Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:58 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Dont really have a negative or positive thought on the pick, if that is who they thought was the best player then they should take him, However I would have went with Giolito.....who now goes to Washington.


Might as well go ahead and give him Tommy John surgery now so they can get it out of the way.


Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.
Alex White: Just like School on Sunday......No Class.
User avatar
Dnthateonthepronk
 
Posts: 1823
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Favorite Player: Dan Marino
Least Favorite Player: Alex Rodriguez

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:59 pm

National guys on twitter like Callis, Law, and Goldstein all seemed surprised but none of them seemed to hate it.

Callis (I think)* made the point that he will probably be under slot so they might be saving a little money for the later rounds or something.

Either way, all signs point to him being a really good hitter with a good arm. Not much power right now, though.

Edit* - It was Lastoria that said that
Last edited by motherscratcher on Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:00 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.


The Indians appear to be drafting for depth. They want a balanced top 10 rounds. Giolito doesn't allow them to do that; costs too much to sign. They want to get 8-10 picks they like and hope 2 or 3 pan out.

Not disagreeing with your point, and they probably take Giolito without the bonus money caps, but they're looking at the bigger picture in the draft.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Jumbo » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:01 pm

Given that all that I know about Naquin is the few minutes they talked about him and the few seconds of video...a got kind of a Jacoby Ellsbury vibe.

Hitting only 3 home runs in college isn't amazing, but raw power numbers in college don't necessarily impress me. It looks like he get a good number of doubles and triples, FWIW.

http://www.collegesplits.com/cgi-bin/csPlayer.cgi?pl=naquity42
User avatar
Jumbo
Chowderhead
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 pm
Favorite Player: is not Buster Posey
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:04 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Hey man, the only way the Indians are going to get potential high ceiling impact SP is in the Draft. I believe in drafting on Talent/ceiling and sometimes you need to take chances.


The Indians appear to be drafting for depth. They want a balanced top 10 rounds. Giolito doesn't allow them to do that; costs too much to sign. They want to get 8-10 picks they like and hope 2 or 3 pan out.

Not disagreeing with your point, and they probably take Giolito without the bonus money caps, but they're looking at the bigger picture in the draft.


Without bonus money caps I wonder if he's even still on the board?

I wonder how different this whole draft would look.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Jumbo » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:06 pm

Going underslot on round one (especially if it's somebody they like anyway) to go a little overslot on rounds two and three? If they figured out a way to twist the draft rules in their favor, then great for them.
User avatar
Jumbo
Chowderhead
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 pm
Favorite Player: is not Buster Posey
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:27 pm

Shocked I tell ya. You mean the Indians took a low upside, high floor, LH hitting player with limited power for RF and questionable speed for CF?

Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Pabo » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:35 pm

pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.
Bottom 4th: Cleveland
- J. Kipnis grounded out to shortstop
- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
User avatar
Pabo
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: Weirton, WV, USA
Favorite Player: Jason Giambi
Least Favorite Player: Joe Haden

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:42 pm

We'd all be better guessing our method of death than projecting these kids to the major leagues when they have at least four levels to climb and you won't know for 3-6 years.

And before people spend too much time complaining about the new draft/slot rules it should be noted that it was small market owners who asked for the rules.

I guess it's easier to put more money in your bank if you don't have to get crazy signing a Boras kid in RD 1.

John Hart liked the Naquin selection, fwiw.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:42 pm

Pabo wrote:
pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.


Or maybe the next Ichiro Suzuki.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:45 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Pabo wrote:
pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.


Or maybe the next Ichiro Suzuki.


Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:50 pm

peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Pabo wrote:
pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.


Or maybe the next Ichiro Suzuki.


Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.

Slap hitting corner outfielder with questionable power who will hit for average, strikeout seldom, and walk less...who has a cannon for an arm

We just drafted future HOFer Ichiro Suzuki I tell ya.

Mark it dude.

Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:51 pm

Besides, comping him to Michael Brantley just depresses the hell out of me.

I see no reason not to reach for the stars.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:55 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Pabo wrote:
pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.


Or maybe the next Ichiro Suzuki.


Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.

