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Trade up to get TR?

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Would you trade up to ensure drafting TR?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Yes
6
25%
No
18
75%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:10 am

motherscratcher wrote:
scrambler wrote:
Ziner wrote:I fucking hate this team. We just traded up to take an ABSOLUTELY worthless RB and drafted Colt McCoy 2.0.


I've been trying to tell people that RB is a worthless position but no one seems to be buying my take on it.


Oh for fuck sake dude. I'm just reading through this thread and I can't take it any more.

YOU AREN'T TELLING ANYONE ANYTHING THEY DONT KNOW!! THAT EXACT SENTIMENT HAS BEEN PLASTER ACROSS THIS BOARD NO LESS THAN 1,837,583 TIMES BY AT LEAAST 673 DIFFERENT POSTERS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

IT IS NOT A GROUND BREAKING CONCEPT NOR IS IT A UNIQUE THOUGHT!!!

WE ALL FUCKING KNOW!!!!!!!!

OK, sorry about that. I'll read the rest of the thread now.


I'm sorry. I hadn't been on here since October. The Browns are my least favorite of the 3 Cleveland teams. So in the end I don't care all that much but I still hope they do well in the draft. So it was the draft and I came on to look. This was the first football thread I've read since October. I had no idea what was discussed in the off season at all on here. ANd what I read was that most everyone was overjoyed we took this running back. I really wasn't, that's all. Since you've explained that a ton of people agree with me, I'll crawl back and minimally comment on Indians stuff. I stand by what I said about that trade last July too in the minority.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:16 am

Dont let him get to you, he is generally regarded as the biggest knob on the boards.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:18 am

Ziner wrote:FYI: Running Backs are over valued, many teams use non-first round picks and plug them. Investing on in the first round is not wise because they are replaceable and have short careers.

Why doesnt anyone understand this?


You don't say? Huh. That's something I hadn't considered. I'll get back to you after I think about that.

Kinda strange nobody has ever brought that up a million times before.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:20 am

scrambler wrote:
I'm sorry. I hadn't been on here since October. The Browns are my least favorite of the 3 Cleveland teams. So in the end I don't care all that much but I still hope they do well in the draft. So it was the draft and I came on to look. This was the first football thread I've read since October. I had no idea what was discussed in the off season at all on here. ANd what I read was that most everyone was overjoyed we took this running back. I really wasn't, that's all. Since you've explained that a ton of people agree with me, I'll crawl back and minimally comment on Indians stuff. I stand by what I said about that trade last July too in the minority.


It's not you , it's me.

Now I feel like a dick.

Listen to Ziner. He's usually right about stuff. And he's an authority on knobs.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:49 am

motherscratcher wrote:It's not you , it's me.

Now I feel like a dick.

Listen to Ziner. He's usually right about stuff. And he's an authority on knobs.

It's more than a feeling.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:27 pm

Ziner wrote: Why doesnt anyone understand this?


It's not true?

Not as important as QBs, but how many teams could replace their top tier RB with some guy? Jacobs/ Bradshaw had as much to do with the Giants SB run as Manning.

Not to mention the the Browns are trying TO BREAK .500. They missed out on a quality QB, so go to the next position on the field that will help them win games.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:26 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:I know yer just busting balls, but to my point - not saying we should have drafted De Castro, but this whole desperation/panic mode spells impending doom for 2012 and the future of the org. Fat Man walks around all offseason preaching patience, then shoots in his pants TWICE in round 1.


Patience never has a chance against Jammies and Dawg Pound Mike. Walrus drew a line at more wins this season, he obviously means it.


So, if you're after wins, is Brandon Fucking Weeden at #22 the best way to get there?


As an alternative to Colt Fucking McCoy?

Did the importance of the QB position get devalued and I didn't notice?

While I agree that I personally would have waited to see if he got to 37, I don't dislike at all the fact that they picked up Weeden.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:30 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:I know yer just busting balls, but to my point - not saying we should have drafted De Castro, but this whole desperation/panic mode spells impending doom for 2012 and the future of the org. Fat Man walks around all offseason preaching patience, then shoots in his pants TWICE in round 1.


