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Big Dance - 2012

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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:12 pm

FUDU wrote:The poise, focus and heart they've displayed so far this tourney is reason to believe they can beat anybody left, not that it would be easy. I'm not Sully's biggest fan, especially since he lost weight this past year for the purpose of playing at the next level, but he makes impressive shots and has a sweet touch.

Agree with peeker on Craft, he was getting so into it he went overboard,

Oh and the dunk from the freshman off of Craft's lob, ridiculous.


Sam Thompson is ridiculous. He is the only guy getting minutes that really has NBA athleticism. LaQuinton Ross is supposed to have similar athleticism and a more developed game, but he hasn't gotten much time so I have no idea how good he actually is.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:13 pm

furls wrote:
FUDU wrote:The poise, focus and heart they've displayed so far this tourney is reason to believe they can beat anybody left, not that it would be easy. I'm not Sully's biggest fan, especially since he lost weight this past year for the purpose of playing at the next level, but he makes impressive shots and has a sweet touch.

Agree with peeker on Craft, he was getting so into it he went overboard,

Oh and the dunk from the freshman off of Craft's lob, ridiculous.


Sam Thompson is ridiculous. He is the only guy getting minutes that really has NBA athleticism. LaQuinton Ross is supposed to have similar athleticism and a more developed game, but he hasn't gotten much time so I have no idea how good he actually is.



Oh yeah, does Craft remind anyone else of John Stockton on defense? I swear someone is going to punch him in the face.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:33 pm

furls wrote:
furls wrote:
FUDU wrote:The poise, focus and heart they've displayed so far this tourney is reason to believe they can beat anybody left, not that it would be easy. I'm not Sully's biggest fan, especially since he lost weight this past year for the purpose of playing at the next level, but he makes impressive shots and has a sweet touch.

Agree with peeker on Craft, he was getting so into it he went overboard,

Oh and the dunk from the freshman off of Craft's lob, ridiculous.


Sam Thompson is ridiculous. He is the only guy getting minutes that really has NBA athleticism. LaQuinton Ross is supposed to have similar athleticism and a more developed game, but he hasn't gotten much time so I have no idea how good he actually is.



Oh yeah, does Craft remind anyone else of John Stockton on defense? I swear someone is going to punch him in the face.


He reminds me of Eric Snow.

And I say that lovingly and also in knowing the "limitations" Snow had in a 13 year career. Don't really care that people here will cringe because Snow was a valuable dude for 7-8 years in the NBA.

Smart, leader, 6'2"-ish, 195lbs or so, PG that's a director and a defensive presence beyond all else and who is challenged offensively.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:45 pm

If Craft wants to emulate Stockton that's fine by me, just don't wear shorts like Stockton is all I ask.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:52 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:He is running the O inside out (which is the correct way to beat the zone........).
Absolutely agree with that statement. Most teams are afraid to try to attack the interior of Syracuse's zone. OSU went to Sully a lot.

OSU did a nice job hitting the guy in the short corner who then hit the high guy flashing low. The most impressive thing about that is the short corner guy has to make that pass in a hurry, because a trap is on its way every time the ball goes short corner. In fact OSU had at least two TOs passing it out of the short corner when they couldn't pass it before the trap got to them.

I am amazed at how simplistic college zone offenses are. There is very little player movement. Mostly guys just trying to find gaps on the perimeter. OSU was very patient. Almost lulling Cuse to sleep.

OSU set some ball screens vs the zone, but the only thing generated from them were a couple long jumpers off the dribble. Maybe only made one?

OSU was effective when they reversed the ball quickly (they didn't reverse it much at all last night)and then attacked the weak side quickly off the dribble. Did this late in the game a number of times.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:58 pm

peeker643 wrote:
furls wrote:
furls wrote:
FUDU wrote:The poise, focus and heart they've displayed so far this tourney is reason to believe they can beat anybody left, not that it would be easy. I'm not Sully's biggest fan, especially since he lost weight this past year for the purpose of playing at the next level, but he makes impressive shots and has a sweet touch.

Agree with peeker on Craft, he was getting so into it he went overboard,

Oh and the dunk from the freshman off of Craft's lob, ridiculous.


