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Perez Rants Again

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Perez Rants Again

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:13 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/sport ... ref=sports

Perez has expressed frustration with that, and did so again Monday. He said fans seemed to care more about rooting against LeBron James and the Miami Heat than they do about rooting for the Indians.

“I don’t get the psyche,” said Perez, who grew up in Florida. “Why cheer against a guy that’s not even in your city anymore? Just to see him fail? Does that make you feel good? I could see if the Cavs were in the championship, but that’s their mentality.

“They’ve had a lot of years of misery. They say, ‘You just don’t understand because you don’t live here.’ O.K., maybe I don’t. But that doesn’t mean it has to keep going.”

The Indians drew more than 3 million fans for six seasons in a row starting in 1996, the year the N.F.L. Browns moved to Baltimore. The new version of the Browns has not won a playoff game in its 13 seasons.

“That’s what I don’t understand,” Perez said. “Their whole thing is, ‘We want a winner.’ Well, why do you support the Browns? They don’t win. They’ve never won. They left. You guys blindly support them. I don’t understand it. It’s a double standard, and I don’t know why.

“It’s head-scratching. It’s just — they don’t come out. But around the city, there’s great support. They watch it in the bars. They watch it at home. They just don’t come.”


He mentioned the sacred Browns now. So much for all that cheering for him.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:43 pm

P{ssst. hey Chris....
It's the Dolan's stupid.

Regardless of how one may argue reality, the casual fan base is completely turned off by their approach to the game. And there aren't enough hard-core baseball fans in NEO.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Sounds to me like someone trying to get on the bad side and force a trade out of town.

Since people blindly support the Browns, they should blindly support the Indians? An organization that has repeatedly told us they can only even attempt to compete on occasion when the stars align?

Come on down....maybe this is the year we catch every break? That could be the new marketing slogan. Beats the hell out of the current one "Remember how great it was, maybe these guys are those guys".
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:55 pm

pup wrote:Sounds to me like someone trying to get on the bad side and force a trade out of town.

Since people blindly support the Browns, they should blindly support the Indians? An organization that has repeatedly told us they can only even attempt to compete on occasion when the stars align?

Come on down....maybe this is the year we catch every break? That could be the new marketing slogan. Beats the hell out of the current one "Remember how great it was, maybe these guys are those guys".


At this point, i'm happy swapping Perez with a decent RH bat and a middle reliever.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:12 pm

I get his points and I understand his point of view things but he just doesn't need to say them. No good will come from him constantly rehashing these points or saying stuff like this.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:17 pm

pup wrote:Sounds to me like someone trying to get on the bad side and force a trade out of town.


It sure seems that way.

One rant can be explained away as emotional, shoot from the hip, whatever. A second, extended criticism of the fanbase starts to look like deliberate trolling. Even if there's a grain of truth in what Perez is thinking re: blind loyalty towards the Browns, it's not his place.

(Not excusing the marketing tone deafness of the Indians either though.)

Why cheer against a guy that’s not even in your city anymore? Just to see him fail? Does that make you feel good?

Also sounds like a guy who's expecting to be cheered against once he's out of town.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby googleeph2 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:20 pm

So Chris Perez wants us to be like other cities- who also dislike Lebron, but pretty much just because he chose not to play there when he skipped town.

Or does he think we should be more like those great fans of Miami?
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:29 pm

Also sounds to me like a guy trying to talk his way outta town.

I am not opposed to selling high on Perez. I think he's a good closer. Not great. Been pitching great though.

The team desperately needs a LF and a SP and has no internal candidates that are ready. Bullpen is the spot of strength in this org with some kids on the farm that can help now. No way I trade Vinnie.

I move Perez or Hagadone. Relievers are fickle. Smart teams always sell high on em and let em walk away on contract years.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:38 pm

I just think that Perez is an emotional guy who has a hard time expressing himself in a way that doesn't sound critical. The argument he's making isn't wrong. The Browns get a free pass from the fans and media in this town all the time. Only lately, with Holmgren's abrasiveness, have people started to call out the front office.

