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TRADE

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TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:36 pm

@JonHeymanCBS #indians, #angels on verge of abreu trade
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:38 pm

Can he still play a decent left though
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:49 pm

Interesting. Wonder what's on the table. Angels need a back of the rotation innings eater, and we have plenty of those. Zachary McAllister maybe? Was hoping we'd trade for CJ Cron from the Angels, but Abreu is a better OF option than anything we have internally right now.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:54 pm

This front office gets stupider by the minute.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 pm

Jon Morosi ‏ @jonmorosi Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Trevor Crowe was pulled from a minor league game today for the purposes of a trade, source says. As of now, deal is not done. #Indians
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:01 pm

Jon Morosi ‏ @jonmorosi Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me #Indians are close to trading outfielder Trevor Crowe. Not clear if he is in the Bobby Abreu deal
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:29 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:This front office gets stupider by the minute.


Whys that, exactly? You don't even know who's involved in the proposed deal.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:47 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:This front office gets stupider by the minute.


Whys that, exactly? You don't even know who's involved in the proposed deal.


They spent all offseason signing 47 washed up bums, sentimentally kept Sizemore and Fauxsto, and are forced to trade for another old man on the downswing who can't play defense anymore. They should have just signed Josh Willingham.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:52 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:This front office gets stupider by the minute.


Whys that, exactly? You don't even know who's involved in the proposed deal.


They spent all offseason signing 47 washed up bums, sentimentally kept Sizemore and Fauxsto, and are forced to trade for another old man on the downswing who can't play defense anymore. They should have just signed Josh Willingham.


Are you saying you wouldn't trade Trevor Crowe and change for Abreu?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:56 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:This front office gets stupider by the minute.


Whys that, exactly? You don't even know who's involved in the proposed deal.


They spent all offseason signing 47 washed up bums, sentimentally kept Sizemore and Fauxsto, and are forced to trade for another old man on the downswing who can't play defense anymore. They should have just signed Josh Willingham.


Are you saying you wouldn't trade Trevor Crowe and change for Abreu?


If that is so hard to believe, you have to wonder why someone would trade Abreu for Crowe and change?

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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:08 pm

Because they just gave Pujols $200MM and are cutting payroll?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:36 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Because they just gave Pujols $200MM and are cutting payroll?


If the best they can get is Crowe and something....

I guess we will see how much of the $9M they are picking up.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:38 pm

No idea what to think about this. Clearly we're trying to milk the last drop out of Abreu, which I'm perfectly fine with.

If it does in fact become a platoon situation, Abreu was .255/.366/.400/.766 off RHP last year. If he can repeat a .366 OBP against RHP this year, I'd be absolutely thrilled. 60 BB in 418 PA works for me.

He's a veteran presence who works pitchers and still has a little bit of pop. He was a serviceable player for the first three months of last year going 81/280 (.289). His second half was a miserable 46/222 (.207).

Low-risk, high-reward. If he sucks, he sucks. If he contributes, from the looks of the names being thrown about, it's a big win.

Obviously the deal still has to get done, but it's interesting.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:43 pm

He had 21 SB last year with a OPS+ of 104. If you steal 21 bases you can play LF. I'd much rather see him out there than Sloth.

/Cost is Trevor Crowe? Please. Do this.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Govbarney » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:57 pm

Is this really a improvement over Shelly Duncan?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:18 am

Govbarney wrote:Is this really a improvement over Shelly Duncan?


that depends.

He's better than regular Shelly Duncan.

Hes worse than extrapolated MVP Shelly Duncan.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:29 am

Being better than Shells Duncan should not be the criteria. And marginally better is kind of pointless.

Like trading for Colt McCoy when you have Seneca Wallace.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:46 am

pup wrote:Being better than Shells Duncan should not be the criteria. And marginally better is kind of pointless.

Like trading for Colt McCoy when you have Seneca Wallace.


Maybe it shouldn't be the criteria, but the simple fact is that right now, that's the criteria. So why complain about trying to improve? How is getting better pointless? Why is trying to improve the team a bad thing? Should they tank for the draft?

Abreu, even at this stage of his career, is a better offensive and defensive option than Shelly Duncan in LF. If they can get him on the cheap, why not do it?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:04 am

gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:Being better than Shells Duncan should not be the criteria. And marginally better is kind of pointless.

Like trading for Colt McCoy when you have Seneca Wallace.


Maybe it shouldn't be the criteria, but the simple fact is that right now, that's the criteria. So why complain about trying to improve? How is getting better pointless? Why is trying to improve the team a bad thing? Should they tank for the draft?

