If Greg Little doesn't become a can't cover WR....then what?

[Hikohadon]

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

Let me ignore the most horrific hyperbole I've ever seen on this site in your last sentence and focus on a fundamental problem I have with the othr part of the paragraph.

Who drafted Colt?

Who made the mistake of spending a relatively valuable pick on a weak-armed midget with a stage daddy who you say can't benefit from the three best receivers in the game?

The experts, right? The ones I can't question or complain about suddenly, right? They drafted Colt and they probably shoulda known about his arm and his height and his old man, no?

They drafted Colt. They signed Jake Delhomme and paid him maybe the most ridiculous $25m ever paid out in the NFL. They brought in a backup like Seneca Wallace who refuses to be a mentor to young QBs, yes?

And I'm expected to believe that they got it right with Weeden and did so at 22? And I suppose I should believe the fact he's almost 30 will preclude him from having to learn the league and take his lumps for the next two years to the point when he's headed toward 32 or so, he may be the right guy, right?

You see nothing at all in any of this that limits my faith and confidence in the same assholes who gave you all of the above suddently swinging it 180 the other way Thursday night when they took a guy at 22 that wasn't on their 1st round board?

Y'all can receive it warmly. I'm an eye-rolling, head shaking, lol-ing motherfucking disbelever right now.

Keep the 'Gotta Have Faith or Ya Got Nothing at All' shit on this one.

I have hope. Very little, but I have hope.

That's not faith. And anyone that has it needs to look at themselves and ask why the fuck they do if you ask me.

Goddamn. If wives and girlfriends treated ya like this front office does you'd wake up and walk, no? You wouldn't let them keep walking all over ya like we do. How many times she gonna fuck your friend and say she won't again?

I don't get it.

Oh my God.

Useless fucking blathering.

Fine - the Browns are a bad girlfriend. Everyone bitches about their girlfriend sometimes just to get some shit off their chest, but if someone finds themselves doing it constantly, the best advice is Leave the bitch.

It's like Ohio winter. You think we all don't hate the winter? You think we all don't hate the gray skies and the wind chill and the black snow piles and the salt-encrusted cars as much as you do unless we let you know over and over again - just in case you forget?

Did I ever ask you to have faith? No. Did I ever tell you that their moves were all good, that they were beyond questioning? Hell no.

Mike Holmgren has certainly made some mistakes and deserves some of the criticism he's receiving. Sound familiar?

When did you fuckin' lose it that not covering myself in retrospective self-pity - about a situation that none of us have the power to do anything about - is somehow blind support? Seems like just a week ago that you understood this. Rehashing mistakes repeatedly like we don't all know them, grasping onto hearsay (like what someone claims was the Browns draft board) as if it were fact, seemingly proclaiming everyone instant-busts b/c of who picked them... The draft broke you.

[Hikohadon]

Now tell me why I should believe they got this Weeden thing right again?

You don't have to believe it. Would it make a damn bit of difference if you did? He's your starting QB this year. The Browns could care less about how you feel about it. As they should.

And some more hyperbole for ya... make Colt the starting QB on the best team in the league, and that team doesn't sniff even the Conference championship. He's TJ fucking Yates. I don't care who picked him or where he got picked or what his weapons are, if you don't recognize that at the very least Weeden is a big upgrade potential-wise, conversation is useless.

Just b/c picking Colt was a huge mistake that they made doesn't mean they shouldn't try to fix it.

[jb]

Peekwr I think your cynicism is partially well founded. But I can watch a Brandon Weeden and see talent. Kid has a howitzer on his shoulder and for the most part played the position very well. This isn't some Tony Banks bullshit my brotha. He's a legit prospect. He's not Shrimpy McColty. Guarantees nothing, but you are minimizing Weeden as a prospect. Get past the age thing. He gives us 6 good seasons and I am damn fine. Weeden is a really solid QB prospect. I don't care whether the pick is made by Heckert, Homgren, Sammy Baugh, Tex Schram or Richard Simmons.

[JCoz]

Christ on a friggin pony with the Colt was a horrible mistake crap...for fucks sake its really his accuracy that has hurt him being successful in the NFL, something unanticipated. As a 2nd-3rd tier QB project it was a a solid pick IMO, just didn't work out, some of the best looking prospects dont work out as well.