I think he has the wrong expectations about what his comments will do. When you think about it, you've got people like me, who have made this point before and completely agree with what Perez is saying regarding the Browns. But, then, you have people who eat, sleep, live, and shit the Browns who aren't going to take kindly to this. The Browns are a staple and an institution, for better or for worse.

Outside of the list of reasons why the Browns draw better - Sundays, winter, once a week, fewer home games, etc., etc. - the Indians attendance does suck.

I wouldn't say this is his way of trying to get out of Cleveland. I think, in his head, he's trying to assume this role of vocal team leader/spokesperson for the team to say what they're thinking but won't say out loud.

I'll give him props for saying something. The timing couldn't be worse as the Indians look like shit of late. Also, getting baited in by a New York paper doesn't seem smart.

You either love what he said or you hate it. I don't think that there's a lot of in between.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Spin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:42 pm

pup wrote:Sounds to me like someone trying to get on the bad side and force a trade out of town.

Since people blindly support the Browns, they should blindly support the Indians? An organization that has repeatedly told us they can only even attempt to compete on occasion when the stars align?

Come on down....maybe this is the year we catch every break? That could be the new marketing slogan. Beats the hell out of the current one "Remember how great it was, maybe these guys are those guys".


That's basically what their "What if..." campaign is.

"What if" Johnny Damon is the next Eddie Murray?
"What if" Jenmar Gomez becomes Charles Nagy?
"What if" they actually WON the fuckin World Series this time?
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:03 pm

He's either trying to talk his way out of town or just doesn't understand Cleveland at all as a sports town, even after having played here for two years now.

Could easily be the latter. Perez isn't exactly Norman Einstein.

Like Cleveland sports 101. Undying faith to the football for all the reasons we always mention. Dislike of the ownership of the baseball team leading to a fairweather following. And how it is completely unrealistic to expect anything less than unbridled hate for the former star of the basketball team after he quit on the team in the playoffs and then how he left after.

He either wants out, or is clueless. Or both.

Either way. Sell high.

Nothing against the guy. I think he has the makeup for sure to be a good closer long term. Stuff is B+, not A. I like him as our closer and think he's been great overall.

But he's likely to never have more value than now. For a team with major holes, no way to fill em, and a chance to win their division.

It's just the right baseball move. With their payroll limitations and weak upper level farm system, Indians have to make moves like this.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:11 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I just think that Perez is an emotional guy who has a hard time expressing himself in a way that doesn't sound critical. The argument he's making isn't wrong. The Browns get a free pass from the fans and media in this town all the time. Only lately, with Holmgren's abrasiveness, have people started to call out the front office.

I think he has the wrong expectations about what his comments will do. When you think about it, you've got people like me, who have made this point before and completely agree with what Perez is saying regarding the Browns. But, then, you have people who eat, sleep, live, and shit the Browns who aren't going to take kindly to this. The Browns are a staple and an institution, for better or for worse.

Outside of the list of reasons why the Browns draw better - Sundays, winter, once a week, fewer home games, etc., etc. - the Indians attendance does suck.

I wouldn't say this is his way of trying to get out of Cleveland. I think, in his head, he's trying to assume this role of vocal team leader/spokesperson for the team to say what they're thinking but won't say out loud.

I'll give him props for saying something. The timing couldn't be worse as the Indians look like shit of late. Also, getting baited in by a New York paper doesn't seem smart.

You either love what he said or you hate it. I don't think that there's a lot of in between.


Yes, the attendance does suck. Maybe instead of Fat Perez (who I love as our closer if he would just STFU about the fans) throwing daggers at the fans, he should take some time and see why the baseball fans don't flock down there anytime they win 3 out of 4. Throw some daggers at his bosses for not doing enough to improve the product you want those fans to see. Quit selling fans a pile of shit and telling them it is filet.