Slap hitting corner outfielder with questionable power who will hit for average, strikeout seldom, and walk less...who has a cannon for an arm

We just drafted future HOFer Ichiro Suzuki I tell ya.

Mark it dude.

Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.


You know what? I say bring him up tonight and let him play CF tomorrow night in place of the entitled 'low ceiling' tool currently giving mediocre effort out there now.

I remember a time not all that long ago when I was saying the ball coming off Trevor Crowe's bat in Lake County made a different sound than other guys. And yeah, it was after he put down the aluminum bat so it wasn't that. I'd have noticed.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Pabo wrote:
pup wrote:
Maybe we just landed our #8 hitter of the future!


Or maybe we just landed the next Beau Mills.


Or maybe the next Ichiro Suzuki.


Of all the comps you could possibly make you're gonna go with a Japanese guy who was 30 when he got here?

You're the Beau Mills of message board posters.

I wish you didn't amuse me. Then I could quit you.

Slap hitting corner outfielder with questionable power who will hit for average, strikeout seldom, and walk less...who has a cannon for an arm

We just drafted future HOFer Ichiro Suzuki I tell ya.

Mark it dude.

Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.


You know what? I say bring him up tonight and let him play CF tomorrow night in place of the entitled 'low ceiling' tool currently giving mediocre effort out there now.

I remember a time not all that long ago when I was saying the ball coming off Trevor Crowe's bat in Lake County made a different sound than other guys. And yeah, it was after he put down the aluminum bat so it wasn't that. I'd have noticed.


Actually Crowe was the first guy I thought of when they drafted him. And that's much more depressing than Brantley.

So, I'm sticking with Ichiro.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:00 pm

I can't think of where else to put this so I'll just park it right here, if'n you don't mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wHHPStULCPA
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:01 pm

Crowe is alot more solidly put together. What should be reassuring is Crowe was a product of aluminum bats that were a lot jumpier back in the day. Dude had a .1220 OPS as a senior. Have to imagine guys are a lot more projectable with the bats deadened to preserve life.

From Baseball America (http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra ... er-naquin/)

With the 15th-overall pick, the Indians passed on college righthanders to take Texas A&M outfielder Tyler Naquin.

Naquin is the best pure hitter in this year's class, with a lefthanded swing that has evoked comparisons to Will Clark. He has a line drive approach and goes to the opposite field with authority. Naquin is a plus runner, though it isn't clear how well he'll be able to handle center field since he mostly played right field for the Aggies.

Naquin doesn't project to hit for a lot of home run power, but should hit plenty of doubles and has the best arm strength in this year's draft.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:05 pm

Another (former) Baseball America scout (and current SI correspondent) had Naquin going 19th in his mock:

19: St. Louis Cardinals -- Tyler Naquin, OF, Texas A&M
Naquin shines in both tools and sabermetric evaluations. He has a quick, opposite field oriented bat and a cannon arm, plus he records a high on-base percentage.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/b ... z1wseKN886
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:25 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Frankly, I don't know how the hell he was still available knowing everything I've learned about him in the last 5 minutes.



:lmfao:
Alex White: Just like School on Sunday......No Class.
User avatar
Dnthateonthepronk
 
Posts: 1823
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Favorite Player: Dan Marino
Least Favorite Player: Alex Rodriguez

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:51 pm

Just finished my writeup on him. Bottom line, if they sign him for under slot and he makes the transition to CF, it's a good pick. Smarter people than me think he can do that, so hopefully they're right. He has a 70 arm, 55 speed, 50 hit tool and about 30 power. The hit tool could end up as a 60, which would make him an ideal 2/3 hitter. His swing is a little long, mainly because he starts with a narrow base and high hands, but that's something that can be tweaked. He played RF in college because A&M has one of the fastest kids in all of college baseball in CF, not because he can't play CF. His speed is not questionable, it's plus. He stole 21 bases in 26 attempts, and hit leadoff for A&M some of the time.