There wasn't a goddamn thing wrong with the Colt pick. I think they 100% intended for him to A)not play that year and B)draft another QB the next season to compete with him or start. I'd love to take a trip down memory lane to see just how horrible people were saying the pick was at the end of 2010.

I can absolutely get on board with the Delhomme being a god-awful decision though. It was that decision that ultimately led to Colt getting on the field and presenting people with fools gold.

[peeker643]

Peekwr I think your cynicism is partially well founded. But I can watch a Brandon Weeden and see talent. Kid has a howitzer on his shoulder and for the most part played the position very well. This isn't some Tony Banks bullshit my brotha. He's a legit prospect. He's not Shrimpy McColty. Guarantees nothing, but you are minimizing Weeden as a prospect. Get past the age thing. He gives us 6 good seasons and I am damn fine. Weeden is a really solid QB prospect. I don't care whether the pick is made by Heckert, Homgren, Sammy Baugh, Tex Schram or Richard Simmons.

I'm there. No choice at the end of the day and there are things to like. I grant you that much.

[jb]

Peekwr I think your cynicism is partially well founded. But I can watch a Brandon Weeden and see talent. Kid has a howitzer on his shoulder and for the most part played the position very well. This isn't some Tony Banks bullshit my brotha. He's a legit prospect. He's not Shrimpy McColty. Guarantees nothing, but you are minimizing Weeden as a prospect. Get past the age thing. He gives us 6 good seasons and I am damn fine. Weeden is a really solid QB prospect. I don't care whether the pick is made by Heckert, Homgren, Sammy Baugh, Tex Schram or Richard Simmons.

I'm there. No choice at the end of the day and there are things to like. I grant you that much.

Plus Benz hated the draft. That's a good omen. ;-)

[peeker643]

I know dude. It's always useless blathering when you disagree with it.

You find every reasoning, rationale and justification to believe and are willing to whine about anyone who who asks what QB decision they've made that should inspire any confidence that they got this one right at the end of the day. You don't actually answer the question, you just bitch that it's asked.

By all means, take that approach. Question the question. Complain about the people complaining. Question the questioner. Especially when the actual answers don't help the position you're espousing.

And by all means, continue to press forward with the dogma and intimate that anyone complaining about the selection and disagreeing with it is wallowing in self-pity and is broken.

It is funny if nothing else.

Saddens me we've hit a fork in the road.

And I like winter. That means hunting season and it's also the season when, one year, H&H will lead us to the promised land while riding the arm of one of their QB choices.

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

Let me ignore the most horrific hyperbole I've ever seen on this site in your last sentence and focus on a fundamental problem I have with the othr part of the paragraph.

Who drafted Colt?

Who made the mistake of spending a relatively valuable pick on a weak-armed midget with a stage daddy who you say can't benefit from the three best receivers in the game?

The experts, right? The ones I can't question or complain about suddenly, right? They drafted Colt and they probably shoulda known about his arm and his height and his old man, no?

They drafted Colt. They signed Jake Delhomme and paid him maybe the most ridiculous $25m ever paid out in the NFL. They brought in a backup like Seneca Wallace who refuses to be a mentor to young QBs, yes?

And I'm expected to believe that they got it right with Weeden and did so at 22? And I suppose I should believe the fact he's almost 30 will preclude him from having to learn the league and take his lumps for the next two years to the point when he's headed toward 32 or so, he may be the right guy, right?

You see nothing at all in any of this that limits my faith and confidence in the same assholes who gave you all of the above suddently swinging it 180 the other way Thursday night when they took a guy at 22 that wasn't on their 1st round board?

Y'all can receive it warmly. I'm an eye-rolling, head shaking, lol-ing motherfucking disbelever right now.

Keep the 'Gotta Have Faith or Ya Got Nothing at All' shit on this one.

I have hope. Very little, but I have hope.

That's not faith. And anyone that has it needs to look at themselves and ask why the fuck they do if you ask me.

