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Wide Spread Panic

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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:18 am

jb wrote:
Triple-S wrote:
jb wrote:A WR was a need and remains a need.

An ORT was a must. They couldn't have taken a snap without a high quality prospect there. In fact, I hope they draft another ORT prospect. O'Neil Cousins can't play a lick. Makes me miss St Clair.


I felt bad criticizing Pashos all year after the injury he played with.

But yes, indeed. Lets see how Pinkston and Luvao play at Guards now, and pray we stay healthy.


I thought Pink got better.

I have low optimism for Lavauo. But again, you can't fix it all in one draft. I think they netted 3 potential quality starters. Do that with theWR's and pass rush and maybe a DB next draft and we start to compete.

I think we'll have a shot at a gem changing WR or elite pass rusher when we draft op 5 again next draft.

And maybe, just maybe, we can get things like a RG in FA like a normal franchise.


Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:28 pm

I'm in a hive mind with JB? All that beer has been doing something to me.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:14 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:
Triple-S wrote:
jb wrote:A WR was a need and remains a need.

An ORT was a must. They couldn't have taken a snap without a high quality prospect there. In fact, I hope they draft another ORT prospect. O'Neil Cousins can't play a lick. Makes me miss St Clair.


I felt bad criticizing Pashos all year after the injury he played with.

But yes, indeed. Lets see how Pinkston and Luvao play at Guards now, and pray we stay healthy.


I thought Pink got better.

I have low optimism for Lavauo. But again, you can't fix it all in one draft. I think they netted 3 potential quality starters. Do that with theWR's and pass rush and maybe a DB next draft and we start to compete.

I think we'll have a shot at a gem changing WR or elite pass rusher when we draft op 5 again next draft.

And maybe, just maybe, we can get things like a RG in FA like a normal franchise.


Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.



SD:

Its clear they threw all that long term junk out the window and are in full have to produce now stride .

Nobody can argue they let the draft come to them , when they got suckered into trading up and could have traded down and maximized the pick .

Moreover they picked the onlty QB left which gives them the ability to plug and go now , rather than the long term guy with more future upside .

We can only hope they made the right picks and it isn't too late that they've gotten off the Couch and got their raggitty asses in gear .

Nowasting three free agencies doing just the minimum and leaving surplus on the cap every year has finally caugt upto them .

They're outta time and Randy has started the clock .

Good.

The Browns should double down and get another QB , just like Ellway the Hawks and the Skins and Philly .

glad we finally a linebacker .

Anybody got a line on James Micheal Johnson.

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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:27 pm

IOW, Shurmur and Holmgren read HooDoo's piece on "2 years to rebuild, max".
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:44 pm

Never seen that James MJ kid play, interested to see if he projects as a rotational lb behind Maieva or if they see him as starter potential. Difficult to find game changers at that round, but the stoolers manage it regularly so who knows.

Really hope that Benjamin kid can run sme routes
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:46 pm

FUDU wrote:IOW, Shurmur and Holmgren read HooDoo's piece on "2 years to rebuild, max".



SD:

Well what they retained didn't do em much good considering this is year three.


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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby jb » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:23 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:
Triple-S wrote:
jb wrote:A WR was a need and remains a need.

An ORT was a must. They couldn't have taken a snap without a high quality prospect there. In fact, I hope they draft another ORT prospect. O'Neil Cousins can't play a lick. Makes me miss St Clair.


I felt bad criticizing Pashos all year after the injury he played with.

But yes, indeed. Lets see how Pinkston and Luvao play at Guards now, and pray we stay healthy.


I thought Pink got better.

I have low optimism for Lavauo. But again, you can't fix it all in one draft. I think they netted 3 potential quality starters. Do that with theWR's and pass rush and maybe a DB next draft and we start to compete.

I think we'll have a shot at a gem changing WR or elite pass rusher when we draft op 5 again next draft.

And maybe, just maybe, we can get things like a RG in FA like a normal franchise.


Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.


And I think they drafted Weeden because he's a hellofaprospect and Colt is not the answer.

Sometimes a football is just a football.

