Cleveland Browns & The NFL

by **peeker643** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Worth a 2nd next year?

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Receiver needy teams that figure to be interested in Josh Gordon: Browns, Dolphins, Panthers, Colts, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins and more.

Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet
Delete
FavoritedFavorite 2h Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
The 6-foot-3, 225-pound Josh Gordon is expected to be timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.4s or better. He could go as high as 2nd round.

Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet Delete FavoritedFavorite 2h Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Former Baylor WR Josh Gordon, who declared for Thursday's supplemental draft, is scheduled to hold his Pro Day on Tues. at Texans facility.

If you’re big enough and fast enough, they will find you.

According to Adam Caplan of TheSidelineView.com, there’s another player in the NFL’s annual Supplemental Draft, one with the kind of speed to intrigue teams regardless his background.

Former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon will make himself available, after not playing last season while transferring to Utah. He was suspended by Baylor for violating team rules in 2011.

He had 42 receptions for 714 yards (17.0 per catch) and seven touchdowns in 2010, and has been clocked in the low 4.3-second range while at Baylor.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... tal-draft/

by **Hikohadon** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:42 pm

peeker643 wrote:Worth a 2nd next year?

Might be. Same kind of prospect as Stephen Hill, who many wanted us to take in the 2nd round, right?

by **peeker643** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:53 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Worth a 2nd next year?

Might be. Same kind of prospect as Stephen Hill, who many wanted us to take in the 2nd round, right?

Probably a bit more advanced simply because of the offense he played and the balls he had thrown his way, but yeah, same type of raw skills and same type of speed/size. Also same type of route-running concerns PLUS he was kicked off the Baylor team for a drug offense.

But keep hearing more and more about him as the supplemental draft approaches (this Thursday).

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/ds ... &genpos=WR

by **Hikohadon** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:07 pm

What was the nature of the drug offense?

Wouldn't our 3rd be better than, say, the Redskins's 3rd?

by **peeker643** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:29 pm

Hikohadon wrote:What was the nature of the drug offense?

Wouldn't our 3rd be better than, say, the Redskins's 3rd?

Just weed from I what I've read.

And it's a 2013 pick you forfeit which I assume means it would depend on this season's order of finish as to how it ends up. But I'm not sure how the supp draft works in terms of two teams offering 3rd round picks and whether this year's draft order determines who is awarded the player.

I'd imagine that this year's finish would apply and the Browns would be ahead of all but Indy, STL and Minn.

by **Hikohadon** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:What was the nature of the drug offense?

Wouldn't our 3rd be better than, say, the Redskins's 3rd?

Just weed from I what I've read.

And it's a 2013 pick you forfeit which I assume means it would depend on this season's order of finish as to how it ends up. But I'm not sure how the supp draft works in terms of two teams offering 3rd round picks and whether this year's draft order determines who is awarded the player.

I'd imagine that this year's finish would apply and the Browns would be ahead of all but Indy, STL and Minn.

Then, yeah. Weed doesn't scare me in the slightest, and if the cost was a 3rd round pick for a prospect like that, I'd do it.

That would complete a helluva offensive overhaul from last year.

by **Govbarney** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:30 pm

One thing I do like is his height at 6'4, he would immediately become the tallest receiver on our team. If Greg Little was worth a 2nd round pick , I cant see why the Browns brass wouldn't consider this kid worthy of one.

by **Hikohadon** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:56 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/07/baylor-receivers-willie-j_n_754419.html

Two Baylor football players, including one of its top receivers, have been charged with misdemeanor marijuana possession.

Sophomore receivers Willie Jefferson and Josh Gordon are free on their own recognizance after their arrests.

Oooooooo, misdemeanor marijuana possession, oooooooo.

Mangini probably would've taken him right off his board, but Gordon didn't fit the profile of an Eric Mangini draft pick anyway (high character, slow, shitty).

by **bookelly** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:44 pm

Couldn't resist. (smoke)

by **Nicastro13** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:21 am

Everybody's favorite Grossi says were very interested.

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/mor ... st_id=1417

As for the draft order:

"The order of the supplemental draft is decided through a weighted lottery. The order is not disclosed to the teams until about an hour before the draft.

If a team decides to select Gordon, it notifies the league in which round it chooses to take him. The league then goes through the order and awards Gordon to the team with the highest spot in the round. The team awarded him gives up the corresponding pick in next April’s regular draft."

by **peeker643** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:33 am

Nicastro13 wrote:As for the draft order:

"The order of the supplemental draft is decided through a weighted lottery. The order is not disclosed to the teams until about an hour before the draft.

