Potential Indians Trade Targets

[skatingtripods]

DKnobler of CBS Sports just Tweeted that Boston intends to trade Youkilis.

[dazindiansfanuk]

DKnobler of CBS Sports just Tweeted that Boston intends to trade Youkilis.

I'd happily take Youk even though his big shiny head does freak me out a little.

Problem is the Sox would probably want pitching in return from the ML roster and we haven't got a lot of it to spare.

[Bayou Tribe]

I know it's all rumors now, but the word is that the Cubs would eat the vast majority of that just to get him out of there. Garza is interesting as well, started out great and has hit the skids as of late. LaHair still looks like a nice piece that could be relatively cheap.

That's why I brought it up. Cubs have said everyone other than Samardzija are on the table. Even Castro.

I knew the author was reading into things a bit much when I first saw that. You don't trade a 22 year old shortstop, you build a team around him.

Are we sure he is a shortstop? Guy has as many errors as he does walks+HR's through 50 games. Close to 30 E's each of the last two seasons as well.

Good stick, no doubt, but if you can get a big haul from someone who still thinks he can be an everyday SS, they may consider.

[skatingtripods]

I'd happily take Youk even though his big shiny head does freak me out a little.

Problem is the Sox would probably want pitching in return from the ML roster and we haven't got a lot of it to spare.

He was pretty good at 3B last year. I wonder if his body would hold up over there. I'd take him too. But you're right, hard to see us matching up well with Boston to complete a trade.

[WiscTribeFan]

Are we sure he is a shortstop? Guy has as many errors as he does walks+HR's through 50 games. Close to 30 E's each of the last two seasons as well.

Good stick, no doubt, but if you can get a big haul from someone who still thinks he can be an everyday SS, they may consider.

His 'problem' is that he gets to balls that a lot of other SS's can't even touch and then tries to make the spectacular throw. The Cubs have been trying to get him to eat more balls that way, with marginal success.

Eventually I could see him moving to 3B, especially as he ages and gets bigger, but for now, I'd keep him at SS, even with the errors. Again, he's only 22 and has hit .300 every season he's played. Sure, he's a free swinger, but it's hard to deny his ability to square up a baseball. Trading him for a couple of prospects that might pan out would be a risky proposition. I think if Rizzo pans out, they'll make a nice pair in the Cubs lineup.

Short of getting 2-3 almost major league ready uber prospects, no way the Cubs deal him.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Michael Cuddyer



RH bat with some pop that can play almost anywhere on the field. Always liked him on the Twins.


Also wouldn't mind Victorino but he went from underrated to overrated last year and would probably cost too much.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Cuddyer or Quentin.

Carlos mashes at the Jake.

[WiscTribeFan]

I think the Cubs would probably pay most of the freight and not expect much back for Soriano. He's owed about $45M on that contract. Get the Cubs to pick up $36-40M and he's actually not a bad pickup for the cost over the next two and half years. He moves to DH next year when Hafner retires.

At this point, he's not a bad option for this team, and would probably be the easiest deal to make with regards of having to give up something of value.

[bookelly]

Bastian mentioned Josh Willingham. I'd like either him or Carlos Quentin. It'd probably take either Donald or Phelps, plus one of the starters like McCallister, Huff or Gomez and a top prospect reliever like Hagadone or Barnes to get it done.

[skatingtripods]

Also wouldn't mind Victorino but he went from underrated to overrated last year and would probably cost too much.

I'm leaning this way too. Versatile, max effort player who can hit at the top or bottom of the order. Curious how he'd adapt to the AL, though.

I can't see Willingham being traded. Twins went out and got him for a reason. Yeah, they're bad, but they knew that they would be.

I don't get the love for Quentin. Guy's hitting, and could continue to, sure...but we could have had him a while ago for a much lower price than what he'd cost now. I wouldn't buy high on him. He's one the few attractive names out there and he's going to cost quite a bit based on how he's playing. In the end, he may come back to the AL and falter.

I honestly believe they're in Carlos Lee territory. If the Astros cover a large enough portion, the Indians will give them a prospect that'll get a deal done. No worse OF than Damon/Duncan. RH stick. Power isn't there yet, but he's still hitting close to .300 in a mediocre lineup.

