishment for anything, ever. Because, to date, this seems a good deal worse than anything, ever.

And RE: "SMU was not a school where the social glue was football." Oh fucking wah. Get a different social fucking glue, then.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Dude, SMU was a school that created a fake football program for fun and had it destroyed. PSU is an institution that used and needs football to perform above 70%.

And at SMU EVERYONE knew. Not just five dudes, only three of which were involved directly with SPORTS!
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:43 pm

BTW: if you kill football, you impact 20,000 workers at PSU.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 pm

And FWIW: because of how close Tress was to my life growing up and as an OSU fan I reacted to his retreating from his moral vehemently. I'm still hurt.

I cannot imagine how I would feel if Joe Pa had played the same role in my life JT did. I'd be mind-fucked six ways from Sunday.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:50 pm

I'm not for a shutdown of the program forever either. What is the definition of the death penalty that people are proposing here? Forever or 1 year or 2 years? Would welcome perspective on

The SMU comparisons are silly. Apples to oranges. And I don't subscribe to the theory that "PSU was raping kids". That type of sensationalism and generalization is what has us to where we are in politics and the media today. Blame Sandusky, blame the 4, blame McQueary, blame the janitors but to blame all of PSU is incredibly broad and rash claim, IMO.

And I've been someone critical and anti-PSU over the past 8 mos.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:52 pm

1. Is the DEATH PENALTY(!) (which for SMU only meant one NCAA-cancelled season anyway) justified for anything, ever?

2. What would ever be worse than this?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:52 pm

FUDU wrote:Penn State can't go unscathed in this just b/c their alumni and fans (that were no part of this) need something to hang on to and heal.


When I was a senior at Hopkins two of my friends were murdered (break-ins) during a two month span.

Hopkins dropped 13 spots in the US News and World ratings the next year because word spread, average SAT score dropped, Alumni donations dropped, etc.

This inspired a whole new Hopkins Disneyland they have now built.

This example is in now way what happened at PSU, but it is exactly what is happening at the same time. That school is about to pay IN THOUSANDS of ways. The endowment is about to be destroyed. Average test scores? Dropping for at least a year? Research grants when the school's various ratings drop... LULZ!!@$!

They are going to pay.

And this doesn't even bring in the personal ownership/guilt aspect.

Seriously, how many of you actually know how a higher-education institution works?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:56 pm

noles1 wrote:I'm not for a shutdown of the program forever either. What is the definition of the death penalty that people are proposing here? Forever or 1 year or 2 years? Would welcome perspective on

The SMU comparisons are silly. Apples to oranges. And I don't subscribe to the theory that "PSU was raping kids". That type of sensationalism and generalization is what has us to where we are in politics and the media today. Blame Sandusky, blame the 4, blame McQueary, blame the janitors but to blame all of PSU is incredibly broad and rash claim, IMO.

And I've been someone critical and anti-PSU over the past 8 mos.


True, but PSU football was raping kids, in a sense, in a real legit sense. The few HMFIC chose to prioritize football over decency, maybe the most inherent decency of all.

Also, I don't think HooDoo is trying to make an apples to apples comparison of programs as much as he is questioning the context of the harshest penalty a school can get in relation to a real crime, not just a money crime. At least that's how I read his take. If you can't drop the hammer on this type of behavior when exactly can you drop the hammer...
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:58 pm

HoodooMan wrote:1. Is the DEATH PENALTY(!) (which for SMU only meant one NCAA-cancelled season anyway) justified for anything, ever?

2. What would ever be worse than this?


That's the problem here. Can you let five guys who do the most heinous crime this year destroy a sport that said crime didn't directly impact while also laying waste to a large chunk of the university as collateral damage?

I agree with your earlier posts regarding the issue being a deep seeded and disgusting human display where we let false gawds become so untouchable they were allowed to pull the wool over our eyes (for the 4,000th time... this year) but just because this one was disgusting I fail to see why the enablers here should be punished more than the enablers anywhere else?

