If Greg Little doesn't become a can't cover WR....then what?

[jta1975]

I know you guys have heard my gripes about the WR position so don't think I am just ranting, I want good conversation on what the fans expect this WR group will do to carry their fair share of the offense.

I picked the Browns to draft Little and they did so without a doubt I am a fan of Little and his talent but what is the consensus on what he will be this year? How good will Little be?

Are the Browns really expecting him to be a "can't" cover WR in his second year in the league because if he is not how can we expect Cleveland to be able to have a good passing game.

We sat back as they talked up the group last year and when the season came they were all outclassed by a rookie who didn't play football for a year and was only in his second full season playing the position.

Do you expect Mohamed Massaquoi to both stay healthy and turn into a playmaker? How about Carlton Mitchell, is this the year he actually steps on the field? Is Jordan Norwood the missing link?

There is no veteran presence, no one other than Little has a 40 catch season. Honestly what are your takes about what to expect from the passing game? Was Weeden and Richardson the two keys to the passing game? If not what move would you make to increase the talent?

The draft is over, is this going to be the WR core for the 2012 season?

[bookelly]

They signed the #2 WR out of OkSU and Weeden's close buddy to a FA contract. Little, and he will be 1 and 2, with the speedy drafted guy in the slot. Norwood is yer 3rd down guy and Cribbs and MoMass are the 4/5. IMHO - they still need a true #1, but with TRich this may do...

Damn, when I drink I write like SD.

[JCoz]

For this year I'm hoping for improvements to come from less dropped passes, more time from better protection, and a little extra space borne from a healthy respect of richardson since he's clearly the number 1 offensive threat. Lastly I expect a more diverse offense from having chilly here. No I'm not a huge fan, but anything has to be better than what Paddy gave them to work with last season.

Honestly this is really going to ride on whether Weeden can be an immediate improvement over Colt. I think the above factors improve the passing game on their own, if Weeden is also marked improvement then I can see a much better offense. I have watched alot of football the last 20 years, and I have seen worse WR cores be part of very effective offenses, but you need more imaginative plays and creative play calling, and you need better QB play. But even with marginally better QB play, if we get those improvements I said first then we are going to get better in the passing game IMO.

[leadpipe]

Well, the draft has only so many rounds, and so many players.

The problem isn't necessarily ignoring the receiver issue, the problem was need damn near every GD position on the field.

Bill Walsh was a fan of getting the receivers last. Perhaps Holmie buys into this.

Anyway, my problem with this years draft, especially early, was that it appeared to be done without understanding they are more than one draft away. I would assume if things proceed as planned, and these players work out for the most part, next year's draft will be receiver heavy.

[jta1975]

Good points so far and catching the ball will help.....I understand you can't get it all in the draft but they should know that too.

Management should not have put themselves in that predicament and that is part of Peeker's argument. Not addressing the WR position at all during free agency was a mistake. They didn't have to go after Vincent Jackson but they came away with bagels and put themselves in a bind.

They should have improved the group a little at least. Now we are down to Mark Clayton, Patrick Crayton or some other team's castoff.

I will admit if Green Bay cuts dies with Donald Driver I wouldn't mind paying a vet for some OJT for the WR group in this offense but I am pretty sure Driver wouldn't want to come to Cleveland over any team that had a legit shot at a championship.

I understand the guy is ancient, I wouldn't be paying for production. I would be paying for all the other stuff he would bring.....minus the dancing.

[jta1975]

Oh yeah and there is some real nice WRs who will be eligible for the draft next year like Robert Woods, Keenan Allen, Marquess Wilson, Justin Hunter but I hate losing so I am trying to figure out how to win games this year.

[Prosecutor]

The company line, courtesy of Mike Holmgren:

what will make the receivers look good is the running back. He will make everybody look better. The receivers, what will make them look good, is if they catch the ball better than they caught it last year. We dropped way too many balls and that wasn’t the quarterbacks fault. I don’t care if bring back Otto Graham, the receivers have to catch the ball. They will be better, for a lot of reasons. That’s why no one is in a panic about how the draft went as far as how our receivers went. We will not drop the ball like we dropped it last year. We will have a running game to go with our passing game. Those things by themselves it will be better.”

I expect the emphasis in training camp will be on catching the GD football, not trying to find an "uncoverable" WR. They're going to wear out those JUGS machines.

There was also a statement about Benjamin having a lot of upside and they expect him to improve with exposure to NFL level coaching.

