Draft Prospect Reset

[peeker643]

Taking a breath, reviewing what we learned. One more really specialized and intriguing WR prospect tonight or tomorrow and then we hit some OL that will be available and interesting to Browns early in the draft:

http://bit.ly/GIcwtf

[jb]

One more really specialized and intriguing WR prospect tonight or tomorrow

Damn I'm gonna need double doze Ambien tonight. Ho am I going to sleep?

[JCoz]

Taking a breath, reviewing what we learned. One more really specialized and intriguing WR prospect tonight or tomorrow and then we hit some OL that will be available and interesting to Browns early in the draft:

http://bit.ly/GIcwtf

Hopefull its Hill.

[peeker643]

One more really specialized and intriguing WR prospect tonight or tomorrow

Damn I'm gonna need double doze Ambien tonight. Ho am I going to sleep?

Probably like you usually do: 15 beers?

[peeker643]

Taking a breath, reviewing what we learned. One more really specialized and intriguing WR prospect tonight or tomorrow and then we hit some OL that will be available and interesting to Browns early in the draft:

http://bit.ly/GIcwtf

Hopefull its Hill.

Running nine routes for a living. That's the guy.

[bookelly]

Stay with Colt. Give him some help with Trent "Freak" Richardson and a full offseason. An RT with two feet would also help.

Look at the stats comparison of rookie QB's. Colt holds his own. Despite the afore mentioned handicaps.

Two years ago we were all jovial that we got a diamond in the rough in the 3rd round. Sure his arm isn't a cannon, but he's tough as nails and a true leader on the field.

Give him a RB and watch the D creep up...then ? We'll see.



Edit: like the new blog guys.

[scott]

Stay with Colt. Give him some help with Trent "Freak" Richardson and a full offseason. An RT with two feet would also help.

Look at the stats comparison of rookie QB's. Colt holds his own. Despite the afore mentioned handicaps.

Two years ago we were all jovial that we got a diamond in the rough in the 3rd round. Sure his arm isn't a cannon, but he's tough as nails and a true leader on the field.

Give him a RB and watch the D creep up...then ? We'll see.



Edit: like the new blog guys.

I've gotten over RGIII. Heckert did a nice job in his first draft for us last year. We can add 3-4 impact players at positions of need if things fall right.

[jb]

I know how unbelievably dumb this is, but I am warming up to Richardson at 4 , a BPA WR at 22, and ORT at 37. CB prospect in round 3 , OL & LBer fliers after that.

Kick me in the jimmy, but I'm gravitating here.

[peeker643]

I know how unbelievably dumb this is, but I am warming up to Richardson at 4 , a BPA WR at 22, and ORT at 37. CB prospect in round 3 , OL & LBer fliers after that.

Kick me in the jimmy, but I'm gravitating here.

Yep. If they're going 'elite' I think that's how it goes down.

Only way I see otherwise is if they really think a guy like L Miller or D Wilson is close enough to Richardson that there's more value to trade back and get one of those guys while accumulating picks. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Miller and Floyd after watching too many of their games/plays.

Although I really think it's Richardson or move back if a couple teams get excited about Claiborne, Kalil or Richardson and will give up an Atlanta-like haul.

[jb]

I know how unbelievably dumb this is, but I am warming up to Richardson at 4 , a BPA WR at 22, and ORT at 37. CB prospect in round 3 , OL & LBer fliers after that.

Kick me in the jimmy, but I'm gravitating here.

Yep. If they're going 'elite' I think that's how it goes down.

Only way I see otherwise is if they really think a guy like L Miller or D Wilson is close enough to Richardson that there's more value to trade back and get one of those guys while accumulating picks. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Miller and Floyd after watching too many of their games/plays.

Although I really think it's Richardson or move back if a couple teams get excited about Claiborne, Kalil or Richardson and will give up an Atlanta-like haul.

Oh, and I like Steve Hill, too. Didn't get a chance in that O to really show, but he's in that Greg Little mold. May give you a shot at the Stanford ORT if you hope Hill is there at 37.

As much as I undervalue RB, I think taking a CB is likewise tough. The whole notion of a shut down corner is like looking for a passenger pidgin these days vs elite offenses AFAIC.

If they draft Kaleel 4 overall look for me on the overpass of your choice with an automatic weapon.

Keyrhyst.

Do we REALLY trade down 3 years in a row with zero playmakers?

Can't see it, and I also don't see teams looking at cats in our slot as "gotta haves". We won't get value.