I'm struggling to wrap my head around all of this, because it does speak to a larger societal issue (one most won't acknowledge and you do). I just don't see how "SACRIFICE 20,000 to save 2,000,000!!!" comes into play when all other fan-bases will just fall back to "free tatoos" and "cocaine and whores isn't raping kids!" to justify their further deifications.

This is the point I was trying to make when FUDU was celebrating. This a fucking tragedy. And I don't know the way out, but I hope it involves rebuilding more than nuking.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:59 pm

HoodooMan wrote:1. Is the DEATH PENALTY(!) (which for SMU only meant one NCAA-cancelled season anyway) justified for anything, ever?

2. What would ever be worse than this?



1. Yeah it can be in play under that context. But that's not necessarily what I have been hearing or seeing. I've heard "true death penalties" not just one or two year bans. That's why I asked. Believe it is fair that we get that clarification from poster's opinion.

2. Nothing that I would want to imagine candidly.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Seriously, how many of you actually know how a higher-education institution works?


Think about that statement for a second, in relation to the context at hand. It goes beyond making this mind numbing.

This didn't happen at a day care center next to a run down Arthur Treachers.

It certainly isn't the easiest decision in the world to make, but it is justifiable of the harshest penalty, no doubt.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:06 pm

FUDU wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Seriously, how many of you actually know how a higher-education institution works?


Think about that statement for a second, in relation to the context at hand. It goes beyond making this mind numbing.

This didn't happen at a day care center next to a run down Arthur Treachers.

It certainly isn't the easiest decision in the world to make, but it is justifiable of the harshest penalty, no doubt.


Stop being a fuck.

I'm not defending anything anyone did that was in charge here. This was fucked up, head to torso to achilles.

My point is, you cut an arm off of a higher education institution, or even infect said arm, it spreads quickly and decisively.

We have a poster here that works in said field and probably could add more on this, but, he may choose not to.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:07 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:1. Is the DEATH PENALTY(!) (which for SMU only meant one NCAA-cancelled season anyway) justified for anything, ever?

2. What would ever be worse than this?


That's the problem here. Can you let five guys who do the most heinous crime this year destroy a sport that said crime didn't directly impact while also laying waste to a large chunk of the university as collateral damage?

I agree with your earlier posts regarding the issue being a deep seeded and disgusting human display where we let false gawds become so untouchable they were allowed to pull the wool over our eyes (for the 4,000th time... this year) but just because this one was disgusting I fail to see why the enablers here should be punished more than the enablers anywhere else?

I'm struggling to wrap my head around all of this, because it does speak to a larger societal issue (one most won't acknowledge and you do). I just don't see how "SACRIFICE 20,000 to save 2,000,000!!!" comes into play when all other fan-bases will just fall back to "free tatoos" and "cocaine and whores isn't raping kids!" to justify their further deifications.

This is the point I was trying to make when FUDU was celebrating. This a fucking tragedy. And I don't know the way out, but I hope it involves rebuilding more than nuking.


When a pedophile goes to jail his family goes with out a provider and not only loses materialistic things, they lose respect and other things as well. Should we consider that before administering real justice? Of course not, we can't.

...and that ties into a big reason why you misunderstand the reason to honor the system and those serving in it for the end of Jerry.

To clean up a mess you usually have to make a mess.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:12 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Stop being a fuck.

I'm not defending anything anyone did that was in charge here. This was fucked up, head to torso to achilles.

My point is, you cut an arm off of a higher education institution, or even infect said arm, it spreads quickly and decisively.

We have a poster here that works in said field and probably could add more on this, but, he may choose not to.
Over react much...

I'm just saying think about that, higher education and a world where "men make men"...and the most low life uneducated crime takes place. Hard to hold back on the trigger, that's the point I was making.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:13 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Can you let five guys who do the most heinous crime this year destroy a sport that said crime didn't directly impact while also laying waste to a large chunk of the university as collateral damage?


I think you can.

1) I don't think the impact was so indirect. After '98 happened the way it did, '01 was all about protecting the football program, no?