Obviously the Browns are expecting a ripple effect to help the passing game. TR will force opposing defenses to focus on stopping the run. This will open up play action passes. The QB will have more time to throw than last year (Schwartz and more experienced guards will also help), which will give the receivers more time to get open. With time to throw and a QB with a legitimate NFL arm and a WR with deep speed to stretch the secondary, not to mention a dangerous check-down option in Richardson, the passing game should be significantly improved. Holmgren sounds very confident it will be, despite the surprising decision not to take a WR in the first three picks.

[FUDU]

Holmgren mentioned Otto Graham.

HE GETS IT!

[peeker643]

The company line, courtesy of Mike Holmgren:

what will make the receivers look good is the running back. He will make everybody look better. The receivers, what will make them look good, is if they catch the ball better than they caught it last year. We dropped way too many balls and that wasn’t the quarterbacks fault. I don’t care if bring back Otto Graham, the receivers have to catch the ball. They will be better, for a lot of reasons. That’s why no one is in a panic about how the draft went as far as how our receivers went. We will not drop the ball like we dropped it last year. We will have a running game to go with our passing game. Those things by themselves it will be better.”

I expect the emphasis in training camp will be on catching the GD football, not trying to find an "uncoverable" WR. They're going to wear out those JUGS machines.

There was also a statement about Benjamin having a lot of upside and they expect him to improve with exposure to NFL level coaching.

Obviously the Browns are expecting a ripple effect to help the passing game. TR will force opposing defenses to focus on stopping the run. This will open up play action passes. The QB will have more time to throw than last year (Schwartz and more experienced guards will also help), which will give the receivers more time to get open. With time to throw and a QB with a legitimate NFL arm and a WR with deep speed to stretch the secondary, not to mention a dangerous check-down option in Richardson, the passing game should be significantly improved. Holmgren sounds very confident it will be, despite the surprising decision not to take a WR in the first three picks.

So the receivers will be 2010 good?

That's tremendous.

Can't wait.

Jugs Machines? Really? You understand that's about as valuable as someone being able to hit batting practice fastballs from the Jugs machines?

I can hit BP fastballs from a Jugs machine. I can catch footballs from a Jugs machine. None of that means shit when you get in a game.

Not a single thing.

I can't tell you how many thousands of footballs I put into Jugs machines that receivers couldn't miss. Receivers that never made it in the NFL.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Good points so far and catching the ball will help.....I understand you can't get it all in the draft but they should know that too.

Management should not have put themselves in that predicament and that is part of Peeker's argument. Not addressing the WR position at all during free agency was a mistake. They didn't have to go after Vincent Jackson but they came away with bagels and put themselves in a bind.

They should have improved the group a little at least. Now we are down to Mark Clayton, Patrick Crayton or some other team's castoff.

I will admit if Green Bay cuts dies with Donald Driver I wouldn't mind paying a vet for some OJT for the WR group in this offense but I am pretty sure Driver wouldn't want to come to Cleveland over any team that had a legit shot at a championship.

I understand the guy is ancient, I wouldn't be paying for production. I would be paying for all the other stuff he would bring.....minus the dancing.

I think the Browns wanted to add a starting WR in free agency but after they saw the price tag for guys like Pierre Garcon, they decided to bow out gracefully, knowing that they're at least 2 years away anyway. Might as well not blow their load for a blah guy that will be the difference between 3-13 and 4-12.

[FUDU]

Agreed peeker.

We need footstep machines, not to mention, down and distance machines, throw in a crowd noise machine and a your gonna get yelled at if you drop it machine and we're all set.

[pod2dawg]

.........I have seen worse WR cores be part of very effective offenses.....

JC i agree with everything you said except ^^^^. ;)

[Gradysmanldy]

Holmgren mentioned Otto Graham.

HE GETS IT!

Otto Graham was asked about Weedon, and said he was very ordinary.

[Gradysmanldy]

So the receivers will be 2010 good?

That's tremendous.

Can't wait.

Jugs Machines? Really? You understand that's about as valuable as someone being able to hit batting practice fastballs from the Jugs machines?

I can hit BP fastballs from a Jugs machine. I can catch footballs from a Jugs machine. None of that means shit when you get in a game.

Not a single thing.

I can't tell you how many thousands of footballs I put into Jugs machines that receivers couldn't miss. Receivers that never made it in the NFL.

