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Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

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Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby jfiling » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:38 am

Expected to sign a multi-year contract later today.

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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby ChoccoIndians » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:45 am

Great to here he is signing on again hopefully, sets a standard among the players as well.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:57 am

Yes. We kept him for the same amount of time as we already had him. But at a controlled cost. Which we will do nothing with the money saved on those years.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:16 am

Maybe they can lower beer prices with the saved Santana dollars.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:50 am

Sounds like they have a club option for his 1st FA year at least.

Whole thing is weird...a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows Peek who knows a guy who knows a guy who's kid plays hockey with Antonetti's friend's kid told me that the Dolans were going to sell the team and wouldn't be handing out any more contracts. Not sure what this Carlos and Asdrubal contracts mean. Dolans are cheap though, that I know for sure.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:17 am

gotribe31 wrote:Sounds like they have a club option for his 1st FA year at least.

Whole thing is weird...a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows Peek who knows a guy who knows a guy who's kid plays hockey with Antonetti's friend's kid told me that the Dolans were going to sell the team and wouldn't be handing out any more contracts. Not sure what this Carlos and Asdrubal contracts mean. Dolans are cheap though, that I know for sure.


You realize all they do in these is absorb risk for the sake of saving a few dollars at the end, right?

These deals were significant (and feel free to point out if my memory has painted a rosier picture than it really was) when you were buying out multiple free agent years. Simply getting a signature on a dotted line for the same amount of time as you are already required to stay is not exactly earth shattering.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:33 am

Probably just means Santana's agent is easy to deal with. Kind of glad that they only got his first FA year. I still think the guy's a future DH.

Surprised at the timing of this. Still had a while before he was arb-eligible.

Side note, while I'm looking at Cot's, anyone else find it hilarious that Shelley Duncan isn't eligible for FA until 2016 when he'd be 36.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:54 am

skatingtripods wrote:Side note, while I'm looking at Cot's, anyone else find it hilarious that Shelley Duncan isn't eligible for FA until 2016 when he'd be 36.



Gives him a few seasons to pile up those 35HR and 110RBI seasons before he looks to break the bank.

Gonna be there tonight?

I'll bring the lighter fluid, you bring the matches. We'll set ourselves on fire for warmth and if Kotchman doesn't get a ball out of the infield.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:24 pm

peeker643 wrote:Gives him a few seasons to pile up those 35HR and 110RBI seasons before he looks to break the bank.

Gonna be there tonight?

I'll bring the lighter fluid, you bring the matches. We'll set ourselves on fire for warmth and if Kotchman doesn't get a ball out of the infield.


Wasn't planning on going, but that sounds like a fun time.

I'll let you know later.

Where are you sitting/are you using your press pass? Evidently not if you need to keep warm, but press box would be a great place to set yourself on fire. Not that any of them would look up from their Sudoku/Words with Friends to notice.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:29 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Gives him a few seasons to pile up those 35HR and 110RBI seasons before he looks to break the bank.

Gonna be there tonight?

I'll bring the lighter fluid, you bring the matches. We'll set ourselves on fire for warmth and if Kotchman doesn't get a ball out of the infield.


Wasn't planning on going, but that sounds like a fun time.

I'll let you know later.

Where are you sitting/are you using your press pass? Evidently not if you need to keep warm, but press box would be a great place to set yourself on fire. Not that any of them would look up from their Sudoku/Words with Friends to notice.


The press box must be a pretty dull place.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:52 pm

pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:Sounds like they have a club option for his 1st FA year at least.

Whole thing is weird...a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows Peek who knows a guy who knows a guy who's kid plays hockey with Antonetti's friend's kid told me that the Dolans were going to sell the team and wouldn't be handing out any more contracts. Not sure what this Carlos and Asdrubal contracts mean. Dolans are cheap though, that I know for sure.


You realize all they do in these is absorb risk for the sake of saving a few dollars at the end, right?

These deals were significant (and feel free to point out if my memory has painted a rosier picture than it really was) when you were buying out multiple free agent years. Simply getting a signature on a dotted line for the same amount of time as you are already required to stay is not exactly earth shattering.