Goddamn. If wives and girlfriends treated ya like this front office does you'd wake up and walk, no? You wouldn't let them keep walking all over ya like we do. How many times she gonna fuck your friend and say she won't again?

I don't get it.

Oh my God.

Useless fucking blathering.

Fine - the Browns are a bad girlfriend. Everyone bitches about their girlfriend sometimes just to get some shit off their chest, but if someone finds themselves doing it constantly, the best advice is Leave the bitch.

It's like Ohio winter. You think we all don't hate the winter? You think we all don't hate the gray skies and the wind chill and the black snow piles and the salt-encrusted cars as much as you do unless we let you know over and over again - just in case you forget?

Did I ever ask you to have faith? No. Did I ever tell you that their moves were all good, that they were beyond questioning? Hell no.

Mike Holmgren has certainly made some mistakes and deserves some of the criticism he's receiving. Sound familiar?

When did you fuckin' lose it that not covering myself in retrospective self-pity - about a situation that none of us have the power to do anything about - is somehow blind support? Seems like just a week ago that you understood this. Rehashing mistakes repeatedly like we don't all know them, grasping onto hearsay (like what someone claims was the Browns draft board) as if it were fact, seemingly proclaiming everyone instant-busts b/c of who picked them... The draft broke you.

[peeker643]

Peekwr I think your cynicism is partially well founded. But I can watch a Brandon Weeden and see talent. Kid has a howitzer on his shoulder and for the most part played the position very well. This isn't some Tony Banks bullshit my brotha. He's a legit prospect. He's not Shrimpy McColty. Guarantees nothing, but you are minimizing Weeden as a prospect. Get past the age thing. He gives us 6 good seasons and I am damn fine. Weeden is a really solid QB prospect. I don't care whether the pick is made by Heckert, Homgren, Sammy Baugh, Tex Schram or Richard Simmons.

I'm there. No choice at the end of the day and there are things to like. I grant you that much.

Plus Benz hated the draft. That's a good omen. ;-)

Yeah. But he hates everything every year. And that hasn't helped thus far.

[JCoz]

Peekwr I think your cynicism is partially well founded. But I can watch a Brandon Weeden and see talent. Kid has a howitzer on his shoulder and for the most part played the position very well. This isn't some Tony Banks bullshit my brotha. He's a legit prospect. He's not Shrimpy McColty. Guarantees nothing, but you are minimizing Weeden as a prospect. Get past the age thing. He gives us 6 good seasons and I am damn fine. Weeden is a really solid QB prospect. I don't care whether the pick is made by Heckert, Homgren, Sammy Baugh, Tex Schram or Richard Simmons.

I'm there. No choice at the end of the day and there are things to like. I grant you that much.

Plus Benz hated the draft. That's a good omen. ;-)

Yeah. But he hates everything every year. And that hasn't helped thus far.

This^^^

[Prosecutor]

Delhomme wasn't a huge mistake. He was brought in to be a placeholder until they found the Guy. It had to be somebody - they didn't want to start a rookie. Wallace was brought in as injury insurance. Who knew they would both get hurt and McCoy would have to play as a rookie?

Yeah, they paid Delhomme too much. Big deal, it's not our money and they were still under the cap.

McCoy was the 21st pick of the 3rd round. The other QBs in that draft were Sam Bradford (#1 overall), Tim Tebow (mid-1st round) and Jimmy Clausen (mid-2nd round). McCoy was the 4th QB picked. Outside of Bradford, an abysmal year for QBs.

So the Browns signed the best available vet as a placeholder, signed a career backup familiar with the offense, and took a late 3rd round flyer on McCoy. Looking at the players drafted after McCoy in the 3rd round and early 4th I didn't recognize any big names. I hardly think they should be crucified for how they handled the QB situation in 2010 and I don't think any of that proves them incompetent.

The Hardesty trade-up however....

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Who drafted Colt?

The same guys who inherited a team that had Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn as option 1A and 1B at quarterback.

The same guys who went after Bradford, and when they got laughed at didn't bother aiming for Tebow or Claussen.

The same guys who used a mid-third on McCoy with obvious high expectations, because look at all the other good QBs that came in the mid-third or later.

The same guys who after they knew they couldn't get $Cam didn't bother with Locker or Gabbert.