Look, we've had a half season of good QB play since 2002. If a 28 year old Weeden plays at Flacco level or better - what I expect basement level given similar skill sets - and gives us 6 - 8 good seasons instead of 12, I'll worry about getting a replacement QB in 2018 and be just damn fine.

Beats what we've had.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:07 pm

jb wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:
Triple-S wrote:
jb wrote:A WR was a need and remains a need.

An ORT was a must. They couldn't have taken a snap without a high quality prospect there. In fact, I hope they draft another ORT prospect. O'Neil Cousins can't play a lick. Makes me miss St Clair.


I felt bad criticizing Pashos all year after the injury he played with.

But yes, indeed. Lets see how Pinkston and Luvao play at Guards now, and pray we stay healthy.


I thought Pink got better.

I have low optimism for Lavauo. But again, you can't fix it all in one draft. I think they netted 3 potential quality starters. Do that with theWR's and pass rush and maybe a DB next draft and we start to compete.

I think we'll have a shot at a gem changing WR or elite pass rusher when we draft op 5 again next draft.

And maybe, just maybe, we can get things like a RG in FA like a normal franchise.


Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.


And I think they drafted Weeden because he's a hellofaprospect and Colt is not the answer.

Sometimes a football is just a football.

Look, we've had a half season of good QB play since 2002. If a 28 year old Weeden plays at Flacco level or better - what I expect basement level given similar skill sets - and gives us 6 - 8 good seasons instead of 12, I'll worry about getting a replacement QB in 2018 and be just damn fine.

Beats what we've had.

It's just hard to imagine 29-yr old and prospect in the same sentence.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby bac5665 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:29 pm

OldDawg wrote:It's just hard to imagine 29-yr old and prospect in the same sentence.


Which is why we got him late in the first instead of at 3. That age netted us TR.

I'll take that any day.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby swerb » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:52 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.

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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:56 pm

bac5665 wrote:
OldDawg wrote:It's just hard to imagine 29-yr old and prospect in the same sentence.


Which is why we got him late in the first instead of at 3. That age netted us TR.

I'll take that any day.


Yep.

If he's even 25, you'd have to snag him at 4 if you wanted him.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:01 am

mattvan1 wrote:Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.


1. There's no doubt that they feel the pressure to win now.

2. There's no guarantee they will be picking in the Top 5 next year.

3. There's no guarantee they will be in position to "just get a QB next year".

4. Other than Tyler Wilson, there are no QB prospects that excite me overmuch next year.

5. Maybe they feel Weeden is a Top 5 pick that they can get at a bargain spot b/c he's 28.

6. Really scary to think of walking into another season with Colt McCoy, Starting QB.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby swerb » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:16 am

As Eddie Murphy famously said in "Raw" ... a Ritz cracker looks like filet mignon to a starving man.

We are all starving. Browns fans, Holmgren, Shurmur ... I don't even include Heckert cause the Weeden pick was all Walrus/Shur.

Three days ago Weeden was a guy no one was super excited about. A guy thats gonna be 29 as a rookie that played in a spread offense against no defenses in the Big 12, a guy that can wing it around but makes a lot of stupid throws, has bad footwork, locks on to guys, and has not shown the one trait that you MUST have in this league to succeed ... the ability to quickly assess progressions and make quick, smart, accurate decisions.

Now he's a surefire NFL starter. Browns already annointed him. Colt will be dealt. Browns took him at #22 despite the fact no one had a first round grade on this guy, including the Browns according to Lane Adkins ... who was dead on with every one of his inside tips.

It was a total panic pick. The Browns correctly assessed this off-season that Colt McCoy cannot win more than 6 games with this supporting cast and that he is not good enough of a QB to win the SB. They had a chance to get RG3, Rams from day one said they would deal the #2 pick. They couldn't get it done. So here comes the panic pick. Like when you get hit with a very bad beat at the poker table and then make an irrational play on the next hand cause you're still reeling.

