Trade up to get TR?

[mattvan1]

Christ on a Pony



We do not have an elite QB
We do not have a marginal QB
We do not have a QB worth starting in the NFL
We have a guy with a ton of heart, tough as nails, who would make a great backup on 28 NFL teams.

We could draft Richardson and win 6 games
We could draft Blackmon and win 6 games
we could draft Claiborne and win 6 games
We could draft Kalil and win 6 games

We are at least 2 drafts and at the very least a serviceable QB away from sniffing the playoffs. It matters not who is drafted at #4, long as they start and make a positive contribution.

[e0y2e3]

Agree, but trading up will matter.

[leadpipe]

Trading up in 2012 for a running back would qualify as fucking stupid.

Period.

The Super Bowl teams employed a broken Brandon Jacobs and Bradhaw that couldn't average 4 a pop, or let their starting RB walk cause they can pick another off the same scrap heap they got him from, while the losingest of the losers is gonna chase a position that doesn't matter.

Good holy Christ. I refuse to believe they are that god damn dumb, although I've been proven wrong about that before.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Are those of you suggesting TR is only slightly more valuable than Hillis' best suggesting Hillis hits the hole as fast as TR?

...or tht he has TR wheels and shimmy?

<----this dumb ass wants to know

...and I wish just once SD would make a bet to leave if his QB du jour doesn't get picked in the slot he suggests

[peeker643]

Are those of you suggesting TR is only slightly more valuable than Hillis' best suggesting Hillis hits the hole as fast as TR?

...or tht he has TR wheels and shimmy?

<----this dumb ass wants to know

...and I wish just once SD would make a bet to leave if his QB du jour doesn't get picked in the slot he suggests

My point is the numbers don't lie. 1700 yards from scrimmage including 60 catches and 13TDs and it netted them 5-11. How much more do you think TR can put up? And what does it do to improve that 5-11?

[mattvan1]

Agree, but trading up will matter.

uh, ok. From where to where?

From first round #4 to first round #3? I really can't see how. Had we snagged first round #2, well then hell yes. Otherwise, pick guys at your slot and hope you hit on more than you miss. The Browns best bet is draft in numbers. At this point (with Heckert) the numbers are in our favor*



*Owen Marecic aside.

[e0y2e3]

If not for a QB this team cannot afford to trade away a single draft pick

[mattvan1]

If not for a QB this team cannot afford to trade away a single draft pick

Yes. Which is why your previous post confused me. Perhaps I failed to see the irony

[SoulDawg74]

Are those of you suggesting TR is only slightly more valuable than Hillis' best suggesting Hillis hits the hole as fast as TR?

...or tht he has TR wheels and shimmy?

<----this dumb ass wants to know

...and I wish just once SD would make a bet to leave if his QB du jour doesn't get picked in the slot he suggests

SD:

I could probably take you serious if you weren't running around in your Colt Underoos with his Bobblehead shoved up your ass .

At least I realize we need a QB ,

Wanted Sanchez Newton and RG3 , and was willing to settle for Locker and now Tannehill .

But you bring me Lady Quinn and excuses for Colt and you think you can crack .............




SoulDawg

[Hikohadon]

BTW- how did I just hear about the 20 yr old Richardson having a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old only last night?

Kid puts in work all over the place apparently.

Same Mom for both, so we'll need to shelve the Antonio Cromartie jokes for awhile.

If his career lasts as long as LaDainian Tomlinson's or Tony Richardson's there's a shot for a father and son matchup in the future.

So there's that.

And I keep feeling sick about #4 on TR when the best we can hope for is that he puts up a Hillis-like season each year for the next 6-8 years (2010 Hillis). Honestly, the value in Hillis was running, receiving and pass-pro.

Had Hillis and the Browns not gone Kramer vs Kramer in 2011 they'd be getting substantially better instead of restoring their running game to 2010 levels when they went 5-11 with that kind of back.

Awesome.

This is a little disingenuous since Richardson is 1000 times better than Hillis. I would expect him to eclipse Hillis' best year (which will be the only good year in his career) several times. Otherwise he's a failure, cuz Hillis is average.

[Ziner]

Trading up in 2012 for a running back would qualify as fucking stupid.

Period.

Just wanted to give everyone a chance to read this again. I am on e0y's team should they do this.

[motherscratcher]

Trading up in 2012 for a running back would qualify as fucking stupid.

Period.

Just wanted to give everyone a chance to read this again. I am on e0y's team should they do this.

