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Cavs pick #4

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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:34 pm

The DraftExpress mock has the Bobcats picking Robinson at #2. If the Bobcats trade down with Cleveland the first three picks could very well be Davis to NO, MKG to the Cavs, and Beal to Washington, leaving Charlotte with Robinson, the same guy they would have taken without the trade. In that case it makes total sense to trade down for whatever they can get, even if it's the Cavs' two second round picks.

This all assumes that the DX mock is correct and Charlotte would take Robinson if they stay at #2. Otherwise it gets more complicated.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:42 pm

Washington is not taking Beal.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:08 pm

rk wrote:In theory it makes sense if they really don't value MKG over Beal or Thompson. Why wouldn't they trade down?


In theory, but that's not Moore's argument. I read it as 'They didn't get KD, so pass on Westbrook and pick up some Hardens and Ibakas.' That's a bad way to build a basketball team, even if the Bobcats are guaranteed lotto next year.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:19 am

Matt Moore is a joke and you all are dumber for reading him.

And only Cavs fans could spend 250,000 words on a fake as draft day trades that have never been a part of the NBA and won't magically work their way in now because you guys like the guy rated #2 overall.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:07 am

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Washington is not taking Beal.




Why? And don't say Jordan Crawford.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:45 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Washington is not taking Beal.


Why? And don't say Jordan Crawford.


I won't say they're not taking Beal, but being 6'11" 275 is going to gloss over a lot of Drummond's shortcomings.

Which is kinda why I'm hoping its Charlotte or Washington who reach for him, because I can already see that sparkle in Chris Grant's eye.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:50 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Washington is not taking Beal.


Why? And don't say Jordan Crawford.


I won't say they're not taking Beal, but being 6'11" 275 is going to gloss over a lot of Drummond's shortcomings.

Which is kinda why I'm hoping its Charlotte or Washington who reach for him, because I can already see that sparkle in Chris Grant's eye.



No.

It is NOT going to happen. One Lasagna Flop in a fans lifetime is once enough.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:05 pm

jb wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Washington is not taking Beal.


Why? And don't say Jordan Crawford.


I won't say they're not taking Beal, but being 6'11" 275 is going to gloss over a lot of Drummond's shortcomings.

Which is kinda why I'm hoping its Charlotte or Washington who reach for him, because I can already see that sparkle in Chris Grant's eye.



No.

It is NOT going to happen. One Lasagna Flop in a fans lifetime is once enough.



John Lambert, Chad Kinch, Tim McCormick, Potapenko, Mihm, Diop, Hickson, TThompson.

Those are some big men/disappointments I can remember as 1st round selections in just my one lifetime.

I therefore dispute your statement that it is NOT going to happen.

The Oakley Pick was sweet though. Nice job getting a ten year big man in Brendan Haywood too.

Wait...

ETA- Chad Kinch seemed big to me. Met him at an Auto show or some shit when I was about 4'10". I just looked him up and he was only 6'4".

Even better was the Cavs taking a stiff like McCormick and trading he and Cliff Robinson for Mel Turpin. Another legendary big man (in so many ways) bust.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:43 pm

The Big 3 are all gone, I take Henson at 4.

Literally.

Yes, TT goes to the bench.....
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:03 pm

Ford had Jeremy Lamb as a wild card for us at 4
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:18 pm

Diop was still getting actual NBA minutes this year in Charlotte.

Not a lot, but it happened.

Somehow that dude parlayed one decent season in Dallas (decent as an off-the-bench shot blocker) into what feels like it has been a lifetime contract.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:11 pm

And you guys shouldn't let crack addicts that clearly never actually watch basketball (let alone college hoops) near the front page.

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/clevelan ... son-barnes

That's some fucking Sam Amico level suck right there. Just wow.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby JJN » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:46 pm

The same goes for Harrison Barnes in relation to MKG. It just seems like he's more engulfed in the game; like he's always under more control on the court.Have you seen how Barnes carries himself during a game? I don't know if it's serious, nervous, focused, or just him being a puritan bad ass; regardless, it's chilling. That and he can also shoot; Gilchrist can't.


This is a toxic level of fucking stupid.

The 20 year old North Carolina product remains one of the more misunderstood prospects in years. Technically, big boards should have him right behind Anthony Davis, but for a variety of mixed, flawed, and biased reasons he’s far from viewed that way.


Bullshit.

His biggest “flaw,” if you can legitimately call it that, is that he failed to live up to the prodigal hype, where everyone had him pegged as the next Kobe Bryant. His shortcomings overshadowed the fact that, not only is he one of the safest picks in this draft, but still probably the most talented and well put together; just as he was coming out of high school two years ago.