The Indians aren't going to get a player signed for next year unless they come at a really cheap cost. They want a rental, except for maybe Francoeur.

If they would have wanted Willingham for 3 years, they'd have given him 3 years last offseason. Why would they go get him now at the cost of a prospect?

[bookelly]

Because they realized they really fucked up.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

As of now I think the best bets are Carlos Lee, Soriano, or Youkilis in that order. That changes of course if there are injuries between now and the deadline.


Quentin isnt going to be worth the price tag and neither is Willingham. Somebody will overpay and there is no reason for the tribe to do that for one of those guys.

[Am I Here Again?]

I so don't want Youk in a Tribe uniform. The guy whines about every frickin' pitch he doesn't like...and it seems the only ones he does like are the rare homers he hits. He's old and worn out - may as well get Travis Fryman back. He'd be better!

[googleeph2]

Why isn't Vlad Guerrero on the radar, again?

Before you say because he is old and sucks, I would ask you to put it in the context of "compared to what, exactly?"

Tue, Jun 12

DH Vladimir Guerrero left the Blue Jays Triple-A affiliate in Las Vegas after going 4-for-5 in Monday's win over Tucson because he's ready for an opportunity in the big leagues. The Blue Jays complied with his request for release Tuesday, but it wasn't immediately apparent if Guerrero, 37, had any serious suitors in Major League Baseball. Guerrero told Vegas manager Marty Brown that he was leaving the team but not retiring. Dominican baseball reporter Hector Gomez quoted Guerrero on Twitter as saying "They played with me. Some day they told me something and the other day they told me something else." Guerrero was a nine-time All-Star and the 2004 American League MVP. A career .318 hitter, Guerrero has 449 career home runs but hit only 13 last season with the Orioles. He batted .290 in 2011, giving him 15 straight seasons with an average of .290 or above.

(Yahoo! Sports)

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Can he play the field, is the question? Otherwise we have 2 DHs

[dazindiansfanuk]

Can he play the field, is the question? Otherwise we have 2 DHs

Well, right now, we have none!

When Haf comes back you could always sit him against LHPs and play Vlad..... would greatly limit your bench (if it could get more limited!) if Vlad couldn't play the field though.

[googleeph2]

He did hit a triple the other day. Seems like that should mean something.

[peeker643]

Can he play the field, is the question? Otherwise we have 2 DHs

It tickles me that we, fans of a team with Johnny Damon running around in LF, ask this question

[skatingtripods]

Can he play the field, is the question? Otherwise we have 2 DHs

It tickles me that we, fans of a team with Johnny Damon running around in LF, ask this question

Maybe we can combine the two. Guerrero's arm with Damon's better speed (than Vlad).

We already worked Vladdy out back in March or whenever it was and we left not offering him anything. With a canyon-sized hole in LF. That's how bad Vlad looked to us. Then he got released before even getting to Toronto.

Must not be anything left in the tank.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Can he play the field, is the question? Otherwise we have 2 DHs

It tickles me that we, fans of a team with Johnny Damon running around in LF, ask this question

Yeah but I really cant picture Vlad out there. To me it would be like putting Pronk or Garko out there at this point. I have somehow tricked myself into thinking Damon can at least pretend to play, it makes the pain of LF easier that way.

[British_Pharaoh]

FOX Sports' Jon Paul Morosi reports that the Tigers have interest in acquiring the Padres' Carlos Quentin.
The Blue Jays have also been linked to the San Diego outfielder, and other teams should join the fray as the July 31 trade deadline approaches. Quentin, 29, has registered a fantastic .421/.542/.921 batting line in 12 games this season for the Friars. He's set to become a free agent five days after the 2012 World Series.

Rotoworld

Gotta get in on Quentin quickly.

[pup]

Pass.

Time bomb of injuries. We have enough of those.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Then he got released before even getting to Toronto.

I believed they released him per his request.

[skatingtripods]

Then he got released before even getting to Toronto.

I believed they released him per his request.

You're right. Says that in the little blurb.