2) BP was fined a shit ton of money for the gulf oil spill that relatively few BP employees had anything to do with directly. I assume that penalty may have also resulted in collateral damage to innocent employees, through layoffs, etc. (Even if it didn't, imagine it did.) Was it wrong to fine BP?

e0y2e3 wrote:I fail to see why the enablers here should be punished more than the enablers anywhere else?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

Say I was to throw a Haitian cabby off of a 4-storey building. I haven't done anything more or less wrong, based on the level of injuries sustained by this unfortunate Haitian cabby. I've done the same wrong thing, whether he lives or dies, whether he breaks all his arms & legs or merely walks away with hurt feelings. Yet, in the interest of deterring others from killing Haitian cabbies, I would be punished more for what I did if this Haitian cabby did in fact die.

Same theory.
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Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:33 pm

We're going to stick to a numbering system, as I'm not going SD or PROS.

1) I'm not sure how everyone being on board with turning Sankusky over on 2/21/01 and then changing their minds 2/27/01 because Joe Pa spoke and was afraid of his legacy thus talked them out of it makes your argument here any stronger. If anything else, the 2001 incident shows two men bowing to one because he was self-obsessed.

2) Scope. Of. How. Many. Were. Involved. (BP)

3) I agree, you deserve to be penalized based upon the degree your actions inpacted said cock-sucker Hatian here. The difference is, you did it, not you were just another enabler. Just last night 20 people saw a two year old gunned down and none of them spoke up. I don't see their lives being ruined?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:40 pm

A) I guess I don't see much difference between protecting PSU football in '01 and protecting Joe Paterno.

Two) ?

III) If the wrong we're talking about is enabling, then the reason you'd punish one fanbase's enabling over another's (or at least not give a damn about their hurt feelings as collateral damage) is that one fanbase's enabling led to something much worse than the other's. DON"T MIX YOUR WRONGZ.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:41 pm

FUDU wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Stop being a fuck.

I'm not defending anything anyone did that was in charge here. This was fucked up, head to torso to achilles.

My point is, you cut an arm off of a higher education institution, or even infect said arm, it spreads quickly and decisively.

We have a poster here that works in said field and probably could add more on this, but, he may choose not to.
Over react much...

I'm just saying think about that, higher education and a world where "men make men"...and the most low life uneducated crime takes place. Hard to hold back on the trigger, that's the point I was making.


Word, and I wasn't overreacting (I'm not being internet Lee here, trying to be a bit real), I just thought you were probing like a bitch. Read it wrong.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:47 pm

HoodooMan wrote:A) I guess I don't see much difference between protecting PSU football in '01 and protecting Joe Paterno.

Two) ?

III) If the wrong we're talking about is enabling, then the reason you'd punish one fanbase's enabling over another's (or at least not give a damn about their hurt feelings as collateral damage) is that one fanbase's enabling led to something much worse than the other's. DON"T MIX YOUR WRONGZ.


un) When three people make that decision I don't see how you declare it PSU FOOTBALLZ!@#!! Two members still on Bobs staff were working for Joe Pa back then and had less than zero idea WTF was going on. And one of those guys (LJ) has carried him for a half decade.

deux) Publicly traded company, spills a bunch of shit, gets fund guilty and their emergency insurance kicks in. Caps out the environmental insurance (corporate style) and then kicks into reinsurance. Reinsurance gets assfucked (I worked on the WTC asbestos litigation, this is how this thing goes) then goes under. Reinsurance is a corporate entity that exists just to live off of BP and 9/11 not happening, they deserve to get assfucked. BP itself is fine.

trois) Don't care. If you watch/enable/let a crime happen you are either guilty or not. In this country you are not. Until that tide changes it should remain that way. And in this instance it wasn't even people watching, it was people believing in people that were frauds.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:48 pm

HoodooMan wrote: Say I was to throw a Haitian cabby off of a 4-storey building. I haven't done anything more or less wrong, based on the level of injuries sustained by this unfortunate Haitian cabby. I've done the same wrong thing, whether he lives or dies, whether he breaks all his arms & legs or merely walks away with hurt feelings. Yet, in the interest of deterring others from killing Haitian cabbies, I would be punished more for what I did if this Haitian cabby did in fact die.