His biggest flaw is that he can't dribble a fucking basketball!
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:52 pm

Yeah, and all of that comes after some spewed shit about John Wall that completely ignores him being trapped on the single worst collection of moron athletes in all of pro-sports up until the trade dealine last year (When, magically he started playing well again!!!) and then some real amazing shit about not wanting the #2 pick because Thabeet and Supercool Beas were #2 picks....

I don't know what made me click on that steaming pile of shit, but man that is spectularly bad.

Not to mention the complete and utter blowing of Barnes about "being in control" (I still don't even know what he was talking about with that line) when MKG is pretty much the single best team/man-up defending wing prospect to come through the league in years (but, I guess defense doesn't count because of.....)

Literally that shit is so bad The Bleacher Report might have taken it down to try and save face.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:06 pm

And FWIW: I'm on record just about everywhere that Barnes is a fine pick once Davis/MKG/Beal/T-Rob (haha, nevermind, the Cavs have Tristan Thompson!!!) are all gone. The guy isn't by any measure a complete and utter disaster and the guy will have a role in the league.

But, none of that, makes that sack of shit linked above acceptable.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:46 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And you guys shouldn't let crack addicts that clearly never actually watch basketball (let alone college hoops) near the front page.

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/clevelan ... son-barnes

That's some fucking Sam Amico level suck right there. Just wow.



I read that and was LMAO at the thought of you reading it.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:47 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And FWIW: I'm on record just about everywhere that Barnes is a fine pick once Davis/MKG/Beal/T-Rob (haha, nevermind, the Cavs have Tristan Thompson!!!) are all gone. The guy isn't by any measure a complete and utter disaster and the guy will have a role in the league.

But, none of that, makes that sack of shit linked above acceptable.



<---- Still optimistic that in that order they will take T-Rob and I think he's projects as a better boarder and scorer than you give credit.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:00 pm

jb wrote:No.

It is NOT going to happen. One Lasagna Flop in a fans lifetime is once enough.


I want to believe, but look at the parade of Grant picks: Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Hickson, Skyenga, TT. Athleticism uber alles, actual skills and willpower be damned. If MKG and Beal are off the board at 4, tell me Drummond doesn't fit the pattern better than Robinson, Barnes, or Lamb.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:18 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:No.

It is NOT going to happen. One Lasagna Flop in a fans lifetime is once enough.


I want to believe, but look at the parade of Grant picks: Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Hickson, Skyenga, TT. Athleticism uber alles, actual skills and willpower be damned. If MKG and Beal are off the board at 4, tell me Drummond doesn't fit the pattern better than Robinson, Barnes, or Lamb.



No, no. It was TT's character....
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:19 pm

You should NEVER....N-E-V-E-R take a big man with "Motor, motivation or laziness" problems.

You'd think Mel Turpin and Keith Lee would've taught fans something.

Problem is, there's a lotta really big cats that just don't LOVE basketball.

Which is a problem.

Been big all their life, other people twll them they should play, coaches want them to play, they figure it might lead to some money.....and then they get to the show, and if they haven't loved it before that moment, it ain't happening now.

Talk me into a 6 foot guard with motivation problems, you'll never talk me into a big man.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:31 pm

I don't touch Drummond. Not at 4. There's a chance he's great, but there's a much bigger chance he's only great in contract years. No thanks.

What I fully expect to happen is for Davis, Beal, and MKG to all be gone when we pick, leaving us with the "meh" platter. Though if anyone's going to try to prove he's smarter than anyone else, it's Jordan. I give it about a 25% chance he does something stupid.

If by some chance one of MKG or Beal falls to us, I happily take them. If they both do, I prefer MKG (and I'm 99% sure that's who the Cavs would go with), but if they took Beal instead I'm still a happy camper. I love both of them.

My completely baseless, wild-ass guess as to how the draft shakes out:

Davis, Beal, MKG, Barnes. In that order. I think Jordan wants to prove that he's smarter than everyone else. Instead of gambling on Drummond or taking Robinson, I think he goes with Beal. Just a hunch.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:50 pm

Nicastro13 wrote:Ford had Jeremy Lamb as a wild card for us at 4



I like J. Lamb too, but the dude needs to put on some lbs. at 185 being 6' 5".
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:07 am

Not to pile on the same topic, but Sam Amick from SI.com has a similar piece out today...




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/06/harrison-barnes-2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers/index.html
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:21 am

From what it sounds like, after the top 3, Barnes is as good as anyone the Cavs can pick at #4.

Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:41 am

motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:45 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



If you get prosecutor in this thread, e0y is gonna start murdering people.