Abreu, even at this stage of his career, is a better offensive and defensive option than Shelly Duncan in LF. If they can get him on the cheap, why not do it?


Because, as marginally better as he may or may not be, the second half of last year shows he may not be better at all. With the spring he is having (numbers wise obviously haven't seen him) it kind of drives that point home. So unless Angels are picking up all of his salary, you have a team that is going to scream limited financial resources dumping some of those into this player.

Teams no longer fear bobby abreu as a hitter, which means his one skill (drawing walks) that he has left in his bag will be limited by guys not nibbling.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:06 am

pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:Being better than Shells Duncan should not be the criteria. And marginally better is kind of pointless.

Like trading for Colt McCoy when you have Seneca Wallace.


Maybe it shouldn't be the criteria, but the simple fact is that right now, that's the criteria. So why complain about trying to improve? How is getting better pointless? Why is trying to improve the team a bad thing? Should they tank for the draft?

Abreu, even at this stage of his career, is a better offensive and defensive option than Shelly Duncan in LF. If they can get him on the cheap, why not do it?


Because, as marginally better as he may or may not be, the second half of last year shows he may not be better at all. With the spring he is having (numbers wise obviously haven't seen him) it kind of drives that point home. So unless Angels are picking up all of his salary, you have a team that is going to scream limited financial resources dumping some of those into this player.

Teams no longer fear bobby abreu as a hitter, which means his one skill (drawing walks) that he has left in his bag will be limited by guys not nibbling.


I saw him last week when the Angels played the Indians. He started in RF, was moving around well. He looked fine. Spring numbers mean nothing, especially for vets.

If they give up Crowe and the Angels pick up $6m in salary, how can this be a bad trade? Even if he crashes and burns, who cares? How is trying to improve the team a bad thing?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby andrew6586 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:26 am

Take it for what it's worth. He adds depth and has a great eye at the plate. If he can still get on base a ton then it is worth it, especially if Anaheim eats most of his salary. This does however make us limited in centerfield. Brantly is presumably the only guy on the roster that can play the position (Donald is still too innexperienced). Overall though, the trade helps us I think. Abreu can still get on base and adds depth. He may not be what he was 5 years ago but he will give us good at bats and knows the position. This does however add another left-handed bat to our roster (this has to be a record).
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:53 am

gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
pup wrote:Being better than Shells Duncan should not be the criteria. And marginally better is kind of pointless.

Like trading for Colt McCoy when you have Seneca Wallace.


Maybe it shouldn't be the criteria, but the simple fact is that right now, that's the criteria. So why complain about trying to improve? How is getting better pointless? Why is trying to improve the team a bad thing? Should they tank for the draft?

Abreu, even at this stage of his career, is a better offensive and defensive option than Shelly Duncan in LF. If they can get him on the cheap, why not do it?


Because, as marginally better as he may or may not be, the second half of last year shows he may not be better at all. With the spring he is having (numbers wise obviously haven't seen him) it kind of drives that point home. So unless Angels are picking up all of his salary, you have a team that is going to scream limited financial resources dumping some of those into this player.

Teams no longer fear bobby abreu as a hitter, which means his one skill (drawing walks) that he has left in his bag will be limited by guys not nibbling.


I saw him last week when the Angels played the Indians. He started in RF, was moving around well. He looked fine. Spring numbers mean nothing, especially for vets.

If they give up Crowe and the Angels pick up $6m in salary, how can this be a bad trade? Even if he crashes and burns, who cares? How is trying to improve the team a bad thing?


I appreciate the data of you seeing him and saying he is moving around well. I know Spring numbers are pointless, which is why I put the caveat in my post.

Because if they pick up 6, that leaves us on the hook for 3. And if he is as washed up as he appeared in the 2nd half of last year and his numbers say he could be this Spring...that is $3M that cannot go to improve if need be at the deadline.

If he comes in and hits .220 and his walk rate shits the bed, is that worth any number of dollars? Just because it isn't a lot of money, if he is a disaster he is a disaster.

And since we are still waiting for this deal, my guess is Angels don't want to pay very much of that salary. So at what point is his salary a poor fit?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:09 am

Can't wait for the day Shells Duncan is a defensive replacement in LF. :lmfao:

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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Jumbo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:17 am

motherscratcher wrote:
Govbarney wrote:Is this really a improvement over Shelly Duncan?


that depends.

He's better than regular Shelly Duncan.

Hes worse than extrapolated MVP Shelly Duncan.


This.