Just take the best O playmaker there and get on with it. I think that's Trent > Blackmon. YMMV.

[JCoz]

I know how unbelievably dumb this is, but I am warming up to Richardson at 4 , a BPA WR at 22, and ORT at 37. CB prospect in round 3 , OL & LBer fliers after that.

Kick me in the jimmy, but I'm gravitating here.

I am as well though I would prefer a trade down in a perfect world.

I'm torn on the OT at 37 because I've really warmed up to Zach Brown. I think he is a better OLB prospect than Sanders is a OT prospect.

But because the browns refused to even attempt (not that I even know, just assuming) to address RT in FA, its a higher priority.

So if we could trade down and aquire another 2nd and get both, that would be the ideal situation. I think I'd still pick Brown there to be honest and hope to address tackle later.

[JCoz]

Oh, and I like Steve Hill, too. Didn't get a chance in that O to really show, but he's in that Greg Little mold. May give you a shot at the Stanford ORT if you hope Hill is there at 37.

As much as I undervalue RB, I think taking a CB is likewise tough. The whole notion of a shut down corner is like looking for a passenger pidgin these days vs elite offenses AFAIC.

If they draft Kaleel 4 overall look for me on the overpass of your choice with an automatic weapon.

Keyrhyst.

Do we REALLY trade down 3 years in a row with zero playmakers?

Can't see it, and I also don't see teams looking at cats in our slot as "gotta haves". We won't get value.

Just take the best O playmaker there and get on with it. I think that's Trent > Blackmon. YMMV.

Did you see Hill’s combine numbers? If he makes it to 37 I’ll be shocked. Athletically he’s got WAY more going on than Greg Little. Better WR? Dunno. EDIT: I take it back, besides being faster, they are remarkably similair in drill numbers, and probably about as equally inexperienced as WR's.

If Kalil falls to 4 that is an absolute best case scenario for the Browns, that puts trade down squarely in their sights, sadly, Mike has far to big an ego to do what he SHOULD do in that scenario, which is trade to the team that wants him most, the Rams. And you’d still be sitting at 6 for Richardson most likely.

[jb]

Just thinking some mix of O playmakers and ORT in 1st 3 picks.

Can't see Mo Clay.

[jb]

Did you see Hill’s combine numbers? If he makes it to 37 I’ll be shocked. Athletically he’s got WAY more going on than Greg Little. Better WR? Dunno.

If Kalil falls to 4 that is an absolute best case scenario for the Browns, that puts trade down squarely in their sights, sadly, Mike has far to big an ego to do what he SHOULD do in that scenario, which is trade to the team that wants him most, the Rams. And you’d still be sitting at 6 for Richardson most likely.

Who knows. I' seeing Hill in the 30's in many mocks. Needs, slotting, its a crap shoot up 5 slots / down 5 slots.

I'm all for moving down a slot or 3. But no more nosetackles and centers.

[JCoz]

Did you see Hill’s combine numbers? If he makes it to 37 I’ll be shocked. Athletically he’s got WAY more going on than Greg Little. Better WR? Dunno.

If Kalil falls to 4 that is an absolute best case scenario for the Browns, that puts trade down squarely in their sights, sadly, Mike has far to big an ego to do what he SHOULD do in that scenario, which is trade to the team that wants him most, the Rams. And you’d still be sitting at 6 for Richardson most likely.

Who knows. I' seeing Hill in the 30's in many mocks. Needs, slotting, its a crap shoot up 5 slots / down 5 slots.

I'm all for moving down a slot or 3. But no more nosetackles and centers.

6'4 WR's who run 4.3 40's generally dont last till the 2nd, but hey...Al is dead so there's a better chance this year than last.

Also had to edit above as you are far more correct than I thought regarding their similarities.

Even having a pick in the teen's and a pick in the 20's probably lands us Miller and Wright...So I'm cool with more than a few slots if they are of the same mind here.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I know how unbelievably dumb this is, but I am warming up to Richardson at 4 , a BPA WR at 22, and ORT at 37. CB prospect in round 3 , OL & LBer fliers after that.

Kick me in the jimmy, but I'm gravitating here.

Sigh.........agree that right now Richardson is the only one at 4 that flips my flapjacks

I think they'll go Floyd @22 if he's even still there but if I had a choice, I pick Kendall Wright

...after that I don't much give a rat's ass as long as they're right... 10-12 more LB's sounds about right tho and I'm really digging the RT with two feet angle...