Sam Thompson is ridiculous. He is the only guy getting minutes that really has NBA athleticism. LaQuinton Ross is supposed to have similar athleticism and a more developed game, but he hasn't gotten much time so I have no idea how good he actually is.



Oh yeah, does Craft remind anyone else of John Stockton on defense? I swear someone is going to punch him in the face.


He reminds me of Eric Snow.

And I say that lovingly and also in knowing the "limitations" Snow had in a 13 year career. Don't really care that people here will cringe because Snow was a valuable dude for 7-8 years in the NBA.

Smart, leader, 6'2"-ish, 195lbs or so, PG that's a director and a defensive presence beyond all else and who is challenged offensively.


Craft was particularly Snow-like last night, because he was not really a scoring option in their game plan. Not that he would have a ton of ways to score against that zone. Not a tremendously great shooter. He did drive against their bigs once and scored, but he can't make a living doing that. I was surprised they didn't do more penetrate and kick or penetrate and dump with him. But their game plan was to methodically work it inside. I am SO GLAD they didn't settle for a ton of 3s against them.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:08 pm

BOHEIM: I just dont like him.

For a guy at his level of coaching success, he has serious insecurity issues.

When they were handed game 1 in the tourney by the refs, he says, "Luck has nothing to do with it. The better team won." But last night, he gives the "No comment" response last night about the officiating, more than hinting that the refs effected the outcome. He did, though, say OSU deserved the win, but I don't like his indirect whining about the refs when he got defensive about it when it was suggested he was given one by the refs earlier.

Speaking of being defensive, did you see the presser where someone asked him something about why he doesn't play man to man? He challenged the press as to why they don't ask Coach K why he doesn't drop back in a zone. "Oh, he's a good coach? That means I'm not a good coach??" I don't need to hear his insecurities and defensiveness about not being considered in the same league as Coach K. Dude has serious insecurity issues.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:42 pm

Snow is an amazing comparison, although defensively he does remind me of Stockton in his annoying persistence. Snow is actually probably a better overall comparison.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:43 pm

Boheim is a bitch. I dislike him immensely although 'Cuse is my #2 team due to family affiliations.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:46 pm

WOW!!
Baylor was up 10-5. And UK goes on a 16-0 run in a heartbeat! UK is good. Real good.
Baylor not working for good shots. Forcing the action too quickly.

EDIT: UK just hit 10 straight shots. You don't hit 10 straight shots in pre-game warm-ups!!
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:24 pm

The length and athleticism of UK is unreal. They played 7 guys in the first half:

Davis 6'10 C
Wiltier 6'9 F
Jones 6'9 F
Miller 6'8 G
Kidd-Gilchrist 6'7 F
Lamb 6'4 G
Teague 6'2 G
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:35 pm

Perry Jones III did not show up.
2 pts, 2 rebs at half on 1-5 shooting. Lottery pick??
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:47 pm

OldDawg wrote:Perry Jones III did not show up.
2 pts, 2 rebs at half on 1-5 shooting. Lottery pick??



I asked Lee this the other night on Twitter and I'll ask it here:

Today's the NBA draft and DeShaun Thomas has declared.

Do you take Thomas, Terrence Jones or Perry Jones if you have to pick one of them.

It's not a no-brainer. That's how fast Thomas's stock has risen IMO.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:14 pm

OldDawg wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:He is running the O inside out (which is the correct way to beat the zone........).
Absolutely agree with that statement. Most teams are afraid to try to attack the interior of Syracuse's zone. OSU went to Sully a lot.

OSU did a nice job hitting the guy in the short corner who then hit the high guy flashing low. The most impressive thing about that is the short corner guy has to make that pass in a hurry, because a trap is on its way every time the ball goes short corner. In fact OSU had at least two TOs passing it out of the short corner when they couldn't pass it before the trap got to them.

I am amazed at how simplistic college zone offenses are. There is very little player movement. Mostly guys just trying to find gaps on the perimeter. OSU was very patient. Almost lulling Cuse to sleep.

OSU set some ball screens vs the zone, but the only thing generated from them were a couple long jumpers off the dribble. Maybe only made one?