Patience never has a chance against Jammies and Dawg Pound Mike. Walrus drew a line at more wins this season, he obviously means it.


So, if you're after wins, is Brandon Fucking Weeden at #22 the best way to get there?


As an alternative to Colt Fucking McCoy?

Did the importance of the QB position get devalued and I didn't notice?

While I agree that I personally would have waited to see if he got to 37, I don't dislike at all the fact that they picked up Weeden.


I don't dislike him at 37 either. But with all the talent at #22 and the fact that Weeden would have been available today I am baffled at the selection. I mean if you believe Weeden is or will very very soon be an elite QB as opposed to Just Another Middle of the Road Guy, then taking him at 22 makes sense. I guess.

But most everything I have read or heard says that's probably not the case. That there a lot of question marks, along with some good stuff too. But if McCoy <<<<<<<<<Weeden=Christian Ponder, then where does that get us?

So you had better be pretty darn certain the he's The Guy - otherwise you have just started another 32 game experiment. And that's my fear.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:41 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:I know yer just busting balls, but to my point - not saying we should have drafted De Castro, but this whole desperation/panic mode spells impending doom for 2012 and the future of the org. Fat Man walks around all offseason preaching patience, then shoots in his pants TWICE in round 1.


Patience never has a chance against Jammies and Dawg Pound Mike. Walrus drew a line at more wins this season, he obviously means it.


So, if you're after wins, is Brandon Fucking Weeden at #22 the best way to get there?


As an alternative to Colt Fucking McCoy?

Did the importance of the QB position get devalued and I didn't notice?

While I agree that I personally would have waited to see if he got to 37, I don't dislike at all the fact that they picked up Weeden.


I don't dislike him at 37 either. But with all the talent at #22 and the fact that Weeden would have been available today I am baffled at the selection. I mean if you believe Weeden is or will very very soon be an elite QB as opposed to Just Another Middle of the Road Guy, then taking him at 22 makes sense. I guess.

But most everything I have read or heard says that's probably not the case. That there a lot of question marks, along with some good stuff too. But if McCoy <<<<<<<<<Weeden=Christian Ponder, then where does that get us?

So you had better be pretty darn certain the he's The Guy - otherwise you have just started another 32 game experiment. And that's my fear.


Agree with all of that.

If Weeden = Ponder, then it was a terrible pick.

I personally feel that Weeden is a Top 10 pick if he's 23. I think he's a really good passer of the ball. Whether he can translate to an NFL offense, who knows? But his pure physical skills - arm strength, accuracy, height, release point - are all excellent.

I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick. And if you're convinced that he's The Guy (since you're staking your whole career on him), then you don't fuck around and lose the guy at 34 or something (if there's even a remote possibility).

I'm not personally convinced that he will be The Guy, but he's the only guy in this draft after pick #2 that even has a shot.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:55 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:57 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.


Ha! It actually occurred to me when I was writing that last post that you should LOVE this move, because it either finally solves the QB problem or gets Holmgren booted.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:09 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.


Ha! It actually occurred to me when I was writing that last post that you should LOVE this move, because it either finally solves the QB problem or gets Holmgren booted.


Along those lines - this move seems very unlike H&H - not their usual MO. That's originally why I called it a panic move - not because Kendell Wright was gone OMG what do we do, but rather "We absolutely must be competitive this year otherwise Randy will get more involved and the fan base will abandon us so we might need to take more risks in the draft."

And I can't say I blame them. Not a great position to be in, after 9 wins in 2 seasons, so they kinda brought it on themselves. But it still makes me cringe a bit that they're (IMO) trying to accelerate the rebuild. And I know this will sound absolutely crazy, but I was all settled in for another year of suck. I was looking forward to getting our franchise QB in the 2013 draft, and expected all of the building blocks to be in place by using this draft to fill the holes at WR, OL, LB, etc.

Drafting Weeden at 22 AND publicly dumping your starter for the last season and a half suddenly raised expectations to "win now".

And that, sadly, rarely works out well.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:13 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.


Ha! It actually occurred to me when I was writing that last post that you should LOVE this move, because it either finally solves the QB problem or gets Holmgren booted.