I do think Weeden has a better shot to be a B+ QB in this league than McCoy, but I'm not sure he'll be a better QB this season ... which is what the Browns are banking on by their total dismissal of Colt and his chances to compete for the role. Just cause Weeden is 28 doesn't mean he can walk in and play today. To me its less about age, more about game experience when it comes to QBs adjusting to the next level. The size of the pass rushers and DBs. The speed of the game.

For a hick kid coming out of a spread that played against no defenses in college, that's a tough transition. Especially with no WRs and a bunch of ?'s on the O-Line.

We've seen that song and dance before.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby comish » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:34 am

To be fair, Rich, there were plenty of people on here and elsewhere talking about the Weed Man before Thursday. I honestly think, without seeing things with my brown and orange colored glasses, that this guy is going to be a joy to watch...of course I thought that about Quinn too....

I think our offensive line is beginning to shape up nicely now, assuming Schwartz is an effective starter to go along with Thomas and Mack.

Now the receiver issue.....yuck

I can buy your logic about panicking, I can, but panic or not. The Browns took 3 much needed offensive starters with their first three picks.....I can't fault them for any of that.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby swerb » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:45 am

At least with Weeden there's hope. While with Colt, there's none ... at least with me.

Weeden has the arm, can make the throws, and that's why he's alluring. That's why the Browns rolled the dice on him at #22.

Derek Anderson had the arm too though.

But that is the nice part about the Weeden thing. The Browns may have their guy now, something we couldn't say Wednesday. Be fun to watch this kid wing the ball all over the field. Just wish he had some better options to throw it too. Just flabbergasted that the Browns totally ignored WR in FA and the Draft.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:45 am

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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby comish » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:41 am

swerb wrote:Just flabbergasted that the Browns totally ignored WR in FA and the Draft.


And if not WR, then at least address another area of need so that in the draft you have less holes to fill. Did they think Frostee was enough? Or were there just no viable free agents to target?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:17 pm

="swerb"Now he's a surefire NFL starter. Browns already annointed him. Colt will be dealt. Browns took him at #22 despite the fact no one had a first round grade on this guy, including the Browns according to Lane Adkins ... who was dead on with every one of his inside tips.


Can we use Lane as a source if it goes against what we think personally? ;-) ;) :wink:

Of course they panicked.

As noted in the Wrap, when you fuck most shit up for three years you start paying interest on your fuckups. That's where we are now.

With enough people so dying to believe in something that they'll line up for a crap sandwich.

Awesome. He's better than Colt. Terrific. So are about 25 other starters and 8 other backups.

Now that he's a Brown age is no issue. He's mature.

The FO and fanbase really do deserve each other.

But hey, their our fuckups now. Time to start inflating their actual and emotonal value to us or tearing them down piece by piece.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:47 pm

^^^^^So Cleveland.

Excellent.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:50 pm

swerb wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Couple of things.
We had 3 picks in the top 40 - getting 3 potential quality starters for a team that has won 9 games in 2 years is the floor - the bare minimum.

If we're picking in the top 5 again next year then why didn't we wait to get a QB next year? Could have grabbed OL at 22 and WR at 37, etc. Is it he Randy factor or they loved Weeden that much or hate Brad McCoy that much?

I think they grabbed Weeden this year because they know another top 5 pick next year means the ax. They HAD to improve QB play asap, even if it means a band aid approach instead of a more fundamental build. I see this a bit differently. I see Randy's impatience forcing the hand of H&H.

Image


I'm in this camp. I think Matt hit it out of the park.

It sure seems like they drafted in those early rounds as if they were knocking on the door next year.

Me, I'll take Claiborne and Reiff and keep my picks. (Which is a funny side notes, I've heard guy say, "we only gave up a 4th...for Richardson, big deal" - and then drool over guys the Browns picked with their other 4th and 5th round picks)

Anyways, again, you got Richardson for a brief period - like any other modern day RB, and you got a 29 year old rookie QB, who ain't gonna be 29 when he learns the pro game.

In Morris and Reiff you're siting on guys that are gonna be hitting their prime in a couple/three years - and have years behind those to rise as the team rises. Which is a far more realistic time frame than one or two years.