Same theory.


It depends on where in the country/world you and the cabby and the building were located. In Texas, all you would need to do was claim you were in fear for your life and/or defending your personal property and you would be no-billed by a Grand Jury. Do the same thing in NYC and you're being punished as you describe above. Has nothing to do with PSU; just pointing out that there are some aspects of my state of residence which are decidely stuck in the 1880's.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:51 pm

^ WORD. Pretty much my point. If we want to have a real discussion in terms of what is happening here we need to break down about 10,000 variables on that national level.

If we want to take the cheap out we point at PSU and go ----> DIE!
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:56 pm

Real question, even though "only 5 guys" are the problem here, does anyone at all really believe there weren't a lot more people in some sort of level of know about this? People talk, period. No different than how so many murderers get caught, b/c they told somebody they trusted along the way.

Doesn't mean it can be necessarily proven in a court of law, but surely there are X number of people outside the aforementioned that knew enough to do enough. Not sure I can get all sympathetic for them.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:04 pm

FUDU wrote:Real question, even though "only 5 guys" are the problem here, does anyone at all really believe there weren't a lot more people in some sort of level of know about this? People talk, period. No different than how so many murderers get caught, b/c they told somebody they trusted along the way.

Doesn't mean it can be necessarily proven in a court of law, but surely there are X number of people outside the aforementioned that knew enough to do enough. Not sure I can get all sympathetic for them.


No doubt, and probably 20-30 really *knew*.

I mean Sandusky was one of the most respected defensive coordinators in college football and considered a sure-fire head coach, yet never got a single interview after the '98 incident. Dude would have been hired (non-pedo version) instantly by a dozen schools.

People suspected things from Happy Valley to LA.

No one said a damn word.

They all just pretended like he wasn't there.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:12 pm

Also, my scout membership was cancelled tonight. And my elevenwarriors account I have never posted from was deleted.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:16 pm

Exactly and good point as I was talking strictly close friends etc...

However, again to no defense of anyone in the circle of people and knowledge of event, there is only so much LE will do regarding reports of such allegations, lots of specifics need to be met. However IMO any half brained human being comes forward anyway, just for the sake of 1 in 1000 chance it leads to stopping the continuance of abuse.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:28 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Also, my scout membership was cancelled tonight. And my elevenwarriors account I have never posted from was deleted.



You may as well lock yourself in a dark room with a blanket and a bottle. Idiocy is like death; you can't lock it out, cancel it or avoid no matter what you do.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:31 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Also, my scout membership was cancelled tonight. And my elevenwarriors account I have never posted from was deleted.



You may as well lock yourself in a dark room with a blanket and a bottle. Idiocy is like death; you can't lock it out, cancel it or avoid no matter what you do.


Naw, I can treat message boards like Twitter and only read what I want. I'm invested in this group of assholes so I end up reading all the fucks here. Anywhere else I can avoid. And my friends certainly don't fall into those groups.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Also, my scout membership was cancelled tonight. And my elevenwarriors account I have never posted from was deleted.



You may as well lock yourself in a dark room with a blanket and a bottle. Idiocy is like death; you can't lock it out, cancel it or avoid no matter what you do.


Naw, I can treat message boards like Twitter and only read what I want. I'm invested in this group of assholes so I end up reading all the fucks here. Anywhere else I can avoid. And my friends certainly don't fall into those groups.


Not confining it to that though. Idiots at work, idiots on TV, in sports, at Starbucks, in the bar. It's permeated every single level of society. It's probably always been like that but never before has it been so public.

Just my opinion.

I love Twitter, but even there I find myself annoyed and I can control who I follow. In most cases, anyway. At least I can control that and the re-tweets I see. But in some cases it's become like FB where I get every passing thought and it drives me crazy.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:42 pm

Meh, I am better at insulating than you. I NEVER talk about sports with a single co-worker and only a select group of friends. I never speak politics here and only only do with a select group of friends. Compartmentalization my friend.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:47 pm

Back to the fiasco, I get more pissed every minute with this.