If a team decides to select Gordon, it notifies the league in which round it chooses to take him. The league then goes through the order and awards Gordon to the team with the highest spot in the round. The team awarded him gives up the corresponding pick in next April’s regular draft."

Excellent. Thanks for the clarification on the process. Assuming the lottery is weighted like the NBA lottery for worst teams to have best opportunity...

by **Govbarney** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:01 am

@AdamScheftervia twitter
Josh Gordon is bigger, faster, stronger than former Baylor teammate Kendall Wright. As far as supplemental drafts go, he is a rare talent.

If say Jerry Jones really wants this kid , I could see them out-bidding every one with a #1 pick, they have to figure that it will be a late #1 anyway.

by **pod2dawg** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:49 pm

yes. 2nd round. If crazy Jerry gives up a #1 ; then crazy Jerry wins.

by **jerryroche** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:53 am

Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet
Delete
FavoritedFavorite 2h Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
The 6-foot-3, 225-pound Josh Gordon is expected to be timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.4s or better.

Gordon ran a 4.52 Tuesday, if it makes any difference.

by **bookelly** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:50 am

jerryroche wrote:
Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet
Delete
FavoritedFavorite 2h Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
The 6-foot-3, 225-pound Josh Gordon is expected to be timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.4s or better.

Gordon ran a 4.52 Tuesday, if it makes any difference.

Larry Fitz ran a 4.53...a he turned out pretty good. Still. It's not elite by any stretch. Offer a 3 and hope you get lucky with the lottery rotation.

If not lucky...wipe hands on pants and walk away.

by **Govbarney** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:59 am

Kendall Wright ran a 4.61 at the combine, and then followed it up with a unofficial time of 4.46 at his Pro Day. Gordon strained his Quad during the run which could account for the slower time. Prior to yesterdays workout a lot of reports had him tabbed in the 4.3 arena. This could just be smoke from his agent, but its also something Adam Caplan claimed he could do. Greg Little ran a 4.51 40, and at the time a lot of people said his draft stock benefited greatly from that 40.

Also for comparison:
Greg's last year at College 62 catches for 724 yards and 5 TDs
Josh's last year of College 42 catches for 714 yards and 7 TDs

The one thing I will say about Little is that during his one year sabbatical from football all you heard about was how he was a Work out freak, training with MMA guys, and 100% determined to get back in the game , I have not heard the same accolades out of Gordon's camp, for all I know this guy could have spent the last year getting high and banging Mormons in Utah.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:18 am

Govbarney wrote:Kendall Wright ran a 4.61 at the combine, and then followed it up with a unofficial time of 4.46 at his Pro Day. Gordon strained his Quad during the run which could account for the slower time. Prior to yesterdays workout a lot of reports had him tabbed in the 4.3 arena. This could just be smoke from his agent, but its also something Adam Caplan claimed he could do. Greg Little ran a 4.51 40, and at the time a lot of people said his draft stock benefited greatly from that 40.

Also for comparison:
Greg's last year at College 62 catches for 724 yards and 5 TDs
Josh's last year of College 42 catches for 714 yards and 7 TDs

The one thing I will say about Little is that during his one year sabbatical from football all you heard about was how he was a Work out freak, training with MMA guys, and 100% determined to get back in the game , I have not heard the same accolades out of Gordon's camp, for all I know this guy could have spent the last year drinking koolaid and banging Mormons in Utah.

by **peeker643** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:04 am

They said he's run in 4.35 range but plays in the 4.45 range.

He also was expected to quit the workout and just interview after he tweaked the quad but he ran the entire route tree afterward without a single drop. Not only did it impress regarding his hands but he ran mostly 9's and 7's at Baylor and demonstrated yesterday that he can run all the routes.

I think he helped himself yesterday in listening to and reading the accounts.

As to workout deal, only the last two weeks was he working out. I read it was because it wasn't until recently he decided he wasn't going back to Utah/hired agent/etc. The kid is a bi of a knucklehead in terms of behavior but they say he's bright and willing to learn.

He's also a project having not played for a couple years.

Still, if he's gifted I'd use a 3rd on him. The project part doesn't matter to me. He'll be that much further ahead next September than some 3rd round WR they pick next April (in all likelihood, anyway).