And this is what I've been saying for years on this site - THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU HAVE AN ABSENTEE OWNER/GM-HEAD COACH IN CAHOOTS OWNERSHIP.

THERE ARE ZERO CHECKS AND BALANCES. SO, INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE ORGANIZATION'S FUTURE, WHAT IS DONE IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO SAVE CURRENT JOBS.

The Gm's job is to provde a winning team - not save a coaches ass - no matter what reason he's saving said coaches ass for.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:54 pm

leadpipe wrote:The Gm's job is to provde a winning team - not save a coaches ass - no matter what reason he's saving said coaches ass for.

Great statement.

But as many have stated, said coach's ass and said GM's ass are intertwined. Holmgren had one qualification for an HC. WCO. Period. Leadership skills wasn't even on the job description. That call is on him. I honestly thought Holmgren was the answer. His first head coach selection is all I need to know to realize he is not.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:57 pm

OldDawg wrote:But as many have stated, said coach's ass and said GM's ass are intertwined.

Appreciate the visual.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:26 pm

OldDawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:The Gm's job is to provde a winning team - not save a coaches ass - no matter what reason he's saving said coaches ass for.

Great statement.

But as many have stated, said coach's ass and said GM's ass are intertwined. Holmgren had one qualification for an HC. WCO. Period. Leadership skills wasn't even on the job description. That call is on him. I honestly thought Holmgren was the answer. His first head coach selection is all I need to know to realize he is not.


Well, that's exactly what I said in the rest of the post - you cannot have a GM with a lackey head coach, or a head coach with a GM lackey (Like Mangini/Kokinis)

Until this stops, you're gonna need to get rrrreeeeaaaaallll lucky.

Look at Accorsi/Modell/Marty. Art, for all his faults, and all the obvious and justified hatred he caught, at least had an idea about what was going on. Accorsi, with the job of putting a good team on the field, could look at a draft such as this one and say, "Art, I think we're more than this one draft away from being real competitive....." He could say this without worrying about stepping on the coaches toes, or having to protect his hire. Art in turn, when Marty or whatever coach wants to make a decision that looks to be more about helping the next year, thus saving his job, can rule on what's best for the organization.

The Browns are missing that component and it's HUGE.

And not just on draft day. How many times this year migh the coach play what he feels to be a "safer" veteran, instead of giving a more talented youngster a shot, who needs to start getting experience. The experiance will help the team in the long run, the mediocre vet does nothing for the future with the exception of maybe helping to save the coaches job. Again, a vested owner, or a GM doing HIS job, with the right goal in mind can snuff this shit out. A disinterested owner and a guy justifying his boy will not.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby jta1975 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:41 pm

Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?

I have yet to hear from anyone what team did the cane carrying QB fit besides Cleveland after Dolphins and Redskins got top 10 QBs?


SD....Johnson is a 4 year starter who can play a few different spots...he is strong enough and athletic enough to start on the weak side but he is not the glass eating LB we all want. He not a bully he plays too well with other for me.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:11 am

jta1975 wrote:Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?

I have yet to hear from anyone what team did the cane carrying QB fit besides Cleveland after Dolphins and Redskins got top 10 QBs?


SD....Johnson is a 4 year starter who can play a few different spots...he is strong enough and athletic enough to start on the weak side but he is not the glass eating LB we all want. He not a bully he plays too well with other for me.



SD:

Thanks man , that explains why we found a guy with his measureables in the fourth.

Probably make a decent Baller , but no where near the homicidal maniacs the inbred rats and Bengals are spoorting .

A step in the right diection no doubt , but still leaving us wanting and short .

Maybe we can find a safety and make up the difference .

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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:25 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
jta1975 wrote:Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?

I have yet to hear from anyone what team did the cane carrying QB fit besides Cleveland after Dolphins and Redskins got top 10 QBs?


SD....Johnson is a 4 year starter who can play a few different spots...he is strong enough and athletic enough to start on the weak side but he is not the glass eating LB we all want. He not a bully he plays too well with other for me.



SD:

Thanks man , that explains why we found a guy with his measureables in the fourth.

