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Wide Spread Panic

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Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:57 am

Here's what I think in 1500 words or less: http://bit.ly/Ih3DvQ

Thoughts?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:03 am

Agree 100%. (does this mean I can change my avatar to match yours and hikos? ;-) ;) :wink:)

The real cynic in me pictures Walrus sitting back with a huge slurpee saying out loud, to no one in particular, "So you wanna a QB Randy? Do you? Well, there you fucking go."
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:08 am

I think no pick was an option at 4 that would make sense. This is a QB league and there is no QB to take at 4 that can play football. So we have to take a player that doesn't matter.

Given that, Richardson is fine. The Browns say that others were trying to trade up to 3. ESPN says otherwise. I don't care. The picks they gave up are chump change and don't matter. Would it have been better to save the picks and pick TR at 4? Probably. Does it matter? No.

And then I like the Weeden pick too. I don't give a damn about his age; a good QB plays until he's 38 or more. And besides, are we, in this success starved city, going to complain about only 5 years of franchise QB for pick 22? Really?? Insane. And Hill and others are still on the board. We'll get one of them. Get a RT in 3, or by trading back into round 2 and then we've done exceptionally well.

Basically, it's going to turn out like a good draft. Did H&H maybe give up a few too many options to pull off this draft? Sure. But I don't know that, when all is said and done, that we'd have ended up with any different picks if we hadn't "panicked".
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:10 am

I completely agree. I said the exact same thing last night while drunk and melty. Now I am just hungover and melty.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:14 am

it's been a while...

I agree with your point: they panicked. Some stuff just doesn't add up to think otherwise:

- Heckert said Weeden was 13 on the overall board

- Yet, Wright was their guy at 22?

- So, Kendell Wright was a top 12 player on their board? Please.

Doesn't make sense. They locked in to Wright without a Plan B...which is pretty astonishing. They panicked and grabbed the guy they targeted at 37.

But here's the thing...I actually like Weeden. Obviously like him more at 37, but I think he can be a good NFL QB. The age thing shouldn't factor in much at all, quite frankly.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Brownsnation09 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:18 am

Yeah, that about sums it up. They panicked, plain and simple. You are right about the steelers taking a great lineman a few picks later. I personally wanted Reiff the big OT from Iowa since we have no Right Tackle. This pick is absurd to say the least. A 28 year old QB in the 1st round, still can't believe it. It will finally hit H & H when attendance is even lower next year when Weeden has no WR to throw to and they are on their way to another 3-4 win season. I'm about done with this garbage franchise. They are a joke and nobody is a bigger one than Randy Lerner, just sell the team to someone who cares!
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:23 am

They panicked because Rieff Decastro something something nobody else would've picked Weeden something something. That's all? Really?

I'll be doubling my laughter if Osweiler or Cousins go in the second round tonight.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:25 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:- Yet, Wright was their guy at 22?


If you believe Schefter, whose main source is starting to sound like Brad McCoy.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:27 am

A 28 year old QB in the 1st round, still can't believe it.

I'm not directing this solely to you, because everyone is buzzing on it, but why, honestly, does his age matter?

If he turns out seven good seasons as an NFL QB (he'll be 36 then), why does it matter?

Bitch about 22 vs 37, bitch about his skill level, bitch about not taking a ORT, but I really dont understand the bitch about his age.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:39 am

I dare you to list the quality starting NFL QBs over the age of 30.

Age matters because... well.... it's pretty damn rare for a QB to be good enough to play well after the age of 30.

It was a panic pick to try and keep Jammies healthy, more shit from a shit regime.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:43 am

After being told repeatedly over and over that this is a passing-centric league
After being told repeatedly over and over that the QB is the alpha and omega position and that they will come at a premium
After the Jets trading the draft for Sanchez
After Claussen and Tebow went in the first round
After the Suck for Luck
After the Redskins sold the house for RG3
After the Dolphins took Ryan Fucking Tannehill eighth

And yet we are shocked shocked that the Browns grabbed a QB at 22 that ordinarily would've been there at 37?

I'll say again: Really?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:44 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:A 28 year old QB in the 1st round, still can't believe it.

I'm not directing this solely to you, because everyone is buzzing on it, but why, honestly, does his age matter?

If he turns out seven good seasons as an NFL QB (he'll be 36 then), why does it matter?

Bitch about 22 vs 37, bitch about his skill level, bitch about not taking a ORT, but I really dont understand the bitch about his age.