2008 Cards, 2009 Colts, 2011 Giants...

What are 3 teams in the last 5 years that played in a Super Bowl with the #32 ranks rushing offense?

[pup]

Conceptually, I agree. But I'm left with this nagging question: "Then what?"

Then the Browns pick the guy they have on the top of their board.

This is not really that complicated.

A DB who does NOTHING to help the most unwatchable offense in NFL history? Really? Why?

If that is true, what are the odds that DB is at the top of their board?

Christ. Panic about a pick even before it happens?

Plenty of time to kill them starting Friday AM...

B/c Tom loves him some DB's. Also, I don't think they think as the rest of us do. Finally ask yourself this, if TR is off the board, who would the Browns realistically have above Claiborne?

Kalil
Blackmon

And if I told you they could have as many as 7 or 8 guys above him, would that change your mind?

I MIGHT buy Kalil. NFW on Blackmon, not a chance. As for your final statement, damn, those must be AWESOME mushrooms you have there.

So, there is no way, the Browns board looks like this:

1. Luck
2. Griffin
3. Richardson
4. Blackmon
5. Kalil
6. Tannehill
7. Gilmore
8. Claiborne

[rk]

TR, assuming health, etc., strikes me as 1,500-1,650 yds. rushing per yr. guy, w/ additional receiving numbers. I like Hillis, but he's also been in the league 4 yrs. now, too. TR is fresh.

I think TR is a good back, but I'm pretty sure you just projected his ass straight to Canton.

And it's unlikely with that offense that he is going to comp those rushing numbers.

TR is not comparable to Hillis. Hillis was a straight ahead rusher who was capable of being stopped by specific defenses. He also looked for contact which is why he tended to wear down while with the Browns. He had good hands but reports continue to say he was not a capable receiver - just an outlet.

TR is capable of running to contact or getting around it. He is also capable of working as a receiving RB more than just an check down outlet. He has better top end speed than Hillis which should allow the 20-25 yard runs to turn into 40-50 yard runs.

He is also reportedly a great blocker. Hillis didn't get those props but I don't recall ever seeing him miss a block so I'm not entirely sure why.

I think Richardson's low end totals might be similar to Hillis but his total yards and the way he gets them, forcing defenses to spread more at the line, will have more of an effect then most of the people comping him to Hillis are crediting.

And this is coming from the guy who thinks a backfield of Hillis, Brandon Jacobs, Vickers, and Ced Benson would have been a good idea and that the Browns have Blackmon ahead of Richardson so I'm a far cry for hating on Hillis or in love with TR.

[Ziner]

Bills interested in Kalil, anyone interested in trading down to 10 while getting 41?

I'd do it.

I like Floyd better than Blackmon anyway.

[SoulDawg74]

Bills interested in Kalil, anyone interested in trading down to 10 while getting 41?

I'd do it.

I like Floyd better than Blackmon anyway.

SD:

I don't

I have Blackmon with the best hands and route running combo playmaker , followed by Hill who is an elite talent of size and speed .

Floyd doesn't play to his size doesn't have ankle breaking moves like Blackmon , and is shorter and slower than Hill .

Hill's specs are Elite Megatron Moss type combos.


SoulDawg

[Nicastro13]

alot of noise going around (Cabot, Mayock, McShay) this morning that the Browns want the combo of Blackmon at 4 and Martin RB from Boise @ 22. I'm still firmly in the trade down scenario, if Kalil is there Buf @ 10 is the most common team Ive seen. Whats available there, or where they go from there I guess all depends.

[peeker643]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

[comish]

alot of noise going around (Cabot, Mayock, McShay) this morning that the Browns want the combo of Blackmon at 4 and Martin RB from Boise @ 22. I'm still firmly in the trade down scenario, if Kalil is there Buf @ 10 is the most common team Ive seen. Whats available there, or where they go from there I guess all depends.

This would be A-Ok with me. I can't get past the logic that if you are going to run an offense that throws the ball a great deal of the time you need one or two dudes who can actually catch the ball a great deal of the time.

I think Blackmon can do that.

You then get a solid RB prospect that will very likely start on day 1 since we have basically nothing at that position either---no offence to Montario (AKA Glass Joe). Two guaranteed Day 1 starters that upgrade a pitiful offense is a good Thursday Night of work IMO.

I don't think I've ever seen a draft where the options for the Browns are so diverse and the opinions of the fans are just as diverse as the options....most years there seems to be one or two unified stances, not this time.