Throw the dice.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:16 am

It sounds like a no brainier to use a 3rd on him, if that will get it done. Next April is a long way away, but right now the consensus is pretty much that the Browns would likely have to use the 1st on a WR, the one position of great need they weren't able to address this year. If they get this guy and he pans out, he's a year ahead of who we would take, but more than that it give the Browns a lot more flexibility next draft to address whatever other needs inevitably become apparent during the course of the season, even if that need remains WR.

Then again, maybe Little and MoMass will become all-pros and accomplish the same thing.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:23 am

motherscratcher wrote:Then again, maybe Little and MoMass will become all-pros and accomplish the same thing.

And maybe Dion Waiters will......and Grady Sizemore will....ahh, eff it. Too early in the morning for that.

I'm all for using a 3rd rounder and giving him a year to learn the system, with his potential. If Weedon is capable and Little progresses (even to a solid number 2) then you go into next year with a first round wideout and a few solid #2's. That's a huge turnaround in your receiving core from a question mark and a bunch of nobodies.

Bottom line is that i'd like to see the brain children in Berea do SOMETHING to address the wide receiving group here.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:30 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Then again, maybe Little and MoMass will become all-pros and accomplish the same thing.

And maybe Dion Waiters will......and Grady Sizemore will....ahh, eff it. Too early in the morning for that.

I'm all for using a 3rd rounder and giving him a year to learn the system, with his potential. If Weedon is capable and Little progresses (even to a solid number 2) then you go into next year with a first round wideout and a few solid #2's. That's a huge turnaround in your receiving core from a question mark and a bunch of nobodies.

Bottom line is that i'd like to see the brain children in Berea do SOMETHING to address the wide receiving group here.

I knew I should have put the dancing banana after that line.

I agree, you can still draft a stud WR #1 next year, but if the Corp becomes adequate you don't have to anymore. You know, in the event that Haden develop chronic plantar facsitis, Sheard's leg falls off, or Thomas moves to Singapore to escape Darcy Egan.

by rk » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:16 pm

peeker643 wrote:Excellent. Thanks for the clarification on the process. Assuming the lottery is weighted like the NBA lottery for worst teams to have best opportunity...

It does not.

It works in tiers of 8 teams. The first 8 will randomly get a slot between 1-8. The second 8 will randomly get slotted from 9-16. Etc.

I believe the lottery affects all rounds so since the Browns ended up with the 4th pick they have the same chance of receiving the first overall as the Colts or Tampa.

So if the Browns believe that there are no teams willing to sacrifice a 1st/2nd round pick for him but believe several of the top 8 teams would be willing to pick him in the 3rd round then they can either roll the dice and make a 3rd round bid or they would need to bid their second round pick.

by **Hikohadon** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:18 pm

rk wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Excellent. Thanks for the clarification on the process. Assuming the lottery is weighted like the NBA lottery for worst teams to have best opportunity...

It does not.

It works in tiers of 8 teams. The first 8 will randomly get a slot between 1-8. The second 8 will randomly get slotted from 9-16. Etc.

I believe the lottery affects all rounds so since the Browns ended up with the 4th pick they have the same chance of receiving the first overall as the Colts or Tampa.

So if the Browns believe that there are no teams willing to sacrifice a 1st/2nd round pick for him but believe several of the top 8 teams would be willing to pick him in the 3rd round then they can either roll the dice and make a 3rd round bid or they would need to bid their second round pick.

When does this completely jacked up lottery take place?

by rk » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:32 pm

I'm a little off. Shouldn't have gone by memory. It's actually going to be weighted between teams tiered by the number of wins. So teams with 6 or fewer wins are on the first tier. And it is weighted so Indy has a better shot than the Browns of getting the best overall.

SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT LOTTERY PROCEDURES.

The League office will conduct said supplemental draft with member clubs via the NFL Waivers account. Immediately before each supplemental draft is to begin, the League office will conduct a lottery to determine the selection order of member clubs, weighted as follows:
(A) Each member club’s position will be weighted by assigning the weakest club the greatest number of lottery chances and the strongest club the fewest number. Team strength and weakness will be determined by the order of the first round of the immediately prior principal draft, exclusive of any trades affecting that prior draft (i.e., the weakest club will have its name in the drawing 32 times, the next weakest 31 times, etc., until the Super Bowl winner will have its name in once);

(B) Lottery chances for the weakest teams (those teams which won six or fewer games in the prior regular season) will be placed together in a container and drawn to determine the initial arrangement of places in the selection order equal to the total number of those teams;

(C) Lottery chances for the remaining teams, with the exception of the playoff teams, will then be placed together in a container and drawn to determine their places following those determined in the first drawing; and

(D) Lottery chances for the playoff teams next will be placed together in a container and drawn to determine the remaining places in the selection order.