It seems like they didn't like what they saw when they worked out Vlad, and are now looking at the next option. Trevor Crowe for Abreu + $6M of his salary? It's low risk, modest reward. Provided he can play reasonable defense (not a certainty, admittedly) he'll probably still get on base enough to be not terrible.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Jumbo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:22 am

pup wrote:Because if they pick up 6, that leaves us on the hook for 3. And if he is as washed up as he appeared in the 2nd half of last year and his numbers say he could be this Spring...that is $3M that cannot go to improve if need be at the deadline.

If he comes in and hits .220 and his walk rate shits the bed, is that worth any number of dollars? Just because it isn't a lot of money, if he is a disaster he is a disaster.


Sure. But I think the Indians are right in thinking that they have to take a few risks to even be in a position to add at the deadline. Abreu seems as reasonable a risk as any.

Without being certain how he'd fit in on the roster, I think a Duncan/Abreu platoon in left certainly wouldn't be exciting, but I definitely feel better about that platoon than Duncan playing every day.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:59 am

This is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and replacing young shit "Crowe" for Old shit.
All indications are this guy cant play LF anymore, and he hits no better then Duncan. I suppose if they are worried about Hafner's health he makes a little sense as a back up DH, but you cant tell me that this is the best trade option for a Left Fielder. If Vlad is option F, Abreu is option D-.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:02 am

The overall reaction here is hilarious. A no cost walk machine that hit well for half of last year is all of the sudden something to be outraged about?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:03 am

Govbarney wrote:This is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and replacing young shit "Crowe" for Old shit.
All indications are this guy cant play LF anymore, and he hits no better then Duncan. I suppose if they are worried about Hafner's health he makes a little sense as a back up DH, but you cant tell me that this is the best trade option for a Left Fielder. If Vlad is option F, Abreu is option D-.


Except for the part where Al just posted that he watched him play a few days ago and he looks like he can still play in the outfield.

And saying he can't hit better than Duncan at this point is a bold statement.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:04 am

WAIT GUYS, THE INDIANS MIGHT SPEND $3MM TO IMPROVE THE TEAM, HOW DARE THEY!
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:17 am

Govbarney wrote:This is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and replacing young shit "Crowe" for Old shit.
All indications are this guy cant play LF anymore, and he hits no better then Duncan. I suppose if they are worried about Hafner's health he makes a little sense as a back up DH, but you cant tell me that this is the best trade option for a Left Fielder. If Vlad is option F, Abreu is option D-.



I don't think "all indications" point to that. He played 28 games in the OF last year on a team with Tori Hunter, Vernon Wells and a good young CF in Peter Bourjos. There simply wasn't a need to play in the OF, and like somebody already posted, he stole over 20 bases last year. You can't do that if you can't run anymore. And the guy was a gold glove outfielder, he didn't forget how to play the position.

And saying he hits no better than Duncan is laughable.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:23 am

He's been a below average RF for a couple of years. That does not mean he can't play a passable LF. He's a veteran, professional hitter, a known quantity with 16 years of MLB experience. He played in 142 games last year, the LEAST since his rookie year in 1997. Yes, he's old. Yes, he's trending downward. But can you really sit there and tell me that he's going to be WORSE than Shelly Duncan? Can you really sit there and say that he's not worth Trevor Crowe and a few million of Larry Dolan's dollars? As it stands right now, this is a low-cost option that may improve our OF defense and our offense. If they're trading Austin Adams for him, then we can bitch.

Gov, you say that there are better options out there available via trade. Care to offer up these options?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:26 am

I like him because he makes pitchers work and gets on base at a good clip.

No power and has lost his pace.

Though he can still steal a bag.

Having a horrid spring though
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:27 am

Indians fans: "Larry Dolan is cheap!!!" wait "Larry Dolan is wasting money!!!"
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Jumbo » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:18 am

Heyman just tweeted that the Abreu deal fell apart.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby idoctribefan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:21 am

.353 OBP for Abreu last year.

Tribe hitters who had a higher OBP last year:
Josh Tomlin
Jim Thome
Jason Donald
Travis Hafner

Yeah he's been bad this spring but the fact that he has 50 PA's must mean he feels fine.

Give him a few million dollars of Rob Hernandez's money and play him against RHP's. Also a nice option for pinch-hitter in the ninth inning of a one-run game.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:25 am

Jumbo wrote:Heyman just tweeted that the Abreu deal fell apart.


Probably about the money.

Well I guess we can all rest easy that Duncan will be patrolling left field and we didn't give away the valuable Trevor Crowe.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:30 am

Had to be about how much money LAA would cover. Ah well.