The argument is old and even I am growing tired of it. You win, we come. In that order. Not the other way around. Get crazy and win during a season, then do something to improve before the next season. Shit isn't that hard.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:16 pm

swerb wrote:He either wants out, or is clueless. Or both.


This.

So a New York newspaper guy is talkign to Perez, and asks him a question like, "What were you thinking while the Cleveland fans were rooting for Lebron to lose?" And Perez's first thought should be, "Question about Cleveland fans: DANGER. DANGER. Minefield ahead."

You'd think that after the first time this happened someone would've sat Perez down and given him a refresher viewing of the cliches scene from Bull Durham. It doesn't even matter if the athlete is *right* when he makes his off-script comments, because just to wade into these issues is more trouble then he's worth.

I thought that Perez could've netted some offensive help in the offseason. I still think he can: value for value.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:19 pm

Good. Cleveland fans deserve it, especially Browns fans.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Call me when he says something that isn't 100% true.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:24 pm

Perez' points are not completely irrational, on the surface, but as mentioned already he's not as connected as he thinks or as most others here are.

Plus JB hits on the most under appreciated aspect, this just isn't a hard core baseball town. It's a good baseball town when the team is good (spare me the "this team is good crap"), it's a decent baseball town otherwise. Not to mention, believe it or not, this city has more & more things to do each summer as of late, the Indians actually have competition. But ultimately this is a football town. It sounds cliche, it sounds like an excuse for up & down support for Tribe & Cavs, but it is the reality.

This town relates, and connects to the game of football way more than it does baseball.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:25 pm

And as I said before, then the other teams should just move.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Any chance Perez is just another in a long line of fucking assholes?

You know, like we'd consider him if he pitched in 29 other cities?
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:Any chance Perez is just another in a long line of fucking assholes?

You know, like we'd consider him if he pitched in 29 other cities?

That's basically what I was getting at. You have a way of just getting to the point quicker and more effectively. :thumb up:
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:36 pm

peeker643 wrote:Any chance Perez is just another in a long line of fucking assholes?

You know, like we'd consider him if he pitched in 29 other cities?


Possibly. He may be on the verge of spiraling out of control. I mean, he's gone to the point of showing up the Royals, for christ sake.

I've always said that this team needed a guy with some asshole tendencies. To be vocal, to play with a swagger. To hang his junk out there and wave it around.

Now, I'm not so sure I want guys like that. He's backed it up with his performance this year, but when you start attacking the fans, whether what you're saying is right or wrong, you aren't doing yourself any favors.

Again, I agree with his notion about the Browns. I have been disconnected from LBJ because I always thought he was an asshole and the Yankees hat thing in 2007 sealed it for me, so I could care less that he's gone and that he won a title.

So, I'm in Perez's target demographic with these comments. But, a lot of people aren't. And that's where the problem with them lies.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:36 pm

pup wrote:The argument is old and even I am growing tired of it. You win, we come. In that order.


Let's consider this another way. Let's suppose the Indians *aren't* winning. And not just not winning, but stupendously bad. They are a 55 win team. What should their attendance be? It's not going to be zero. (FWIW Dept.: In 1991, the 57-105 Indians drew just over 1M fans. Lowest MLB attendance except for Montreal.).

Now, how much higher should attendance be if they are (as they were last year, and as they were expected to be coming into this season) a .500 team? The last place attendance for this season suggests that wins 60 though (approximately) 90 make very little marginal difference in attendance. So: "You win, we come" actually means "You win (the division), we come (next year)"

By the way, if that is a fair evaluation of the Indians fanbase, that the Indians would get very little improvement in attendance between Awful and Mediocre, but that attendance would spike for a 90+ win team, that it actually makes the "Go for contention only occasionally" strategy exceptionally rational. If there's no benefit in attendance for trying to improve a 70 win team into an 80 or even 85 win team...why bother? Only make an effort it's actually going to have a real difference for a probable contending team.