Probably make a decent Baller , but no where near the homicidal maniacs the inbred rats and Bengals are spoorting .

A step in the right diection no doubt , but still leaving us wanting and short .

Maybe we can find a safety and make up the difference .

SoulDawg


Devils advocate.....My best guess for a team that could use Weedon: Texas, TB, Baltimore.. Three teams that have all the contention peices in place, and questions at QB? It's easy to argue against them taking Wheedon, but if you do, you're assuming that no one would take him until late in the second.

Texas: Shaub's contract expires after this season, which would give Weedon the chance to learn their system without dropping a beat. Plus, Shaub has been mostly meh and feh, and the rest of the team is pretty beastly. Also, Shaub has some health ?? going into the season.....not sure who the team would think is better, Yates with a year of experience, or Weedon.

Bucs: If Freeman falls on his face again this year, they will have wasted what was the most aggressive offseason they've had in a long time.

Baltimore: Last year for Flacco, who has also been feh and blah for the most part. If he can't get over the hump this year, you can replace him with.....himself, basically, with a higher ceiling.

Again, DISCLAIMER: I think the pick was a reach and he was likely there at 37. Those are just a couple examples of ways it COULD have gone between then.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby jta1975 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:48 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
jta1975 wrote:Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?

I have yet to hear from anyone what team did the cane carrying QB fit besides Cleveland after Dolphins and Redskins got top 10 QBs?


SD....Johnson is a 4 year starter who can play a few different spots...he is strong enough and athletic enough to start on the weak side but he is not the glass eating LB we all want. He not a bully he plays too well with other for me.



SD:

Thanks man , that explains why we found a guy with his measureables in the fourth.

Probably make a decent Baller , but no where near the homicidal maniacs the inbred rats and Bengals are spoorting .

A step in the right diection no doubt , but still leaving us wanting and short .

Maybe we can find a safety and make up the difference .

SoulDawg


Devils advocate.....My best guess for a team that could use Weedon: Texas, TB, Baltimore.. Three teams that have all the contention peices in place, and questions at QB? It's easy to argue against them taking Wheedon, but if you do, you're assuming that no one would take him until late in the second.

Texas: Shaub's contract expires after this season, which would give Weedon the chance to learn their system without dropping a beat. Plus, Shaub has been mostly meh and feh, and the rest of the team is pretty beastly. Also, Shaub has some health ?? going into the season.....not sure who the team would think is better, Yates with a year of experience, or Weedon.

Bucs: If Freeman falls on his face again this year, they will have wasted what was the most aggressive offseason they've had in a long time.

Baltimore: Last year for Flacco, who has also been feh and blah for the most part. If he can't get over the hump this year, you can replace him with.....himself, basically, with a higher ceiling.

Again, DISCLAIMER: I think the pick was a reach and he was likely there at 37. Those are just a couple examples of ways it COULD have gone between then.



OK I will play along.....

The Texans have Matt Leinert and a second year player that took them to the playoffs as a rookie. What would they pay (draft pick wise) for a player who will be 30 by week 5 of his second season? How high of a pick for 5-6 year "franchise QB" that they won't truly know about for another 2 years.

Tampa is even a worse team to me, Josh Freeman a first round pick is going to get at least this year so the "if he fails" part again gets the Bucs in a situation where they haven't even let a first round pick who won 10 games as a rookie finish his first contract and they are drafting a QB in what round? Wow, would a new coach put his reputation on replacing a young QB with obvious potential for a guy Weeden's age that hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL? Hell No

Ravens? That is just a kick in the nuts to a great ex-Brown and one of the best GMs in the league. In what round would Ozzie take a QB like Weeden to replace a QB with more playoff wins at this point in his career than any other QB in the history of the game?

I will play the game but it makes me feel dirty, this is too easy, kinda reminds me of playing my two year old in Wii bowling.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:01 pm

jta1975 wrote:Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?


How did Drew Brees do it with the cast of late round picks and UDFA's in New Orleans? How did Jay Cutler do it without a viable receiving option on the field last year?