The same guys who went almost balls to the wall after RGIII.

McCoy was drafted with the premise that if he worked out hooray great, if not oh well we'll draft another QB. Holmgren's admitted that much. At the very least, McCoy was still ahead of DA or Quinn.

[jb]

Delhomme wasn't a huge mistake.

The Hardesty trade-up however....

Jake was a disaster his last year at Carolina. Signing him for a penny was an awful decision.

And Hardesty was a beat his last year at UT. Had he stayed healthy he would have been a very good addition.

Might want to stick to hoops where you know whet you are talking about.

[JCoz]

Delhomme wasn't a huge mistake.

The Hardesty trade-up however....

Jake was a disaster his last year at Carolina. Signing him for a penny was an awful decision.

And Hardesty was a beat his last year at UT. Had he stayed healthy he would have been a very good addition.

Might want to stick to hoops where you know whet you are talking about.

I dissagree on Hardesty. I always despised that pick, the trade up really compounded that cringeworthy selection too. As a CFB fan, I seriously have no idea why any Browns fan was ever excited about that guy. Had he worked out I think it would have been a shock to many a CFB fan, not that the NFL doesn't work like that sometimes. Injury-prone and known for some key fumbles, dude never had the goods IYAM. I rarely outwardly hate a player selection but that was one of those.

[jb]

Delhomme wasn't a huge mistake.

The Hardesty trade-up however....

Jake was a disaster his last year at Carolina. Signing him for a penny was an awful decision.

And Hardesty was a beat his last year at UT. Had he stayed healthy he would have been a very good addition.

Might want to stick to hoops where you know whet you are talking about.

I dissagree on Hardesty. I always despised that pick, the trade up really compounded that cringeworthy selection too. As a CFB fan, I seriously have no idea why any Browns fan was ever excited about that guy.

Wasn't merely among the top SEC rushing leaders like Ingram and Tate or something minor like that? 6 225 4.4 speed? Channelling TMLP's kid on draft lotto night.

I love one cut and go RB's. North & south. Hardesty was a solid prospect and well worth a 2 pick.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57298&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB

[peeker643]

At the risk of useless blathering and for last time, H&H (mostly Big H though) has given us at the QB position:

A broke dick veteran who was useless and done before he got here. And he paid him more than $20M.

A complete and total asshole/buddy of Big H who decided his job as a backup was not to help the starter and who fucking stinks in his own right given he couldn't beat out the dead guy or the weak armed runt ahead of him.

That weak armed runt whose stage dad forbade JR. to return to the NCG. I don't give a fuck when the Big H took him. You telling me a 3rd round flyer on a weak armed, shorty with silver spoon issues is justifiable there or in any other round? Did he shrink or lose arm strength from the time they evaluated hm til now?

I know it's crazy to look at the current choice with ANY look back at past choices, but haters just do stupid, irrational, emotional shit like wondering if those fuckups might indicate there are some issues.

Forgive the useless reiteration. It clearly means I'm happy with the current situation and not that I think they should have passed on the position this season and fixed it when they weren't doing so with their 3rd or 4th choice.

Go Browns.

[jb]

At the risk of useless blathering and for last time, H&H (mostly Big H though) has given us at the QB position:

A broke dick veteran who was useless and done before he got here. And he paid him more than $20M.

A complete and total asshole/buddy of Big H who decided his job as a backup was not to help the starter and who fucking stinks in his own right given he couldn't beat out the dead guy or the weak armed runt ahead of him.

That weak armed runt whose stage dad forbade JR. to return to the NCG. I don't give a fuck when the Big H took him. You telling me a 3rd round flyer on a weak armed, shorty with silver spoon issues is justifiable there or in any other round? Did he shrink or lose arm strength from the time they evaluated hm til now?

I know it's crazy to look at the current choice with ANY look back at past choices, but haters just do stupid, irrational, emotional shit like wondering if those fuckups might indicate there are some issues.

Forgive the useless reiteration. It clearly means I'm happy with the current situation and not that I think they should have passed on the position this season and fixed it when they weren't doing so with their 3rd or 4th choice.

Go Browns.

Can both statements be true?