OSU was effective when they reversed the ball quickly (they didn't reverse it much at all last night)and then attacked the weak side quickly off the dribble. Did this late in the game a number of times.

One thing missing from hoops in general, but noticeably more so in college due to zones, is the mid range game. Particularly the one dribble and shoot approach. Today when guys do penetrate a zone more times than not they go too deep and get stuck, with either a forced shot against bigger or too many guys, or in guys like Craft's instance they have no where to dump off to if there there is no one cutting.

Also you just don't see enough guys with good shot fakes deep outside to create enough room for a quick dribble to the open 16 ft shot.

Arguably the best play of the night was Smith Jr's fake from the outside then his drive for the score (3-3:30 left in the game). Yet he was the only player in the entire game IIRC to even attempt such a move.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:50 pm

Thomas is an offensive threat, but he does not have elite athleticism. He has nice moves around the hoop, but that will not go well for him in the league. He also has a tendency to get REALLY lazy on the court, like getting yelled at on the court to play defense by his teammates in big games lazy.

I love the supreme confidence and neat skills around the hoop, but I am in no rush to buy his stock in the league. Personally, I would like to see him take another year and try to develop athletically, but if he hasn't done so in 2 years at OSU I am not sure another year would make the difference.

Thomas is as good as gone, I would say even more likely to go than Sully (100% likely to 97% likely), so I am not sure it is an "if he declares" question. There are some exciting young guys on the team, it will be interesting to see who steps up as the Bucks will fundamentally have to rebuild this team for the 3rd straight year. LQR, Scott, Craft, Williams, Thompson and Smith is a decent group to build around. I just wish one of them was a real life shooter.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:52 am

OldDawg wrote:BOHEIM: I just dont like him.

For a guy at his level of coaching success, he has serious insecurity issues.

When they were handed game 1 in the tourney by the refs, he says, "Luck has nothing to do with it. The better team won." But last night, he gives the "No comment" response last night about the officiating, more than hinting that the refs effected the outcome. He did, though, say OSU deserved the win, but I don't like his indirect whining about the refs when he got defensive about it when it was suggested he was given one by the refs earlier.


Meh. Truth is the refs were fucking awful in this game all around. Ass backwards, many times calling fouls when there were none and not calling when there were. Ticky-tack all night. The refs absolutely affected this game.

Did it affect/change who won? No, I think no matter what you can say about the fouls none were as impactful as the phantom call on Sully that benched him for 15 min. I was beyond livid. I got less mad throughout the game as I saw that we settled in ok and it became apparent that the refs were just a third team playing in this game rather than being on someone's side so to speak.

Fucking awful officiating though. In general I'm simply amazed at college refs complete and total failure to correctly officiate charge situations. I mean total and complete failure to get that call right in any of these tourney games. Not consistently, AT ALL.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:25 pm

JCoz wrote:I think no matter what you can say about the fouls none were as impactful as the phantom call on Sully that benched him for 15 min. I was beyond livid. I got less mad throughout the game as I saw that we settled in ok


I am with you on that. Sully actually backed away from the driver to avoid any contact. He let the guy shoot the layup.

Of course, Matta, like almost any coach, takes Sully out of the game with the 2nd cheap foul. Where coaches differ, however, is if/when they allow a player to play in the first half WITH two fouls. Many say never. Others will let them play a few late 1st-half minutes with two fouls. A few don't panic about 2 1st half fouls and only panic at 3 1st half fouls. Others react to the situation. Like JCoz said, OSU settled in. If Syracuse started to pound us with Sully on the bench, I gotta believe Matta puts Sully back in the game in the 1st half.

Here's what's crazy. Do you guys know how many fouls Sully ended up with?? THREE!!! So is Matta wrong for not "trusting" Sully to play in the 1st half with 2 fouls?? NO. Because its not always about trusting the player (sometimes it is), its about trusting the refs. Sully had already picked up one phantom foul call while getting out of the way. Sully did his part to be trusted. Whose to say the refs don't call another phantom foul on a flop or a post move or a rebound. You just can't always take that risk.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby pup » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:52 pm

OldDawg wrote:
JCoz wrote:I think no matter what you can say about the fouls none were as impactful as the phantom call on Sully that benched him for 15 min. I was beyond livid. I got less mad throughout the game as I saw that we settled in ok


I am with you on that. Sully actually backed away from the driver to avoid any contact. He let the guy shoot the layup.