It helps that you now have a QB that is a threat to throw the ball farther down the field than 10 yards. It helps to have a viable RB so that you can use play action. It helps that you got a speed guy that can at the very least require (likely) 2 guys to cover him deep (unless they're fine putting single coverage on a 4.3 guy running deep routes).

No one is saying they don't need to upgrade the WR position still and no one is saying Weeden solves all the problems. But getting a WR and not upgrading the QB position wouldn't help them get out of a stacked box either, cuz it don't matter how fast/good your WR's are if the QB can't get them the ball.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby jta1975 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:14 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jta1975 wrote:Back out of the draft dungeon.......I have been trying to ask myself a few questions and the first is: "Is Brandon Weeden by himself how Cleveland beats 8 in the box?"


Cleveland will be facing 8 man fronts nonstop so with no additions to improve the WR group......How will that be done?


How did Drew Brees do it with the cast of late round picks and UDFA's in New Orleans? How did Jay Cutler do it without a viable receiving option on the field last year?

It helps that you now have a QB that is a threat to throw the ball farther down the field than 10 yards. It helps to have a viable RB so that you can use play action. It helps that you got a speed guy that can at the very least require (likely) 2 guys to cover him deep (unless they're fine putting single coverage on a 4.3 guy running deep routes).

No one is saying they don't need to upgrade the WR position still and no one is saying Weeden solves all the problems. But getting a WR and not upgrading the QB position wouldn't help them get out of a stacked box either, cuz it don't matter how fast/good your WR's are if the QB can't get them the ball.



The question still exists for Weeden and it won't be answered for a while. Brees had the very best TE in the league that broke scoring records before Jackson came along.

Cutler never got 8 out the box, Forte was just that good and if you want to use the Bears offense as an example then fine but saying Colt McCoy can't dump the ball of to Richardson and throw short passes to Greg Little is stretching the weak arm argument.

Sure there were some ball placement issues with McCoy last year but the Browns also led the league in dropped passes because the peple catching the passes were not that good. As a matter of fact the Browns finished with 2 players in the top ten for the entire league and 4 in the top 11 for the AFC.

Weeden will have to show me that his passes will be easier for the inept group than Colt's were and a player like Travis Benjamin that has 11 career TDs in 4 years isn't a player I am relying on for big plays in the NFL until he shows he can be relied on.

Cleveland should have upgraded the WR core without question this year and so far they are laying an egg on that front.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:24 pm

They should've freakin' addressed it in Free Agency, knowing perfectly well that they could only fill 3 holes this year. The FA WR's were overpaid, sure, but if you thought there was a good chance you wouldn't take a WR in the first 3 picks...

And Cutler was effectively hitting quite a few mid-to-long range passes when he got hurt. And if your argument is that Forte is so good that he was able to overcome 8 in the box... dude, Richardson.

Did the Saints have Graham yet when they won the SB? I didn't think they did, but too lazy to look it up.

I don't think it's coincidence that the only real home-run pass TD came when McCoy was riding pine (Little TD against Arizona).
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby jta1975 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:30 pm

Hikohadon wrote:They should've freakin' addressed it in Free Agency, knowing perfectly well that they could only fill 3 holes this year. The FA WR's were overpaid, sure, but if you thought there was a good chance you wouldn't take a WR in the first 3 picks...

And Cutler was effectively hitting quite a few mid-to-long range passes when he got hurt. And if your argument is that Forte is so good that he was able to overcome 8 in the box... dude, Richardson.

Did the Saints have Graham yet when they won the SB? I didn't think they did, but too lazy to look it up.

I don't think it's coincidence that the only real home-run pass TD came when McCoy was riding pine (Little TD against Arizona).


Remember Colt actually threw the longest two passes of the season one to Mass and the other in the Rams game to Little down the seem. The Little long TD was a run after catch.

My point about Cutler is the Bears STRUGGLED to score points because there WRS sucked ass and what did they do? They improved the position via trade and the draft.

And the Brees thing is ridiculous, who was stacking 8 in the box against the Saints? Colston,Meecham,Moore,Henderson aren't they all better than Cleveland WRs expect for Little?
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