Along those lines - this move seems very unlike H&H - not their usual MO. That's originally why I called it a panic move - not because Kendell Wright was gone OMG what do we do, but rather "We absolutely must be competitive this year otherwise Randy will get more involved and the fan base will abandon us so we might need to take more risks in the draft."

And I can't say I blame them. Not a great position to be in, after 9 wins in 2 seasons, so they kinda brought it on themselves. But it still makes me cringe a bit that they're (IMO) trying to accelerate the rebuild. And I know this will sound absolutely crazy, but I was all settled in for another year of suck. I was looking forward to getting our franchise QB in the 2013 draft, and expected all of the building blocks to be in place by using this draft to fill the holes at WR, OL, LB, etc.

Drafting Weeden at 22 AND publicly dumping your starter for the last season and a half suddenly raised expectations to "win now".

And that, sadly, rarely works out well.


It very well might not, but could we realistically expect it to work out well no matter what they did?
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:59 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.


Ha! It actually occurred to me when I was writing that last post that you should LOVE this move, because it either finally solves the QB problem or gets Holmgren booted.


Along those lines - this move seems very unlike H&H - not their usual MO. That's originally why I called it a panic move - not because Kendell Wright was gone OMG what do we do, but rather "We absolutely must be competitive this year otherwise Randy will get more involved and the fan base will abandon us so we might need to take more risks in the draft."

And I can't say I blame them. Not a great position to be in, after 9 wins in 2 seasons, so they kinda brought it on themselves. But it still makes me cringe a bit that they're (IMO) trying to accelerate the rebuild. And I know this will sound absolutely crazy, but I was all settled in for another year of suck. I was looking forward to getting our franchise QB in the 2013 draft, and expected all of the building blocks to be in place by using this draft to fill the holes at WR, OL, LB, etc.

Drafting Weeden at 22 AND publicly dumping your starter for the last season and a half suddenly raised expectations to "win now".

And that, sadly, rarely works out well.


SD:

A starter by default forced edict , is not a starter but in name .

Weeden has the tools , he can throw the damn ball .

The excuses for Colt can now end and we can maybe play some football .

Hopefully .

What a surprise they shopped colt and can't even get a seventh round nibble .

How whack is that ,,

For those who blame Shurmur think about that .


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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:08 pm

If the cost to move from #4 to #3 is low enough that 10,000,000 Browns fans say in unison "I am good with that"...there was not a lot of competition for it.

If someone really wanted TR, a 4, 5, and 7 do not get it done.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby jb » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:14 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
I have to assume that Heckert feels that Weeden is The Guy - meaning capable of taking a good team to the Big Dance - because it was certainly an all-in pick.


Indeed. One of the great things about the pick is that it accelerates the clock on the H&H regime. Either we get to the playoffs by 2013 and build a huge statue of H&H in Public Square, or Walrus can move back to Seattle and dust off his Mother Love Bone CDs and do all the radio shows he wants.


Ha! It actually occurred to me when I was writing that last post that you should LOVE this move, because it either finally solves the QB problem or gets Holmgren booted.


Along those lines - this move seems very unlike H&H - not their usual MO. That's originally why I called it a panic move - not because Kendell Wright was gone OMG what do we do, but rather "We absolutely must be competitive this year otherwise Randy will get more involved and the fan base will abandon us so we might need to take more risks in the draft."

And I can't say I blame them. Not a great position to be in, after 9 wins in 2 seasons, so they kinda brought it on themselves. But it still makes me cringe a bit that they're (IMO) trying to accelerate the rebuild. And I know this will sound absolutely crazy, but I was all settled in for another year of suck. I was looking forward to getting our franchise QB in the 2013 draft, and expected all of the building blocks to be in place by using this draft to fill the holes at WR, OL, LB, etc.

Drafting Weeden at 22 AND publicly dumping your starter for the last season and a half suddenly raised expectations to "win now".

And that, sadly, rarely works out well.



Matt, what about this FO causes you to think they give an iota of rats ass about any of that?

Win now? Bullshit.

Weeden is a hellofa prospect at the quintessential position where we need to improve. They had a big board. They had a plan. They worked it.