Even still, Blue Jays probably told him they had no room for him and he went on a bitch-fest and left. And the Blue Jays are trotting Colby Rasmus and Rajai Davis out every day.

[rigs]

The past offseason, in the "window of opportunity" (pause for laughter), is one of the biggest failures in this front office's tenure. That is saying something profound.

[googleeph2]

Pass.

Time bomb of injuries. We have enough of those.

Whoever trades for him will only be looking for 3 months of him.

And pass, compared to whom instead?

I can't believe any of us nodded at the PD's Lubinger's interview of Shapiro, where he said the Tribe's best baseball is coming. He was at the very least trying to manage down expectations for a trade, esp. for a position player. Pretty discouraging, esp. since the WSox &/or Tigers are going to bolster their teams.

Crap, that really sucks.

[jb]

The past offseason, in the "window of opportunity" (pause for laughter), is one of the biggest failures in this front office's tenure. That is saying something profound.

When did Rigs get back ?!?!



This oughtta lkiven up this place.

[e0y2e3]

The past offseason, in the "window of opportunity" (pause for laughter), is one of the biggest failures in this front office's tenure. That is saying something profound.

When did Rigs get back ?!?!



This oughtta lkiven up this place.

What are you smokin? He shows up everytime a FA tells them to fuck off of a losing streak pops up.

The new Ohio slogan:

[rigs]

Touche...very true!

[swerb]

You know the Indians are on a losing streak when Rigs shows up to spread his venom.

10 years, dude has never posted after a win. EVER.

[e0y2e3]

Rigs has to go back further than 10 years now....

[dazindiansfanuk]

If you wanna get the casual fans back in the ballpark then the As have just granted Manny his release.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Kevin Youkilis Rumors: Thursday
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 21 at 9:05am CST]

Potential suitors for Kevin Youkilis are waiting to see if the Youkilis of old returns, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports. So far this year, the 33-year-old has a .225/.311/.359 batting line, which means he's on track for the lowest batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage of his nine-year career. Here are the latest Youkilis rumors from Boston:

The Red Sox have stepped up their efforts to trade the infielder, and will have to absorb most of his $12MM salary to facilitate a deal, Cafardo writes. However, they want something more than salary relief for Youkilis, a homegrown player who developed into an All-Star.
The Indians are very much involved in talks and talks with the Diamondbacks don’t appear to be dead, Cafardo reports. The Phillies have scouted Youkilis, and the Dodgers could have interest, but the White Sox are more likely to pursue pitching help.

For what its worth.

If the Red Sux absorb most of the salary and the prospect isnt Lindor and a few of the other real top quality ones, I'm for it. His track Record performance wise speaks for itself and he is only 33. The injury thing this year makes me a little tepid and I personally cant stand the guy but I find it hard to believe he is done at 33. I can think of a few guys of his quality over the last couple of years where they started slow and the age/injury question (Hell people even questioned Albert Pujols this year) popped up but then they righted the ship and were still productive like Beltran, Ortiz and then ones that didn't like Jason Bay. Plus he can play multiple positions and has extensive postseason experience.....and he hates the Skankees

Its a gamble but to me one worth taking if the price is right.

[scrambler]

This team has been a blast to follow this year. they have overachieved spectacularly. cousineau's article today is perfect in illustrating the problems with the starting pitching which is by far the biggest issue. That they actually are 36-32 is a testimony to Acta I think without question. Santana and Sipp have been the biggest disappointments for me. A .240 hitting , .350 OBP catcher with power is pretty darn good, but I thought he'd be way, way better as an offensive player. Sipp forgot how to pitch for some reason I can't explain. As bad as the starting pitchers are, they are doing about what I thought. Lowe and Jimenez just aren't good and Gomez is gomez. Masterson has been brilliant his last 3 starts so he may be back as a legit one once again. Cabrera and Kipnis have been really good and Choo is very close to back to pre drunk driving Choo...he is a perfect leadoff hitter, and Brantley has been fine.

I honestly don't really think you can get a good enough starting pitcher to fix what needs fixed. We tried it last year too. Upgrading the offense would be nice, but cousineau highlights what the problem is big time. It ain't offense.