(Of course, the 2007 offseason showed that they weren't even willing to do that.)
Last edited by Jumbo on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:39 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And as I said before, then the other teams should just move.


Or the owner stops worrying about his profit and gives people a reason to attend.
Or the President stops worrying about his small market legacy and gives people a reason to attend.
Or the GM stops being a puppet and gives people a reason to attend.

I got an idea. Let's waste a bunch of money and create a really pretty place to practice and rehab on the other side of the country. That will bring in some free agents.

I got an idea. When you have THE MOST GLARING OF NEEDS don't be afraid of adding another year to a contract offer.

I got an idea, stop trading Cy Young winners for 4th outfielders, utility guys and matchup left handers.

People see what they see. And that is what people see.

I got an idea, stop telling people we can only be good once you give us your money.
I got an idea, stop telling people we need to get lucky to compete twice a decade.
I got an idea, stop telling people this could be like it was, if only these guys were as good as those guys.

People hear what they hear. And that is what people have heard.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:41 pm

I think he wants out and is also clueless, I agree on selling high. This act is getting tired, and I would imagine the bosses aren't going to like the extra national attention to the attendance woes.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:44 pm

swerb wrote:Also sounds to me like a guy trying to talk his way outta town.


Meh. He can do much better if he puts his mind to it.

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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:46 pm

The other side of the coin could be, we ARE the smartest baseball fans in the world, realizing this team is meh and probably going to finish below .500.

:hide:
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:55 pm

FUDU wrote:This town relates, and connects to the game of football way more than it does baseball.


Like a person in a physically abusive relationship who can't make themselves leave.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby NH Tribe Fan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:56 pm

FUDU wrote:The other side of the coin could be, we ARE the smartest baseball fans in the world, realizing this team is meh and probably going to finish below .500.

:hide:


LOL....sad but I think we all realize that is a very likely outcome.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:01 pm

FUDU wrote:The other side of the coin could be, we ARE the smartest baseball fans in the world, realizing this team is meh and probably going to finish below .500.

:hide:


But that's what I was trying to get at above. Suppose the team finishes at 76-86. What "should" the attendance rank of that team be? 20th? 25th? Last?

Conversely, how far above .500 do the Indians need to be before they get to 29th place in attendance?
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Bigfist » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Well, if he is trying to get traded, I see a few teams that might be interested in his services...Boston, the Angels, St. Louis, and possibly Cincinnati. Anyone know how long Francisco for the Mets is out for?

Of course, we do have long trading histories with Boston and Cinci. Can't see, though, what those teams would give us in return.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby aclayman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:19 pm

If the Indians played 8 home games a year-- even as a mediocre team-- they would sell out all 8 games EASILY (and obviously). The apples/oranges of football/baseball is so extreme that the constant comparisons gets to be maddening. Whether or not Cleveland is "a football town first" or not, it's EIGHT freaking games. To reverse it, if you had a chance to watch god awful football 81 times a year, would you really make that investment? Would you be there for a meaningless Game 37, Wednesday afternoon matchup between the Browns and Jaguars? Some people certainly would. I am guessing about 15,000 - 20,000 or so.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:24 pm

That argument would make sense if the Indians weren't, you know, 30th in attendence.

The worst football team in the world sells out every game.

The Indians, performing solidly rank dead last.

The argument comes into play beacuse of those facts, nothing else.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:24 pm

If I had to pick a reason with a gun to my head....

I just think the guy is a dumb.

Some of the things some are assuming he should comprehend.....he's living a life that makes many a man extremely self-unaware. And he's to dim to realize any ramifications.

Dumb Ass.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Govbarney » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:26 pm

I think this Idea of the unyielding faith of Browns fans is a bit of a over exaggeration, I would almost call it a Myth.

From about March through October all you hear is Browns town, and about this almost nazi like loyalty of the 70,000 screaming fans every Sunday through rain, snow, and sleet.