The track record on QBs here with this bunch is no better than they've been since Butch Davis arrived?

Weeden is a really solid prospect who has a chance to be very good and solve the ongoing issues at the position?

[JCoz]

Wasn't merely among the top SEC rushing leaders like Ingram and Tate or something minor like that? 6 225 4.4 speed? Channelling TMLP's kid on draft lotto night.

I love one cut and go RB's. North & south. Hardesty was a solid prospect and well worth a 2 pick.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57298&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB

He was a guy whose play was far less than the sum of his measurables.

This is a decent summary of his abilities and then you need to add in fumbles and injury historyhttp://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/profiles/montario-hardesty?id=497178

Compared to the potential of 2nd round RB picks the last 10 years he was never 2nd round worthy IMO

[peeker643]

At the risk of useless blathering and for last time, H&H (mostly Big H though) has given us at the QB position:

A broke dick veteran who was useless and done before he got here. And he paid him more than $20M.

A complete and total asshole/buddy of Big H who decided his job as a backup was not to help the starter and who fucking stinks in his own right given he couldn't beat out the dead guy or the weak armed runt ahead of him.

That weak armed runt whose stage dad forbade JR. to return to the NCG. I don't give a fuck when the Big H took him. You telling me a 3rd round flyer on a weak armed, shorty with silver spoon issues is justifiable there or in any other round? Did he shrink or lose arm strength from the time they evaluated hm til now?

I know it's crazy to look at the current choice with ANY look back at past choices, but haters just do stupid, irrational, emotional shit like wondering if those fuckups might indicate there are some issues.

Forgive the useless reiteration. It clearly means I'm happy with the current situation and not that I think they should have passed on the position this season and fixed it when they weren't doing so with their 3rd or 4th choice.

Go Browns.

Can both statements be true?

The track record on QBs here with this bunch is no better than they've been since Butch Davis arrived?

Weeden is a really solid prospect who has a chance to be very good and solve the ongoing issues at the position?

Yes. Absolutely both can be true.

And I like Weeden or some of what I've seen of him. Whole point when all this started is my belief that past fuckups caused them to pay excessive interest on first couple picks. Still think that's case.

But now that it's done and over, is what it is and hopefully they got this one right. And, as many have stated, I don't ultimately care the pprice they paid if they were right and if they get quality guys at each spot on the field.

But if I tell you those past fuck ups don't make very skeptical I'd be lying.

[Hikohadon]

I know dude. It's always useless blathering when you disagree with it.

You find every reasoning, rationale and justification to believe and are willing to whine about anyone who who asks what QB decision they've made that should inspire any confidence that they got this one right at the end of the day. You don't actually answer the question, you just bitch that it's asked.

By all means, take that approach. Question the question. Complain about the people complaining. Question the questioner. Especially when the actual answers don't help the position you're espousing.

And by all means, continue to press forward with the dogma and intimate that anyone complaining about the selection and disagreeing with it is wallowing in self-pity and is broken.

It is funny if nothing else.

Saddens me we've hit a fork in the road.

And I like winter. That means hunting season and it's also the season when, one year, H&H will lead us to the promised land while riding the arm of one of their QB choices.

What you do not seem to be getting is that I do not disagree with you.

You have every right to ask unanswerable questions. But you're making it seem like you're asking new and important questions when they're questions that most everyone has asked themselves for a while now.

Questions like "Why should we trust these guys?" has no answer that results in anything. Why should we trust these guys? We shouldn't. Which changes nothing. It doesn't matter if we trust them or not. Not one thing in the universe will change.

PS - I like winter too. But I know plenty of people that choose to live here that hate it and let me know about it all the time.

[Hikohadon]

At the risk of useless blathering and for last time, H&H (mostly Big H though) has given us at the QB position:

A broke dick veteran who was useless and done before he got here. And he paid him more than $20M.

A complete and total asshole/buddy of Big H who decided his job as a backup was not to help the starter and who fucking stinks in his own right given he couldn't beat out the dead guy or the weak armed runt ahead of him.