[pup]

This team has been a blast to follow this year. they have overachieved spectacularly. cousineau's article today is perfect in illustrating the problems with the starting pitching which is by far the biggest issue. That they actually are 36-32 is a testimony to Acta I think without question. Santana and Sipp have been the biggest disappointments for me. A .240 hitting , .350 OBP catcher with power is pretty darn good, but I thought he'd be way, way better as an offensive player. Sipp forgot how to pitch for some reason I can't explain. As bad as the starting pitchers are, they are doing about what I thought. Lowe and Jimenez just aren't good and Gomez is gomez. Masterson has been brilliant his last 3 starts so he may be back as a legit one once again. Cabrera and Kipnis have been really good and Choo is very close to back to pre drunk driving Choo...he is a perfect leadoff hitter, and Brantley has been fine.

I honestly don't really think you can get a good enough starting pitcher to fix what needs fixed. We tried it last year too. Upgrading the offense would be nice, but cousineau highlights what the problem is big time. It ain't offense.

You know, it is entirely possible that up to this point the problem has been starting pitching...but going forward the problem is most likely to be offense?

We are trending the wrong way in most categories, going from leading the world in walks by a large margin to having the fewest walks in the AL in June.

RHB for the Tribe have a .226/.302/.318 cumulative slash line.
As a team vs LHP they are .218/.304/.331. 5 wins in 18 games started by a LH.
We are 12-2 in 1 run games. Which is great. But sustainable?
We have been outscored by 31 runs on the year. Only Twins are have been outscored by more in the entier AL.

[Prosecutor]

You know, it is entirely possible that up to this point the problem has been starting pitching...but going forward the problem is most likely to be offense?

We are trending the wrong way in most categories, going from leading the world in walks by a large margin to having the fewest walks in the AL in June.

A lot of that negative walk trend is due to injuries. Hafner and Santana were drawing the most walks by far. Hafner has missed the entire month and Santana missed a chunk of it with the concussion. Hannahan's injuries meant 15 starts for Chisenhall, who drew his first walk of the season yesterday. Pronk's injury meant more PT for Lopez, another free swinger who never saw a pitch he didn't like.

Hafner is about to go on a rehab assignment and could be back before the All-Star break. Damon has been hitting much better in June than in May, which was his spring training month. Hannahan is back. Moving Choo to leadoff and dropping Brantley to 5th or 6th has resulted in better production. If anything I'd say the offense should trend up in the second half.

The 12-2 record in one run games is not sustainable, but given the strength of the back end of the bullpen it's reasonable to think they'll continue to win more close games than they lose.

The 5-13 record against lefties is a big problem. The Tribe's left-handed hitters just need to figure out a way to hit better against lefties. I suggest taking them to left field more often. Kipnis and Brantley might try laying down a bunt now and then. Kip beat one out the other day.

[pup]

Sweet. Hafner is on a rehab assignment. Which means we are getting closer to his next trip to the DL.

And talk about not sustainable? When losing one guy from your lineup takes you from averaging 5 walks/game to 2.5. It isn't like we have drawn a few less walks. We went from drawing a shit ton of walks to hardly ever walking.

Counting on Jack Hannahan to lead the offensive explosion is like counting on e0 to be the sympathetic ear when you are having a rough day. Those other things have been in place for how long? Other than Damon hitting better, there is no boost to be gained. And the Damon improvement has to be weighed versus the chances Mike Brantley has some sort of regression from his hot stretch.

So you got Damon playing better. Santana quitting his bastardness. Captain DL coming back and staying back.

Been over this numerous times. Drawing walks as a bunch of .260 hitters will not continue. Guys will start pounding the zone as the season progresses.

What you have right now is an average offense. Add Hafner and you still have an average offense. They need to add a significant piece that can hit in the middle of the order. I believe that piece can make a significant difference, because the ability to balance this lineup out is a need.

[googleeph2]

If Damon would have been here in March and hit like this, we'd still be pretty concerned.


Agree though- the team has been a blast to follow.

[Prosecutor]

Sweet. Hafner is on a rehab assignment. Which means we are getting closer to his next trip to the DL.

And talk about not sustainable? When losing one guy from your lineup takes you from averaging 5 walks/game to 2.5. It isn't like we have drawn a few less walks. We went from drawing a shit ton of walks to hardly ever walking.