Lol, no. Actually, I thought there was a guy (NBA writer or blogger or something) that had the Cavs on TT prior to the draft last year. I can't remember who it was.

Maybe I just remember it wrong.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am

I cleaned up that Barnes piece, I hadn't edited it when it was published. That was my bad guys.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:51 am

Specifically to e0y2e3 and JJN
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:17 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



If you get prosecutor in this thread, e0y is gonna start murdering people.


Lol, no. Actually, I thought there was a guy (NBA writer or blogger or something) that had the Cavs on TT prior to the draft last year. I can't remember who it was.

Maybe I just remember it wrong.


It was Amick (the guy quoted above, who is very connected). He didn't have it until a few days before the draft, but he nailed it.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:45 pm

noahpoinar wrote:I cleaned up that Barnes piece, I hadn't edited it when it was published. That was my bad guys.


I, uh, um, ah, don't think it was an issue of editing.

Just taking a wild stab that maybe it was, uh, perhaps, ah, maybe, kindasorta, um, the opionion that MKG is merely a fatally flawed Tayshawn Prince redux and Harrison Barnes is this rough underrated diamond kept down by Roy?

Just a SWAG.

Keep it coming. Eye is so cute when he's all apoplectic.

Remember, at this time last year Vala was a stay puft marshmallow who wasn't worth a damn. Now in hindsight he's the fatal mistake that will haunt the franchise for a decade.

:hide:

Back to :pop:
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:41 pm

Vala ?
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:44 pm

Jonas Valanciunas. Not sure if that's spelled right, but it's close enough.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:54 pm

Not ending up with one of the two consensus best big's in the draft (Kanter and Vala) isn't the problem, the problem is ending up with a worse version of Tyrus Thomas....
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:15 pm

Read the Amick article. If Beal is sitting there at 4 and they take Barnes anyways, I'm going to send the Miami Cannibal to Chris Grant's house.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:32 pm

Between now and the draft Beal's the frontrunner among guys who could end up slipping way down in the order...perhaps to someone like Golden State. So it wouldn't surprise me if Cavs passed. Doesn't seem possible now but a lot of execs are saying this draft won't look anything like our mocks are saying now.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



If you get prosecutor in this thread, e0y is gonna start murdering people.


Lol, no. Actually, I thought there was a guy (NBA writer or blogger or something) that had the Cavs on TT prior to the draft last year. I can't remember who it was.

Maybe I just remember it wrong.


It was Amick (the guy quoted above, who is very connected). He didn't have it until a few days before the draft, but he nailed it.


Day of the draft.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:16 pm

Beal, if anything will shoot up draft boards as GMs see his ridiculous stroke in person, which is the most beautiful to come out this year and he is really athletic, kid is made to crush workouts and no, typically there is only one or two major movements in the top five of the NBA draft and right now Drummond is already one of the major wild cards.

BTW: if MKG is Prince (a great comp, but Prince was even more raw) and you pass on him over anyone in this draft not named Davis you are a fool. Getting a perfect lock down wing/third scoring option in a draft this raw and weak st the top would be perfect. Only reason he might not go two us Henderson and the draw of pairing T-Rob with Biyombo for MJ... CAUSE WHEN YOU DRAFT A BIYOMBO LEVEL DEFENSIVE ORIENTED FRONT COURT PLAYER YOU NEED A REAL OFFENSIVE PLAYER NEXT TO THEM WITH POTENTIAL TO STRETCH THE GAWD DAMN FLOOR.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:08 pm

Eye, would you trade up to #2 to get MKG?
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:08 pm

I guess I'll counter that by saying what if Harrison Barnes is Paul Pierce? Could be, neither of us have a clue. Because we're talking about prospects and we'll never agree (that's just how these things work) I'll just say that the main reason I like Barnes is because he's often had those signature shooting games where he lights and dumps 25-30 points. You can't say that about a lot of guys in college.

Keep in mind I don't hate MKG, I'd just rather have a pure scorer at that position because their are actually very few of them in the game. Melo, Bron, Durant, Pierce, (Gay and Granger close but not quite)
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:18 pm

Harrison Barnes game is as similar to Paul Pierce, from a skill, performance and talent level as my shitty posting here is to Hemingway. That, sir, immediately makes reading you pointless because it is impossible to believe you have ever watched basketball before. Outside of Barnes and Pierce both having cloudy eyes they are about as far from comparable as anyone outside of Tristan Thompson and Rodman.