The age thing is just an easy laugh, a joke, etc. It doesn't have anything to do with anything in actuality.

What does have a lot to do with things is the Browns still have no receivers that will come close to creating the separation that Weeden enjoyed in the French 12. And now if they get one at 37 that means they're sliding down the talent scale on OL.

By taking Weeden when they didn't have to they passed up the OL/WR glaring need. They can't fill both at 37.

I disagree he's an elite QB or that he'll be one here for the next however many years he plays. Part of that is his tendency to panic himself and part of it is the right side of the line is poor and he has no WR weapons. But that's not even the big issue for me.

They can salvage things if they don't shit themselves again and again. Guys like Hill, Massie, Glenn and guys like Devin Wiley, etc can be viable picks. But if you think there's no harm in taking him at 22 when he would have been there at 37 then you need your head checked. Not you DJD, just piggybacking off your post.

But for a team that talks so much about process they sure don't have a very good one in place to deal with guys going off the board they may like.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:51 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:After being told repeatedly over and over that this is a passing-centric league
After being told repeatedly over and over that the QB is the alpha and omega position and that they will come at a premium
After the Jets trading the draft for Sanchez
After Claussen and Tebow went in the first round
After the Suck for Luck
After the Redskins sold the house for RG3
After the Dolphins took Ryan Fucking Tannehill eighth

And yet we are shocked shocked that the Browns grabbed a QB at 22 that ordinarily would've been there at 37?

I'll say again: Really?


I'm arguing with a guy who believes Clausen was a first round QB.

I'll say again: Really?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:57 am

Age matters because... well.... it's pretty damn rare for a QB to be good enough to play well after the age of 30.

Kind of a flimsy argument though, right? Since it's pretty damn rare for a QB to be GOOD in the first place.

By the age of the 30, the Not-Good QBs have moved on to clip-board holding duties or working for State Farm. That skews things.

Also factor in that injuries often derails careers prior to that eldery old age of 30. Weeden played one yr of HS ball and 4 at OSU. He doesn't have a lot of wear on his tires.

But, to play your game, Brady (35 to start season), Manning (36) and Brees (33) have all played at a high level after the age of 30. Farve and Warner played at a high level into their late 30s and 40s. Warren Moon, Rich Gannon...sure there are more I'm not thinking about.

And no, I'm not comparing Weeden to those guys.

Plenty of reasons to dislike the Weeden pick...just don't think age is a major one.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:01 am

The problems with the Weeden pick are so numerous that I can't even list them. The highest of which being that Reiff and DeCastro are still on the board. Great, you drafted Richardson. He can only run to the left because the right side of the line can't open a hole. God forbid Joe Thomas get hurt this year, since he's stayed ridiculously healthy since we drafted him. At least you'd have had a safety net at LT with Reiff.

Ineptitude all around again. If you want to take Richardson, 22 and 37 have to support Richardson. They have to be a OL/WR. Colt McCoy's plenty capable of throwing to Richardson in the flat or handing the ball off. McCoy can't stretch the field, nor can he block.

McPeek is right. They've pigeonholed themselves at 37 because they've severely limited their options on what position they can take. This draft is deep on your pick of WR - physical, talented, fast, etc. Now, they almost have to take a OL at 37. If they don't, that's an enormous hole that they've failed to fill and guys like Richardson, Weeden, and a WR lose some value in the short term because they won't have the time and space to do what they need to do.

I'll faint on the day we ever solve the LB position in the draft.

Is Weeden better than McCoy? Yes. Doesn't mean he was a good pick or the right pick. So many other needs that could have been addressed at 22 and they reached for Weeden.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby comish » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:10 am

So what DO they do at 37 now?

With one pick and two obvious gaping holes to fill do they go

OT: Glenn, Martin

OR

WR: Hill, Randle

A couple of these guys should be there when they pick. Do you fix the line or upgrade a pathetic receiver core?

Of course they could go none of the above and increase the melt to Chernobyl levels
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:10 am

Posted this in another thread, might as well go here:

Even if it wasn't at 22 it seems fairly obvious to me that their intent was to draft him, just at 37 and not 22. They wanted that information out there I guess.

I think there is a little more to this than Panic buttons being pressed, not that I care all that much.

The truth is that these guys are probably all going to get fired or save their asses based on the success or lack of success of one Mr Brandon Weeden, panic or no.

Its an interesting hand they just went all in on.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:13 am

peeker643 wrote:I'm arguing with a guy who believes Clausen was a first round QB.