Three guys, not one, pup. Hafner has the highest walk rate on the team; 1 every 4 at-bats. Santana leads the team with 39 walks. Hannahan draws a walk every 9 at-bats; Chisenhall has one walk in 59 at-bats. The simultaneous loss of Hafner, Santana, and Hannahan is what caused the drop in walks. It's not a trend. It's a temporary situation that should return to normal now that Santana and Hannahan are back and Hafner will be back in a couple of weeks.

Counting on Jack Hannahan to lead the offensive explosion is like counting on e0 to be the sympathetic ear when you are having a rough day. Those other things have been in place for how long? Other than Damon hitting better, there is no boost to be gained. And the Damon improvement has to be weighed versus the chances Mike Brantley has some sort of regression from his hot stretch.

Nobody said anything about Hannahan leading any offensive explosions. But he does draw a walk every couple of games, whereas his replacements (Chiz and Lopez) hack away at anything that doesn't look like it will hit the bull.

Brantley is hitting .282. Can he hit .282 for the rest of the year? I don't see why not. Getting him out of the leadoff spot has been beneficial. He was hitting .270 last year when his hamate bone started bothering him.

So you got Damon playing better. Santana quitting his bastardness. Captain DL coming back and staying back.

Been over this numerous times. Drawing walks as a bunch of .260 hitters will not continue. Guys will start pounding the zone as the season progresses.

Santana hit less than .260 last year and still drew a ton of walks. Same thing this year. Same with Hafner. If teams start "pounding the zone" against them in the second half, I think that would be a good thing.

What you have right now is an average offense. Add Hafner and you still have an average offense. They need to add a significant piece that can hit in the middle of the order. I believe that piece can make a significant difference, because the ability to balance this lineup out is a need.

Yes, they're average and they need to balance out the lineup. But if they don't, I see no reason why they won't continue to be average. Damon and Kotchman are hitting better. Santana missed 8 games with the concussion and then went 2-for-23 in his first 6 games back. That's 14 games where Santana got exactly two hits. Since then he's hit safely in 7 of 8 games with 5 walks.

My objection was to your point that the offense is more likely than the pitching to be the problem in the second half. The one piece of evidence you presented is that the team "hardly ever walks" anymore. You said this is a trend. I'm saying it's a temporary situation due to multiple injuries, including injuries to the two players who walk the most. It's not a trend.

This team has no bench. When Hafner, Santana, and Hannahan all go down at the same time it's going to have an impact until they return. I see no reason to think the offense is going to be any worse than it has been. It might even get better since three players who were abysmal in April/May (Damon, Kotchman, and Marson) are progressing to their norms. The players that are hitting well aren't doing anything they haven't already done (Brantley had a 19-game hitting streak), except for Kipnis.

By the way, the Tribe averaged 4.3 runs per game in May and 4.5 so far in June. Even with Hafner, Santana, and Hannahan missing significant chunks of time, the offensive trend is up.

[pup]

Yes, the trend is up. From 4.3 to 4.5. 4.3 with all those guys you are clamoring that their return will help to 4.5 without them. Now they are going to come back and take them all the way up to? Say 4.8? Know what 4.8 runs per game means? You have an average offense. I think they need an above average offense to truly compete.

The pitching staff was the strength before the season. As a whole, they are better than the 13th best staff in the AL. Which is where they currently are. I believe they will pitch better than that going forward. Which is why I am saying the pitching is less of a problem going forward, even though it was more of the problem thus far.

Just an opinion my man.

[googleeph2]

I think that pitching ranking is extremely deceptive. They generally are able to lock down a 7th inning lead.

Would be nice to have more depth (as always), but what team would you trade back ends of the pen with?
The starters don't need to be lock-down; they mainly have to go 5 or 6 before letting a game begin to get out of hand. I really like the staff, which imo is poised to become dominant in the 2nd half. Doesn't mean they will though.

What I want to know is how do you judge Radinsky. Is he doing a good job, and how do you know.

[pup]

I think that pitching ranking is extremely deceptive. They generally are able to lock down a 7th inning lead.

