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Youkah to the White Sox

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Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:47 pm

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:50 pm

White Sox are fielding one hell of a slow-pitch softball team.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Crooked River » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:12 pm

He is a good fit for them, bad for us.

They have a huge hole at 3B. We, OTOH, need to get Chisenhall more ABs moving forward here.

Our GM needs to be hittin' the phones for guys like Dempster or Quentin.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:21 pm

Crooked River wrote:He is a good fit for them, bad for us.

They have a huge hole at 3B. We, OTOH, need to get Chisenhall more ABs moving forward here.

Our GM needs to be hittin' the phones for guys like Dempster or Quentin.


I'd love to have Quentin, but the Pads aren't moving him until their ownership situation is sorted. Their GM said their preference is to sign him, but they can't do that until they have their new owner in place.

Oh, and Dempster is on the DL.

On the subject of Youk, Sox gave up more than I thought it would take to get him but the Red Sox did eat just north of $5.5m of his remaining money.

Youk is an upgrade over Hudson at 3B and probably would've helped us somewhat - unlikely to help us enough to be worth the $2m to pay him - that's likely to be all the money we have to play with for any acquisitions.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:10 pm

Sounds like Dempster will be back in time to set his value before the deadline.

Fri, Jun 22

RHP Ryan Dempster made the trip to Arizona with the Cubs. He went on the disabled list June 18 (retroactive to June 16) with a sore right lat muscle, which he and the Cubs said was not a serious injury. Indications are that Dempster will be activated when his 15 days are up.

(Yahoo! Sports)
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:09 am

I see the PD characterizing this as bad for the Indians . . . . HOW?

I spent seven years reporting. I won awards. I only did sports reporting for one year and I could do a better job drunk off my ass than anyone currently employed by the Plain Dealer is doing sober.

Addendum: What happened to the Smiley that rammed its head against a wall? I really need that one here.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:32 am

justmebd wrote:I see the PD characterizing this as bad for the Indians . . . . HOW?

I spent seven years reporting. I won awards. I only did sports reporting for one year and I could do a better job drunk off my ass than anyone currently employed by the Plain Dealer is doing sober.

Addendum: What happened to the Smiley that rammed its head against a wall? I really need that one here.


Because a shell of Youk at 3B >>>>>>> Orlando Hudson at 3B?
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:35 am

pup wrote:
justmebd wrote:I see the PD characterizing this as bad for the Indians . . . . HOW?

I spent seven years reporting. I won awards. I only did sports reporting for one year and I could do a better job drunk off my ass than anyone currently employed by the Plain Dealer is doing sober.

Addendum: What happened to the Smiley that rammed its head against a wall? I really need that one here.


Because a shell of Youk at 3B >>>>>>> Orlando Hudson at 3B?



Yeah they got an upgrade with even more upside at a low cost. This isn't good for the Tribe. Its not the end of the world but its definitely not good that they traded for him.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:45 am

But it was a gimme that the White Sox and Tigers would be making some deals.
Shouldn't be a surprise, and it doesn't appear to be much of an addition.

Who is the Tribe's competition for RH OFs?
Does Manny and Vlad 'flooding' the market have an impact on availability/terms for players that teams control?
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:53 am

googleeph2 wrote:Who is the Tribe's competition for RH OFs?


I don't think it's a matter of competition. It's that guys like Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano, the guys who are available, would require the Astros and Cubs to cover quite a large amount of money for us to even be in play and I believe both of them have no-trade clauses.

The competition on Quentin is because he's owed a relatively small amount of money compared to the other guys.

It's a buyers market for sure. Add in the second wild card this year and you've got 10/14 AL teams and 9/16 NL teams (with proven teams like Milwaukee and Philly not far behind) within 3 games or less. There are only so many poachable players only 10 or 11 teams. And most of them have issues, monetary, perfomance or otherwise.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Think that makes it a sellers market?
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano......

.......I believe both of them have no-trade clauses.


Soriano has a full no-trade.

I think Lee's is only a partial one though, was full at the start of the deal but only partial now.... I think the teams on his no-trade list are rumored to be "big market" teams. I think it replaces his 10 and 5 rights too. Essentially, he can block trades to big market teams so that he can use the whole "I'll agree to the trade if you give me an extension" line.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:48 pm

I'm fine with not picking up Youkilis, especially at what it would have cost us...nobody special, but depth is depth. When you have so little in the way of trade chips, you don't want to waste any on a non-factor.