Of course, Matta, like almost any coach, takes Sully out of the game with the 2nd cheap foul. Where coaches differ, however, is if/when they allow a player to play in the first half WITH two fouls. Many say never. Others will let them play a few late 1st-half minutes with two fouls. A few don't panic about 2 1st half fouls and only panic at 3 1st half fouls. Others react to the situation. Like JCoz said, OSU settled in. If Syracuse started to pound us with Sully on the bench, I gotta believe Matta puts Sully back in the game in the 1st half.

Here's what's crazy. Do you guys know how many fouls Sully ended up with?? THREE!!! So is Matta wrong for not "trusting" Sully to play in the 1st half with 2 fouls?? NO. Because its not always about trusting the player (sometimes it is), its about trusting the refs. Sully had already picked up one phantom foul call while getting out of the way. Sully did his part to be trusted. Whose to say the refs don't call another phantom foul on a flop or a post move or a rebound. You just can't always take that risk.


Pretty sure Thad talked about this. The plan was certainly for him to go back in and the coaches were talking about when.

They they played well enough to stay in the game so he got to sit him the entire half.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:40 pm

I'm not Thad's biggest fan in terms of game day coaching, but his handling of the Sully foul trouble was perfect. You have to sit him, and until your team is in the middle of a collapse you don't bring him back in. Thad's players stepped up for him with his main weapon on the bench, in large part b/c Craft is the real leader of the team, as he should be.

Personally I love the fact that you can have two guys with two different type of leadership roles. Thad seems to have managed that well this season.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:17 pm

FUDU wrote:I'm not Thad's biggest fan in terms of game day coaching, but his handling of the Sully foul trouble was perfect. You have to sit him, and until your team is in the middle of a collapse you don't bring him back in. Thad's players stepped up for him with his main weapon on the bench, in large part b/c Craft is the real leader of the team, as he should be.

Personally I love the fact that you can have two guys with two different type of leadership roles. Thad seems to have managed that well this season.


I had questioned how this team had played throughout the season as well.
I didn't think they had the same kind of defensive tenacity as some OSU teams in the past.
I also didn't think they had anywhere near the offensive chemistry as many of his recent teams either.
Thad likes to put players in position to make plays. He gives players a lot of offensive freedom in that scheme. I think some of Thad's recent teams dealt well with that freedom well. This year, I thought this led to a lot of bad shots at times. Other times, they force-fed Sully to the point of freezing other hot hands. However, it seems like the group has matured all at once. They seem to know their roles. They don't take as many bad shots. The seem to be on the same page.

I think Sully's "two different teams" comment might have been the most important statement made by a player on a ball team in a long time. What a self-analysis that was. At the right time.

Matta's stock went way up with me with how poised, disciplined and tough his team was against the Syracuse zone. Many teams settle for poor shots vs that zone. This team a month ago may have cast up some bad shots against it. It appears they are all on the same page right now. I guess to be in the final 4, you gotta be.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:16 pm

OldDawg wrote:
JCoz wrote:I think no matter what you can say about the fouls none were as impactful as the phantom call on Sully that benched him for 15 min. I was beyond livid. I got less mad throughout the game as I saw that we settled in ok


I am with you on that. Sully actually backed away from the driver to avoid any contact. He let the guy shoot the layup.

Of course, Matta, like almost any coach, takes Sully out of the game with the 2nd cheap foul. Where coaches differ, however, is if/when they allow a player to play in the first half WITH two fouls. Many say never. Others will let them play a few late 1st-half minutes with two fouls. A few don't panic about 2 1st half fouls and only panic at 3 1st half fouls. Others react to the situation. Like JCoz said, OSU settled in. If Syracuse started to pound us with Sully on the bench, I gotta believe Matta puts Sully back in the game in the 1st half.

Here's what's crazy. Do you guys know how many fouls Sully ended up with?? THREE!!! So is Matta wrong for not "trusting" Sully to play in the 1st half with 2 fouls?? NO. Because its not always about trusting the player (sometimes it is), its about trusting the refs. Sully had already picked up one phantom foul call while getting out of the way. Sully did his part to be trusted. Whose to say the refs don't call another phantom foul on a flop or a post move or a rebound. You just can't always take that risk.


