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Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby furls » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:48 pm

Simon's dad could still beat Simon's ass.

That said, there was another tOSU player that broke all the weightroom records a couple of years ago (bout 5 years ago actually). To my knowledge, he still holds the bench record at 630. His name..... Mike Kudla.

Kudla turned heads at the combine with his 45 (ish) 225 reps (tied the record at the time) and was eerily similar to Simon in size and speed. That said, Simon is much more of a playmaker than Kudla, but they are both similar in that their size does not present a celing in the NCAA, but it is an issue in the NFL.

I think Simon will have a better NFL career than Kudla (Undrafted FA by the Steelers who didn't stick) and I think his motor will allow him to overcome, but the two are very similar and it drives home the point that strength alone is not enough.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby dmiles » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:31 am

Functionally speaking are the guys with the top bench press reps the guys who turn out to be the best players on Sunday? Has anyone ever drawn up that correlation to compare how many guys in say the top 10% on reps looking at being a sure-fire HOFer? I guess in a way you can use it to eliminate a prospect, but you certainly can't put too much value on it. Furls, I am not disagreeing with you, just conventional wisdom. Speaking from point of a dad who took hitting instruction upon his shoulders, if I'd depended "conventional wisdom" or groupthink I am certain my kids would be throwing around lacrosse balls at this point.

I also get the fact that if you throw a few hundred kids into a testing cycle it's pretty hard to get too fancy in the types of activities you can test. You do have to come up with some measurable standards, where the test is easily administered and of course this is as straightforward as it gets. I've been at the assumption that moving as much weight as possible over small rep range (5 or less) is much better for an athlete that a high rep activity, but I guess this tests muscular endurance as well so you might see who doesn't peter out in the 4th quarter.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:48 am

e0y2e3 wrote:And Simon's dad is terrifying.


Lol.

Yep, hey I am no shrimp, and can walk around Y-town with just small arms, BUT you know what position my son plays for Mr. Simon in Little League football?

......anywhere Mr. Simon wants him to. ;)
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:04 am

furls wrote:Simon's dad could still beat Simon's ass.

That said, there was another tOSU player that broke all the weightroom records a couple of years ago (bout 5 years ago actually). To my knowledge, he still holds the bench record at 630. His name..... Mike Kudla.

Kudla turned heads at the combine with his 45 (ish) 225 reps (tied the record at the time) and was eerily similar to Simon in size and speed. That said, Simon is much more of a playmaker than Kudla, but they are both similar in that their size does not present a celing in the NCAA, but it is an issue in the NFL.

I think Simon will have a better NFL career than Kudla (Undrafted FA by the Steelers who didn't stick) and I think his motor will allow him to overcome, but the two are very similar and it drives home the point that strength alone is not enough.



I think simon is a far better athlete and player than Kudla was. I think he plays on sunday. Just saying schemes and fit may well prevent the nexus he needs to go in round one.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:39 am

As Yogi said, it's hard to make predictions...especially about the future...but I think there's agreement that Simon is probably not a 1st-rounder. But who knows...some smart, perennial playoff team, drafting late in the first, and more concerned with drafting football players than prototypes, may take a flyer on him. I just look forward to watching his senior year, and for his sake, I'm sorry there won't be a chance for a conference title or a bowl game showcase. He pays for the selfishness and bad decisions of others.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:43 am

danwismar wrote: He pays for the selfishness and bad decisions of others.



Perhaps one day he will be across the line from Peezy and offer payback. :pop:
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:50 am

For those who haven't seen Simon's dad...

Image
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby pup » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:16 pm

Where? All I see is John, a lady and a grizzly bear.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:39 pm

The size of that man is ridiculous.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby furls » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:37 pm

You figure Simon has about a 17-18 inch neck, which is pretty big, now look at how tiny it is compared to his dad's. His dad probably has about 23-25inch neck.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:57 pm

I'm an 18 and a 1/2 and I can tell you, my neck is as big as that dudes wrist.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:00 pm

dmiles wrote:Functionally speaking are the guys with the top bench press reps the guys who turn out to be the best players on Sunday? Has anyone ever drawn up that correlation to compare how many guys in say the top 10% on reps looking at being a sure-fire HOFer? I guess in a way you can use it to eliminate a prospect, but you certainly can't put too much value on it. Furls, I am not disagreeing with you, just conventional wisdom. Speaking from point of a dad who took hitting instruction upon his shoulders, if I'd depended "conventional wisdom" or groupthink I am certain my kids would be throwing around lacrosse balls at this point.