The absolute hypocrisy makes me physically pissed off. Just wondering how JoePa set it straight in his mind to make an example out of a kid like Phil Taylor who was dismissed for a fight and for being an 18yr old kid (and, I'm sure, countless other disciplinary actions against kids who hurt the fine PSU reputation) while he basically harbored a serial rapist of children and gave him run of the city.

I mean seriously, try and wrap your head around that level of filth and hypocrisy. Holding kids accountable to the Gods of Football and Penn State while knowing a 60-yr old man was raping boys in your locker room shower.

Fucking sick.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:02 am

peeker643 wrote:Just wondering how JoePa set it straight in his mind...


Denial, rationalization, etc.

Warp it until it sounds like he was doing the right thing, and you're pretty much there, I'd guess.

I know Jerry, Jerry's a friend, Jerry's a good guy, look at all the great charity work Jerry does, etc. So the guy has his demons. Why tear down all that good, destroy his family, his reputation if you don't have to? We've talked to him, he knows what he did was wrong, he won't do it again. We can't undo what's done, so what's the point of hurting such a good man after the fact?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:09 am

Yep
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:24 am

actual post that Insider's answered on Scout:

Nevada/Bill,

With the Freeh report making NATIONAL headlines, not just ESPN headlines, I was wondering if we could have a discussion that was NOT around what should happen to Penn State or whether the NCAA should be involved or if anything will be done at all. We have plenty of threads for that.

Instead was wondering if there was any insight into currently committed PSU players for 2013 AND any PSU leans that would be legitimate possibilities for tOSU in 2013 given our positions of need. Thanks in advance for any insight anyone has!

Below are the prospects listed in Scout that had tOSU interested and currently committed to PSU.

Zayd Issah (Scout says no OSU offer)
Dorian Johnson
Greg Webb
Adam Breneman
Garrett Sickels
Ross Douglas (Scout says no OSU offer)


Bill The Bank Green actually fucking responded to this.

I then threw up in my mouth and cancelled my membership.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:46 am

What does the death penalty accomplish? The people who are responsible are either in jail, dead, or about to be in jail. Punishing the people who didn't know about it, and had no way of knowing about it just...it doesn't make sense to me. And yeah, maybe it sends a message to never let this sort of thing go again, but...hasn't that message already been sent? Especially in Happy Valley? Right now, Happy Valley is like 1946 Germany, and anything having to do with child rape is like "Mein Kampf". Nobody, anywhere, is going to let any mention, any hint, any joke of child molestation go.

The cloud that this scandal has brought, and the awareness that has come from it will be in our consciousness for a long time. I doubt it ever leaves Happy Valley.

The people responsible are going to get what's coming to them. There's no punishment too great for them. But I think punishing so many for the crimes of so few, no matter how despicable those crimes may be, is too much.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:09 am

This offense at PSU is more disgusting and worse than any NCAA violation in history. But I, too, am struggling with this. I am having a hard time wrapping my arms around this even being an NCAA violation. Its worse. It is breaking the law. You break the law, you lose your job, you go to jail.

In an academic angle, if this were a Chemistry Prof (Sandusky), the Chemistry Dept Head (JoePa), the Academic Dean(AD) and the President, would you shut down the Chemistry department? You would fire those people, they would get charged, and likely go to jail. You wouldn't punish Chem profs who didn't know or Chemistry students.

Woody Hayes punched some kid and lost his job. Coulda been charged with assault. But the program was not punished with an NCAA violation.

Bobby Petrino had an inappropriate fling with a staff member and then hired this unqualified fling on his staff and then lied to his bosses. He got fired. He's a piece of crap. But it isn't an NCAA violation.

Bruce Pearl made recruiting violations. He got fired. UT got sanctioned. No jail for Pearl.

Jim Tressel turned his head to tatoo-gate. He got fired. OSU got sanctioned. But he didn't break the law. He didn't go to jail. But it WAS an NCAA violation.

And I am not really comparing these "crimes" as if they are in any way "the same thing." They are not... not even close. I am saying it only for the sake of separating what are matters of law and what are matters of NCAA.

"Lack of Institutional Control." Yes. Clearly. But is this really an NCAA matter?