I'll say again: Really?


For some reason I could've sworn he went around where Tebow did.

Doesn't change that you're pointing out a sequoia while missing the forest. If RGIII is worth three first-rounders plus and Tannehill is worth an eighth, then why is Weeden a reach at 22?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:15 am

comish wrote:So what DO they do at 37 now?

With one pick and two obvious gaping holes to fill do they go

OT: Glenn, Martin

OR

WR: Hill, Randle

A couple of these guys should be there when they pick. Do you fix the line or upgrade a pathetic receiver core?

Of course they could go none of the above and increase the melt to Chernobyl levels


Have to go OL. Not much choice now. You hope a guy like Jeffery, Sanu, or someone falls to the middle area of the round and you can possibly trade up with 67 + 3rd next year or something.
Last edited by skatingtripods on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:17 am

I'm not crazy about the Wheedon pick either, but I keep thinking about how in 2009 Brad Childress was one bad INT away from going to a Super Bowl with a Offense built around a Running back, and a 39 yr Old QB with a Cannon for a arm. Now I am not saying Wheedon is Bret Farve, but with his arm and size he just might have ability to play as well as a 39 yr old Farve in a year or two...
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:19 am

Take Glenn.

Reports that Browns are talking to GB and <gasp!> PHI regarding Colt. Someone on twitter mentioned GB's "young, talented WRs"...too lazy to look up roster, anyone?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:23 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I'm arguing with a guy who believes Clausen was a first round QB.

I'll say again: Really?


For some reason I could've sworn he went around where Tebow did.

Doesn't change that you're pointing out a sequoia while missing the forest. If RGIII is worth three first-rounders plus and Tannehill is worth an eighth, then why is Weeden a reach at 22?



Because he would have been there at 37 Madre. No one in remainder of RD 1 is taking him there. St Louis, Indy, B'More and Denver AREN'T taking him ahead of you tonight. He would have been there. No one's taking a rookie QB 23-36 who is 29yrs old to be a backup or to compete against another guy.

It's nothing against Weeden. I hope he's a HoF guy. But add up everything like they're supposed to do and they made a bad move.

Because you could have improved your OL or gotten him a weapon at 22 and now the quality of the OL or the weapon is lesser than what you could have done.

And there is a difference between reaching and panicking. I have no issue with Weeden as a QB and I agree with those saying they'd rather have Weeden than Tannehill. Fine with that.

I also agree they need to trade up into 2nd or 3rd for some of the quality that's remaining.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:25 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Take Glenn.

Reports that Browns are talking to GB and <gasp!> PHI regarding Colt. Someone on twitter mentioned GB's "young, talented WRs"...too lazy to look up roster, anyone?


This is the other issue, minor as it may be because McCoy has little value anyway. But you just minimized whatever little value he had by not waiting on Weeden til tonight and using the break to deal Colt form the strongest position available to you.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:26 am

Because you could have improved your OL or gotten him a weapon at 22 and now the quality of the OL or the weapon is lesser than what you could have done.

Just want to see where you're at on all this...what if we take Hill or Glenn at 37, at 7pm last night, would you have been okay with (in any order) Richardson, Weeden, and one of Hill or Glenn? Just curious.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:27 am

It looks like, perhaps in panic, the Browns have done a lot of little things wrong.

I still think they've gotten the big things right.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:29 am

peeker643 wrote:Because he would have been there at 37 Madre. No one in remainder of RD 1 is taking him there. St Louis, Indy, B'More and Denver AREN'T taking him ahead of you tonight.


And nobody trades up knowing full well he's not dropping past 37. How many bottles of Christmas Ale would you put up for that bet?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:32 am

Ah, I see, so since HOF QBs managed to play until 35 that means that Wheedon being damn near 30 (seriously two years to aclimate to the league and dude is going to be 30) is fine?