Would be nice to have more depth (as always), but what team would you trade back ends of the pen with?
The starters don't need to be lock-down; they mainly have to go 5 or 6 before letting a game begin to get out of hand. I really like the staff, which imo is poised to become dominant in the 2nd half. Doesn't mean they will though.

What I want to know is how do you judge Radinsky. Is he doing a good job, and how do you know.

Me?

[Prosecutor]

The pitching staff was the strength before the season. As a whole, they are better than the 13th best staff in the AL. Which is where they currently are. I believe they will pitch better than that going forward. Which is why I am saying the pitching is less of a problem going forward, even though it was more of the problem thus far.

Just an opinion my man.

You could be right and I hope you are. I'm not as optimistic as you about the pitching. Looking at some trends:

Gomez ERA

April 2.75
May 5.26
June 6.91

Lowe ERA

April 2.27
May 4.30
June 7.15

I'm really worried about those guys. As the weather has warmed up and we're not playing the Royals, Twins, A's, and Mariners anymore, these guys are really starting to get hit hard. Now we're getting the Yankees, O's, Rays, and Angels in the next month. That will be a good indication of whether the pitching will hold up.

OTOH, Ubaldo has a 2.75 ERA in June, so he's coming on strong, as is Masterson.

It looks like replacing Wheeler and Ascencio's innings with Rogers will improve the team ERA. Maybe Sipp will get his act together and Raffie will come back, although it's taking him forever and they don't sound optimistic. But it's still hard to see the pitching improving that much. The best I can say is that there's no way Gomez and Lowe are as bad as they've pitched this month, whereas Ubaldo and Masterson could continue to pitch well the rest of the season.

[skatingtripods]

Gomez might be as bad as he's been in May/June. I'm not worried about Lowe. He's a veteran guy. He'll watch some tape and see what adjustments he needs to make. He won't hold a sub-4 ERA, but he won't put up another month of a 7+.

McAllister needs to replace Gomez in the rotation. The Indians need a guy who can miss a few bats. McAllister won't be a strikeout pitcher by any means, but he'll regularly punch out 4-7 guys per start. Gomez has punched out 4 or more just twice in 11 starts. Without an out pitch, he'll continue to get beat around.

[googleeph2]

Me?

Sorry, pup, poorly worded. I should have used the word "one" instead of "you", and it was a rhetorical question anyway.

[googleeph2]

Does anyone know exactly what Gomez needs to do to be effective? Keep the ball down? Wondering what I should be looking for.

[Prosecutor]

Does anyone know exactly what Gomez needs to do to be effective? Keep the ball down? Wondering what I should be looking for.

I seem to recall reading in April that his slider has improved since last year, and that was why he pitched so well in spring training and in April. That seems to be the key for him - being able to throw his slider for strikes to keep them from sitting on his fastball.

Here's a quote I found from Manny Acta:

"We were high on him when he first came up two years ago. But everything was depending on his secondary stuff. That slider has really come around. At the end of last season he showed that and in Spring Training. That's been the difference-maker for him -- that slider."
--Indians manager Manny Acta, on starter Jeanmar Gomez

[skatingtripods]

Does anyone know exactly what Gomez needs to do to be effective? Keep the ball down? Wondering what I should be looking for.

He's gotta develop more tilt on the sinker. It has very little movement and not much of it is late.

Guys can lay off the slider because they've either hammered the fastball already or he can't throw the slider for a strike.

Personally, I think he needs to throw his changeup more often. Pitch F/X data:

Pitch/# of pitch/Swings&Misses
Sinker/382/11
Slider/171/23
Changeup/142/18

Part of me kind of hopes he gets rocked today so there's no false hope about him turning into something he isn't. But, if he gets shelled, we're facing a LHP we've never seen, so we'd be screwed.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Indians have been the most serious bidder for Youkilis but the White Sox jumped into the mix yesterday. Dodgers consistent interest.

https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/ ... 4854055939


The funniest thing about this is one of the Twitter replies to this post just reads "Masterson?"

Classic!

[Am I Here Again?]

I don't care where Youk goes, just so long as he doesn't end up in a Tribe uni. He sucks.