It makes me sick that JoePa said this was not a football issue. For him, it should have been. His top assistant was raping kids in their lockerroom shower. He knew about it. Sounds like a football issue. And now, here I am saying it may not be an NCAA issue.

Again, worse than any NCAA violation ever. But I am confused about it...
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby The Score » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:28 am

I'm trying to not get overly cynical. Just sayin'

Start in 1998, when accusations came "officially" to light. Put that first molested kid on the scale on the left side. Then add the next "officially" molested kid to that scale, then the next, and the next, etc. Go forward til 2010 or 2011 or whenever. Then, for the right side, put all the athletic department employees or all the graduate athletes or all the "women's" sports (as if that adds more weight) Next, add all that football money. 8 home games a year, their annual 18 mill from the B1N every year, their cut of the ABC money, merchandising, etc.

What's the "official" number of molestees in this scenario? 10? 13? Whatever. Scale that next to the millions, the graduates, the women's sports, the athletic department employees... How many molestees does it take until PSU shouldn't get off the hook?

2 kids? 8 kids? 12 kids? Well only two kids had their lives fucked. Don't they get that there are 1000s of jobs on the line? When is that scale out of balance?

Talk your philosophy... Should Owens Corning have faced bankruptcy for asbestos? WR Grace for being generally evil and the PSU of the corporate world. Cigarette companies suffered for being dicks. Toyota covered shit up and lost. BP for their gulf failures. Banks folded. Enron.

That's what happens. So what. Athletic Department peeps will lose their jobs. Guess what, their jobs are built on the asses and penises of 12 year old boys. Maybe "deserves got nothing to do with it" or maybe it does. At their core, sports... football... women's sports... scholarships... may seem important, but not on the scale of child rape. PSU has a two billion dollar endowment. They'll survive as a school. Blow the rest of the shit up.

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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:38 am

OldDawg wrote:It makes me sick that JoePa said this was not a football issue. For him, it should have been. His top assistant was raping kids in their lockerroom shower. He knew about it. Sounds like a football issue. And now, here I am saying it may not be an NCAA issue.

Again, worse than any NCAA violation ever. But I am confused about it...


Everything that happens in State College PA is either a football or JoePa (and therefore football) issue.

The key figures worked for the football team at an NCAA school and the events took place in/on the facilities of that school (amongst other places).

It most certainly is, in my opinion, within the domain of the NCAA to involve themselves and do what they will.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:27 am

Jay Paterno did a good job in his interview w/ Rinadli this morning on SC.

Is it possible to find anyone who has an unbiased opinion? Is it possible that the Freeh report is exactly what Jay Paterno says it is, an opinion that was formed by drawing conclusions from partial facts?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Spin » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:38 am

I am tired of hearing people say there is no precedent for the death penalty for "lack of institutional control". And that's not directed at anybody in particular here, more at people in the media.

HELLO???

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There's your precedent. Is what SMU did worse than allowing a rapist to continue, and to run a youth football program so he has easy access to his victims???

If they covered THIS up, what else did they cover up?

And what about the theory that they never ratted Sandusky out because he has dirt on them?
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby Spin » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:42 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Jay Paterno did a good job in his interview w/ Rinadli this morning on SC.

Is it possible to find anyone who has an unbiased opinion? Is it possible that the Freeh report is exactly what Jay Paterno says it is, an opinion that was formed by drawing conclusions from partial facts?


The report includes emails between the four, and other evidence. I'm leaning toward it being accurate. Setting aside Buckeye bias and "other schools have covered up XYZ", the evidence is still damning IMHO.
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Re: Sandusky

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:44 am

What's tough for me is that everytime I've tried to respond to this thread this morning I delete the comment before posting because I cant seem to neatly cut into this and form any clear opinion on what I think should be done at PSU. I keep going down one path and stopped dead in my thoughts by a problem that doesn't square with a punishment or inconsistancy or hypocrisy.

This is a difficult scenario, and above all else I just hope as much of this as possible is handled in criminal court for those most directly involved. For this, more people need to go to jail than Sandusky.
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