If this where true why do I see so much Black and Gold when we play the Steeler's on Sunday in December, or the empty upper decks after Halloween, and why did my father have to buy a 4 story antenna to get a signal from Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and London Ontario in the eighties (when they where a hell of a lot better then they are now, and the tickets and beer were alot cheaper).

It all comes down to winning; If the Browns win , then that eye sore on the shores of Lake Erie becomes pandamoniom palace, they lose then you cant give the tickets away for free.

I think the same holds true for the Tribe. Cleveland fans are smart enough to know if it looks like shit, smells like shit , and tastes like shit, well then it probably is shit regardless of what the record was in April, May, and June.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:31 pm

aclayman wrote:If the Indians played 8 home games a year-- even as a mediocre team-- they would sell out all 8 games EASILY (and obviously). The apples/oranges of football/baseball is so extreme that the constant comparisons gets to be maddening. Whether or not Cleveland is "a football town first" or not, it's EIGHT freaking games. To reverse it, if you had a chance to watch god awful football 81 times a year, would you really make that investment? Would you be there for a meaningless Game 37, Wednesday afternoon matchup between the Browns and Jaguars? Some people certainly would. I am guessing about 15,000 - 20,000 or so.


Nobody is saying that isn't true.

But the Indians drawing 2,275,912 in 2007 and the Browns drawing 584,006 that same year doesn't add up to me. The Indians have 10x the home games, but less than 4x the attendance? Maybe something just isn't clicking for me, but that just doesn't seem right.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby aclayman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:That argument would make sense if the Indians weren't, you know, 30th in attendence.

The worst football team in the world sells out every game.

The Indians, performing solidly rank dead last.

The argument comes into play beacuse of those facts, nothing else.


Astute observation, but my point is that I don't necessarily believe the fans have more loyalty to-- and faith in-- the Browns than the Indians. They just have fewer occasions in which to angrily tolerate the Browns' shittiness. The cynical, fairweather mindset is there in equal doses for all three sports, in my opinion. So, yes, ranking 30th in MLB is an issue. But comparing that to the city's football attendance (when, as you say, the worst team in the world sells out every game) seems just completely pointless at best. I never really picked up on this electric, undying devotion to the Browns being a reality of the 21st century... particularly with young people who don't even remember Bernie Kosar and have essentially zero warm and fuzzy memories of the franchise.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:44 pm

aclayman wrote:If the Indians played 8 home games a year-- even as a mediocre team-- they would sell out all 8 games EASILY (and obviously). The apples/oranges of football/baseball is so extreme that the constant comparisons gets to be maddening. Whether or not Cleveland is "a football town first" or not, it's EIGHT freaking games. To reverse it, if you had a chance to watch god awful football 81 times a year, would you really make that investment? Would you be there for a meaningless Game 37, Wednesday afternoon matchup between the Browns and Jaguars? Some people certainly would. I am guessing about 15,000 - 20,000 or so.


If this is true, why are half the MLB teams drawing at 70%? The freaking Twins are drawing 87% and they down-right SUCK after sucking last year.

The Cubs are 92% and they suck worse, but Cubs fans are a different breed...

KC is drawing 20% more than we do.

Kansas Fucking City. Oh yeah, they suck.

Padres. 60% Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Hmmm. Go to the beach or watch the Padres suck?

Cleveland fans fell out of love with the Tribe and dumped them for their heroin addicted brother, the Browns, when they came cruising back into town after a weekend bender in Vegas. They slept around with the Cavs for a while until they ran out of money.

Chris Perez may be an asshole, but he's totally right on this one.

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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:48 pm

The young fans argument doesn't matter in a region like Cleveland where most young people run away as fast as they can.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Spin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:57 pm

swerb wrote:He's either trying to talk his way out of town or just doesn't understand Cleveland at all as a sports town, even after having played here for two years now.


Hell I've been a Cleveland fan all my 46 years and still don't understand the "typical" Cleveland fan.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Spin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:01 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And as I said before, then the other teams should just move.