The lotto takes place right before the supp draft so we have no idea what the results will be until after the bids are resolved.

by **peeker643** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:43 pm

So the Browns will have 29 tickets in the punch bowl to see where their supplemental slot turns out to be.

Theoretically (as will be evident in a second) let's say they draft number one and put in a 3rd round bid and win.

Then they win the Super Bowl and draft last next April. They would give up the 32nd pick in the 3rd round, correct?

Conversely, with same fact set, let's say Dallas pulls the 14th pick.

They could put in a 2nd round bid (knowing a 3rd ain't gonna do it w/Browns interested ahead of them), finish dead last in the league when Romo gets chlymidia, and forfeit the 1st pick of the 2nd round next April?

Nice little crap shoot this is.

by **Hikohadon** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:08 pm

peeker643 wrote:So the Browns will have 29 tickets in the punch bowl to see where their supplemental slot turns out to be.

Theoretically (as will be evident in a second) let's say they draft number one and put in a 3rd round bid and win.

Then they win the Super Bowl and draft last next April. They would give up the 32nd pick in the 3rd round, correct?

Conversely, with same fact set, let's say Dallas pulls the 14th pick.

They could put in a 2nd round bid (knowing a 3rd ain't gonna do it w/Browns interested ahead of them), finish dead last in the league when Romo gets chlymidia, and forfeit the 1st pick of the 2nd round next April?

Nice little crap shoot this is.

You know how this will go, of course.

Cleveland will put in a 3rd. The Redskins will put in a 3rd too. And the lottery will have Washington ahead of Cleveland, meaning yet another offseason anal-intrusion by Snyder.

EDIT - I am foolishly now willing to throw a 2nd in the mix just to fuck Washington.

by **bookelly** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:24 am

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:So the Browns will have 29 tickets in the punch bowl to see where their supplemental slot turns out to be.

Theoretically (as will be evident in a second) let's say they draft number one and put in a 3rd round bid and win.

Then they win the Super Bowl and draft last next April. They would give up the 32nd pick in the 3rd round, correct?

Conversely, with same fact set, let's say Dallas pulls the 14th pick.

They could put in a 2nd round bid (knowing a 3rd ain't gonna do it w/Browns interested ahead of them), finish dead last in the league when Romo gets chlymidia, and forfeit the 1st pick of the 2nd round next April?

Nice little crap shoot this is.

You know how this will go, of course.

Cleveland will put in a 3rd. The Redskins will put in a 3rd too. And the lottery will have Washington ahead of Cleveland, meaning yet another offseason anal-intrusion by Snyder.

EDIT - I am foolishly now willing to throw a 2nd in the mix just to fuck Washington.

I bet Wash goes 1st round. That Snyder guy is CRAZY.

Even if we lose out on this guy we are still at least a year away from contention. If you stick to the plan...next year should be about losing as many games as you can, as close as you can, while still retaining your job. Say 6 wins or so. I'll be very surprised if they go above a 3 for this guy as he may actually be good enough to push this team into the dreaded "just missed the playoffs" miasma. Which is NOT part of the plan.

by **StewieG** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:53 am

Can Wash use a 1st on him, being as they don't have one for the next couple years?

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:25 am

StewieG wrote:Can Wash use a 1st on him, being as they don't have one for the next couple years?

I don't see how they could. But even God bends over for the boys in DC.

by **Govbarney** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:38 am

Anyone know when we find out the results about this today?

by **peeker643** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:33 am

Govbarney wrote:Anyone know when we find out the results about this today?

Just like the quiet, understated regular part of the NFL Draft, this is done via email and it starts today at 1pm. Gordon may well be the only player selected in the draft.

Who wants to meet at Wright Place to see what happens and throw down some beers and wings?

by **Govbarney** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:46 am

To get in the spirit of things I am going to post my Mock Supplemental Draft:
Rnd 1: _____
Rnd 2: _____
Rnd 3: Cleveland: Josh Gordon
Rnd 4: _____
Rnd 5: _____
Rnd 6: New England: Larry Lumpkin
Rnd 7: _____

by **peeker643** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:59 am

Govbarney wrote:To get in the spirit of things I am going to post my Mock Supplemental Draft:
Rnd 1: _____
Rnd 2: _____
Rnd 3: Cleveland: Josh Gordon
Rnd 4: _____
Rnd 5: _____
Rnd 6: New England: Larry Lumpkin
Rnd 7: _____

That's solid work there.