I also get the fact that if you throw a few hundred kids into a testing cycle it's pretty hard to get too fancy in the types of activities you can test. You do have to come up with some measurable standards, where the test is easily administered and of course this is as straightforward as it gets. I've been at the assumption that moving as much weight as possible over small rep range (5 or less) is much better for an athlete that a high rep activity, but I guess this tests muscular endurance as well so you might see who doesn't peter out in the 4th quarter.


You are overlapping about six things here. Max reps is FAR more important than single rep max. That said, body type and arm length becomes an issue in figuring out just what max rep means (I maxed at 25 and it sucked) because of my long arms. Frankly, if you are going to try and use weights to figure out what is what you should just go with what someone hang cleans for a set of five.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby dmiles » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:07 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
You are overlapping about six things here. Max reps is FAR more important than single rep max. That said, body type and arm length becomes an issue in figuring out just what max rep means (I maxed at 25 and it sucked) because of my long arms. Frankly, if you are going to try and use weights to figure out what is what you should just go with what someone hang cleans for a set of five.


Christ I am all over the map. I haven't been the same since those Dorito Taco's came out. (gross BTW)

Now is the reason max reps more important because it's an indicator of overall conditioning? I am asking, I really don't know. When I think about holding the block for a 3-4 count, or a d-lineman controlling the blocker as the play is developing, very low rep max bench probably doesn't apply.

I know that we are biasing our summer lifting towards baseball (even if he plays football this last year) and we definitely want to go max deadlift for 5 reps or less, but it's a totally different sport. The swing is over in the same time frame it takes to pull weight off the ground so I would think moving 500 lbs for 5 reps is more valuable than moving 300 for 15 reps at least for that activity (swinging a bat)
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:15 pm

!!! my back is ruined because of deadlifting, if you make him do it make him do it right, Bad Technique will kill him.

And 5 reps is a happy medium, but max reps covers the combination of strength and endurance.

IMO, cleans, lunges, etc are far... far... more important.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:37 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:!!! my back is ruined because of deadlifting, if you make him do it make him do it right, Bad Technique will kill him.

And 5 reps is a happy medium, but max reps covers the combination of strength and endurance.

IMO, cleans, lunges, etc are far... far... more important.


Agree 100%

Deadlifts are in vogue for reasons that escape me. I mean I get the fundamental aspect (lift heavy things) but don't believe it translates well on the young adult level.

Squats, on the other hand, WHEN DONE WITH PROPER TECHNIQUE, work not only the lower back, hamstrings, and gluts, but more importantly hip flexors - which benefit all athletes - football and baseball alike.

The issue, which I have seen at my kids' HS over and over again, is poor technique and a complete lack of supervision/understanding/teaching from the staff. Kids end up cracking vertebrae because they want to max out with really bad form.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:44 pm

Or safety squating. I safety squated and broke a national record dead lifting. My back...... it's almost as bad as my shoulders which are almost as bad as my ankle.

Biggest thing I can ever tell dads, WATCH how they teach your kids to lift.

matt is dead nuts on.
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Re: Spring Game (recruiting and observations)

Unread postby dmiles » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:38 pm

One thing we do which is perhaps different is drop the bar when it gets past the knee. (bumpers). We were pretty lucky at the old HS in San Diego because Playfast did all the weight stuff and they would use our facility for NFL combine training and/or summer training. So the kids would get to see guys trying to either make it to the next level or stay relevant if they were in the league. Anyway the good stuff they taught allowed him to pull at a much higher clip than most other kids when we moved to FLA.

We mainly do DL at the house but when they are training with a team they do whatever the coach has going on, and there aren't any bumper weights so no Oly lifting but they do squat but I don't think they watch everyone's form. Seems deep squatting is preferred. Interestingly I've never been a "touch my toes" type guy even when in HS doing three sports I just didn't stretch much, and one time I got on a kick doing some deep squatting, and suddenly at 35 and fat as hell at 255 I could bend over and put my palms flat on the ground. Something about being under load and low (plus dynamically balancing) stretches you out big time.
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