That being said, the receivers cant possibly suck any more than they did last year. Between colt floating them balls in traffic and getting them whopped every 3 times a day, and Little with the DEBILITATING drops, and Slo-mass being unable to stay healthy, and.....*pant pant* Norwood coming onto the scene late, and not one of them being able to stretch the field (even if Colt could get it to them, when they do).....lots of room for improvement in the receiving corps.

And again, lots of close games last year. (Albeit a weak schedule)

Little doesn't need to become a "cant cover" WR. He needs to hang onto the goddamn ball, and without a thousand thoughts swirling through his head on every play because he didn't have any preparation for the season and didn't play in the previous season, I imagine he will. At least more frequently.

I expect if Weeden gets the ball out of his hand quickly, and reads his progressions and least to an average level, Slo-Mass doesn't repeatedly get his bell rung.....and maybe he plays to 2009 levels, when he put up 600+ yds and 3 tds in an offense that ran the ball more than 50% and completed a pathetic <50% of their passes. (Which would be an enormous improvement in an offense that should be more like 60/40 pass/run)

I dont like the inactivity at WR in FA/draft as much as the next guy, and I think it reeks of arrogance in the WCO that you can turn the Kevin Curtises and Reggie Browns into valuable receivers....but sometimes, they're right. (Those 97' packers had a decent passing offense with Antonio Freeman (4th) Qadry Ismail (2nd) and Donald Driver (7th) leading the way.....I think.

Interesting how many drops this team ALWAYS has.....the ESPN article I just read from 2009 said no QB could compete with the offense in place, and that they were at the top of the league in drops that year too.

[Hikohadon]

Then we will all stand in a big circle, aim at the guy across from us, and pull the triggers in unison.

[JCoz]

So the receivers will be 2010 good?

That's tremendous.

Can't wait.

Jugs Machines? Really? You understand that's about as valuable as someone being able to hit batting practice fastballs from the Jugs machines?

I can hit BP fastballs from a Jugs machine. I can catch footballs from a Jugs machine. None of that means shit when you get in a game.

Not a single thing.

I can't tell you how many thousands of footballs I put into Jugs machines that receivers couldn't miss. Receivers that never made it in the NFL.

Yah I guess just like the above post, I'm hoping that the receivers are at least a little better than they showed last season. Its hard for me to truly believe that we've basically got the worse hands in the NFL/AFC...I understand we did in '11 but, I'm thinking there are other gears out of order and a little momentum behind the epically bad showing in 2011.

But maybe that really is what we've got. We will see soon I guess.

[jta1975]

Sounds like hope is what we are banking on. And as I said before sure Little led the team in drops but in reality his percentage of drops compared to others on the team was not the worst.

Like I said in another post. Cleveland had 2 of the top 10 in the league and 4 of the top 11 in the AFC when it comes to drops. Little caught 61 balls and then next WR (Cribbs) caught 40 that means the rest of those guys on the list were just as much a factor if not more.

People can live in a bubble and rip on Little but the real sad part of the situation in my eyes is that a WR who was going into his second year at the position and coming off of a year football layoff needed to be targeted as much as he did. That says all I need to know about the WR group as a whole.

The group needed an uprgrade no matter if they drop fewer passes or not. At some point talent has to be addressed with more than hope.

[justmebd]

I'm hoping next time I die after a night of binge drinking, I'm dead for ONLY three minutes this time, because four was REALLY pushing it. That new EMT I hired seems like he's a little better on the chest compressions than the last one.

Jesus Christ I can't believe what some people will cling to in order to give themselves false hope for the upcoming season.

[jta1975]

I know the Browns will be a better team than last year because the overall talent has increased. My gripes are about being a good team....not about simply being better than 4-12.

[JCoz]

Sounds like hope is what we are banking on. And as I said before sure Little led the team in drops but in reality his percentage of drops compared to others on the team was not the worst.

Like I said in another post. Cleveland had 2 of the top 10 in the league and 4 of the top 11 in the AFC when it comes to drops. Little caught 61 balls and then next WR (Cribbs) caught 40 that means the rest of those guys on the list were just as much a factor if not more.

People can live in a bubble and rip on Little but the real sad part of the situation in my eyes is that a WR who was going into his second year at the position and coming off of a year football layoff needed to be targeted as much as he did. That says all I need to know about the WR group as a whole.

The group needed an uprgrade no matter if they drop fewer passes or not. At some point talent has to be addressed with more than hope.