Again, the bar of quality QBs making it past thirty as a damn hard one to reach. Rolling the dice on this old fuck just means that if everything goes right he may be a quality producer at age 31 or 32, with a shelf life of roughly three more years.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:34 am

Maybe it was panic after Wright was gone. I still feel getting rid of the 4th, 5th, and 7th rounders to move up one spot was more panic than picking Weeden. They want badly to improve their offense and the 3 guys once the Griffin trade fell through they were focusing on were Richardson, Wright and Weeden. They wanted all 3 and certainly 2 of the 3, and they would not have been happy with 1 of the 3. That is how after sleeping on it I read the situation. Once Wright went to Tennesse at 20, maybe they did panic with grabbing Weeden not wanting to see him go early in the 2nd. There's a chance they coould have gotten Richardson at 4 keeping those 3 picks and also Weeden at 37 while also getting another starter at 22. Certainly that is possible, but none of us have a crystal ball. The draft is mainly a panic situation for all involved except New England and Pittsburgh.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:39 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Because he would have been there at 37 Madre. No one in remainder of RD 1 is taking him there. St Louis, Indy, B'More and Denver AREN'T taking him ahead of you tonight.


And nobody trades up knowing full well he's not dropping past 37. How many bottles of Christmas Ale would you put up for that bet?


I don't believe so, no. Not when taking a 29 yr old QB as 1st rounder or that high in 2nd (that you moved up for) complicates and muddies your QB situation.

He has to play now for any value to be gotten. He can do that here because his competition is Colt.

That's where his age has an effect IMO. Not in whether he can physically play in 8 years. But it factors into who and where he was going.

Anyone else in love with his ability to beat out there guy right now would have taken already IMO.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:46 am

Yeah, I guess in the end they did panic with both picks I think. Everyone seems convinced Tampa was going to trade there if we didn't to number 3. I don't think you can assume that. After looking at the draft order, Weeden would likely have been there at 37. AS bad as they are, they are still going to get a starter at 37 too though. I think assuming Tampa was definitely going to trade to 3 if we didn't is just as bad as assuming WEeden wasn't going to be there at 37. IN the end, they probably could have gotten Richardson at 4, Weeden at 37 and kept 3 more draft picks.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:52 am

That is the point, Wheedon has to play now to provide value, if it takes him two years to learn the position you are wasting time getting no value from a first round pick that is pushing 30.

I mean fuck, you don't even sign FAs that are pushing 30 and provide no value for more than the league Min.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:58 am

e0y2e3 wrote:That is the point, Wheedon has to play now to provide value, if it takes him two years to learn the position you are wasting time getting no value from a first round pick that is pushing 30.

I mean fuck, you don't even sign FAs that are pushing 30 and provide no value for more than the league Min.


He's playing from day 1 ala Cam Newton and Andy Dalton. He is. Unfortunately he'll see he won't have as good wide receivers in the pros as he had at Oklahoma State!!
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:06 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:They panicked because Rieff Decastro something something nobody else would've picked Weeden something something. That's all? Really?

I'll be doubling my laughter if Osweiler or Cousins go in the second round tonight.


+1000. Right or wrong, the notion that FEWER people will be going to CBS b/c we haven't, yet, gotten an RT is nuts. Can STILL get one people!

And to peek, did you see all the trades in Rd. 1? They weren't playing w/ fire w/ Weeden. Period.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:12 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I dare you to list the quality starting NFL QBs over the age of 30.

Age matters because... well.... it's pretty damn rare for a QB to be good enough to play well after the age of 30.

It was a panic pick to try and keep Jammies healthy, more shit from a shit regime.


Peyton Manning.

Drew Brees.

Tom Brady.

Eli Manning. (Just turned 30, he'll be fine.)

Does Carson Palmer count? He's over 30, but is he playing well?

Philip Rivers. (See Eli.)

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Mike Vick.

Matt Schaub just turned 30.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:28 pm

Off Topic:
And while I'm at it, I cant' stand ESPN's website, with the "Insider" crap you have to pay for.
I just won't do it. Screw 'em.

Sorry. I digress.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:29 pm

BTW: they are also about to try and force a spread QB that ran all no-huddle stuff into a WCO instantly. It's just a shit-for-brains idea.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:32 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:They panicked because Rieff Decastro something something nobody else would've picked Weeden something something. That's all? Really?

I'll be doubling my laughter if Osweiler or Cousins go in the second round tonight.


+1000. Right or wrong, the notion that FEWER people will be going to CBS b/c we haven't, yet, gotten an RT is nuts. Can STILL get one people!

And to peek, did you see all the trades in Rd. 1? They weren't playing w/ fire w/ Weeden. Period.


People go to see a winning football team. No one gives a shit if they're 4-12 and TR is exciting.

Playing with fire my ass. You spell out who's taking him between 23-36 or find me documentation that that was the case (other than from the effing PR staff of the team itself please) and we'll talk.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:00 pm

peeker643 wrote:
JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Take Glenn.