My popcorn is ready

[pod2dawg]

Did someone vote to move up from #4? .........

[rk]

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

If selected he will make a significant difference in 2012-13 over what Hillis would have produced in 2012-13.

The difference between a system back who excels at every aspect of play the RB is responsible in the system and a non-system back who only excelled at a single responsibility is significant. Not necessarily in ways that show up in statistics.

It's like comparing Marshall Faulk to Ricky Williams circa 1999. Either guy in the other system would reduce the production of that offense. At the end of the year maybe their production is similar but the effect they had on their respective teams' w/l record was due to the system worked with them in the fold.

The RB position is not plug-and-play. Some guys work better in one system than in another.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

To be fair, the Browns went 5-8 in games that Hillis got at least 10 carries, and a few of those losses swung on 1 play. You're marginalizing his value.

[JCoz]

Bills interested in Kalil, anyone interested in trading down to 10 while getting 41?

I'd do it.

I like Floyd better than Blackmon anyway.

I'd love that, but they'd need to give me more than #41 to do it.

[SoulDawg74]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

SD:

If you have the LT then receiver becomes the next important position "if " you have the QB .

If the Browns are too chicken to draft Tannehill , then they should pick Blackmon if they can't trade down.

Lamar Miller will do everything TR will do , or Pead or martin , but we run a WCO with guys who can't throw and guys who can't catch .

Fix one of the problems at least.


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

To be fair, the Browns went 5-8 in games that Hillis got at least 10 carries, and a few of those losses swung on 1 play. You're marginalizing his value.

Sweet. MOTHERLODE!!!

I'm marginalizing his value while I disengenuously over value him.

I love this fucking place.

[Larvell Blanks]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

To be fair, the Browns went 5-8 in games that Hillis got at least 10 carries, and a few of those losses swung on 1 play. You're marginalizing his value.

Sweet. MOTHERLODE!!!

I'm marginalizing his value while I disengenuously over value him.

I love this fucking place.

You mean you can't see the increase in wins there?

[peeker643]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

To be fair, the Browns went 5-8 in games that Hillis got at least 10 carries, and a few of those losses swung on 1 play. You're marginalizing his value.

Sweet. MOTHERLODE!!!

I'm marginalizing his value while I disengenuously over value him.

I love this fucking place.

You mean you can't see the increase in wins there?

Sure I can. Probably like 13-3 w/Richardson over that 5-11 with Hillis given the system differences and the fact Hillis lost 5 fumbles.

I can't wait til tonight is done.

Half the people hating it, half rationalizing and justifying it, all of them resetting things after they settle down to state how it can all be salvaged/improved/affected by the next couple days.

So great....

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Are those of you suggesting TR is only slightly more valuable than Hillis' best suggesting Hillis hits the hole as fast as TR?

...or tht he has TR wheels and shimmy?

<----this dumb ass wants to know

...and I wish just once SD would make a bet to leave if his QB du jour doesn't get picked in the slot he suggests

My point is the numbers don't lie. 1700 yards from scrimmage including 60 catches and 13TDs and it netted them 5-11. How much more do you think TR can put up? And what does it do to improve that 5-11?

...and I think the difference between making those #'s mean something or not is in the lack of hands of the WR's

Please don't just blame the QB....

We have fielded the worst fuking group of handsless fuking a-holes in the NFL since the After Birth

Little himself could have made a monufukinmgmental difference in the offense if he catches just half of what he dropped last season

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

To be fair, the Browns went 5-8 in games that Hillis got at least 10 carries, and a few of those losses swung on 1 play. You're marginalizing his value.

Sweet. MOTHERLODE!!!

I'm marginalizing his value while I disengenuously over value him.

I love this fucking place.

Your contention was that even a great season from a RB only led to a 5-11 season. I'm just pointing out that that particular 5-11 was pretty damn close to being 8-5 in the games that said RB played, and that your example of a RB being superfluous is not accurate. I wasn't arguing with the "RB is overvalued" premise.

Yes I want TR, but purely for selfish reasons - I want to be entertained.

[docstank]

Heard a strange rumor from someone close to the action that Sanchez is coming to cleveland. The Jets targeting TR as well, but I don't think the #4 pick is involved in the Sanchez deal...I don't believe any of this nonsense but the source is close to the action so thought I would relay.

[CleSportsTruth]

Heard a strange rumor from someone close to the action that Sanchez is coming to cleveland. The Jets targeting TR as well, but I don't think the #4 pick is involved in the Sanchez deal...I don't believe any of this nonsense but the source is close to the action so thought I would relay.