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Hard to get excited for Richardson and BPAs when it'll be another 16 games of the Colt 'n Seneca Show this fall. I still feel we gotta squeeze Weeden in there somewhere.

[jb]

Hard to get excited for Richardson and BPAs when it'll be another 16 games of the Colt 'n Seneca Show this fall. I still feel we gotta squeeze Weeden in there somewhere.

Possibly Weeden at 37. But really; why?

[Love child of shawn kemp]

[quote="Fire Marshall Bill...after that I don't much give a rat's ass as long as they're right... 10-12 more LB's sounds about right tho and I'm really digging the RT with two feet angle...[/quote]

We need to make sure that those two feet include (1) Left and (1) Right.

[Doc]

It's sad that the 2 best players on the board at #4 are the 2 things we least need. And the 3rd best traditionally shouldn't be drafted at that spot. I don't have a clue this year what to do.

Obviously a trade down is what I'd prefer. Any takers in the Top 10? I'd love to be able to drop back a few spots and still be able to get, say, Floyd (or Richardson/Blackmon of course). But who wouldn't?

We need...QB, RB, WR x 2, RT, OG, LB x 2, CB, S. 10 needs. I doubt they bring in another young OG this year. As long as they address RB, WR, RT, LB, CB, and hopefully either QB or S in the first 4 rounds, I should be happy. Preference if they stay put...Richardson, Hill, RT in the 2nd, Minnifield in the 3rd, and maybe Nick Foles and a safety in round 4.

[jb]

It's sad that the 2 best players on the board at #4 are the 2 things we least need. And the 3rd best traditionally shouldn't be drafted at that spot. I don't have a clue this year what to do.

Obviously a trade down is what I'd prefer. Any takers in the Top 10? I'd love to be able to drop back a few spots and still be able to get, say, Floyd (or Richardson/Blackmon of course). But who wouldn't?

We need...QB, RB, WR x 2, RT, OG, LB x 2, CB, S. 10 needs. I doubt they bring in another young OG this year. As long as they address RB, WR, RT, LB, CB, and hopefully either QB or S in the first 4 rounds, I should be happy. Preference if they stay put...Richardson, Hill, RT in the 2nd, Minnifield in the 3rd, and maybe Nick Foles and a safety in round 4.

If no QB until 4th I think Brock may be in play.

[Ziner]

I think Weeden is going to drop, maybe past the 2nd. Figure Wash, Indy and Miami take Luck, RG3 and Tannehill who else besides us is unsettled at QB? Can't see Minn or Jax using a 2nd rounder after using top 15 picks last year, would KC? I feel like QB is the one position where most teams don't just follow their board especially in the first two rounds, if you need one you get one, if you don't, you dont go blowing a 2nd rounder because of value.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Hard to get excited for Richardson and BPAs when it'll be another 16 games of the Colt 'n Seneca Show this fall. I still feel we gotta squeeze Weeden in there somewhere.

Possibly Weeden at 37. But really; why?

Irrational belief that Weeden might actually step in and win games, or at the least be better than watching McCoy flail around before taking the next shot to his noggin.

[Hikohadon]

On one hand - Weeden could very well come in and be better than Colt right away.

On the other - not a high confidence that he can has Super Bowl winning QB potential (no matter where he goes).

[mistero]

Tannehill at 4.
K Wright at 22.
L Miller at 37.


Give me a RT in the 3rd and T Ganaway in the 5th as my new WCO FB.

Let the offense grow up together.

[jb]

Tannehill at 4.
K Wright at 22.
L Miller at 37.


Give me a RT in the 3rd and T Ganaway in the 5th as my new WCO FB.

Let the offense grow up together.

Into what?

Mediocrity?

[mistero]

Yes, you nailed it. Mediocrity.

Have you watched any of these players?

Miller and Wright are playmakers. Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

I know doing the right thing is the exact opposite you've come to expect on draft day but can I at least dream until Heckert and Co pisses in my ear hole? We need skill players, starting with a new QB and Tannehill is the only gunslinger left at the bar. Sure he's a "B" prospect and Luck and Grffin are "A+" prospects. Still beats the shit out of Little Lamp Lighter and his D+ grade for another year.

[jb]

Yes, you nailed it. Mediocrity.

Have you watched any of these players?

Miller and Wright are playmakers. Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

I have, have you?

An interception machine with accuracy issues is a prototype WCO QB?

He's a mobile DA to me.

