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Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

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Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:15 pm

Not too surprising.

http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=208459&article=9955451

I would've like to have seen them just give Chiz the everyday 3B job, but sending him to AAA is at least defensible. It's definitely better than keeping him up and not letting him play.

Also: Chiz certainly isn't too old to go back to AAA for part of a season. He'll be back sometime this year.

LaPorta, OTOH, is done as a major league regular. At best, he'll bounce between the minors and majors for a few years, sign on as an NRI somewhere, and be 2017's version of Casey Blake.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:26 pm

Just fucking terrific.

I am certain that this season is THE season that 32 yr old fucking offensive sieves like Shelley Duncan Jack Fucking Hannahan turn their shitty offensive careers around.

And I'm sure Duncan is going to be just tremendous defensively too.

You've got to be fucking kidding me. Seriously.

You earn every loss you get with shit like that in your lineup.

And save the 'ground ball staff, gotta have Hannahan' bullshit. Tons of groundball pitchers in the game that aren't looking at Hannahan in their lineup. I don't usually get all sideways when young kids are sent down, but this is fucking stupid.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:31 pm

Sabathia career SLG = .370. LaPorta career SLG = .397.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:17 pm

Jumbo wrote: At best, he'll bounce between the minors and majors for a few years, sign on as an NRI somewhere, and be 2017's version of Casey Blake.


Casey Blake is infinitely better than Laporta.

Would like to see Chiz stick, but it's not like he was going to get this team over .500.

Par for the course.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:18 pm

Love how everyone puts Chisenhall on some fucking pedestal like he's the next big thing.

Cat raked off A ball pitching and had a pedestrian .772 OPS in AA. One decent half season in Columbus.

Is he better than Hannahan right now? No.

Will he be better than Hannahan in the future? Probably. But as of today, he's not.

Guy looked like shit in ST and didn't work on what he needed to work on, according to pretty much every coach and front office member in Goodyear. Didn't fix plate discipline, didn't have good at bats.

At least you know you'll get Hannahan's defense. Anything that keeps Shelley Duncan from fielding the ball in LF makes me happy. Hannahan does that better than Chisenhall.

Maybe we should be more concerned that Lonnie Chisenhall couldn't beat Jack Hannahan out for the job. Since, Hannahan sucks so much as some of you have expressed.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby idoctribefan » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:35 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Love how everyone puts Chisenhall on some fucking pedestal like he's the next big thing.

Maybe we should be more concerned that Lonnie Chisenhall couldn't beat Jack Hannahan out for the job. Since, Hannahan sucks so much as some of you have expressed.


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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:59 pm

Lonnie Chisenhall has a solid major league future, but (YMMV) this isn't a melt-worthy decision like Juan Gone over Grady or whatever.

A resigned shrug seems more appropriate in this case than a shaken fist.

Casey Blake is infinitely better than Laporta.


I think you missed the point. Laporta's best case scenario is that he bounces around a few years and magically figures things out in his early 30s. Kind of like how Casey Blake did. I didn't say I'd bet on it happening.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:05 pm

I think the reason some of us expressed the fact Jack Hanahan stinks, is cause it's so.

Look, fine he "won" the job cause Chiz couldn't win it, and believe me, I'm not one who is sure he's the next big thing.

But make no mistake about it, you're running a bad player out there. We KNOW what Jack Hanahan's future is. At least Lonnie has a shred of hope - and again, I'm not "prospect guy"

So, you run Hanny out there, along with Shelly.....and you haven't even factored in Hafner's sub yet.

As I mentioned over the winter - just too many questions - and we now have the answers to two of them already 1. Sizemore 2. 3rd base (one in which several on here assured me that Jack H. wouldn't be starting).
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby aclayman » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:12 pm

If you're gonna have a "bad" player filling in at third again, it might as well be one of the best defensive third baseman in the game. I know nobody gives a rat's ass about defense in this day and age. But if the guy posts an OBP around the league average (as he did last season) and snags anything and everything hit his way, I'm hardly in riot mode. Of course Chiz projects better, but if we're serious about being a playoff contender now, it's hard to say he would be an upgrade at this moment. Give me the glove.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:24 pm

I'd rather have Donald at 3b than either of these flacid bats.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:34 pm

aclayman wrote:If you're gonna have a "bad" player filling in at third again, it might as well be one of the best defensive third baseman in the game. I know nobody gives a rat's ass about defense in this day and age. But if the guy posts an OBP around the league average (as he did last season) and snags anything and everything hit his way, I'm hardly in riot mode. Of course Chiz projects better, but if we're serious about being a playoff contender now, it's hard to say he would be an upgrade at this moment. Give me the glove.


That's a good point, and I don't necessarily disagree.