The pick caught me off guard, but it's not as bad as I was originally afraid of. Will be interesting to see what they do in the rest of the top 10. I would have preferred Shaffer, but I'm not sure Shaffer can stay at 3B. Antonetti and co know a lot more than I do about these guys (obviously) and have seen them a lot more than I have, and in my opinion they've earned the benefit of the doubt with their draft record the past several years.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:54 pm

Like I said upthread, or was trying to say, save your money on the top pick so you can grab guys in the lower rounds and sign them. Glad the Tribe brass reads these boards. Keep up the good work Chris.
Nobody, I mean nobody, voluntarily becomes a Cleveland sports fan.

"This team could fuck up a ham sandwich." -CDT
User avatar
bookelly
Happy Easter!!
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:58 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Favorite Player: My bunny hunny
Least Favorite Player: Elmer Fudd

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:55 pm

Not sure what to think about this pick. I was really counting on one of those college arms like Wacha being available, or better yet, a right-handed hitter with power like Shaffer or Piscotty--I was really intrigued by those guys and hoping we'd land one. I'm not sure what's going on with the Naquin pick. He's got some interesting attributes, but just as many drawbacks. I hate it if it's one of those dreaded "signable" picks, but maybe there's something special they're seeing in him. Given that the drafts under Grant have been pretty good, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now. I just hope they know what they're doing.
User avatar
Adverb Harry
 
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:30 pm
Location: Souvenir City
Favorite Player: Jason Kipnis
Least Favorite Player: Ubaldo, Bud Selig

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby andrew6586 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:55 pm

I've checked a few sites and they all say the same thing: the pick was a shock but still a good pick. All the prognosticators support the pick. Go Tribe.
Once a fan, always a fan.
On Twitter @apac6586
User avatar
andrew6586
Church of Asdrubal
 
Posts: 1222
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio
Favorite Player: Kenny Lofton
Least Favorite Player: Mark Shapiro

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby andrew6586 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:57 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Not sure what to think about this pick. I was really counting on one of those college arms like Wacha being available, or better yet, a right-handed hitter with power like Shaffer or Piscotty--I was really intrigued by those guys and hoping we'd land one. I'm not sure what's going on with the Naquin pick. He's got some interesting attributes, but just as many drawbacks. I hate it if it's one of those dreaded "signable" picks, but maybe there's something special they're seeing in him. Given that the drafts under Grant have been pretty good, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now. I just hope they know what they're doing.

I agree with everything you just said... Except the part about Grant. Wrong sport ;-) ;) :wink:
Once a fan, always a fan.
On Twitter @apac6586
User avatar
andrew6586
Church of Asdrubal
 
Posts: 1222
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio
Favorite Player: Kenny Lofton
Least Favorite Player: Mark Shapiro

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:28 am

The Indians farm system is very short on quality OF prospects. Sizemore is toast, they have nothing in left field, Choo is on borrowed time after having employed Boras as his agent, and Brantley looks like the only guy who's here for the long term. I preferred a right-handed power bat, but I'm really happy the first pick was an OF.

What they didn't need was another projected relief pitcher, or another Adam Miller or Jason Knapp.
Prosecutor
Plutonian Outliers
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:59 am

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:50 am

peeker643 wrote:We'd all be better guessing our method of death than projecting these kids to the major leagues when they have at least four levels to climb and you won't know for 3-6 years.


With Naquin as a 21 year old and nobody blocking him in the system...I've got a feeling we'll know if he's a hit or a bust in 3 years, tops.

(Unless you're just talking generally, since yeah, HSers can take up to 6 years.)
User avatar
Jumbo
Chowderhead
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 pm
Favorite Player: is not Buster Posey
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:36 am

Prosecutor wrote:The Indians farm system is very short on quality OF prospects. Sizemore is toast, they have nothing in left field, Choo is on borrowed time after having employed Boras as his agent, and Brantley looks like the only guy who's here for the long term. I preferred a right-handed power bat, but I'm really happy the first pick was an OF.

What they didn't need was another projected relief pitcher, or another Adam Miller or Jason Knapp.


And it still is today.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby dpdad » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:56 am

With Naquin as a 21 year old and nobody blocking him in the system...I've got a feeling we'll know if he's a hit or a bust in 3 years, tops.

I hope it's sooner than that. My fear is that the Indians will keep this kid in the minors as long as possible to avoid starting his free agency clock. Bring him to spring training with the parent club next spring and give him a shot. Can't be much worse than Damon, Duncan, Brantley, etc.