That, that is something only someone high as fuck on PCP would even consider muttering.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:23 pm

And please, before you call Barnes a pure scorer go watch him play and then look at the metrics on how fucking bad he is scoring outside of catch and shoot situations... There is two years of track record on him being a glorified jump shooter that can't create off the dribble, is okay from three at best and can't score a damn point without a PG making open looks for him. That is the exact opposite of pure scored and frankly the kid is more interesting as a defensive prospect that can become a third or fourth option than anything.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:29 pm

OldDawg wrote:Eye, would you trade up to #2 to get MKG?


No, because even a truly elite defensive prospect doesn't rank that much higher than Beal's skill set IMO. Davis, all around, MKG defensively and Gordon er Beal scoring (maybe) share the only truly elite skill sets in this draft outside of Drummond getting a brain transplant.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby noahpoinar » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:39 pm

Ha, we could go on and on all day, I'll talk to you after the draft man. Although, there's the slight chance that I just got addicted to this message board stuff.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:34 pm

Naw bro, I'll win this argument with video, stats and scouts.

That said, at least you took a weird ass position and tried to get page hits out of it, better than nothing.

Avoid the message board thing, this board sucks, it just makes me angry about how bad Cleveland Fans are re: hoops until the playoffs come along (like if I want to answer that bald douche Peeks re: Spo it is going to take hours of work).

Do you man, just know when you are spewing bullshit I'll be callin it. If I ever read you re: hoops again (which is doubtful)
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:16 am

Said this the other day about the 18 yr old Beal: kid is sharp. Made 92.3TheFan listenable for 15 minutes.

Kyrie clone in terms of how he comes across and he was easily the best spoken of the people being interviewed AND doing the interviewing.

Very polished. He's not slipping for any personal issues and if his game holds up he's not going outside Top 5. No way.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 am

Bayou Tribe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



If you get prosecutor in this thread, e0y is gonna start murdering people.


I asked a question earlier and nobody ventured to take a stab at it, so I'll try one more time. If, as our murdering friend says, Barnes can't create his own shot, and given that Andy and TT can't create their own shots either (except on offensive put-backs), then is the Cavs' offense viable with a front line of TT, Andy, and Barnes? And who's the shooting guard if the #4 pick is used on Barnes? Boobie? Manny Harris? Gee? The #24 pick?

What's the better starting five - Kyrie/Beal/Gee/TT/Andy or Kyrie/Boobie/Barnes/TT/Andy?

I'm afraid that the second group would only have one play - Kyrie penetrating and dishing off.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:09 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Beal, if anything will shoot up draft boards as GMs see his ridiculous stroke in person, which is the most beautiful to come out this year and he is really athletic, kid is made to crush workouts and no, typically there is only one or two major movements in the top five of the NBA draft and right now Drummond is already one of the major wild cards.

BTW: if MKG is Prince (a great comp, but Prince was even more raw) and you pass on him over anyone in this draft not named Davis you are a fool. Getting a perfect lock down wing/third scoring option in a draft this raw and weak st the top would be perfect. Only reason he might not go two us Henderson and the draw of pairing T-Rob with Biyombo for MJ... CAUSE WHEN YOU DRAFT A BIYOMBO LEVEL DEFENSIVE ORIENTED FRONT COURT PLAYER YOU NEED A REAL OFFENSIVE PLAYER NEXT TO THEM WITH POTENTIAL TO STRETCH THE GAWD DAMN FLOOR.



Because his O game fuckin' sucks.

Just like TT.

And you don't take those guys lotto unless you are a moron.

They's Frick n Frack, which is why arguing over them becasue one can allegedly dunk is the dumbest series of posts I've ever read from someone with a brain.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:11 am

noahpoinar wrote:I guess I'll counter that by saying what if Harrison Barnes is Paul Pierce?



maybe another edit will clean that up. :thumb up:
Last edited by jb on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:13 am

e0y2e3 wrote: it just makes me angry



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Re: Cavs pick #4

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:15 am

Prosecutor wrote:
Bayou Tribe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who is the guy that had the Cavs on TT before the draft last year? What does that guy have to say?



If you get prosecutor in this thread, e0y is gonna start murdering people.


I asked a question earlier and nobody ventured to take a stab at it, so I'll try one more time. If, as our murdering friend says, Barnes can't create his own shot, and given that Andy and TT can't create their own shots either (except on offensive put-backs), then is the Cavs' offense viable with a front line of TT, Andy, and Barnes? And who's the shooting guard if the #4 pick is used on Barnes? Boobie? Manny Harris? Gee? The #24 pick?

What's the better starting five - Kyrie/Beal/Gee/TT/Andy or Kyrie/Boobie/Barnes/TT/Andy?

I'm afraid that the second group would only have one play - Kyrie penetrating and dishing off.



Start picking you place on E9th to watch the parade, man!
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