But another way to look at it would be...for the Indians to be contenders, our young position players like Kipnis, Santana, and Chiz need to be what we all hope they are. If we are serious about contending this year, Chiz needs to be on that corner producing at a major league level.

If we have a bad Chiz there, or if we have Hannahan there we are not contending.

Running Hannahan out there is like waiving the white flag before the season starts.

EDIT: I'm not saying that's the way I look at it necessarily. I don't think any single player is as important as all that.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:45 pm

motherscratcher wrote:But another way to look at it would be...for the Indians to be contenders, our young position players like Kipnis, Santana, and Chiz need to be what we all hope they are. If we are serious about contending this year, Chiz needs to be on that corner producing at a major league level.



^^^^

The entire point.

They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.

Just.

Aren't.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:52 pm

peeker643 wrote:They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.


Nor would they with Chiz. But, it's easier to handle when he's young and unproven, and bad.

Wait, isn't this there 2 year window? Isn't that why they dealt White and Pomz?
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:54 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
peeker643 wrote:They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.


Nor would they with Chiz probably. But, it's easier to handle when he's young and unproven, and bad.

Wait, isn't this there 2 year window? Isn't that why they dealt White and Pomz?


probably is the difference
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:00 pm

motherscratcher wrote:They would win 150 games with Chiz probably.

probably is the difference


Clearly. Doesn't make it true.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:12 pm

peeker643 wrote:^^^^

The entire point.

They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.

Just.

Aren't.


The Tigers aren't flawless. They have the three biggest names in the division, sure. They have a closer due for regression, no middle relief with Alburquerque on the shelf for a couple months, and the lineup surrounding Cecil and Miggy is nothing special.

Why can't Shelley put up the .750 OPS Delmon Young will put up playing everyday?

Kipnis + Santana can match one of Fielder/Cabrera

Cabrera + Choo could, possibly, match the other.

We don't have a comp for Avila, Boesch, or Peralta, but we also don't know how they'll produce this year. Avila certainly seems to get it, but his BABip of .366 last year is completely unsustainable. He should be closer to .275 or so. Peralta probably overachieved last year and all projections this year put him in the .265-.275 range. Boesch is a wild card.

Austin Jackson's an offensive black hole, but a +++ defender.

But our middle relief is sound and our rotations virtually cancel out 3-5. Fister's also due for regression based on the defense behind him and his unsustainable WHIP.

It'll definitely take some luck and some overachieving from some of our guys, but it's not impossible. If we stay healthy, there's no reason we can't make some noise, even with Hannahan and Duncan getting a lot of PT.

This isn't just blind optimism. I've had a lot of time to look things over. The Tigers are flawed. Maybe not as flawed as we are, but they're not untouchable.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:22 pm

I don't wanna argue about it and I'm not knee-jerking.

But if you're banking on ifs and nuts that include Shelley Duncan and Jack Hannahan figuring out the offensive side of the game at 32 yrs old you're wishing harder than I can help to wish.

There's a valid reason they're not guys with 500+ ABs in a season. Add that to Hafner's impending injury and Sizemore's continued absence and this frustrates me to no end.

They NEEDED Chiz to perform beyond what Hannahan is capable of.

They better pitch their collective balls off.

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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:45 pm

peeker643 wrote:They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.

The Indians are not contending unless about 15 different things fall exactly into place. To name a few:
>> Youngsters Kipnis, Santana, Chiz and Brantley performing better than they've ever performed at the major-league level
>> Hafner being healthy at least most of the season
>> Choo batting close to .300
>> Sizemore returning, and being at least a shadow of his former self
>> ACab having a season close to last season's
>> Ubaldo winning at least a dozen games
>> Chris Perez improving, and if he doesn't, Vinnie being a capable closer
>> Masterson being at least as good as he was last season
The Cavs have to play almost perfect ball to win. Likewise, the Indians have to have everything fall into place to contend, otherwise we're doomed to watching another barely .500 season with a lackluster offense.
Just my two cents.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:19 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:^^^^

The entire point.

They're just not contending in the division w/ Hannahan and Duncan getting 750ABs.

Just.

Aren't.


The Tigers aren't flawless. They have the three biggest names in the division, sure. They have a closer due for regression, no middle relief with Alburquerque on the shelf for a couple months, and the lineup surrounding Cecil and Miggy is nothing special.

Why can't Shelley put up the .750 OPS Delmon Young will put up playing everyday?

Kipnis + Santana can match one of Fielder/Cabrera

Cabrera + Choo could, possibly, match the other.

We don't have a comp for Avila, Boesch, or Peralta, but we also don't know how they'll produce this year. Avila certainly seems to get it, but his BABip of .366 last year is completely unsustainable. He should be closer to .275 or so. Peralta probably overachieved last year and all projections this year put him in the .265-.275 range. Boesch is a wild card.