It has driven me crazy for years that the Indians keep talented kids (Sexson, Giles, etc.) in the minors longer than necessary, while continuing to acquire mediocre players for the big-league club. If the kid's good enough, he's old enough.
dpdad
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:42 am
Location: Independence, Ohio

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:58 am

I'm hearing a lot of the same knocks on this kid as Chisenhall when he was drafted. Nice lefthanded swing, won't hit for enough power etc. And he's being called a "tweener" the same way Kipnis was.

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume he can play CF. If he can play CF, his offensive profile is just fine. If he signs quickly and for less than slot, even better because they can then shift that money elsewhere in the top 10.

Like it or not, the Indians have had pretty good drafts the past few years. They have some really smart front office people who have been studying the new CBA since it came out, looking at how to best allocate their now forcibly limited resources. Until yesterday, I'd wager that no one on these boards had seen Naquin take a swing at a baseball. The Indians obviously extensively scouted him, both in person and breaking down tape. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt with this pick, and until proven otherwise I'm going to trust that he was the right pick.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:19 pm

gotribe31 wrote:Like it or not, the Indians have had pretty good drafts the past few years.


I agree - because of this, they do get the benefit of the doubt on this pick, as opposed to, say, Beau Mills. It'll be interesting to see where they start him (short season vs. Lake County), and if he comes in playing CF. How long is L_Wash supposed to be out, anyway?

Time to see what happens in round 2.
User avatar
Jumbo
Chowderhead
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 pm
Favorite Player: is not Buster Posey
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:21 pm

gotribe31 wrote:Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume he can play CF. If he can play CF, his offensive profile is just fine.


More about read than speed. Bill James got a number for that?

You're welcome Pup.
This natural coozy comes free with every Miller Time
Image
User avatar
Erie Warrior
Goose Slayer
 
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Hampton, VA
Favorite Player: 1995 Indians
Least Favorite Player: Global Warming

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:47 pm

2nd Round Selection:

Mitch Brown Rochester Century HS, MN RHP

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:48 pm

Yay! A top of the lineup outfielder!

Boo. He's pretty much a punch and july hitter power-wise.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:01 pm

pup wrote:2nd Round Selection:

Mitch Brown Rochester Century HS, MN RHP

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.


Like the pick. A lot. He's got a good frame at 6'2", 210lbs. Law had him ranked #45 overall, BA had him at #44 overall. From Law:

He'll sit 89-94 and has touched 95 late in outings this spring, and he has one of the better prep curveballs in the draft this year, with tight rotation and big, mostly vertical, break. He also throws a cutter in the upper 80s in lieu of a changeup, much as Dylan Bundy tended to do last year.

His delivery is very easy and simple, clean in back with a good finish out over his front side, and since he offers little physical projection his only real developmental need is reps to improve his command and control, and perhaps to develop a changeup.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:23 pm

3rd Round Selection:

Kieran Lovegrove, RHP, Mission Viejo, CA


This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:24 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:2nd Round Selection:

Mitch Brown Rochester Century HS, MN RHP

It's not uncommon for players who play in colder climates to be late risers as scouts get to see them as the weather changes. That definitely has been the case for Brown this spring. While not the biggest guy in the world, he is strong and durably built. He also has a good idea of what he's doing on the mound. The right-hander can run his fastball up to 94 mph. He can spin a breaking ball pretty well, throws a good cutter and even shows a feel for the changeup. That gives him the chance to have four Major League average or well above offerings in the future. While Brown can struggle with his overall command at times, it's not a long-term concern. There was little doubt he was the best player in the state of Minnesota as the Draft approached, one who was creeping up higher on Draft boards.


Like the pick. A lot. He's got a good frame at 6'2", 210lbs. Law had him ranked #45 overall, BA had him at #44 overall. From Law:

He'll sit 89-94 and has touched 95 late in outings this spring, and he has one of the better prep curveballs in the draft this year, with tight rotation and big, mostly vertical, break. He also throws a cutter in the upper 80s in lieu of a changeup, much as Dylan Bundy tended to do last year.