Whatever ends up happening, we're going to hear the names Lee and Soriano a lot the next four weeks. Assuming it wouldn't take a king's ransom to get one--and I couldn't see how that would be the case, nor would the Indians do that--I'd be interested in checking it out at least. We're not talking a huge gain, but it would be a step up from the production we're getting now. Aside from Quentin, there's really not much else out there, and we don't even know for sure if he's available...with the Padres' ownership situation in flux, the new guys might probably be open to keeping him.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:10 pm

Nobody is saying it hurts because we did not get him (as far as I can tell). But it makes the team ahead of us (as of right now) better. Which is not a good thing.

Having said that, I would venture to say Youk outperforms 3B of the day for the Tribe going forward. Doesn't mean we should have gone after him with more pressing issues, but I believe whatever trade was made and what ever team he landed on was getting a better player than the one that was suiting up for Boston a majority of this season.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:24 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Think that makes it a sellers market?


On June 25, no. On July 25, maybe.

I think we also have to consider the potential added value on pre-2012 drafted prospects. With the bonus caps now, teams may be more inclined to move major pieces in order to get a high ceiling prospect that they otherwise couldn't afford to sign.

On the flip side of that, teams with high ceiling prospects will be less likely to move them as it will get harder to have depth in your prospect pool because of the bonus caps and having to overpay certain guys and lose out on others.

Just depends on the teams involved and what they think of their prospects and how they project them.

Some of the teams in the hunt also have (varying degrees of) long-suffering fan bases. The Jays, the Orioles, the Pirates, the Reds. They're more inclined to be buyers, even though they probably shouldn't be. That'll make it harder for the Indians to be competitive in trade talks.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:14 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Some of the teams in the hunt also have (varying degrees of) long-suffering fan bases. The Jays, the Orioles, the Pirates, the Reds. They're more inclined to be buyers, even though they probably shouldn't be. That'll make it harder for the Indians to be competitive in trade talks.


What's going to be even harder is the fact that we don't have a whole lot of talent in our system to trade.

Folks thinking about Dempster, just forget about it. The Cubs aren't going to let him go cheaply, especially being a fan favorite and someone they have to convince to waive his no-trade clause.

As much as it saddens me, I don't see Cleveland making an impact trade, both for lack of salary space and available talent in the minors.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:
pup wrote:
justmebd wrote:I see the PD characterizing this as bad for the Indians . . . . HOW?

I spent seven years reporting. I won awards. I only did sports reporting for one year and I could do a better job drunk off my ass than anyone currently employed by the Plain Dealer is doing sober.

Addendum: What happened to the Smiley that rammed its head against a wall? I really need that one here.


Because a shell of Youk at 3B >>>>>>> Orlando Hudson at 3B?



Yeah they got an upgrade with even more upside at a low cost. This isn't good for the Tribe. Its not the end of the world but its definitely not good that they traded for him.

I get that, believe me I do. I'm just not buying it because I don't think it makes THAT big of a difference. Plus, adding Youklis to this team would've just made us worse, so it's addition by not adding anything at all, really.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:51 am

justmebd wrote: Plus, adding Youklis to this team would've just made us worse, so it's addition by not adding anything at all, really.



I dont think it would have made us worse at all. It could only have made us better.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:26 am

WiscTribeFan wrote:What's going to be even harder is the fact that we don't have a whole lot of talent in our system to trade.

Folks thinking about Dempster, just forget about it. The Cubs aren't going to let him go cheaply, especially being a fan favorite and someone they have to convince to waive his no-trade clause.

As much as it saddens me, I don't see Cleveland making an impact trade, both for lack of salary space and available talent in the minors.


Yep, I've brought that point up in the other thread. Seems we've got 3 or 4 different threads on this same topic.

They've got a lot of prospects who can be in minor deals or be added to a deal for a bigger name player, but they don't have a really desirable player that'll get something done for an impact bat/arm.
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Re: Youkah to the White Sox

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:45 am

Looking at how we've played and the schedule over the next month, I have a bad feeling that we'll be 6-7 games off the pace by the time of the deadline and all these questions will be academic.

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