Craig Powell this was not.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:14 am

jb wrote:
Matt, what about this FO causes you to think they give an iota of rats ass about any of that?

Win now? Bullshit.

Weeden is a hellofa prospect at the quintessential position where we need to improve. They had a big board. They had a plan. They worked it.

Craig Powell this was not.


Shades of grey. Never said this was a bust or the wrong move. Also said I'm pretty much good with everything and I get what they are trying to do.

But it just seemed so forced, so much tunnel vision, Maybe every time a crappy team drafts for need it feels this way. But I take Randy's comments from late last year plus the Walrus retirement rumors plus trying to put myself in their shoes and being petrified of losing the fan base and.........

Probably just another case of me being too much of a conspiracy theorist. Maybe Bob LoMonte advised on the draft?
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:31 pm

pup wrote:If the cost to move from #4 to #3 is low enough that 10,000,000 Browns fans say in unison "I am good with that"...there was not a lot of competition for it.

If someone really wanted TR, a 4, 5, and 7 do not get it done.


Why not? If the Browns don't offer it and Tampa does, the Vikes still get their man at 5. It makes too much sense to not believe it.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby pup » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:03 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:If the cost to move from #4 to #3 is low enough that 10,000,000 Browns fans say in unison "I am good with that"...there was not a lot of competition for it.

If someone really wanted TR, a 4, 5, and 7 do not get it done.


Why not? If the Browns don't offer it and Tampa does, the Vikes still get their man at 5. It makes too much sense to not believe it.


If TR is TB's guy they have to have, they don't do a 4, 5 and 6?

Come on. The cost itself proves to me there was no other partner and we got Winslowed.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby jta1975 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:09 pm

In my opinion the workout of Kalil was the key to realizing Vikings asked for some picks and Cleveland worked Kalil out to try and fake out Mini that if they traded the 3rd to Tampa they were going to draft their guy or trade down to a team that would.

From that point Cleveland could have went to Mini and leveraged a trade down or picking their guy along with the low round picks to beat what Tampa offered but we will probably never know.

So now the conversation becomes opinion orientated about what you would have done if you were the GM and for me I would have held fast and played the game some more. If I got jumped I would have traded down or just taken Blackmon knowing I wanted Weeden later.

I take Blackmon,Martin,Weeden then trade back into the second using my high 3rd and high 4th and get my OT. Personally even though I am a Claiborne guy if 100% offense was going to be my route I think the team looks so much better with Blackmon,Martin,Weeden,Schwartz (or whichever tackle I got when I traded up into the 2nd) then it does with Richardson,Weeden,Schwartz.

I understand this isn’t fantasy sports but I would have had that plan which still including picking 11 players just like the Browns ended up with but offensively I think I like Blackmon and Martin better than Richardson and Travis Benjamin.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:17 pm

jta1975 wrote:In my opinion the workout of Kalil was the key to realizing Vikings asked for some picks and Cleveland worked Kalil out to try and fake out Mini that if they traded the 3rd to Tampa they were going to draft their guy or trade down to a team that would.

From that point Cleveland could have went to Mini and leveraged a trade down or picking their guy along with the low round picks to beat what Tampa offered but we will probably never know.

So now the conversation becomes opinion orientated about what you would have done if you were the GM and for me I would have held fast and played the game some more. If I got jumped I would have traded down or just taken Blackmon knowing I wanted Weeden later.

I take Blackmon,Martin,Weeden then trade back into the second using my high 3rd and high 4th and get my OT. Personally even though I am a Claiborne guy if 100% offense was going to be my route I think the team looks so much better with Blackmon,Martin,Weeden,Schwartz (or whichever tackle I got when I traded up into the 2nd) then it does with Richardson,Weeden,Schwartz.

I understand this isn’t fantasy sports but I would have had that plan which still including picking 11 players just like the Browns ended up with but offensively I think I like Blackmon and Martin better than Richardson and Travis Benjamin.



SD:

Preach it , they got worked like three dollar hoes .

five picks for two guys when they were in a position to net four to five guys with two picks .

It was as bad a a a team going in for a score and throwing a pick siz and causing a 14 point swing .