His delivery is very easy and simple, clean in back with a good finish out over his front side, and since he offers little physical projection his only real developmental need is reps to improve his command and control, and perhaps to develop a changeup.


Agreed from what I have read today. Was hoping the kid ETA: Chris Beck that went a couple spots in front of us was going to be there.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:30 pm

pup wrote:3rd Round Selection:

Kieran Lovegrove, RHP, Mission Viejo, CA


This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.


#131 by BA, not in Law's top 100.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:33 pm

pup wrote:3rd Round Selection:

Kieran Lovegrove, RHP, Mission Viejo, CA


This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.


He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:43 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:3rd Round Selection:

Kieran Lovegrove, RHP, Mission Viejo, CA


This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.


He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.


Not sure why an organization that is being killed by Fausto and Ubaldo over the last couple of years wants to make a run at smoothing out some mechanics?

Over/Under on TJ Surgery is July 2013.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:48 pm

pup wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:3rd Round Selection:

Kieran Lovegrove, RHP, Mission Viejo, CA


This SoCal right-hander has great upside but has been inconsistent throughout his career. His delivery has a short stride and relies mostly on arm action, but he is able to consistently throw his fastball from 90-94 mph. His slider, although inconsistent, has a chance to be a strikeout pitch. His changeup has the chance to be an average pitch but can help complement his fastball and slider if they aren't being commanded well. Lovegrove also has the ability to add muscle to his lean frame, which could mean added velocity. A team that thinks that it could smooth out his mechanics will take a chance on him and could end up getting great value.


He can attend the side sessions that Ubaldo is attending. Works out perfectly.


Not sure why an organization that is being killed by Fausto and Ubaldo over the last couple of years wants to make a run at smoothing out some mechanics?

Over/Under on TJ Surgery is July 2013.


It's a 3rd round pick. If it doesn't work out, no big deal. If it does, they got a steal. Would you rather they drafted a "polished" college arm, a strikethrowing, soft tossing lefty with limited ceiling but a better chance to be a bullpen arm? Everyone (myself included) wants them to draft for upside, take some chances, get some toolsy high schoolers, not draft safe. So when they do that, we bitch. Just because Fausto and Ubaldo are too dumb/stubborn to alter their mechanics at the big league level, it means that the entire Indians developmental staff is incompetent and unable to tweak a high school pitchers delivery?
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:08 pm

Wow.

Third round picks are throw aways these days? Gonna make the next 40 of em pretty nondescript. Maybe we are still saving $$$ to grab that over slot guy in the 8th though, so it makes sense.

Pretty sure in the Ubaldo thread I made my point about changing a guys mechanics. They say smooth, I say change. Maybe this guy is only a hip turn or knee bend or something small that would not be a big deal, but for someone to place it in his scouting report my thought would be it is something with either extension/slot/follow through. Those are major obstacles that lead to more surgeries than wins, so I would avoid them whether we had Fausto/Ubaldo or not.

And I never asked for high upside, or this, or that, or anything as far as the draft goes. I ask they get guys that have the best shot at playing downtown someday, and if they pick someone that appears to have built in obstacles, I will say it. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he is 18 or 24.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:12 pm

Could be the guy they were saving money for to keep him away from school?

D'Vone McClure, OF, Jackson, AR 6'3" 190

An outstanding athlete who played football in high school but then gave up the gridiron to focus on the diamond and take a baseball scholarship to Arkansas. If he gets drafted as early as it seems he might, he may never be a Razorback. McClure has some tools, particularly with a bat in his hands. He has excellent bat speed and should grow into plenty of power as he matures. Whether he stays in center field remains to be seen, but he could have enough bat to profile just fine at an outfield corner spot.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:18 pm

pup wrote:Wow.

Third round picks are throw aways these days? Gonna make the next 40 of em pretty nondescript. Maybe we are still saving $$$ to grab that over slot guy in the 8th though, so it makes sense.

Pretty sure in the Ubaldo thread I made my point about changing a guys mechanics. They say smooth, I say change. Maybe this guy is only a hip turn or knee bend or something small that would not be a big deal, but for someone to place it in his scouting report my thought would be it is something with either extension/slot/follow through. Those are major obstacles that lead to more surgeries than wins, so I would avoid them whether we had Fausto/Ubaldo or not.