I dont think so. Hope as far as the drops going down? Yes, but there are logical reasons for the passing game to improve even if the Browns repeat their performace regarding drops.

I dont think anyone argues that the Browns are close to set at the WR position. And I doubt many are happy about the lack of attention from the FO in offseason in general.

I think there is far less hope in something magincal happening in the WRing core than there is despair. The browns had several chances to draft WR's to help and didn't. I dont think that fooled anyone into think we actually have good receivers.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Then we will all stand in a big circle, aim at the guy across from us, and pull the triggers in unison.

That's not how you do it, fucker. A circle, everyone has two guns, one pointed at the guy to the left and one to the right. One guy in the center who stuck all the handles in his ass.

[jta1975]

Sounds like hope is what we are banking on. And as I said before sure Little led the team in drops but in reality his percentage of drops compared to others on the team was not the worst.

Like I said in another post. Cleveland had 2 of the top 10 in the league and 4 of the top 11 in the AFC when it comes to drops. Little caught 61 balls and then next WR (Cribbs) caught 40 that means the rest of those guys on the list were just as much a factor if not more.

People can live in a bubble and rip on Little but the real sad part of the situation in my eyes is that a WR who was going into his second year at the position and coming off of a year football layoff needed to be targeted as much as he did. That says all I need to know about the WR group as a whole.

The group needed an uprgrade no matter if they drop fewer passes or not. At some point talent has to be addressed with more than hope.

I dont think so. Hope as far as the drops going down? Yes, but there are logical reasons for the passing game to improve even if the Browns repeat their performace regarding drops.

I dont think anyone argues that the Browns are close to set at the WR position. And I doubt many are happy about the lack of attention from the FO in offseason in general.

I think there is far less hope in something magincal happening in the WRing core than there is despair. The browns had several chances to draft WR's to help and didn't. I dont think that fooled anyone into think we actually have good receivers.

Please help me understand because now I am really confused. You just said with repeat performance from a drop standpoint there are logical reasons the passing game will be better. Can you please elaborate because if less drops isn't #1 on this list I think the list is useless.

[motherscratcher]

How much improvement in receiver play can we expect with a (hopefully) improved QB, a much improve O Line, and another year in the system?

There has to be some, right?

Also, what are the chances that an adequate stop gap WR can be picked up when teams cut down rosters?

[jta1975]

How much improvement in receiver play can we expect with a (hopefully) improved QB, a much improve O Line, and another year in the system?

There has to be some, right?

Also, what are the chances that an adequate stop gap WR can be picked up when teams cut down rosters?

I agree with all the things you listed but I also would have like to address the talent standpoint in some aspect. I started the post because I wanted to probe some ideas about upgrading the talent at the position.

I agree that there are some factors that as a fan we can cling to as reasons why the passing game will be better I am not arguing that point because I believe it also.

From a pure talent aspect I think they should have improved the group. I have the same general belief in the reasons that offer hope. I want to talk about actual players because I also understand that if the reasons that offer hope for improvement fail talent can sometimes trump circumstances and the talent level is low for that group and it didn't need to stay that way for another year.

What teams have older players they might cut, what teams have a abundance of talent at the position. Are there any free agents left people think can help? Any trades make sense? I already know the company lines when it comes to rational reasons why the passing game will be better but if those don't hold water how can we improve the talent or are we stuck till next year?

[JCoz]

Sounds like hope is what we are banking on. And as I said before sure Little led the team in drops but in reality his percentage of drops compared to others on the team was not the worst.

Like I said in another post. Cleveland had 2 of the top 10 in the league and 4 of the top 11 in the AFC when it comes to drops. Little caught 61 balls and then next WR (Cribbs) caught 40 that means the rest of those guys on the list were just as much a factor if not more.

People can live in a bubble and rip on Little but the real sad part of the situation in my eyes is that a WR who was going into his second year at the position and coming off of a year football layoff needed to be targeted as much as he did. That says all I need to know about the WR group as a whole.

The group needed an uprgrade no matter if they drop fewer passes or not. At some point talent has to be addressed with more than hope.

I dont think so. Hope as far as the drops going down? Yes, but there are logical reasons for the passing game to improve even if the Browns repeat their performace regarding drops.

I dont think anyone argues that the Browns are close to set at the WR position. And I doubt many are happy about the lack of attention from the FO in offseason in general.