That weak armed runt whose stage dad forbade JR. to return to the NCG. I don't give a fuck when the Big H took him. You telling me a 3rd round flyer on a weak armed, shorty with silver spoon issues is justifiable there or in any other round? Did he shrink or lose arm strength from the time they evaluated hm til now?

I know it's crazy to look at the current choice with ANY look back at past choices, but haters just do stupid, irrational, emotional shit like wondering if those fuckups might indicate there are some issues.

Forgive the useless reiteration. It clearly means I'm happy with the current situation and not that I think they should have passed on the position this season and fixed it when they weren't doing so with their 3rd or 4th choice.

Go Browns.

I too am skeptical that any pick made by any regime here will ever be great. That is the Browns fan condition. That doesn't keep me from "trying" to look at it objectively.

Objectively, Delhomme was a mess right from the beginning. I know they thought they were bringing him in to mentor Colt - but that shows logic problems on both the front that Jake would be a good placeholder and that a rookie late 3rd round pick was earmarked for the starting job. In other words, in 2010, they completely ignored the QB question. Fail.

Seneca was brought in to be a backup that knew the system that they knew they would be eventually going to (making one further flabbergasted that they kept Mangini on for a year, but I've made that point a million times). He is fine in that role. Some people are pissed that after Jake - the guy who was SUPPOSED to mentor Colt - left, Seneca got thrust into the role of "mentoring" a guy who was given the starting job over him, a guy he probably considered an inferior QB. So he's a bit of a pouter when it comes to helping his fellow QB's, but he's fine as a backup QB, his initial role when brought here.

Colt fell to the end of the 3rd round for a reason. Who knows how far he would've fallen had the Browns not been there to catch him? Kellen Moore is basically the same dude and went undrafted. I think a lot of people liked the pick there because of name recognition and Colt's college resume. But guys with his skill set rarely become starters in this league, and the fact that they kind of earmarked him to start right from the beginning was a highly questionable move. Is the 3rd too high to pick a career backup QB? I think it is.

Many people feel that Weeden would've been a Top 10 pick had he been 23, but the age factor plays huge in a lot of people's minds. Myself, if the guy can play 6 or 7 years at a high level, don't give a damn about it. He's a big guy that is a great passer of the ball. Unlike Jake, Colt, and Seneca, there is finally a guy at QB that has the physical stature and tools to be an upper-echelon QB.

Will he be? Don't know. He ran a stupid shotgun offense in the Big 12, where every QB puts up big numbers. Who knows how he'll handle all the mental barriers coming his way?

And, yeah, it's likely they could've gotten him at 37. I don't know if that was Holmgren forcing his hand (like he did with Colt) or if the Browns truly had him rated at #13 overall like they said they did (which could be just as false as the hearsay that they had him ranked in the 2nd round or they were planning on taking Wright).

None of which matters now.

It doesn't matter if we trust them or if they picked Weeden in the 1st round or 2nd round or where they truly had him ranked or if they reached or if Holmgren pulled the strings. That's semantics, fodder for debate should Weeden succeed/fail and nothing more.

How Weeden does is based solely on the offensive scheme, the talent around him, and his own performance. Who picked him and the history of the other guys they picked is absolutely meaningless. Millen was a terrible GM that picked bad WR's year after year... except the year he accidentally took Calvin Johnson.

Maybe a lot of this has to do with the fact that I really liked Weeden's game coming out of college and considered him the 3rd best QB in a draft where the top 2 were HOF potential dudes. But even if a (what I feel will be a) trainwreck like Tannehill got picked at 4, I'd be forced to admit that he's not without a skill set and there is a chance he could be really good.

To find out, there's little I can do but wait and watch.

[peeker643]

^^^^^

Let's never fight again...

[Hikohadon]

I must say (and please don't mistake this for faith or blind support) that I haven't been this excited/interested for the start of this year's Training Camp to see how the rookies look since I don't know when.

Weeden hands the ball to Richardson who runs by a Schwartz block, all while Heckert chews off his fingernails and Holmgren takes a nap.

[Gradysmanldy]

Agreed, Hiko. This is the first year i've actually looked to see when minicamps are, and may actually watch a few of Gro-errr, MKC's stupid videos just to get a peek of how the cubs are shaking out. Might even watch preseason games 1-3.