Liked the idea. We'll probably wind up with Johnny Damon! :thud:
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:01 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:The overall reaction here is hilarious. A no cost walk machine that hit well for half of last year is all of the sudden something to be outraged about?


No. Getting to the point where they have to attempt to make this move out of desperation is something to be outraged about.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:04 pm

Well, you can thank Grady for that.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:04 pm

gotribe31 wrote:He's been a below average RF for a couple of years. That does not mean he can't play a passable LF. He's a veteran, professional hitter, a known quantity with 16 years of MLB experience. He played in 142 games last year, the LEAST since his rookie year in 1997. Yes, he's old. Yes, he's trending downward. But can you really sit there and tell me that he's going to be WORSE than Shelly Duncan? Can you really sit there and say that he's not worth Trevor Crowe and a few million of Larry Dolan's dollars? As it stands right now, this is a low-cost option that may improve our OF defense and our offense. If they're trading Austin Adams for him, then we can bitch.

Gov, you say that there are better options out there available via trade. Care to offer up these options?


I am frustrated , fact is with our inability to absorb payroll, Abreu very likely may be the best trade option. Though it appears now the deal is dead based on what LA was willing to pay off.

Question: Is Damon's Defense any worse then Abreu's, or is he just type cast as a DH at this point in his career?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:10 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Well, you can thank Grady for that.


I can thank a front office that wasn't wise enough to walk away from spending $5 million on Grady Sizemore and though paying $7.5 to a below average pitcher who turned out to falsify his identity was a good move.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:01 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Indians fans: "Larry Dolan is cheap!!!" wait "Larry Dolan is wasting money!!!"


e0...when did you start taking up the good fight for anyone but NBA players?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:19 pm

I've long maintained that the Indians are the best run org in Cleveland.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:22 pm

This trade in itself wasn't bad under the circumstances. But the whole offseason is a perfect example of why you should just pay the going rate for competent talent (Willingham) instead of trying to get cute. Isn't this our (self-inflicted) "window"? We've been scrambling from day one because we won't commit to more than a year. Certain players cost multiple years for a reason.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:44 pm

Govbarney wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:He's been a below average RF for a couple of years. That does not mean he can't play a passable LF. He's a veteran, professional hitter, a known quantity with 16 years of MLB experience. He played in 142 games last year, the LEAST since his rookie year in 1997. Yes, he's old. Yes, he's trending downward. But can you really sit there and tell me that he's going to be WORSE than Shelly Duncan? Can you really sit there and say that he's not worth Trevor Crowe and a few million of Larry Dolan's dollars? As it stands right now, this is a low-cost option that may improve our OF defense and our offense. If they're trading Austin Adams for him, then we can bitch.

Gov, you say that there are better options out there available via trade. Care to offer up these options?


I am frustrated , fact is with our inability to absorb payroll, Abreu very likely may be the best trade option. Though it appears now the deal is dead based on what LA was willing to pay off.

Question: Is Damon's Defense any worse then Abreu's, or is he just type cast as a DH at this point in his career?


Yes. His arm was a noodle even on its best day while Abreu's was always plus. Neither are plus runners anymore, but at least Abreu will only cost you one bease by allowing a hit to fall in, whereas Damon will let the guy get to 2nd and any runners advance as well.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Spin » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:22 pm

Govbarney wrote:Is this really a improvement over Shelly Duncan?


Doesn't matter. We need bodies out there, with all three starters missing time last year.

The big question is, is he better than Crowe? In two years are either of them going to be playing for the Tribe?
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:16 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I've long maintained that the Indians are the best run org in Cleveland.


As I have maintained you are the smartest person I have quoted in this post.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Thank Christ they're so strong on the corners offensively that they can absorb this loss of a guy whose 5 years past his prime yet clearly an upgrade over the guy they'll start in LF in 6 days.
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Re: TRADE

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:34 pm

If they give up Crowe and the Angels pick up $6m in salary, how can this be a bad trade? Even if he crashes and burns, who cares? How is trying to improve the team a bad thing?


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Re: TRADE

Unread postby TribeinLA » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:23 am

I agree with EYE. People call the Dolans cheap and now they're spending too much. Trevor Crowe...is he worth THAT much or is Abreu just THAT bad to some of you? I, too, saw the Angels/Indians game two weeks ago and he looked good to me. He'll draw some walks and as someone else said...this is all because Grady Sizemore has osteoperosis or something. We should benefit from this. Trevor Crowe...Jesus, I am sick of hearing the name. Sometimes, you just have to believe the Dolans, Ant, Shap, Manny, and crew know more than any of us.
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