The only thing worse was botching the RG3 negotiations .

Fucking amatuers .


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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:27 pm

pup wrote:The cost itself proves to me there was no other partner and we got Winslowed.


Oh wow. I think I just found an even better quote to replace CDT's.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:31 pm

Now here might be something worth bitching about:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/04/mike_holmgren_disputes_that_cl.html

Later, when asked if he had a larger role in this draft, Holmgren gave insight into a discussion that took place in regard to the draft. He did not identify it as the Vikings trade, and a team source said it had nothing to do with that.

"I won’t tell you exactly what it’s about, but this is typical of what might happen,'' he said. "I said, ‘Tom, do you want to do this?’ He said, ‘I don’t think I do. I think it’s too much or too strong or whatever.’ I said, ‘well, we might have to.’ And he goes, ‘well, if we have to, then you’ve got to tell me, because I won’t do it.’ And I said, ‘OK, then I might have to tell you. Fine.'''

He said all's well that ends well.

"But that’s a healthy way to go about it,'' Holmgren said. "No one’s strangling anybody or pushing anybody and we talked about that, and Pat’s kind of the peacemaker in the group. We all have our moments, but it’s real healthy and I trust them a lot.”


It's either J-Rich or its Weeden IYAM.

Either way it doesn't read well to me as something he termed "typical" and its something I'd have rather not been told.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:41 pm

pup wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:If the cost to move from #4 to #3 is low enough that 10,000,000 Browns fans say in unison "I am good with that"...there was not a lot of competition for it.

If someone really wanted TR, a 4, 5, and 7 do not get it done.


Why not? If the Browns don't offer it and Tampa does, the Vikes still get their man at 5. It makes too much sense to not believe it.


If TR is TB's guy they have to have, they don't do a 4, 5 and 6?

Come on. The cost itself proves to me there was no other partner and we got Winslowed.


You could bring that argument all day. What was Tampa's initial offer? What was the Browns? Was Tampa allowed to make a counter offer? How much were they willing to give up? Every team has a stopping point in bidding.

Maybe Tampa was only willing to offer a 4 and 6. They want him, but not enough to offer more. Doesn't take much to trump that, but if you don't do it, no reason the Vikes wouldn't take the Tampa offer.

We don't know.

If your take is that the Browns should've stood pat no matter what and if someone traded up to get Richardson you just take the next guy, then that's fine.

But claiming that you KNOW that he would be there at 4 is ignorant.

Would you be giving Heckert a pass if they stood pat and lost the guy they wanted just b/c you both didn't think that Tampa wouldn't trade up? Didn't think so.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:If the cost to move from #4 to #3 is low enough that 10,000,000 Browns fans say in unison "I am good with that"...there was not a lot of competition for it.

If someone really wanted TR, a 4, 5, and 7 do not get it done.


Why not? If the Browns don't offer it and Tampa does, the Vikes still get their man at 5. It makes too much sense to not believe it.


If TR is TB's guy they have to have, they don't do a 4, 5 and 6?

Come on. The cost itself proves to me there was no other partner and we got Winslowed.


You could bring that argument all day. What was Tampa's initial offer? What was the Browns? Was Tampa allowed to make a counter offer? How much were they willing to give up? Every team has a stopping point in bidding.

Maybe Tampa was only willing to offer a 4 and 6. They want him, but not enough to offer more. Doesn't take much to trump that, but if you don't do it, no reason the Vikes wouldn't take the Tampa offer.

We don't know.

If your take is that the Browns should've stood pat no matter what and if someone traded up to get Richardson you just take the next guy, then that's fine.

But claiming that you KNOW that he would be there at 4 is ignorant.

Would you be giving Heckert a pass if they stood pat and lost the guy they wanted just b/c you both didn't think that Tampa wouldn't trade up? Didn't think so.


Yes I would. Because I would not know they didn't get the guy they wanted.

Of course I don't know there was another offer. Just like nobody knows there was not.

My opinion on the situation is what I have stated. You can think I am wrong. Doesn't mean I am. I can think I am wright. Doesn't mean I am.