Reports that Browns are talking to GB and <gasp!> PHI regarding Colt. Someone on twitter mentioned GB's "young, talented WRs"...too lazy to look up roster, anyone?


This is the other issue, minor as it may be because McCoy has little value anyway. But you just minimized whatever little value he had by not waiting on Weeden til tonight and using the break to deal Colt form the strongest position available to you.


I agree, and this makes sense.

But, just to play e0y's advocate...suppose they went with OL/WR at 22 and waited for him to drop to 37. This does give them a little more leverage to move Colt overnight. How much more is debatable. I don't think he had much value either way, but he's pretty much worthless now.

But if they did move Colt overnight, they are essentially throwing their cards on the table. At that point theremis absolutely no doubt they want Weeden at 37. If they want to make sure they get him they probably have to move up to prevent anyone else from jumping ahead of them to grab him.

Because at that point they absolutely HAVEnto get him. If they don't, what the fuck are they going to do? Seneca Wallace?

So, if they have to move up a few spots in the 2nd to make sure they get the QB that everyone now knows they are drafting...what does that cost? I don't know, but I suspect it might cost more than whatever shit they got for Colt.

Or maybe that makes no sense at all.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:07 pm

I agree mother, Colts value really should have nothing to do with this it would have been too tricky to pull off a trade for colt while guaranteeing you still get Weeden in the 2nd.

I get the whole didn't want him at 22 thing, but Colt's value before and after is not a reason or important point in this.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:11 pm

JCoz wrote:I agree mother, Colts value really should have nothing to do with this it would have been too tricky to pull off a trade for colt while guaranteeing you still get Weeden in the 2nd.

I get the whole didn't want him at 22 thing, but Colt's value before and after is not a reason or important point in this.



No, it's not important, but it is a factor. And you could have made the deal conditional on the basis of Weeden actually being there at 37.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:17 pm

Its a shame...Colt would be a pretty damn good back-up.

But, since Heckert outright lied to him ("We won't take a QB in the first round), yeah, they gotta move him.

They'll be lucky to get a sixth for him now.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:20 pm

I agree mostly that 22 felt too high when it is unlikely that anyone at least in the back end of the 1st was going to take him. At 29, you draft him to start Day 1 or you don't draft him.

My irritation is mitigated by the fact that one of the guys that I would have liked to see picked at 22 (Cordy Glenn/Massie/Stephen Hill) will still be available at 37, so you just swap the order in which you picked the same players.

And I've done enough fantasy drafts to know that being clever and waiting on a guy you really want b/c you think no one else will take him can bite you in the ass.

At 22, maybe they just figured that there's only one starting quality QB left in the draft, whereas there are several starting quality WR/RT, so the odds of still getting one at 37 were good enough to make sure you got the QB now.

In the end, if Weeden ends up being as good as I think he can be (I would take him over Tannehill straight-up), it doesn't matter to me if they took him at 22 or 37 or 141.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
JCoz wrote:I agree mother, Colts value really should have nothing to do with this it would have been too tricky to pull off a trade for colt while guaranteeing you still get Weeden in the 2nd.

I get the whole didn't want him at 22 thing, but Colt's value before and after is not a reason or important point in this.



No, it's not important, but it is a factor. And you could have made the deal conditional on the basis of Weeden actually being there at 37.


Then you are still making that deal with a team that full well understands that you dont want Colt McCoy.

The difference is negligable. It's just not something worth having in the discussion.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:26 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I agree mostly that 22 felt too high when it is unlikely that anyone at least in the back end of the 1st was going to take him. At 29, you draft him to start Day 1 or you don't draft him.

My irritation is mitigated by the fact that one of the guys that I would have liked to see picked at 22 (Cordy Glenn/Massie/Stephen Hill) will still be available at 37, so you just swap the order in which you picked the same players.

And I've done enough fantasy drafts to know that being clever and waiting on a guy you really want b/c you think no one else will take him can bite you in the ass.

At 22, maybe they just figured that there's only one starting quality QB left in the draft, whereas there are several starting quality WR/RT, so the odds of still getting one at 37 were good enough to make sure you got the QB now.

In the end, if Weeden ends up being as good as I think he can be (I would take him over Tannehill straight-up), it doesn't matter to me if they took him at 22 or 37 or 141.


I think this is why I'm not as upset as I thought I'd be.