A key part of that calculus has to be that teams will attack Sully with two fouls to get him a third and if they do that enough he will get it and he is truly behind the eightball. The importance of Ravenel and Williams' ability to hold down the fort and not force Matta's hand cannot be overstated.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby pup » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:51 pm

Every run by an opponent is still fed by Billy Buford thinking he hasn't gotten his and jacking pull ups on consecutive trips before dribbling the pill off his foot on the third one.

Only difference is now they have learned how to stop it and get back to their offense. It use to turn to Sully doing it, then Thomas so you had 7-8 straight possessions without a 2nd pass.


Edit: And I think a ton of ^^^ goes to Craft. Maybe I have forgotten, but the pull the entire team together on every stop seems like a recent change. Used to do it once in a while, but every ball stoppage? It has helped.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:02 pm

'bout to open a big ass can
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:13 pm

Buckeyes- 68

Kansas- 64
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:19 pm

It'll be a defensive struggle.

Buckeyes 18
Kansas 12

A. Davis is pretty F'n good.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:23 pm

Your kid looks thrilled, Eire.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:52 pm

I am still astounded at how easily Sullinger is shut the fuck down by basically an 7 footer. His lack of athleticism is shocking. Buckeyes need some offense.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Squints » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:22 pm

Disappointing end to a good run. Complete lack of focus on the last inbound.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:28 pm

Well..... that's what happens when you play dumb basketball for an ENTIRE FUCKING HALF.

DeShaun shooting those 3s..... holy shit, who drew that up?

Sully should not be shooting 3s period. Get tough in the lane first, fucker.

Buford can amaze you with his ability, and then make you scream "YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER" at your TV.

You knew the run was going to end. Shit.... i'm surprised they made it this far after finishing the season like they did.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby swerb » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:29 pm

Train wreck of a game by Deshaun. Game also killed Sullingers draft status. He was shut the F down by some stiff volleyball player just cause he had 4 inches on Sully.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Squints » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:36 pm

Not one Kevin Love reference tonight by Steve Kerr.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:39 pm

Weak.

Should have run them out of the gym. No defense for bad shot selection.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:40 pm

Thomas and Sully really should come back, they can and need to get better.

They won't though, money talks.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:42 pm

They played soft and stupid the second half.

I love how Thomas simply did not catch a pass that hits him square in the hands with the season on the line, the drop which leads to a game shattering break away opportunity, and then he doesn't hustle back on defense but instead limps like his leg is the reason why he didn't catch it. You see elementary school kids do that.

Absolutely no discipline the entire second half.

I love how Buford doesn't meet a pass and KU steals it and they go on a break... Buford does get back on D to stop the break away, but he decides to stand straight up and the guy then just blows by him for a layup.

I love how NO ONE could make an open shot, so the answer is to shoot it quicker and contested.

I do love Craft, but he made poor penetrate to shoot decisions in half court as he got every single one of those shots blocked... including the one to end the 1st half.

I love how Sully gets it in his head often that he HAS to shoot, no matter how many shots he has blocked (even on that possession), no matter who is behind him and no matter how deep under the backboard he is.

Thomas is skilled but has no basketball sense or basketball IQ. He is just an unbridled talent. I don't think he is ready for the NBA.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:46 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Thomas and Sully really should come back, they can and need to get better.

They won't though, money talks.


Sully is what he is. He isn't getting any better. He has pretty well maxed out the abilities he has. The only thing he can do is extend his shooting range.

Thomas would benefit from another year in college. He is very raw.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:48 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Buford can amaze you with his ability, and then make you scream "YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER" at your TV.

Personally yelled at him often. Certainly did some stupid stuff.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:49 pm

Buford needs to take the next step, he has nothing left to prove here, the NBA is waiting for you William.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:51 pm

FUDU wrote:Buford needs to take the next step, he has nothing left to prove here, the NBA is waiting for you William.



He's a senior, numbnuts.