...or get good.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby aclayman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:04 pm

Again, I am not arguing that Cleveland is dutifully supporting its Tribe. Of course the attendance is pathetic. Simply saying that our comparative football attendance is not a good barometer for making that point. Football and baseball are different species of entertainment. It's like saying, "Cleveland sold out an arena to see Brad Paisley, but all the rock acts at the Beachland only draw 100 people each night. This must be a country music town."
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:07 pm

Govbarney wrote:I think this Idea of the unyielding faith of Browns fans is a bit of a over exaggeration, I would almost call it a Myth.

From about March through October all you hear is Browns town, and about this almost nazi like loyalty of the 70,000 screaming fans every Sunday through rain, snow, and sleet.

If this where true why do I see so much Black and Gold when we play the Steeler's on Sunday in December, or the empty upper decks after Halloween, and why did my father have to buy a 4 story antenna to get a signal from Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and London Ontario in the eighties (when they where a hell of a lot better then they are now, and the tickets and beer were alot cheaper).

It all comes down to winning; If the Browns win , then that eye sore on the shores of Lake Erie becomes pandamoniom palace, they lose then you cant give the tickets away for free.

I think the same holds true for the Tribe. Cleveland fans are smart enough to know if it looks like shit, smells like shit , and tastes like shit, well then it probably is shit regardless of what the record was in April, May, and June.



The Browns start off drawing until they suck. Then the exodus happens, but every year there is a ground swell of support until lost.

The Indians don't get that credit and extension of faith, and now they don't even get attendance when they win.

I'm not even sure that I understand this alleged "debate". So Imina go Rammy on this.

1. Average Cleveland fan views the Dolan ownership on about the same favorability level as Congress. You can say that is unfair and make a case against, you can say average Cleveland fan is ignant, but it is what it is. Nothing short of post season and sustained winning seasons is gonna get this town amped and even then attendance won't be "great".

2. Cleveland is a football region. Get over it. It just is. It's in the blood. Plenty of markets this size support NFL & MLB, so this harping on the Browns like as if this is sum zero is ignorant. Leave them out of it. If the Tribe can't draw it is on the Tribe and the fans.

3. Cleveland is not a good baseball town. It just isn't. You can yell "455" to me until yer blue in the face and we all know the perfect storm that created that. We all know Cleveland is no Cincinnati, St. Louis or KC as a baseball town. Having said that, it should still bebetter than 30th in attandance. See the note on the Dolans.

4. Given the current players, the Indians have as much marketability as salt. cab't help but contrastthem to the young Pirates Huntington has build becasue he can F'ing draft worth a damn.

5. None of this is Chris Perez's cross to bear even though he's right. Nothing he's doing off the mound is remotely productive.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Spin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm

aclayman wrote:If the Indians played 8 home games a year-- even as a mediocre team-- they would sell out all 8 games EASILY (and obviously). The apples/oranges of football/baseball is so extreme that the constant comparisons gets to be maddening. Whether or not Cleveland is "a football town first" or not, it's EIGHT freaking games. To reverse it, if you had a chance to watch god awful football 81 times a year, would you really make that investment? Would you be there for a meaningless Game 37, Wednesday afternoon matchup between the Browns and Jaguars? Some people certainly would. I am guessing about 15,000 - 20,000 or so.


Govbarney wrote:I think this Idea of the unyielding faith of Browns fans is a bit of a over exaggeration, I would almost call it a Myth.

From about March through October all you hear is Browns town, and about this almost nazi like loyalty of the 70,000 screaming fans every Sunday through rain, snow, and sleet.

If this where true why do I see so much Black and Gold when we play the Steeler's on Sunday in December, or the empty upper decks after Halloween, and why did my father have to buy a 4 story antenna to get a signal from Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and London Ontario in the eighties (when they where a hell of a lot better then they are now, and the tickets and beer were alot cheaper).