Of couse I'm assuming they will get one of Glenn/Hill/Martin at 37, but its not a huge stretch.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:27 pm

JCoz. Is your avatar a picture of SD after the Browns didn't take Tanney last night?
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I agree mostly that 22 felt too high when it is unlikely that anyone at least in the back end of the 1st was going to take him. At 29, you draft him to start Day 1 or you don't draft him.

My irritation is mitigated by the fact that one of the guys that I would have liked to see picked at 22 (Cordy Glenn/Massie/Stephen Hill) will still be available at 37, so you just swap the order in which you picked the same players.

And I've done enough fantasy drafts to know that being clever and waiting on a guy you really want b/c you think no one else will take him can bite you in the ass.

At 22, maybe they just figured that there's only one starting quality QB left in the draft, whereas there are several starting quality WR/RT, so the odds of still getting one at 37 were good enough to make sure you got the QB now.

In the end, if Weeden ends up being as good as I think he can be (I would take him over Tannehill straight-up), it doesn't matter to me if they took him at 22 or 37 or 141.


This is exactly correct.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:28 pm

JCoz wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
JCoz wrote:I agree mother, Colts value really should have nothing to do with this it would have been too tricky to pull off a trade for colt while guaranteeing you still get Weeden in the 2nd.

I get the whole didn't want him at 22 thing, but Colt's value before and after is not a reason or important point in this.



No, it's not important, but it is a factor. And you could have made the deal conditional on the basis of Weeden actually being there at 37.


Then you are still making that deal with a team that full well understands that you dont want Colt McCoy.

The difference is negligable. It's just not something worth having in the discussion.


This. Colt McCoy was worth very little yesterday morning, he's worth very little today. Maybe it's the difference between a 6th and 7th round pick. Maybe not.
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Ah, I see, so since HOF QBs managed to play until 35 that means that Wheedon being damn near 30 (seriously two years to aclimate to the league and dude is going to be 30) is fine?

Again, the bar of quality QBs making it past thirty as a damn hard one to reach. Rolling the dice on this old fuck just means that if everything goes right he may be a quality producer at age 31 or 32, with a shelf life of roughly three more years.


I threw those names out because you asked for QBs that had quality years after the ripe ole age of 30.

But it wasn't my point.

I think you put too much stock in an arbitrary age (30) instead of looking years played in the NFL. As I said, most dont reach your magic # because (a) teams realize they suck well before their 30th birthday and (b) injuries. Its not because they turn into a pumpkin at midnight (age 30).

Weeden's career will be determined by his ability, not because he entered the league at 28 vs 22.

Or maybe I'm just sensitive since I just turned 30 myself :)
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:43 pm

JCoz wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
JCoz wrote:I agree mother, Colts value really should have nothing to do with this it would have been too tricky to pull off a trade for colt while guaranteeing you still get Weeden in the 2nd.

I get the whole didn't want him at 22 thing, but Colt's value before and after is not a reason or important point in this.



No, it's not important, but it is a factor. And you could have made the deal conditional on the basis of Weeden actually being there at 37.


Then you are still making that deal with a team that full well understands that you dont want Colt McCoy.

The difference is negligable. It's just not something worth having in the discussion.


Probably not. It's just way more about how this regime goes about doing things. And this wasn't the ideal way to do things. They publicly said they were eyeing Wright. No idea if that's true. It would be odd if they determined Weeden was the end all/be all solely because Wright was gone. He wasn't the pick at 22 because they wanted Wright but I should be mollified that they got him at 22?

Nope. He'd have been there.

The whole 'They lied to Colt!!!' thing? That's what's not worth discussing at all ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Wide Spread Panic

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:44 pm

peeker643 wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:They panicked because Rieff Decastro something something nobody else would've picked Weeden something something. That's all? Really?

I'll be doubling my laughter if Osweiler or Cousins go in the second round tonight.


+1000. Right or wrong, the notion that FEWER people will be going to CBS b/c we haven't, yet, gotten an RT is nuts. Can STILL get one people!

And to peek, did you see all the trades in Rd. 1? They weren't playing w/ fire w/ Weeden. Period.


People go to see a winning football team. No one gives a shit if they're 4-12 and TR is exciting.

Playing with fire my ass. You spell out who's taking him between 23-36 or find me documentation that that was the case (other than from the effing PR staff of the team itself please) and we'll talk.


Jeebus, you're fixated on the teams between 23-36, totally missing the point that KC, Seattle or someone else (Iggles?) could have moved up ahead of 37. Given the way teams were slinging picks around yesterday, I think that was a possibility.
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