The other guys are OK. Get me more of them. We missed the boat on fixing the QB for now.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'll be shocked if Miller lasted to 37

...and Tannehill @4

JFC just shoot me now

The only possible reason I can fathom for the supposed Tannehil man love by the FO is to bait Miami into a trade where we can still get Richardson

Think Shaun Alexander people

[Hikohadon]

Yes, you nailed it. Mediocrity.

Have you watched any of these players?

Miller and Wright are playmakers. Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

I have, have you?

An interception machine with accuracy issues is a prototype WCO QB?

He's a mobile DA to me.

The other guys are OK. Get me more of them. We missed the boat on fixing the QB for now.

To me Tannehill = Prolonged Mitigated Pain.

He's like a kick in the balls that you bargain with God to get spread out over a two year span.

He's probably got more hope than Colteca McWallace, but he's gonna end up pissing on your grave.

[mattvan1]

Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

Not to pick on mistero, but exactly WTF does that mean? Seriously. I thought Colt was the protypical WCO QB. Then people tell me the Packers run the WCO and Rodgers is exactly the type of QB you want.

What skills does a WCO QB need that other NFL QBs do not? I can't think of any. Does it even matter?

[mistero]

WCO QB needs to be accurate, above all. Needs to understand complicated schemes. Needs to be mobile and able to throw rolling left or right. Does not need to have big arm. Does not need to hit the +15 yard pass on a consistant basis.

[JCoz]

Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

Not to pick on mistero, but exactly WTF does that mean? Seriously. I thought Colt was the protypical WCO QB. Then people tell me the Packers run the WCO and Rodgers is exactly the type of QB you want.

What skills does a WCO QB need that other NFL QBs do not? I can't think of any. Does it even matter?

Back when Colt was accurate, he WAS pretty spot on for the WCO. smallish sure, but if dude was as accurate as he was in college no one would be talking about his noodle arm IMO. His accuracy seemed to nosedive between his rookie and 2nd season, due in no small part to the turnstiles on the right side of the line. But you gotta deal with that sometimes in the NFL.

Rodgers did in 2009-2010. Ben was murdered at times this season. It certainly isnt a Browns only issue.

[Hikohadon]

WCO QB needs to be accurate, above all.

So what's that got to do with Tannehill?

[pod2dawg]

WCO QB needs to be accurate, above all.

So what's that got to do with Tannehill?

Well, if we had Tannehill Harrison would have to propel himself a tad bit higher to concuss him.

[peeker643]

Excellent point. McCoy's ball placment was abysmal on many occasions last year. Combination of new offense, lack of tutleage, mediocre wide receivers running new routes, play calling, no running game, general suck on his part, poor protection, lack of confidence in his arm, shit, any number of things.

It would not surprise me if he rose to 'meh' levels again this season. Better than last year and just good enough to muddy the waters for some.

Tannehill is prototypical WCO QB.

Not to pick on mistero, but exactly WTF does that mean? Seriously. I thought Colt was the protypical WCO QB. Then people tell me the Packers run the WCO and Rodgers is exactly the type of QB you want.

What skills does a WCO QB need that other NFL QBs do not? I can't think of any. Does it even matter?

Back when Colt was accurate, he WAS pretty spot on for the WCO. smallish sure, but if dude was as accurate as he was in college no one would be talking about his noodle arm IMO. His accuracy seemed to nosedive between his rookie and 2nd season, due in no small part to the turnstiles on the right side of the line. But you gotta deal with that sometimes in the NFL.

Rodgers did in 2009-2010. Ben was murdered at times this season. It certainly isnt a Browns only issue.

[jb]

WCO QB needs to be accurate, above all. Needs to understand complicated schemes. Needs to be mobile and able to throw rolling left or right. Does not need to have big arm. Does not need to hit the +15 yard pass on a consistant basis.

Christ on a pony, that's the opposite of the Tannyhill I watched and the INT's on his record.

Big arm, big athlete, not a polished QB.

Again, the only common denominator I find in QB prospects is that guys that throw picks in college fail.

[mistero]

Peyton Manning
1996 380 243 63.9 3287 12INT 20TD
1997 477 287 60.37 3819 11INT 37TD


Drew Brees
1998 Purdue Big Ten QB 361 569 63.4 3983 7.0 6.8 39TD 20INT 137.8
1999 Purdue Big Ten QB 337 554 60.8 3909 7.1 7.0 25TD 12INT 130.7
2000 Purdue Big Ten SR QB 286 473 60.5 3393 7.2 7.0 24TD 12INT 132.4

Ryan Tannehill
2011 327 531 3744 61.6 7.05 79 29TD 15INT 9 133.2
2010 152 234 1638 65.0 7.00 64 13TD 6INT 12 137.0

[JCoz]

It would not surprise me if he rose to 'meh' levels again this season. Better than last year and just good enough to muddy the waters for some.