They got fleeced. That is my opinion. Good day. :cheers:
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:56 pm

pup wrote:Of course I don't know there was another offer. Just like nobody knows there was not.

My opinion on the situation is what I have stated. You can think I am wrong. Doesn't mean I am. I can think I am wright. Doesn't mean I am.

They got fleeced. That is my opinion. Good day. :cheers:


True. The only "fact" we have is that they got the guy they wanted (well, if you discount RG3).

:cheers:
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:17 pm

JCoz wrote:Now here might be something worth bitching about:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/04/mike_holmgren_disputes_that_cl.html

Later, when asked if he had a larger role in this draft, Holmgren gave insight into a discussion that took place in regard to the draft. He did not identify it as the Vikings trade, and a team source said it had nothing to do with that.

"I won’t tell you exactly what it’s about, but this is typical of what might happen,'' he said. "I said, ‘Tom, do you want to do this?’ He said, ‘I don’t think I do. I think it’s too much or too strong or whatever.’ I said, ‘well, we might have to.’ And he goes, ‘well, if we have to, then you’ve got to tell me, because I won’t do it.’ And I said, ‘OK, then I might have to tell you. Fine.'''

He said all's well that ends well.

"But that’s a healthy way to go about it,'' Holmgren said. "No one’s strangling anybody or pushing anybody and we talked about that, and Pat’s kind of the peacemaker in the group. We all have our moments, but it’s real healthy and I trust them a lot.”


It's either J-Rich or its Weeden IYAM.

Either way it doesn't read well to me as something he termed "typical" and its something I'd have rather not been told.


Jesus fucking Christ in a Smart Car...

::doh::

Couldn't they just give him a ball of yarn to play with?
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Yah....that was pretty much the most disturbing insight to the current brain trust in berea I've ever read. And he said "Typical".

That means we are getting a big ole helping of Mike Holmgren the GM, possibly far beyond the QB situation.

Mike Holmgren was a shitty GM.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:Of course I don't know there was another offer. Just like nobody knows there was not.

My opinion on the situation is what I have stated. You can think I am wrong. Doesn't mean I am. I can think I am wright. Doesn't mean I am.

They got fleeced. That is my opinion. Good day. :cheers:


True. The only "fact" we have is that they got the guy they wanted (well, if you discount RG3).

:cheers:


Just like they did when they got K2.

:cheers:
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:30 pm

pup wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:Of course I don't know there was another offer. Just like nobody knows there was not.

My opinion on the situation is what I have stated. You can think I am wrong. Doesn't mean I am. I can think I am wright. Doesn't mean I am.

They got fleeced. That is my opinion. Good day. :cheers:


True. The only "fact" we have is that they got the guy they wanted (well, if you discount RG3).

:cheers:


Just like they did when they got K2.

:cheers:


Which, of course, means he'll be K2.

Why even bother drafting at all?

:cheers:
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:33 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:Of course I don't know there was another offer. Just like nobody knows there was not.

My opinion on the situation is what I have stated. You can think I am wrong. Doesn't mean I am. I can think I am wright. Doesn't mean I am.

They got fleeced. That is my opinion. Good day. :cheers:


True. The only "fact" we have is that they got the guy they wanted (well, if you discount RG3).

:cheers:


Just like they did when they got K2.

:cheers:


Which, of course, means he'll be K2.

Why even bother drafting at all?

:cheers:


Nope. Just means "getting your guy" does not really mean all that much at the end of the day. Especially when that guy is as useful as tits on a pig to your scheme. Getting your guy is not justification for a good draft.
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Re: Trade up to get TR?

Unread postby Spin » Tue May 01, 2012 4:16 pm

Here's something that just occurred to me today. Maybe it's been brought up.

When Walrus was hiring his GM and coach, he said like himself, they all valued the traditional West Coast Offense.

Since the draft, everyone is wondering how TR will fit in to the traditional WCO, or how it will change the Holmgren System.

Today I remembered who was in the backfield of the ORIGINAL WCO...

Image

Now I wonder if his quote "mishandling" of the Hillis situation was really because he saw right away Hillis was fragile, and nuttier than a fruitcake.

Maybe I'm just searching for positives. But it all makes sense now.
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