Many people feel that Weeden would've been a Top 10 pick had he been 23, but the age factor plays huge in a lot of people's minds. Myself, if the guy can play 6 or 7 years at a high level, don't give a damn about it. He's a big guy that is a great passer of the ball. Unlike Jake, Colt, and Seneca, there is finally a guy at QB that has the physical stature and tools to be an upper-echelon QB.

I'll take this one further. If we get more than THREE GODDAMN YEARS of high level production out of a first round pick that doesn't play on the O-line, i'll be tickled pink.....and it will be the first time we've seen it since the return. The bar for 1st round picks has been set so low that people wouldn't even trip over it.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Anyone interested in Jacoby Jones?

[pup]

Anyone interested in Jacoby Jones?

Very.

[motherscratcher]

Why didn't you use the big picture, Pup?

[peeker643]

Why didn't you use the big picture, Pup?

Is that one of those acne ads where half the face is treated and the other half isn't?

Because I only got the giant sized untreated pic.

Will Pup publish the other one too? God, I sure hope so.

Hope it helped that chick.

I can't pin a topic and Pud can't post a fucking picture.

All kinds of moderated awesomeness here.

Did I say "Pud" up there? Sorry. I meant "Pud".

[Prosecutor]

The Browns were smart to take Richardson and Schwartz, knowing they would be starting a rookie at QB. With a strong running game and a solid OL, he has a chance to be successful right off the bat. Tim Couch should have been so lucky.

It looks like they put some thought into the first three picks and how they would complement each other as opposed to just taking the three best players regardless of position. By so doing they opened themselves up to some criticism for trading up (Richardson), reaching (Weeden), and not drafting a WR in the first two rounds (Schwartz). But it looks to me like they thought it through and had a plan, and then executed the plan even if it meant paying full price to make sure they got the guys they targeted. Which they failed to do in the RG3 case.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I suppose you could argue that they screwed up by signing Delhomme, but they had to sign somebody. Quinn had been traded for a late round pick and a third string RB. DA was gone. Mangini had been given one more year and management wasn't going to force him to start a rookie at QB. I don't recall what other experienced veteran free agent QB's were out there, but it doesn't matter. They were looking for a placeholder. Delhomme actually looked good in preseason and in the first half of the first game until he messed up his ankle when Joe Thomas got beat on the backside. Signing him didn't work out, but I don't consider it an epic screwup.

[peeker643]

The Browns were smart to take Richardson and Schwartz, knowing they would be starting a rookie at QB. With a strong running game and a solid OL, he has a chance to be successful right off the bat. Tim Couch should have been so lucky.

It looks like they put some thought into the first three picks and how they would complement each other as opposed to just taking the three best players regardless of position. By so doing they opened themselves up to some criticism for trading up (Richardson), reaching (Weeden), and not drafting a WR in the first two rounds (Schwartz). But it looks to me like they thought it through and had a plan, and then executed the plan even if it meant paying full price to make sure they got the guys they targeted. Which they failed to do in the RG3 case.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I suppose you could argue that they screwed up by signing Delhomme, but they had to sign somebody. Quinn had been traded for a late round pick and a third string RB. DA was gone. Mangini had been given one more year and management wasn't going to force him to start a rookie at QB. I don't recall what other experienced veteran free agent QB's were out there, but it doesn't matter. They were looking for a placeholder. Delhomme actually looked good in preseason and in the first half of the first game until he messed up his ankle when Joe Thomas got beat on the backside. Signing him didn't work out, but I don't consider it an epic screwup.

Neither does his accountant or his golf pro.

It was a terrific gesture to not only keep Mangini but to give him Delhomme. No one could have foreseen the complete collapse of Jake's career and Mangini's chances under Holmgren.

It came as a complete shock to everyone here. Especially after Carolina fought so hard to keep him after his stellar season before coming to Cleveland.

Like with the John Hughes pick, if you stun the guy you're picking or signing with the high pick or the amount of years and money you're offering, you done fucked up.

[Gradysmanldy]

I don't recall what other experienced veteran free agent QB's were out there, but it doesn't matter because none of them were coming here anyway.

Fixed it.