You know, I don't undeerestimate the Browns' stupidity, but even for them, this would break new ground in pure STUPID. So, like you, I'm pretty sure it's BS.

[Hikohadon]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

A. Name me a player that will make a bigger difference. They'll all make next to no difference while we don't have a QB (and - NO - that's doesn't mean take a project QB at #4). TR probably makes the BIGGEST difference, whatever that may be.

B. Taking names out of it, if TR averages at least what that RB in 2010 did, then it will help. They might still be 5-11 if Colt is starting, but that won't be b/c TR was no help at all.

C. That RB from 2010 will never have a year like that again. TR probably will have several better ones.

If you can't fix the QB this year (which is likely), then at least build up the pieces that will surround him once you finally get him.

[gotribe31]

Heard a strange rumor from someone close to the action that Sanchez is coming to cleveland. The Jets targeting TR as well, but I don't think the #4 pick is involved in the Sanchez deal...I don't believe any of this nonsense but the source is close to the action so thought I would relay.

So...your source lives in Berea? Or NYC? I guess living in Berea is technically close to the action, right?

[docstank]

From our side of the tracks. I continue to assume rubbish on this one but he was adamant.

[Hikohadon]

Heard a strange rumor from someone close to the action that Sanchez is coming to cleveland. The Jets targeting TR as well, but I don't think the #4 pick is involved in the Sanchez deal...I don't believe any of this nonsense but the source is close to the action so thought I would relay.

I think we should add this to the "Unacceptable Results" thread.

[e0y2e3]

Official, Browns trade up to #3 per Schefter

[Cerebral_DownTime]

woopity fuckin dooo.

[mattvan1]

Jesus.

Take the fucking names out of the equation, shall we?
A RB catches 60 balls for 500 yards, blocks, rushes for 1200 yards and scores 13TDs.

That's terrific production regardless of the name.

The team went 5-11.

I'm fine with drafting Richardson. I really am. But stop telling me he's going to make a huge difference over what Hil.....err.... that back up there made in 2010.

I'm not being disengenuous when I say I can't help but think this RB issue is somewhat self-inflicted given they fucked uo the Hardesty pick and let that 2010 producer walk away because his feelings were hurt.

Go ahead and take he back. He'll be a fine player. And he'll make next to no difference.

A. Name me a player that will make a bigger difference. They'll all make next to no difference while we don't have a QB (and - NO - that's doesn't mean take a project QB at #4). TR probably makes the BIGGEST difference, whatever that may be.

B. Taking names out of it, if TR averages at least what that RB in 2010 did, then it will help. They might still be 5-11 if Colt is starting, but that won't be b/c TR was no help at all.

C. That RB from 2010 will never have a year like that again. TR probably will have several better ones.

If you can't fix the QB this year (which is likely), then at least build up the pieces that will surround him once you finally get him.

The Battle of the Alter Egos

Coming soon to a theater near you

Look, when you guys with the same avatar start bickering it's even more annoying then when you're in lockstep agreement.

Anyway, enjoy the drafts and the draft

[gotribe31]

Unreal. I'll withold final judgement till I hear what they got, but if they gave up anything of substance to move up 1 pick, I'll flip my shit. Esp after being so gutless with the #2 pick.

[justmebd]

I guess it's a moot point now. I just hope we didn't overpay.

[TouchEmAllTime]

Supposedly flipping 3 and 4, and giving Minny a 4th, 5th and 7th.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

I'm hearing it's only a 4th 5th and 7th to move up. If so, Minnesota really didn't want that pick.

[Huge0126]

I'll take it. We still have 22, 37, 67 and our picks in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th.

[OldDawg]

We are not done trading up. Mark my words.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Hillis never ran away from anyone like TR will.....

Just sayin'

[noles1]

Was pissed at first and then saw what we gave up.

LOVE it.

Still keep the good picks.

Think of it this way the 4th is ATL's basically Owen Maricic, Jordan Cameron and Carlton Mitchell to be sure on Trent... I'm ok with that.

And I agree, we aren't done moving up.

DE at #22 and then sneak into NE's for someone else.

[Erie Warrior]

DE at #22 and then sneak into NE's for someone else.

WR at 22

OL at 36

[Ziner]

Fuck this franchise. Seriously. Fucking morons in charge.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

They really must want Tannehill.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Fuck this franchise. Seriously. Fucking morons in charge.

Y R U UPSET?