He can't prove anything more/
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:52 pm

OldDawg wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Thomas and Sully really should come back, they can and need to get better.

They won't though, money talks.


Sully is what he is. He isn't getting any better. He has pretty well maxed out the abilities he has. The only thing he can do is extend his shooting range.

Thomas would benefit from another year in college. He is very raw.


He can get better down low. If he stays, I think he will.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:05 am

I was being sarcastic CrazyDrunkTeuton.

But I did think he was a junior.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby pup » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:29 am

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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby furls » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Sullinger can accomplish a couple of things with another year. He needs another off season like last year, where he stripped off about 20 lbs of baby fat. He either needs to get thinner and more athletic (not going to happen, he just isn't an athlete) or he needs to get stronger (maintain the weight and turn it into an "NBA Body"). He is just to soft at his current weight. He has to get stronger because he is so athletically limited. There is no question that he needs to extend his range, his future is at the 4 and as such he needs to develop a game from 12-15 feet. Although, if Matta is not going to play Amir Williams at the 5, then there is NO reason to believe that Sully will be able to show that range if he does develop it.

Thomas NEEDS another year. He had a great off season and dropped about 20lbs of baby fat, but he still needs another year to develop an "NBA Body." He has to develop more consistency at long range and show more consistency defending. He definitely played better D as the season went on (went from complete liability to averagish just based on increased effort). His inability to defend is what will kill his stock, he would get eaten up by any 3 or 4 in the NBA.

Will Buford has a nice future in the D-League and then in Europe. Nice college player, but that is all. Craft really HAS to develop some type of offensive game. If he could become a threat on the other side of the court this is a final 4 team (with Sullinger and Thomas).

The only real NBA athlete I have seen on the roster right now is Thompson, I wonder why he isn't more of a player on O.

This looks like it has potential for next year:

PG: Craft/Scott
SG: Smith/LaQuniton Ross
SF: Thomas/Thompson
PF: Sullinger/Thomas
C: Williams/Ravenel

Witherspoon and Sibert are likely to transfer. With Buford's departure, that means tOSU has 3 spots in the 2012 class (minimum), but most of the OSU worthy prospects are gone. If Sullinger and Thomas go that means tOSU has room for 5! That is really not good as there is almost never 5 tOSU worthy prospects in a class (particularly this late). Depth becomes a huge problem if they go.

tOSU had a nice class in 2006 (Oden, Conley, Cook, Lighy and Othello Hunter (JC Transfer)), but you cannot often get 5 of that quality.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:47 pm

Agreed in that Sully isn't gonna get more athletic. You bring up a good point about an "NBA body," though. If he can bulk up strength-wise, there's no reason he can't be a Barkley-type NBA player. Just carve out space, throw dudes around and go get a lot of boards. For a guy that can't jump, you can't deny his excellent timing with whatever hops he has. And he has great hands, a nice touch and a great bball IQ (most of the time).

Edit: Not sure if Barkley or a Willis Reed is a better comparison of an undersized NBA player who had great strength and great positioning ability. Those are lofty comparisons for Sully, but predicated on him getting much stronger.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:52 pm

furls wrote:Witherspoon and Sibert are likely to transfer.

Are those the two guys that were in the McDonalds all-star game a year ago. I saw a note of how many McD's all-americans were in the final four, and it mentioned two guys from tOSU that I never heard of.

What is the story on Witherspoon and Sibert and/or the two guys that were in the McDs game a year ago??
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:56 pm

furls wrote:Witherspoon and Sibert are likely to transfer.

Are those the two guys that were in the McDonalds all-star game a year ago. I saw a note of how many McD's all-americans were in the final four, and it mentioned two guys from tOSU that I never heard of.

What is the story on Witherspoon and Sibert and/or the two guys that were in the McDs game a year ago??

Edit: I just looked it up. The 2 guys that were in the McDs game were Amir Williams and Shannon Scott. Williams got some minutes, but what about Scott? You have him backing up Craft?
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby danwismar » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:38 pm

OldDawg wrote:
furls wrote:Witherspoon and Sibert are likely to transfer.

Are those the two guys that were in the McDonalds all-star game a year ago. I saw a note of how many McD's all-americans were in the final four, and it mentioned two guys from tOSU that I never heard of.