Austin Jackson's an offensive black hole, but a +++ defender.

But our middle relief is sound and our rotations virtually cancel out 3-5. Fister's also due for regression based on the defense behind him and his unsustainable WHIP.

It'll definitely take some luck and some overachieving from some of our guys, but it's not impossible. If we stay healthy, there's no reason we can't make some noise, even with Hannahan and Duncan getting a lot of PT.

This isn't just blind optimism. I've had a lot of time to look things over. The Tigers are flawed. Maybe not as flawed as we are, but they're not untouchable.


But Adam, look where all your "ifs" are here.

Kipnis plus Santana can match one of either Fielder or Cabrera...maybe. But the locks here are that Cabrera's gonna hit at a hall of fame level - just like every year. And Fielda is going to rake as well - like every year. You HOPE Kipnis will continue to develop. It LOOKS like he's capable. Same with Santana taking the next step. But you're comparing them to guys that are A. Better and B. In the clubhouse.

Cabrera and Choo COULD match the other, but again, the onus is on Choo and Cabrera, cause the other you could set your watch to.

You've mentioned many times how Delmon Young stinks and is overrated, if I'm not mistaken. So that's the goal you hope your left fielder can attain? MAYBE he can be as good as Delmon Young. (Although much worse defensively)

Look, nobody is saying the Tigers are some sort of dynasty. I personally, aren't even comparing the Tribe to them, really. Just looking at winning teams of the past, and how many are running the Duncan's and Hanahans of this world out there. If you're starting a season healthy with two spots already given to those guys, Christ, you'd better stay healthy, cause you're at about your hump limit if you're gonna win.

And it's great Jack Hanahan is a great defender. But as was mentioned last year, there's a ton of guys that could be great defenders at third that never make it to the show, cause they couldn't hit. This I'll grant Tribe fans, a great defensive 3rd baseman that can't hit, is better than a bad defensive third baseman that can't hit. I'd choose neither. This point is exasberated by the fact you've already got a left fielder that can't field OR hit, and you've got a DH who hasn't been healthy for about 6 years.

They drafted poorly for years and it shows. But it's time to see if you got yourself some PLAYAS. Cause at the end of the day, that's how you win this game. Not interested in rubbing the hell out of a rabbitt's foot for a year and hoping all the stars align, cause most of the time they don't. And then repeating the same GD thing next year. When you get playas, things seem to happen for you quite a bit easier. Chisenthall should be right in there with Kipnis and Santana ILO. To be held back behind Jack Hanahan.....not sure what situation begs that you look at your young third baseman than to be behind that guy.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:38 pm

There's nothing else that they can do but hope. Illitch can spend against his other business entities. The Tigers don't have to make money for him to spend it.

I try to rationalize the Indians contending any way that I can because I can't stand the thought of finishing 15 games back.

There are legitimate issues with the Tigers. They're not the magnitude that ours are, but they're there.

Dream teams have fallen flat before. We just have to hope this is the year that one does.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby ArtGold » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:06 am

I'd agree that losing both LaPorta and Chisenhall is a bad initial development for the Tribe. However, Chisenhall hasn't earned his spot at 3rd base yet, hopefully he'll get off to a good start at Columbus and earn a promotion by Memorial Day.

LaPorta is really an odd story, he clearly looks lost out there, and unfortunately I suspect that if he ever puts it together (and I'm starting to doubt he will) it won't be in an Indians uniform.

The Tigers have a lot more ability to absorb problems than the Tribe. Unfortunately, I also think that KC is on a major upswing, so I see the team as likely to be no better than in 3rd place, and struggling to play .500 ball.

My primary problem, however, is that I don't think they have team upside after this year. As I see it, the Colorado deal pretty much killed the ramp up towards 2014 and 2015 that was taking place. At that time, our mainstay starting pitchers, assuming they've been reasonably good, will get too expensive for the Indians to retain.

Pretty tough to see how they break out to the upside, today or tomorrow.
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Spin » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:20 pm

Maybe this is Chiz' wake up call. "Shape up, or we'll help you move your shit to Avon."
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby statmasta » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:58 pm

peeker643 wrote:Just fucking terrific.

I am certain that this season is THE season that 32 yr old fucking offensive sieves like Shelley Duncan Jack Fucking Hannahan turn their shitty offensive careers around.

And I'm sure Duncan is going to be just tremendous defensively too.

You've got to be fucking kidding me. Seriously.

You earn every loss you get with shit like that in your lineup.

And save the 'ground ball staff, gotta have Hannahan' bullshit. Tons of groundball pitchers in the game that aren't looking at Hannahan in their lineup. I don't usually get all sideways when young kids are sent down, but this is fucking stupid.

LOL chill out hoss
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Re: Chiz and LaPorta to Columbus

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:56 pm

We don't want LaPorta.
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