And I never asked for high upside, or this, or that, or anything as far as the draft goes. I ask they get guys that have the best shot at playing downtown someday, and if they pick someone that appears to have built in obstacles, I will say it. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if he is 18 or 24.


Like it says in the writeup, it's a short stride that causes him to use too much of his arm and not enough of his lower half. That's not a minor change, but it's not breaking down an guy and starting from scratch either. If he can already touch 95 without using his legs, he can be reasonably expected to pick up a little velo if they can get him engaging his lower half. And the point about the age is that he's not as ingrained into his mechanical flaws as an Ubaldo, Fausto or even a college arm because he's younger and hasn't been doing it the wrong way as long as someone older than him. It's easier to fix high school mechanical flaws than college or professional, I'm sure you'll agree. Comparing this kid to Ubaldo is just silly.

Trevor Crowe and Jeremy Sowers had great shots at playing downtown when they were drafted, and both did. How did that work out? This kid has a better shot of actually being relevant to a winning team. For where they took him, he could be a potential steal. Even if it doesn't work out, I completely understand the philosiphy that caused them to take him and can't fault them for it.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm

How were Fausto's mechanics in Lake County?

Short strider? Change that TJ date to September 2012.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12019
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:29 pm

Another high schooler in the 4th round, 6'3", 190lb OF D'Vone McLure. BA #91, Law #93. They really are going boom or bust in this part of the draft. From Law:

McClure is an excellent athlete with one of the best bodies in the draft, but he's extremely raw across the board and is likely a long-term player development project for a team willing to wait five years to see a real return on its investment. McClure looks good in the uniform with a trim waist, wide shoulders and good flexibility; he's an above-average runner and has arm strength but doesn't always get his front foot down in time to throw accurately, similar to Domonic Brown when he was first coming up with the Phillies.

At the plate, he has bat speed and pretty good hand-eye coordination, but his recognition is poor and he swings and misses too often at the high school level. He lands with his front foot turned out and doesn't have great loft in his swing. He's in center now but likely ends up in a corner in pro ball. He's a great upside play in the third-round range, but very high-risk as well.



EDIT to add link to video: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic ... d=21699939
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:02 pm

I've not been following the draft that intently but, reading the reports, it looks like the Indians went pretty high ceiling/high risk on day 2.

Looks like the pick of Naquin was designed to save a few $$ for some of these HS guys that are likely to be tougher signs
User avatar
dazindiansfanuk
Tyner Is God
 
Posts: 8982
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 am
Location: Cardiff, UK
Favorite Player: Jhonny Peralta
Least Favorite Player: Curt Schilling

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:26 pm

Indians just drafted Tom Hamilton's kid in the 35th round.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:01 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Indians just drafted Tom Hamilton's kid in the 35th round.


This is purely a Tommy Lasorda/Mike Piazza situation right?
Bring the NHL to C-Town.
User avatar
TouchEmAllTime
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:43 pm
Location: Boardman
Favorite Player: James Haslam
Least Favorite Player: 2013 #1 Pick

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:26 pm

TouchEmAllTime wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Indians just drafted Tom Hamilton's kid in the 35th round.


This is purely a Tommy Lasorda/Mike Piazza situation right?


So you're saying Hamilton's kid is a future HOF'er? ;-) ;) :wink:
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves
-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts.
-----Lars
User avatar
gotribe31
 
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Favorite Player: Francisco Lindor
Least Favorite Player: Michigan

Re: MLB 2012 Amateur Draft

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:39 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
TouchEmAllTime wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Indians just drafted Tom Hamilton's kid in the 35th round.


This is purely a Tommy Lasorda/Mike Piazza situation right?


So you're saying Hamilton's kid is a future HOF'er? ;-) ;) :wink:


Haha, exactly! Although most of the athletes coming out of Kent these days haven't been too shabby professionally. In all seriousness, that's a pretty cool gesture by the Tribe.
Bring the NHL to C-Town.
User avatar
TouchEmAllTime
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:43 pm
Location: Boardman
Favorite Player: James Haslam
Least Favorite Player: 2013 #1 Pick

PreviousNext

Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests