Cavs pick #4

[pup]

Can you win in the NBA with a backcourt of Kyrie and Austin Rivers? Because I am really liking that dude.

[e0y2e3]

No, you already have one terrible defender in Kyrie (he'll get to average at best), you can't put a hero shot taking midget that alienates his teammates everywhere he goes next to him.

[e0y2e3]

Beal, if anything will shoot up draft boards as GMs see his ridiculous stroke in person, which is the most beautiful to come out this year and he is really athletic, kid is made to crush workouts and no, typically there is only one or two major movements in the top five of the NBA draft and right now Drummond is already one of the major wild cards.

BTW: if MKG is Prince (a great comp, but Prince was even more raw) and you pass on him over anyone in this draft not named Davis you are a fool. Getting a perfect lock down wing/third scoring option in a draft this raw and weak st the top would be perfect. Only reason he might not go two us Henderson and the draw of pairing T-Rob with Biyombo for MJ... CAUSE WHEN YOU DRAFT A BIYOMBO LEVEL DEFENSIVE ORIENTED FRONT COURT PLAYER YOU NEED A REAL OFFENSIVE PLAYER NEXT TO THEM WITH POTENTIAL TO STRETCH THE GAWD DAMN FLOOR.

Because his O game fuckin' sucks.

Just like TT.

And you don't take those guys lotto unless you are a moron.

They's Frick n Frack, which is why arguing over them becasue one can allegedly dunk is the dumbest series of posts I've ever read from someone with a brain.

No, MKG can penetrate and break defenses down and he is a beast in transition. TT has absolutely zero offensive skills beyond getting stripped three times a game when attempting gimmie dunks. MKG will manufacture points and will put pressure on teams (and he is 18 still).....

MKG will score points in the same way Crash does and if you tell a team they can get a first team all NBA lock-down wing defender that has a career between 15-20 PPG like Prince or Crash (who is a better comp) they'll take them at #2 in the draft every single day.

No to mention that TRISTAN THOMPSON ISN'T EVEN A GOOD DEFENDER.

[e0y2e3]

BTW: as Madre said before, in hindisght Kawhi would have been the best pick at 3 and he was a guy with a raw offensive game and lock-down crazy wing defense skills... in return he's developed a reasonable three this year and bee a pretty damn awesome defender.

Not to mention that MKG has offensive potential and some very visable skills right now, Tristan Thompson has literally none, can't shoot, can't dunk, can't run transition offense like MKG, can't take anyone off the dribble, no post game, and he CAN'T EVEN FUCKING GET TWO CLEAN DUNKS OFF IN A ROW.

[pup]

No, you already have one terrible defender in Kyrie (he'll get to average at best), you can't put a hero shot taking midget that alienates his teammates everywhere he goes next to him.

Not a midget.

And those are the reasons I like him, so there is that. I think they are perfect next to each other. Both can get to the rim, both can shoot, one loves to set, the other spike.

I can almost promise you Austin Rivers has a better career than MKG and/or Beal. Better shooter than MKG. Better on the move than Beal. The rest of that crap is Byron's job and Kyrie's influence.

[jb]

Beal, if anything will shoot up draft boards as GMs see his ridiculous stroke in person, which is the most beautiful to come out this year and he is really athletic, kid is made to crush workouts and no, typically there is only one or two major movements in the top five of the NBA draft and right now Drummond is already one of the major wild cards.

BTW: if MKG is Prince (a great comp, but Prince was even more raw) and you pass on him over anyone in this draft not named Davis you are a fool. Getting a perfect lock down wing/third scoring option in a draft this raw and weak st the top would be perfect. Only reason he might not go two us Henderson and the draw of pairing T-Rob with Biyombo for MJ... CAUSE WHEN YOU DRAFT A BIYOMBO LEVEL DEFENSIVE ORIENTED FRONT COURT PLAYER YOU NEED A REAL OFFENSIVE PLAYER NEXT TO THEM WITH POTENTIAL TO STRETCH THE GAWD DAMN FLOOR.

Because his O game fuckin' sucks.

Just like TT.

And you don't take those guys lotto unless you are a moron.

They's Frick n Frack, which is why arguing over them becasue one can allegedly dunk is the dumbest series of posts I've ever read from someone with a brain.

No, MKG can penetrate and break defenses down and he is a beast in transition. TT has absolutely zero offensive skills beyond getting stripped three times a game when attempting gimmie dunks. MKG will manufacture points and will put pressure on teams (and he is 18 still).....

MKG will score points in the same way Crash does and if you tell a team they can get a first team all NBA lock-down wing defender that has a career between 15-20 PPG like Prince or Crash (who is a better comp) they'll take them at #2 in the draft every single day.

No to mention that TRISTAN THOMPSON ISN'T EVEN A GOOD DEFENDER.

Was talkin' about your boi Bimbo. Not MKG.

[e0y2e3]

No, you already have one terrible defender in Kyrie (he'll get to average at best), you can't put a hero shot taking midget that alienates his teammates everywhere he goes next to him.

Not a midget.

And those are the reasons I like him, so there is that. I think they are perfect next to each other. Both can get to the rim, both can shoot, one loves to set, the other spike.

I can almost promise you Austin Rivers has a better career than MKG and/or Beal. Better shooter than MKG. Better on the move than Beal. The rest of that crap is Byron's job and Kyrie's influence.

Austin Rivers plays zero defense, is a streak shooter and is hated by everyone everwhere that knows him.

He is the exact opposite of MKG and Beal.

And again, a him and Kyrie back-court would be awful.

MKG = a truly elite defender and transition player, Austin Rivers = hero shooter. Tons of guys over the course of careers as raw as MKG has developed more than adequate jumpers.

[e0y2e3]

Was talkin' about your boi Bimbo. Not MKG.

Well that is adorable, talking about the guy who I have qualified as my prefered raw defense oriented big prospect and never once said should have taken him...

It was a shit stew draft, a lot of stupidity ensued, they took the worse prospect of the one-dimensionals.... that's a problem.

[jb]

Was talkin' about your boi Bimbo. Not MKG.

Well that is adorable, talking about the guy who I have qualified as my prefered raw defense oriented big prospect and never once said should have taken him...

It was a shit stew draft, a lot of stupidity ensued, they took the worse prospect of the one-dimensionals.... that's a problem.

Them problem was they reached for a project. Only Vala had the skill set worthy of that.

[pup]

No, you already have one terrible defender in Kyrie (he'll get to average at best), you can't put a hero shot taking midget that alienates his teammates everywhere he goes next to him.

Not a midget.

And those are the reasons I like him, so there is that. I think they are perfect next to each other. Both can get to the rim, both can shoot, one loves to set, the other spike.

I can almost promise you Austin Rivers has a better career than MKG and/or Beal. Better shooter than MKG. Better on the move than Beal. The rest of that crap is Byron's job and Kyrie's influence.

Austin Rivers plays zero defense, is a streak shooter and is hated by everyone everwhere that knows him.

He is the exact opposite of MKG and Beal.

And again, a him and Kyrie back-court would be awful.

MKG = a truly elite defender and transition player, Austin Rivers = hero shooter. Tons of guys over the course of careers as raw as MKG has developed more than adequate jumpers.

You are not the scorer I want if everyone loves you when you take your shots. I want an egomaniac. Like I said, it is Kyrie's job to keep him in check. And a job I think he would love to have.

Who needs perimeter defense when you have Andy and TT in the post?

The game is evolving away from defense. For the betterment of the league. Go get me someone who will fill it up, and has the stones to do it whenever it is needed.

[e0y2e3]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

[rk]

Lloyd tweeted from the combine that Beal said he measured 6'4. That'll help him.

[pup]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

He is a scorer type douchy.

[leadpipe]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

He is a scorer type douchy.

Or "chucker" type douchy.

If scoring is waaay ahead of everything else in a point guard I pass.

[pup]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

He is a scorer type douchy.

Or "chucker" type douchy.

If scoring is waaay ahead of everything else in a point guard I pass.

He isn't the point guard.

[mattvan1]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

He is a scorer type douchy.

Like 'Melo?

[leadpipe]

You are missing it with Rivers, he is spoiled rich kid/pampered athlete douchy, not competitive fire MJ douchy.

He is a scorer type douchy.

Or "chucker" type douchy.

If scoring is waaay ahead of everything else in a point guard I pass.

He isn't the point guard.

He will be for the team that drafts him. Unless it's here.....which is to the point.

And to eo's point, not sure if he won't think he's above a "scoring combo guard" roll, which would probably suit him best.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

FWIW, HoopsWorld has sent Twitter ablaze by reporting that Charlotte wants to deal the #2 along with the Lasagna and Tyrus Thomas albatrosses.

[rk]

FWIW, HoopsWorld has sent Twitter ablaze by reporting that Charlotte wants to deal the #2 along with the Lasagna and Tyrus Thomas albatrosses.

Hmmm...

Not worth it IMHO if we're talking the 4 for the 2. And I can't imagine we're talking about anything else.

[motherscratcher]

FWIW, HoopsWorld has sent Twitter ablaze by reporting that Charlotte wants to deal the #2 along with the Lasagna and Tyrus Thomas albatrosses.

Hmmm...

Not worth it IMHO if we're talking the 4 for the 2. And I can't imagine we're talking about anything else.

I'm not sure how it works, but can't the Cavs just immediately cut them and take a cap hit?

[e0y2e3]

If the Cavs can put Tyrus Thomas and Tristan Thompson on the same team the stars of suck will align into a perfect anomally.

And I used to think Tyrus had potential, since, he is everything Tristan is but with better talent.

And fuck Hoopsworld, the next time they have a scoop on anything will be the first.

[e0y2e3]

Pointless data!

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Barnes had 39.5 inch max vert, had the fastest time in the 3/4 court sprint, showed good lateral quickness & benched 185lbs 15 times

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Darius Johnson Odom had highest max vert at 41.5". Miles Plumlee 40.5. Marquis Teague, Jeff Taylor & Marcus Denmon 40"

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
UNC's John Henson had surprisingly poor numbers. Just a 30" max vert. He's long, but not very explosive.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Yes, Barnes tested better than MKG in every category. MKG was solid, but only dominated just 1 category: 3/4 court sprint.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Andre Drummond showed off great lateral quickness, but max vert was only 33. Miles Plumlee beat him in every category.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Bradley Beal put up very good numbers too. 39 inch max vert. Quick, fast and strong. Very good results.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider
Jared Sullinger was bad in virtually every category. Not unexpected, but still …

Quick! Say something stoopid!

[motherscratcher]

Quick! Say something stoopid!

The Cavs need to trade back and pick up Sullinger. He's from Ohio. He gets it.

[e0y2e3]

You're like the batman of the morons.

[Gradysmanldy]

You're like the batman of the morons.

This is a compliment, right? Better to be the batman of the morons than the Aquaman.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Amick's latest mock. I'll make sure the liquor cabinet is fully stocked in time for the draft.

[Triple-S]

http://deadspin.com/5918141/?utm_campai ... socialflow

re: the fix.

holy shit. Stern was really out of line here.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Ha. Rome deserves all the comeuppance he can ever get. Way out of character for Stern, he sounded more like Popovich there.

[e0y2e3]

Ha. Rome deserves all the comeuppance he can ever get. Way out of character for Stern, he sounded more like Popovich there.

Stern pre-retirement is going to end up one of the greatest spectacles of all time. I'm so jazzed for the "I Really, Really, Really, Don't Give A Fuck" version of Stern.

[rk]

http://deadspin.com/5918141/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

re: the fix.

holy shit. Stern was really out of line here.

Who cares? Rome is a schmuck and he was out of line asking Stern if he fixes the NBA. Stern tried to sound above it by firing off a common example of a loaded question back to Rome and Rome is dumb enough to respond to that.

[OldDawg]

Does anyone think our two 2nd round picks can help us? Crap, our #4 pick from last year can't help us.

Do you package 24 and those two picks together and move up a few spots for a little better quality with our second pick?

I am liking Beal at 4. But if the Cavs take Barnes at 4, I say we move up and try to snag Ross out of Washington or Lamb of UConn for the 2-gd spot.

[Prosecutor]

Does anyone think our two 2nd round picks can help us? Crap, our #4 pick from last year can't help us.

Do you package 24 and those two picks together and move up a few spots for a little better quality with our second pick?

I am liking Beal at 4. But if the Cavs take Barnes at 4, I say we move up and try to snag Ross out of Washington or Lamb of UConn for the 2-gd spot.

That's what I was thinking, but according to Amick's mock we would have to move up to the 13-16 range to get Lamb or Ross, and I just don't see how those second round picks are going to get us there. Is there a team drafting in that range who would be willing to drop 10 spots for the 33 and 34 picks? Not likely. Maybe if we throw in next year's 1st round pick.

I'm more than OK with Barnes and Lamb, but I seriously doubt they could pull it off.

[e0y2e3]

Bradley Beal outplayed Harrison "can't dribble" Barnes at the Cavs workout yesterday, where they made them play one on one.

[motherscratcher]

Bradley Beal outplayed Harrison "can't dribble" Barnes at the Cavs workout yesterday, where they made them play one on one.

I keep reading more and more that Charlotte is on Robinson. Do the Cavs have a better shot at Beal/MKG than you thought a few weeks ago?

And if it happens that way, what are the chances the Cavs take Barnes anyway?

[e0y2e3]

In all reality, T-Rob makes a lot of sense with for the Cats if they draft on need, given that they are sold on Biyombo and need a scoring four next to him and already have a pretty decent wing in Hendu. Their biggest and most glaring hole is PG, which obviously won't be filled. I wouldn't put anything past MJ, but I can see him justifying a slight reach at #2.

And if the Cavs take Barnes over either of them (hell if I know if they will) I am literally going to be happy to never cheer for them again.

[OldDawg]

How common is this "duel" competition where a team brings in two guys to literally go head-to-head. I am not sure if I've heard of it before. And I wonder if some agents don't allow their clients to partake in a one-on-one scenario like this. I mean, one "client" may have more to lose than another in that scenario and wouldn't want to expose their client's weaknesses against the competition.

I am glad the Cavs were able to do it, but a little surprised that they were able to do it.

[Prosecutor]

I suspect that if the Cavs proposed a game of one-on-one and one of them said, "Sure, let's get it on," and the other said, "My agent told me I'm not supposed to do that," then the Cavs decision would be made at that point.

[Gradysmanldy]

Bradley Beal outplayed Harrison "can't dribble" Barnes at the Cavs workout yesterday, where they made them play one on one.

Did you read something about that? I was hoping for some "leaked" eyewitness accounts, but figured the Cavs wouldn't let anything out for fear of compromising potential draft day dealings. (IE, a play to swap with Washington or something unlikely)

I like the concept of the Cavs letting the two of them play it out; different players, to be sure, but Barnes height/athleticism combo SHOULD be enough for him to outclass an "undersized" shooting guard. When it wasn't, should have turned heads in the front office.

[e0y2e3]

I'm pretty sure that Pro Basketball Draft guy (who is fairly useless normally) was actually there. If he wasn't he could be making shit up, but it read to me like an eye witness account.

[Prosecutor]

The PBD quote:

Cleveland hosted a workout between Beal and Barnes today, according to sources Beal really impressed as a shooter while Barnes showed surprising improvement as a ball handler. It is very likely the Cavs decision will come down these two players and the Cavs are not in a rush to make a decision.

Maybe the part about Beal having "outplayed" Barnes is in the really, really small print.

Also, when someone uses the phrase "according to sources" it means he was not an eyewitness. And do you really think the Cavs would invite a member of the press to watch them work these guys out?

[e0y2e3]

Uhm, I was speaking to what he said directly on Twitter.

Stop fucking pretending like you know what quote I am talking about.

[rk]

I suspect that if the Cavs proposed a game of one-on-one and one of them said, "Sure, let's get it on," and the other said, "My agent told me I'm not supposed to do that," then the Cavs decision would be made at that point.

The last I checked players do not play 1on1 in the NBA. If the Cavs were picking 1 and asked Davis and Robinson to play 1on1 and Davis said no I am fairly certain they would still pick Davis.

Also this would not seem to be much of a suprise since someone whose knock is he can not create his own shot played against someone who's attribute is that he can create his own shot. I am willing to bet heavily that the player the Cavs liked before the 1on1 is the same player they like now.

If I'm an agent I don't care if my client plays 1on1 or not so long as I've done my job and made sure he understands that all he needs to do is exhibit skills that help answer questions about his skillset - not just beat the other guy unless of course competitiveness/winning is one of the question marks.

[e0y2e3]

This is what happens when you spend most of your life playing hoops while also being fat....

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/ ... ources-say

[Prosecutor]

Sullinger just needs to get those hamstrings loosened up and he'll be the next...I don't know - Kevin Love?

Or a shorter Mel Turpin.

Cavs get a steal with Sullinger at #33. Hey, wasn't that about where Carlos Boozer was picked?

[peeker643]

I'd be more concerned with Sullinger's height, weight, motor, skills and attitude shortening his NBA career than I would his back.

YMMV

[jb]

Q - Don't NCCAA regulations allow JS to go wanna go back, gotta go back, to Ohio if he doesn't like where he's drafted & didn't sign with an agent?

[dmiles]

I can't remember but what caused Boozer to drop so much?

Can't Sully at least be an off-the-bench PF in a league with some shitty players in that role? I see him in an 8-9 man rotation type team occasionally having those 10-15 pt. type games off the bench. Unless he somehow becomes an Adonis with quicker feet. He's got to be a bargain at some point in this draft. The other question is what style does he fit better? Run and gun where the floor gets more spread? If he can get is butt down the floor I say that is the team he fits better rather than a half-court offense focused team. If he can't take these tall guys one-on-one he's probably going to struggle where there is also a lot of backside help on the blocks.

[e0y2e3]

Sully has an agent, plus they moved the drop dead date for declaring for the draft/going back WAY up this year (NCAA did IIRC) so he's already past it.

And yeah, Sully will be a solid bench player, IMO. The problem is he'll still probably go in the top ten (Redick had a flagged back and got a DUI a week after and still went 11 when he came out).

This draft is just too shitty from 5-15 for him to fall too far.

[rk]

I can't remember but what caused Boozer to drop so much?

Uncurable yeast infection, a tendency to lie to blind men to their face prior to stabbing them in their backs, and he played for Duke.

IIRC.

[pup]

I can't remember but what caused Boozer to drop so much?

Uncurable yeast infection, a tendency to lie to blind men to their face prior to stabbing them in their backs, and he played for Duke.

IIRC.

You googled that didn't you? No way can you hit it that perfectly from memory.