I agree with half of what you said. I definitely would have preferred both Santana and Asdrubal to have at least another club option or two. That's where you really have a chance to save money and insure yourself against the risk of injury/ineffectiveness. But I think could potentially save more $$ than you think. In the 10 or so min I've spent researching it, I've actually found enough for what could be a decent article so I'm going to put a little more work in and develop something in-depth, but the bottom line is that the extension both secures Santana's financial future and gives the Indians a nice little discount if he continues to produce in an upward curve.

He gets hurt, steps on his crank or both (aka, Pronks it), then the Indians lose $$. But I think they could save a significant chunk of change if Santana is who we all hope he is.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:15 pm

I am very interested in what you find. Because I hate these deals as they appear to me now.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:22 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Gives him a few seasons to pile up those 35HR and 110RBI seasons before he looks to break the bank.

Gonna be there tonight?

I'll bring the lighter fluid, you bring the matches. We'll set ourselves on fire for warmth and if Kotchman doesn't get a ball out of the infield.


Wasn't planning on going, but that sounds like a fun time.

I'll let you know later.

Where are you sitting/are you using your press pass? Evidently not if you need to keep warm, but press box would be a great place to set yourself on fire. Not that any of them would look up from their Sudoku/Words with Friends to notice.


The press box must be a pretty dull place.


It's a fucking tomb.

But it is warm and there are soft drinks and food. And you can dip up there too. Although I quit and no longer do that. But I might start again because I miss it terribly.

But to answer Adam, I'm not in press box tonight. Doubt I'll be on the wall though because Danielle is already texting me about how many blankets she's bringing and how many layers she's wearing.

I'll give her this: she effing loves baseball and going down there. Her solemn vow is to never leave a game before it ends. And it all started with that GD opener in '07 where we wiped snow off the seats.

And she broke up with her useless, PoS boyfriend a few weeks back!!!!! Win!!
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:42 pm

If Santana stays at catcher, the club option FA year could be worth $15 million by itself. Hell even if he doesn't, it could be worth $12.5 million as that's what Victor signed for at age 31 (4/$50 million). Factoring in the massive inflation of MLB contracts, its not quite an Evan Longoria steal, but its a good deal for the Indians.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:51 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Gives him a few seasons to pile up those 35HR and 110RBI seasons before he looks to break the bank.

Gonna be there tonight?

I'll bring the lighter fluid, you bring the matches. We'll set ourselves on fire for warmth and if Kotchman doesn't get a ball out of the infield.


Wasn't planning on going, but that sounds like a fun time.

I'll let you know later.

Where are you sitting/are you using your press pass? Evidently not if you need to keep warm, but press box would be a great place to set yourself on fire. Not that any of them would look up from their Sudoku/Words with Friends to notice.


The press box must be a pretty dull place.


It's a fucking tomb.

But it is warm and there are soft drinks and food. And you can dip up there too. Although I quit and no longer do that. But I might start again because I miss it terribly.

But to answer Adam, I'm not in press box tonight. Doubt I'll be on the wall though because Danielle is already texting me about how many blankets she's bringing and how many layers she's wearing.

I'll give her this: she effing loves baseball and going down there. Her solemn vow is to never leave a game before it ends. And it all started with that GD opener in '07 where we wiped snow off the seats.

And she broke up with her useless, PoS boyfriend a few weeks back!!!!! Win!!


If you need to encourage her to break up with other useless, PoS boyfriends in the future, just send CTD to talk to the young lads. That will be the end of the relationship pretty fast, I'm guessing.

Or tell Mother that the little prick is stonewalling you, and he has to be taught what happens when he f's a stranger in the ass.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Who was it earlier this year that, in the interest of clicks and Sam Amico-ing a story, wrote about the Indians being for sale since no players were signed beyond this season?

Gotta be a retraction or a mea culpa coming, no?

Or did I miss the sale of the club?

Amateur Hour.

Pauly C actually references something to this effect in his latest that just went up: http://bit.ly/Hq6TAa
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:But to answer Adam, I'm not in press box tonight. Doubt I'll be on the wall though because Danielle is already texting me about how many blankets she's bringing and how many layers she's wearing.

I'll give her this: she effing loves baseball and going down there. Her solemn vow is to never leave a game before it ends. And it all started with that GD opener in '07 where we wiped snow off the seats.

And she broke up with her useless, PoS boyfriend a few weeks back!!!!! Win!!


If I ever have a son, I want him to find a girl like Danielle. Maybe a few inches taller, but with her love of baseball.