This is by far the worst and most dangerous part about not replacing Colt this offseason.

[Hikohadon]

Peyton Manning
1996 380 243 63.9 3287 12INT 20TD
1997 477 287 60.37 3819 11INT 37TD


Drew Brees
1998 Purdue Big Ten QB 361 569 63.4 3983 7.0 6.8 39TD 20INT 137.8
1999 Purdue Big Ten QB 337 554 60.8 3909 7.1 7.0 25TD 12INT 130.7
2000 Purdue Big Ten SR QB 286 473 60.5 3393 7.2 7.0 24TD 12INT 132.4

Ryan Tannehill
2011 327 531 3744 61.6 7.05 79 29TD 15INT 9 133.2
2010 152 234 1638 65.0 7.00 64 13TD 6INT 12 137.0

Ohhhhh... STATS!

While we're at it, can we also get Graham Harrell's stats? Colt Brennan? Andre Ware? Almost any QB that gets drafted?

I will continue to believe what my eyes tell me, not numbers.

[Hikohadon]

It would not surprise me if he rose to 'meh' levels again this season. Better than last year and just good enough to muddy the waters for some.

This is by far the worst and most dangerous part about not replacing Colt this offseason.

Definitely it is. If there are all these people still grinding the "Give Colt a chance" axes, imagine what it'll be like if he's somewhat better and the team goes 7-9.

Hopefully our FO won't buy into fool's gold the way that Denver's didn't, but I see no reason to get my hopes up.

[mistero]

Yeah I'm not big into stats either. That was directed to JB and his INT comment.
I think Tannehill passes the eye test for what a franchise QB looks like. That's what's most important to me.

[Hikohadon]

Yeah I'm not big into stats either. That was directed to JB and his INT comment.
I think Tannehill passes the eye test for what a franchise QB looks like. That's what's most important to me.

Fair enough. My impression is also based upon what I've seen, but I can admit that it's too small a sample size to feel 100% certain in my assertions. I just like what I've seen from Weeden better, and he can be had lower (solely b/c of his age). To me, that's win-win.

[jb]

Yeah I'm not big into stats either. That was directed to JB and his INT comment.
I think Tannehill passes the eye test for what a franchise QB looks like. That's what's most important to me.

Tannyhill throws gawd awful picks. I stand by my take.

[FUDU]

WCO QB needs to be accurate, above all. Needs to understand complicated schemes. Needs to be mobile and able to throw rolling left or right. Does not need to have big arm. Does not need to hit the +15 yard pass on a consistant basis.

Can you site examples of the successful WC QBs you've seen that did not consistently hit +15 yard passes?

[Ziner]

Brush up on those 6th and 7th round prospects... we have 3 of each now due to compensatory picks.

[JCoz]

Brush up on those 6th and 7th round prospects... we have 3 of each now due to compensatory picks.

Seems Meh to some but those provide alot of flexibility for phil to move around a bit as neccessary in the mid rounds like 4-5.

Still gotta hit what you take, but it allows you to get the guy you wanted.

[Ziner]

Brush up on those 6th and 7th round prospects... we have 3 of each now due to compensatory picks.

Seems Meh to some but those provide alot of flexibility for phil to move around a bit as neccessary in the mid rounds like 4-5.

Still gotta hit what you take, but it allows you to get the guy you wanted.

Not saying you didnt know this and it doesnt take away from your point, but compensatory picks can not be traded... I didnt know that until MKC tweeted it.

[JCoz]

Brush up on those 6th and 7th round prospects... we have 3 of each now due to compensatory picks.

Seems Meh to some but those provide alot of flexibility for phil to move around a bit as neccessary in the mid rounds like 4-5.

Still gotta hit what you take, but it allows you to get the guy you wanted.

Not saying you didnt know this and it doesnt take away from your point, but compensatory picks can not be traded... I didnt know that until MKC tweeted it.

Did not know that.

Still allows them to trade their own but yah, learned something. Why shouldn't you be able to trade these?

[Ziner]

I have no idea, my first thought was the same as yours. Bundle up some 4's and 6's to get in the 3rd, etc. Not sure why they give them to you only to not let you use them in any manor you choose.