I think there is far less hope in something magincal happening in the WRing core than there is despair. The browns had several chances to draft WR's to help and didn't. I dont think that fooled anyone into think we actually have good receivers.

Please help me understand because now I am really confused. You just said with repeat performance from a drop standpoint there are logical reasons the passing game will be better. Can you please elaborate because if less drops isn't #1 on this list I think the list is useless.

Already did in my first response. Logical reasons being better protection, better QB play, better running game, better offensive game plan with a full coaching staff. Those are logical reasons for the passing game to be better. I hope last year was not what they are as a group from a hands stand point but it's like Peek said, it isn't like hitting the jugs machine is going to change that if they just aren't very good at catching the football.

[JCoz]

How much improvement in receiver play can we expect with a (hopefully) improved QB, a much improve O Line, and another year in the system?

There has to be some, right?

Also, what are the chances that an adequate stop gap WR can be picked up when teams cut down rosters?

I agree with all the things you listed but I also would have like to address the talent standpoint in some aspect. I started the post because I wanted to probe some ideas about upgrading the talent at the position.

I agree that there are some factors that as a fan we can cling to as reasons why the passing game will be better I am not arguing that point because I believe it also.

From a pure talent aspect I think they should have improved the group. I have the same general belief in the reasons that offer hope. I want to talk about actual players because I also understand that if the reasons that offer hope for improvement fail talent can sometimes trump circumstances and the talent level is low for that group and it didn't need to stay that way for another year.

What teams have older players they might cut, what teams have a abundance of talent at the position. Are there any free agents left people think can help? Any trades make sense? I already know the company lines when it comes to rational reasons why the passing game will be better but if those don't hold water how can we improve the talent or are we stuck till next year?

Again, I don't think anyone thinks that WR doesn't beedi be upgraded. Driver could get cut, Dane Sanzenbacher could get cut with the additions Chicago made. But I find it really hard to get my hopes up that this regime is really going to go looking to add talent worth talking about when they seem so disinterested in it from the way the rest of this offseason went.

[jta1975]

How much improvement in receiver play can we expect with a (hopefully) improved QB, a much improve O Line, and another year in the system?

There has to be some, right?

Also, what are the chances that an adequate stop gap WR can be picked up when teams cut down rosters?

I agree with all the things you listed but I also would have like to address the talent standpoint in some aspect. I started the post because I wanted to probe some ideas about upgrading the talent at the position.

I agree that there are some factors that as a fan we can cling to as reasons why the passing game will be better I am not arguing that point because I believe it also.

From a pure talent aspect I think they should have improved the group. I have the same general belief in the reasons that offer hope. I want to talk about actual players because I also understand that if the reasons that offer hope for improvement fail talent can sometimes trump circumstances and the talent level is low for that group and it didn't need to stay that way for another year.

What teams have older players they might cut, what teams have a abundance of talent at the position. Are there any free agents left people think can help? Any trades make sense? I already know the company lines when it comes to rational reasons why the passing game will be better but if those don't hold water how can we improve the talent or are we stuck till next year?

Again, I don't think anyone thinks that WR doesn't beedi be upgraded. Driver could get cut, Dane Sanzenbacher could get cut with the additions Chicago made. But I find it really hard to get my hopes up that this regime is really going to go looking to add talent worth talking about when they seem so disinterested in it from the way the rest of this offseason went.

I agree about not getting my hope up but I still like having the conversation.

[jb]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

With a lame duck like sHURRRRRRmur.

[jb]

so I am trying to figure out how to win games this year.

Why?

It's been awful for years and we are finally within striking distance of having enough talent and continuity to be relevant with one more draft.

The schedule is a bitty. I'm down with another 5 win season.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Sweet!

Within striking distance of being relevant.

gun.jpg

[jta1975]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

Can't even compare Jordy Nelson,James Jones, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings from a talent standpoint to our group but I agree without a doubt they have a STUD QB.

[jta1975]

so I am trying to figure out how to win games this year.

Why?

It's been awful for years and we are finally within striking distance of having enough talent and continuity to be relevant with one more draft.

The schedule is a bitty. I'm down with another 5 win season.

One way to look at it and as much as I love the draft, I equally hate losing.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

Rogers did a McCoy impersonation in the playoffs....ie: he was on his ass a lot

[jb]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

Rogers did a McCoy impersonation in the playoffs....ie: he was on his ass a lot

Yep. It all comes together. Sure, I also think the WR's will be the weak links in 2012, but there had to be one. 4 holes, 3 picks.