It's been pouring sleet here off and on since 9 am. I'm not even sure that they're going to get tonight's game in.

Can I use my press pass to park for free in the garage?
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:41 pm

pup wrote:I am very interested in what you find. Because I hate these deals as they appear to me now.


This biggest factor in their favor, I think, is that if you go year-by-year you have to consider two sources of increasing salaries: (1) the increasing salary arising from the player's own performance and service time, and (2) the effect of baseball-wide salary inflation. These pre-arbitration multiyear contracts attempt to estimate (with a modest discount to the team, because they are accepting the risk of injury) the player's future salary under #1. However, my perception is that these deals do not fully compensate the player for point #2. In other words, if this contract gives Santana $10M in 2015 when it's his third arbitration year, perhaps that's a reasonable estimate for what a run-producing catcher in his third year of arbitration eligibility would get now. (Indeed, Napoli's contract this year is for about $9.5M). However, that estimate ignores the fact that, when Santana would actually be eligible for that third year of arb-eligibility in 2015, he'll also have the benefit of 3 years of MLB-wide salary inflation in his favor.

The other benefit, of course, is the option of the free agent year. You can't underrate how important that discounted year is. I don't think there's been a report as to what the value of the option is, but suppose it's in the neighborhood of $12M. That's Santana's age 30 year (thanks Paul C for doing the work). Now, if you went year-by-year with Santana, if you wanted to eventually have his age 30 season, you'd have to buy it in a package with his age 31-34 seasons, when you'd be paying market rate for an ever-increasing risk of injury and decline. It's much better to have that age 30 year tacked onto a pre-arb deal, rather than needing to pay market rate as the first year of a FA contract.

In other news, BP signed a 6 year, $75.M extension. Time to bring out this emoticon again? :dead: (My take on that contract? Yes, BP is a good player, and yes, it was a mistake to let him go. But he's not that good.)
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:03 pm

In other news, BP signed a 6 year, $75.M extension. Time to bring out this emoticon again? :dead: (My take on that contract? Yes, BP is a good player, and yes, it was a mistake to let him go. But he's not that good.)



What do you mean? 6-year deals for 31-year old players with a career OPS+ of 96 that play a position of, historically, high injury risk always work out...


For comparison, Jhonny Peralta's career OPS+ is 102 and we couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:19 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:But to answer Adam, I'm not in press box tonight. Doubt I'll be on the wall though because Danielle is already texting me about how many blankets she's bringing and how many layers she's wearing.

I'll give her this: she effing loves baseball and going down there. Her solemn vow is to never leave a game before it ends. And it all started with that GD opener in '07 where we wiped snow off the seats.

And she broke up with her useless, PoS boyfriend a few weeks back!!!!! Win!!


If I ever have a son, I want him to find a girl like Danielle. Maybe a few inches taller, but with her love of baseball.

It's been pouring sleet here off and on since 9 am. I'm not even sure that they're going to get tonight's game in.

Can I use my press pass to park for free in the garage?


That I don't know, about the parking. I never did ask that or figure it out. DM Castrovince??
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:26 pm

peeker643 wrote:That I don't know, about the parking. I never did ask that or figure it out. DM Castrovince??


He doesn't follow me on Twitter. I don't Tweet anything of value more often than not. Although, Vinnie Pestano still follows me from when I DMed him with my Q&A request.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:That I don't know, about the parking. I never did ask that or figure it out. DM Castrovince??


He doesn't follow me on Twitter. I don't Tweet anything of value more often than not. Although, Vinnie Pestano still follows me from when I DMed him with my Q&A request.


I emailed Kelly at STO. Let ya know her response.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:47 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:

What do you mean? 6-year deals for 31-year old players with a career OPS+ of 96 that play a position of, historically, high injury risk always work out...


That's a better way of saying exactly what I wanted to say.
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Re: Carlos Santana is sticking around for a while

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 pm

pup wrote:I am very interested in what you find. Because I hate these deals as they appear to me now.


The article is up on the front page. Bottom line, if Santana keeps getting better, Indians saved a few million in arbitration and get him one year longer than they would have. If he doesn't improve at all, they pretty much break even. If he collapses, they lose a few $$ but not enough to be hamstrung by the deal. I think its a good deal for both sides.
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