It all comes down to winning; If the Browns win , then that eye sore on the shores of Lake Erie becomes pandamoniom palace, they lose then you cant give the tickets away for free.

I think the same holds true for the Tribe. Cleveland fans are smart enough to know if it looks like shit, smells like shit , and tastes like shit, well then it probably is shit regardless of what the record was in April, May, and June.


The Indians are a half game out of first, two games above .500. And rank almost LAST in attendance.

The Browns were in last place, won 25% of their games, and still ranked 18th in attendance. Almost the median, and just a tick below league average.

If I could find numbers on merchandise sales, it would be the same. Despite the 7 month baseball season vs. the 4 month football season.
Last edited by Spin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:16 pm

aclayman wrote:Again, I am not arguing that Cleveland is dutifully supporting its Tribe. Of course the attendance is pathetic. Simply saying that our comparative football attendance is not a good barometer for making that point. Football and baseball are different species of entertainment. It's like saying, "Cleveland sold out an arena to see Brad Paisley, but all the rock acts at the Beachland only draw 100 people each night. This must be a country music town."


Fans of sport invent reasons the Browns will turn it around every year while the same people invent reasons not to support the Indians.

That attitidue is a zero sum game, because the fans make it one.

I think your point should hold and this shouldn't be a one or the other thing, but unfortunately far too many people do make it that (and the Cavs attendence is pretty damn bad as well).

Cleveland is a shit sports town for teams that don't wear shit and organge it just is what it is.

Even when Dolan goes and ups payroll in 2008 with the playoff money no one gives a fuck.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby aclayman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:22 pm

Attendance rankings in football come down to the size of your stadium. Most teams (save for the Bengals and Jags) sell out their games. It's the NFL. This has nothing to do with whether the Browns or Indians are more beloved by Clevelanders (yes, it's the Browns). The point-- again-- is that pointing to football attendance numbers, as Perez does, as some argument of "blind loyalty" is stupid. If you're an NFL team, you are probably selling out your games. It's not really a statement on anything, let alone the quality of your city's baseball fans. If he wants to rip on us for being #30, s'all good. Just don't drag the Browns into this.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:52 pm

And most other markets behave in a manner that doesn't reflect publicly choosing one sport over another.

The fans in Cleveland don't, thus making the argument valid.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:Any chance Perez is just another in a long line of fucking assholes?

You know, like we'd consider him if he pitched in 29 other cities?


This^^^^^.

Just shut the fuck up and throw your amazingly skilled 1 inning of baseball that you get paid waaaaay too much for.

Nobody cares what you think. Just say you want to be traded and fuck off.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Pressrunnr » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:37 pm

I have to disagree w/Perez on a couple points:
* Has there really been that much Lebron hand-wringing in the past year? Even in the Finals? Seems to me, sure if it's a question of cheer for him or cheer against him, we'll opt for the latter. But I think people are for the most part "over it."
* As for the whole Browns thing, I'll say this: If the Browns were good and the Indians stunk, I'd still follow the Indians first, so I really can't fault people for rooting for whichever team they want to root for. (I do, though, wish they'd at least be honest about it, that they like the Browns cause, well, just cause, or maybe they're football fans first or whatever; when they try to conconct great philosophical arguments -- i.e., the lerners "want to win more" than the dolans or whatever, well that's a whole other issue)

That said, I do like the tough-love "I know you guys have suffered but get over it" talk, though. It reminds me a little of Kirk Gibson in 88 with the Dodgers changing the whole tone of the club in spring training from Tommy Lasorda practical jokes camp to a team that's serious about winning.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:50 pm

Meanwhile, another shitshow in progress.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:00 pm

Lots of overreactions in here. Trade talk? Seriously?

Accept the fact that Perez is a dumbass and also the league leader in saves.

I thought Cleveland fans had thicker skin than this.
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Re: Perez Rants Again

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:09 pm

It's very possible Rat Tail IS Chris Perez.
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