Hope Little does make the 2nd year step up and we see if Norwood has a future. The rest can all make a case for relevance.

[peeker643]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

Can't even compare Jordy Nelson,James Jones, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings from a talent standpoint to our group but I agree without a doubt they have a STUD QB.

Yoiu can if your standard is Larry Fitz.

I think there are a lot of players between Larry Fitz and the Browns group of receivers. The Packers group is, as a whole, between Fitz and the Browns.

I heard the last 4 months how shitty Kevin Kolb is. Yet Fitz caught 80 balls with that shitty QB situation and had 1500 yards.

Meh... I'm just happy we have our QB now. Weeden and mediocre receivers should still be good enough just like in GB.

Again, I wish they had upgraded that spot. You can have Rodgers under Mack and Cribbs is still not a natural WR and not one WR on that roster can break a play like even Jordy Nelson can.

I do think Jordan Cameron Jordan and Evan Moore will mitigate that somewhat because Weeden will make them more viable.

I hope. I still think it's way too optimistic that they fixed the QB spot with this draft.

YMMV

[jb]

Unless the Mayans were correct, we can draft one next year. Too many holes for one year.

Then again, there are no "can't cover" WR's on Green Bay.. But there is Aaron Rogers and one hell of an offensive system and plenty of good receivers.

But there's no Larry Fitz and GB's O produces can't cover receivers. Why is that?

Can't even compare Jordy Nelson,James Jones, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings from a talent standpoint to our group but I agree without a doubt they have a STUD QB.

I agree Jay. We're pretty screwed for 2012. But you get the overall point I think. Ingredients in a vacuum don't do it. I wanted Hill, too. But given the choice between a ORT than can start effectively (not as a project) from game one and Hill, man, had to go ORT. Just had to.

I just hope Weeden is part of the ingredients for real that when mixed with a better WR or two can get us where we need to be.

[jb]

so I am trying to figure out how to win games this year.

Why?

It's been awful for years and we are finally within striking distance of having enough talent and continuity to be relevant with one more draft.

The schedule is a bitty. I'm down with another 5 win season.

One way to look at it and as much as I love the draft, I equally hate losing.

Can't really be helped until a critical mass of talent is in the hands of competent continuity. Until then there's always tail gating.

[jb]

Sweet!

Within striking distance of being relevant.

gun.jpg

Better than you as a poster though.

[Gradysmanldy]

Paging jacoby jones

[Hikohadon]

I think there are a lot of players between Larry Fitz and the Browns group of receivers. The Packers group is, as a whole, between Fitz and the Browns.

I heard the last 4 months how shitty Kevin Kolb is. Yet Fitz caught 80 balls with that shitty QB situation and had 1500 yards.

And they still sucked. Because they got poor play from the QB position. Without a good QB, you still aren't going anywhere, Fitz or no Fitz.

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

[Prosecutor]

They [the Browns wide receivers] will be better, for a lot of reasons. That’s why no one is in a panic about how the draft went as far as how our receivers went. We will not drop the ball like we dropped it last year. - Mike Holmgren

I wish someone had asked him what those reasons are. I'm guessing that he expects Little and Norwood to be better simply because they have a year of experience at the pro level. Although as I recall that didn't help Quincy Morgan and Michael Dyson Jackson drop fewer passes.

I'm also guessing the coaching staff will emphasize fundamentals in TC, i.e., looking the ball in, securing the ball before turning upfield, etc. That's where the JUGS comes in. It doesn't give you better hands, but it gives you more reps to lock in the fundamentals.

Maybe Holmgren expects that having a QB who can deliver the ball on time and in the right spot will result in fewer drops.

But I'm just speculating here. Holmgren says he knows a lot of reasons why there were so many drops, and he's confident there will be fewer this year. Well, that's one thing that will be easy to track.

He also said last year that switching to the WCO would immediately benefit Massa and Robiskie. Uh, right.

[peeker643]

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

Let me ignore the most horrific hyperbole I've ever seen on this site in your last sentence and focus on a fundamental problem I have with the othr part of the paragraph.

Who drafted Colt?

Who made the mistake of spending a relatively valuable pick on a weak-armed midget with a stage daddy who you say can't benefit from the three best receivers in the game?

The experts, right? The ones I can't question or complain about suddenly, right? They drafted Colt and they probably shoulda known about his arm and his height and his old man, no?