But I don't think Lumpkin goes til the 7th and maybe not at all.

1 player draft. Kind of like the year Kyrie Irving came out.

by **motherscratcher** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:29 am

If that was a one player draft why do spend so much time bitching about Thompson?

by **pod2dawg** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:00 pm

bookelly wrote:
Even if we lose out on this guy we are still at least a year away from contention. If you stick to the plan...next year should be about losing as many games as you can, as close as you can, while still retaining your job. Say 6 wins or so. I'll be very surprised if they go above a 3 for this guy as he may actually be good enough to push this team into the dreaded "just missed the playoffs" miasma. Which is NOT part of the plan.

I don't know BK, I get the whole "need to lose thing" (see Cavs), but we are so bad at WR, I think this kid is good enough to warrant a #2. He ain't going to get us 3 additional wins this year, but would be a nice probably #2 for the future.

Mass could grow hands I guess, Little could learn separation & consistency I guess, Cribbs could learn how to run a route, Norwood could just grow.... :dead:

by **peeker643** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:15 pm

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
First round over - no picks.

Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet
Delete
FavoritedFavorite

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:24 pm

Just heard on 92.3 that the Browns have the 2nd pick in each round (Buffalo has the 1st).

A 3rd might get it done.

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:25 pm

Never mind - Browns got him with the 2nd.

Fuck you Washington.

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Aw hell yeah! I'm so excited the Browns got a guy I heard of 3 days ago!

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:31 pm

But in all seriousness, considering the Browns will likely have a bottom 5 record in the NFL, this pick would have been somewhere between 33-37 next year. Only the elite WRs get drafted in the top 37, so this kid better be damn worth it.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 pm

LULZ AT OVERPAYING FRONT OFFICE

by **pup** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Ballsy. But I like it. Obvious need. High upside. With a good season, you could see this guy being a top 37 pick in 2013 pretty easily. And you get a "free" year to develop him in your offense.

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Schefter just tweeted that the Browns were the only team to put in a 2nd round bid, meaning they coulda had him in the 3rd. Typical Browns draft!

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:40 pm

I would think that this guy is comparable to Stephen Hill as far as talent set, and guys like that go in the 2nd round.

It sucks they're out a 2nd round pick now, but at least it feels like there's urgency to win sooner than later.

by **JCoz** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:41 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:But in all seriousness, considering the Browns will likely have a bottom 5 record in the NFL, this pick would have been somewhere between 33-37 next year. Only the elite WRs get drafted in the top 37, so this kid better be damn worth it.

I agree its a big price. But articles before the supplimental seem to be in relative agreement that not only was he at least as good a prospect as Quick or Hill but rated better than.

Considering there was a large contingent of people who wanted them or other 2nd rd WR's, I'm not sure many can knock the pick.

I just am not real excited about the prospect of picking a guy with that much talent who was supposedly kicked off Baylor for weed(?!?) and then hasn't played for a year.

It is exciting to have a real prospect at WR joining the Browns for next year though.

by **pup** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:46 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Schefter just tweeted that the Browns were the only team to put in a 2nd round bid, meaning they coulda had him in the 3rd. Typical Browns draft!

And had they used a 3rd and someone took him in the 2nd...the reaction would be?

by jb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:46 pm

WR prospects with drug and other baggage make me as nervous as a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs, but I applaud the aggression and decisiveness of the org on this one.

Fingers crossed.

by **pup** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:48 pm

I liken it to the Indians trade for Ubaldo. Risk? Shit ya. But after years of complaining about doing nothing, it is going to be hard to kill them for doing something.

by jb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:48 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Aw hell yeah! I'm so excited the Browns got a guy I heard of 3 days ago!

be honest - what did you know of Stephen Hill in July 2011?

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:48 pm

pup wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Schefter just tweeted that the Browns were the only team to put in a 2nd round bid, meaning they coulda had him in the 3rd. Typical Browns draft!

And had they used a 3rd and someone took him in the 2nd...the reaction would be?

Pissed. Doesn't take away from the humor that the Browns once again took a guy a round higher than anyone else.

Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Who is online

Who is online