What is the story on Witherspoon and Sibert and/or the two guys that were in the McDs game a year ago??

Edit: I just looked it up. The 2 guys that were in the McDs game were Amir Williams and Shannon Scott. Williams got some minutes, but what about Scott? You have him backing up Craft?


That's right, OD. Scott played more than any other freshman all season...which is not to say he played a lot, but Matta likes to play Craft 37-40 minutes.

Witherspoon is a player, as a 3-4 kind of guy. He's got major ups and is super strong at about 6'8". Sibert hit a shooting slump that cost him the early minutes he was getting, but he's solid on both ends.

I've heard lots of speculation on next year's starting lineup if Thomas goes pro along with Sullinger. How about Craft and Smith Jr at guards, Amir Williams, Laquinton Ross at the three and Ravenal (I prefer Witherspoon)at 4? Sam Thompson as 6th man...Scott as 7th.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:39 pm

OD- I appreciate your view on the game and the players and all of that. But I just don't understand why people continue to bring up Barkley and Willis Reed (different game, different era, BTW) when talking about undersized, non athletic guys who were dominant in the league.

To me it's as ridiculous as the Kevin Love comp. Sullinger ain't that guy. And the NBA cemeteries are literally littered with unathletic, undersized tweeners who were once compared to Barkley and Reed and who played two or three mediocre or worse seasons in the league and then were never heard from again.

People want to talk about Sullinger like he's got the talent or the heart or the desire to be one of those very, very,very rare, one in 5 million exceptions to the rule.

You guys see a needle. I see a freaking haystack.

And BTW, as I know this will hit some Buckeye folks the wrong way, but a good chunk of my article that'll publish this evening is spent wondering why a coach like Jim Tressel became a national and regional joke for being unable to win more than one MNC yet no one talks to me at all about the inability of Thad Matta to take a lot of talent beyond where he's taken it.

Not saying Matta should go or can't coach/recruit/etc.

Saying because he walks in the shadow of Big Brother Football down there he sure seems to get much more of a pass than Tressel did o that Meyer will.

His kids are soft. That's on Matta. Either because he doesn't demand them not to be or because he recruits soft kids or because he demands them to be and they don't. Any way you look at it that's on him.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:02 pm

When there is NBA level size/athleticism around Sullinger, he does not look like Kevin Love.

He looks exactly like Tyler Hansborough in that situation.

And Thad Motta's coaching.... I'll say this, for a pure basketball fan, this Final Four has to be just painful. Not a God Damn one of these coaches save Motta coach ANYTHING half court.

Kansas can't score outside the break, Calipari runs that "dribble penetration offense" which I like to call "recruit the best one on one players in the country and give em' the ball" and Pitino hasn't had a proficient team in the half court about ever. Hell, it took a guy like Ralph Williard joining he staff to get Pitino out of the same press and scramble he used 100% of the time.

And back to Motta, I think what he said at the half was true, "we know who they're trying to get the ball to...." Christ, in the half-court how could you not. Quite simply, they controlled the break in the first half, and didn't in the second. That's aansas' win or loss right there, cause Self ain't changing anything.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby Action Boy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:His kids are soft. That's on Matta. Either because he doesn't demand them not to be or because he recruits soft kids or because he demands them to be and they don't. Any way you look at it that's on him.


Amen on the Matta take.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet, but Buford and Sullinger played zero defense in the final 3 minutes. They loafed and argued with officials on numerous occasions when Kansas had the numbers. OSU lost this game on the defensive side of things.

Playing solid defense for 40 minutes always gives you a chance to win....even when the offense struggles. Kansas is the perfect example as their offense SUCKS....having shot better than 40% only twice in the whole tournament. Simply put they don't have an offense. They have survived because they play great defense every single possession.
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Re: Big Dance - 2012

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:16 pm

Action Boy wrote:I don't believe anyone has mentioned this yet, but Buford and Sullinger played zero defense in the final 3 minutes. They loafed and argued with officials on numerous occasions when Kansas had the numbers. OSU lost this game on the defensive side of things.

Considering just running the floor in transition was about all the defense you had to play... and they didn't do that in key stretches.
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