They drafted Colt. They signed Jake Delhomme and paid him maybe the most ridiculous $25m ever paid out in the NFL. They brought in a backup like Seneca Wallace who refuses to be a mentor to young QBs, yes?

And I'm expected to believe that they got it right with Weeden and did so at 22? And I suppose I should believe the fact he's almost 30 will preclude him from having to learn the league and take his lumps for the next two years to the point when he's headed toward 32 or so, he may be the right guy, right?

You see nothing at all in any of this that limits my faith and confidence in the same assholes who gave you all of the above suddently swinging it 180 the other way Thursday night when they took a guy at 22 that wasn't on their 1st round board?

Y'all can receive it warmly. I'm an eye-rolling, head shaking, lol-ing motherfucking disbelever right now.

Keep the 'Gotta Have Faith or Ya Got Nothing at All' shit on this one.

I have hope. Very little, but I have hope.

That's not faith. And anyone that has it needs to look at themselves and ask why the fuck they do if you ask me.

Goddamn. If wives and girlfriends treated ya like this front office does you'd wake up and walk, no? You wouldn't let them keep walking all over ya like we do. How many times she gonna fuck your friend and say she won't again?

I don't get it.

[General]

I'm with Peek on this. I firmly believe that Holmgren is mailing it in. I think Heckert is trying to do something as he is still fighting for a career, but this is a headless organization and the suffering will continue. If I am off base forgive me, but I barely follow them anymore, I am almost more bummed out over bounty-gate then the Clowns.

[motherscratcher]

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

Let me ignore the most horrific hyperbole I've ever seen on this site in your last sentence and focus on a fundamental problem I have with the othr part of the paragraph.

Who drafted Colt?

Who made the mistake of spending a relatively valuable pick on a weak-armed midget with a stage daddy who you say can't benefit from the three best receivers in the game?

The experts, right? The ones I can't question or complain about suddenly, right? They drafted Colt and they probably shoulda known about his arm and his height and his old man, no?

They drafted Colt. They signed Jake Delhomme and paid him maybe the most ridiculous $25m ever paid out in the NFL. They brought in a backup like Seneca Wallace who refuses to be a mentor to young QBs, yes?

And I'm expected to believe that they got it right with Weeden and did so at 22? And I suppose I should believe the fact he's almost 30 will preclude him from having to learn the league and take his lumps for the next two years to the point when he's headed toward 32 or so, he may be the right guy, right?

You see nothing at all in any of this that limits my faith and confidence in the same assholes who gave you all of the above suddently swinging it 180 the other way Thursday night when they took a guy at 22 that wasn't on their 1st round board?

Y'all can receive it warmly. I'm an eye-rolling, head shaking, lol-ing motherfucking disbelever right now.

Keep the 'Gotta Have Faith or Ya Got Nothing at All' shit on this one.

I have hope. Very little, but I have hope.

That's not faith. And anyone that has it needs to look at themselves and ask why the fuck they do if you ask me.

Goddamn. If wives and girlfriends treated ya like this front office does you'd wake up and walk, no? You wouldn't let them keep walking all over ya like we do. How many times she gonna fuck your friend and say she won't again?

I don't get it.

It's a little disingenuous to put it this way though. It's not like this regime has to pull a 180 and turn it completely around to make a good decision. I agree with every damn thing you just said as it pertains to Colt, the draft, and the Weeden pick.

But to say they have to turn a 180 is kind of implying that they've done nothing except fuck up after fuckup. they've done nothing right..

Why isn't it just as legitimate to say that tehy drafted Haden when a lot of people thought he was too slow and not worth the 7th pick. They drafted Sheard when nobody had heard of him. They drafted Taylor and Ward and it looks like those guys might be fine players in the league. So, drafting Weeden and hitting a home run with it is right in line with all of the good things that this regime has done in the last 2 years.

That would be ridiculous, right? Ridiculous to note all of the good things and ignore completely the many fuckups and missteps.

If Weeden works out its' not like this regime pulled a 180 out of it.s ass. This regime has it's successes and failures, just like every other team.

[peeker643]

Too early to say if they fixed the QB spot yet? Of course. If they got Luck or RG3, you could say the same thing (to a lesser extent). But they at least got a guy that has a CHANCE of being a good NFL QB. Colt had no chance, even if his WR corps was Fitz, Calvin Johnson, and Andre Johnson in the slot.

Let me ignore the most horrific hyperbole I've ever seen on this site in your last sentence and focus on a fundamental problem I have with the othr part of the paragraph.

Who drafted Colt?

Who made the mistake of spending a relatively valuable pick on a weak-armed midget with a stage daddy who you say can't benefit from the three best receivers in the game?

The experts, right? The ones I can't question or complain about suddenly, right? They drafted Colt and they probably shoulda known about his arm and his height and his old man, no?

They drafted Colt. They signed Jake Delhomme and paid him maybe the most ridiculous $25m ever paid out in the NFL. They brought in a backup like Seneca Wallace who refuses to be a mentor to young QBs, yes?

And I'm expected to believe that they got it right with Weeden and did so at 22? And I suppose I should believe the fact he's almost 30 will preclude him from having to learn the league and take his lumps for the next two years to the point when he's headed toward 32 or so, he may be the right guy, right?

You see nothing at all in any of this that limits my faith and confidence in the same assholes who gave you all of the above suddently swinging it 180 the other way Thursday night when they took a guy at 22 that wasn't on their 1st round board?

Y'all can receive it warmly. I'm an eye-rolling, head shaking, lol-ing motherfucking disbelever right now.

Keep the 'Gotta Have Faith or Ya Got Nothing at All' shit on this one.

I have hope. Very little, but I have hope.

That's not faith. And anyone that has it needs to look at themselves and ask why the fuck they do if you ask me.

Goddamn. If wives and girlfriends treated ya like this front office does you'd wake up and walk, no? You wouldn't let them keep walking all over ya like we do. How many times she gonna fuck your friend and say she won't again?

I don't get it.

It's a little disingenuous to put it this way though. It's not like this regime has to pull a 180 and turn it completely around to make a good decision. I agree with every damn thing you just said as it pertains to Colt, the draft, and the Weeden pick.

But to say they have to turn a 180 is kind of implying that they've done nothing except fuck up after fuckup. they've done nothing right..

Why isn't it just as legitimate to say that tehy drafted Haden when a lot of people thought he was too slow and not worth the 7th pick. They drafted Sheard when nobody had heard of him. They drafted Taylor and Ward and it looks like those guys might be fine players in the league. So, drafting Weeden and hitting a home run with it is right in line with all of the good things that this regime has done in the last 2 years.

That would be ridiculous, right? Ridiculous to note all of the good things and ignore completely the many fuckups and missteps.

If Weeden works out its' not like this regime pulled a 180 out of it.s ass. This regime has it's successes and failures, just like every other team.

Because I was speaking about the QB in relation to making the receivers better.

Of course they've had hits.

Now tell me why I should believe they got this Weeden thing right again?

[motherscratcher]

Because I was speaking about the QB in relation to making the receivers better.

Of course they've had hits.

Now tell me why I should believe they got this Weeden thing right again?

Because of Joe Haden, duh. Joe Haden is good, so obviously Weeden will be too, right? Isn't that how this works?

I guess I misunderstand you. I thought you were saying that due to the fuckups of drafting Colt and (allegedly) reaching for Weeden, we really have no solid basis for thinking that they got the Weeden thing right, except for blind hope.

[peeker643]

Because I was speaking about the QB in relation to making the receivers better.

Of course they've had hits.

Now tell me why I should believe they got this Weeden thing right again?

Because of Joe Haden, duh. Joe Haden is good, so obviously Weeden will be too, right? Isn't that how this works?

I guess I misunderstand you. I thought you were saying that due to the fuckups of drafting Colt and (allegedly) reaching for Weeden, we really have no solid basis for thinking that they got the Weeden thing right, except for blind hope.

Nah... I just gave their proud QB history.

I'm fine w/Haden and Taylor and I'm okay with Ward and Sheard (seeing any patterns here?).

Not so fond of their history w/RBs and QBs which is why they're in perfect position to fuck those spots up again.

Tired of hearing about Favre's success a thousand years ago and Matt Hasselbeck's mediocrity being held up in homage to Walrus.

He's fucked up every single QB decision he's made here.

And I'm supposed to think this one's better because people hope it will be.

Hope in one hand, shit in the other. Lemme know which fills up faster.

[Xukuth]

Who needs a passing game when you draft the second coming of Jim Brown?

On that same track.....So Otto says Brandon is ordinary, and Jim says Trent is ordinary.....well hell, life just ain't worth livin.

[OldDawg]

Bump for pup