Walrus Has No Balls - RG3 a Redskin

[Hikohadon]

Michael Bush, 14/4 with Da Bears. Are we really content to head into the season with OMGBANANA and Jackson behind Hardesty as running backs? Holy @#*%.

Guarantee that the Browns take a RB with one of the first 3 picks.

If they don't, then, yes, be scared on many different levels.

[swerb]

Holmgren = liar

http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2012/03/ ... tructions/

[Hikohadon]

I couldn't care less if Holmgren lies every time he opens his mouth, so long as he gets the job done (which he hasn't so far).

I also couldn't care less if he tells the truth so long as he continues to fail.

When I become GM, at my introductory press conference I will say: "I want you to know right now that for various reasons I will lie to you all the time. I don't know what percentage of what I say will be lies, but it will be high. And that's the last true thing you'll hear from me."

[JCoz]

That wasn't the press, it was season ticket holders. And it wasn't about some possible FA targets, or who they are interested in the Draft.

It was Holmgren making pitiful excuses to fans about how the Rams dicked Cleveland out of a deal because they are buddies with Dan Snyder.

That doesn't make my list of acceptable admin lies.

[Hikohadon]

That wasn't the press, it was season ticket holders. And it wasn't about some possible FA targets, or who they are interested in the Draft.

It was Holmgren making pitiful excuses to fans about how the Rams dicked Cleveland out of a deal because they are buddies with Dan Snyder.

That doesn't make my list of acceptable admin lies.

They were pitiful excuses.

I'm sure the season ticket holders believe they deserve the truth. Holmgren thinks they can't handle the truth. Or the truth is embarrassing and puts him in a bad light.

Who cares. Don't care what he says. Care what he does. If he's lying to put himself in a better light or if he's telling the truth, it doesn't change the result that RG3 will be somewhere else. There's nothing he can say or can't say that will change that, and that (the result) is all that matters to me.

Like I said, if can build a winner, he can tell everyone he's an elf-lord from Planet Schrute and no one would give a damn. Honesty With Fans/Media is about 600th on my list of GM responsibilities.

[JCoz]

Or the truth is embarrassing and puts him in a bad light.

Sure, thats what we have here, probably. Just saying that lying is part of the job, but lying to coverup your incompetance isn't.

So Mike should have just shut the fuck up about it.

[Hikohadon]

Or the truth is embarrassing and puts him in a bad light.

Sure, thats what we have here, probably. Just saying that lying is part of the job, but lying to coverup your incompetance isn't.

So Mike should have just shut the fuck up about it.

Fair enough. I find it fairly common/mundane that someone would lie to cover up their incompetence, but you're right that he certainly could've said less.

I do submit that Holmgren - like my ex-wife - believes some of his own bullshit.

[swerb]

It's a little different from the standpoint that you are lying to your customers. People expect team execs to lie to the media, or be less than truthful.

Little different to just blatantly lie to your paying customers on a season ticket holder call.

Guy is just so damn arrogant. Got oursmarted by Dan Snyder. And lied to make himself feel better about the failure.

[Hikohadon]

It's a little different from the standpoint that you are lying to your customers. People expect team execs to lie to the media, or be less than truthful.

Little different to just blatantly lie to your paying customers on a season ticket holder call.

Guy is just so damn arrogant. Got oursmarted by Dan Snyder. And lied to make himself feel better about the failure.

Shrug. People lie to customers all the time. I think the only thing GM's owe their customers/fans is a winning product.

Like I said, he builds a winner, he can lie about the color of the sky and no one will care. The longer he flops around uselessly, the longer people will take issue with everything he says, no matter what it is.

[pup]

You only lie when the truth sucks.

Not being 100% truthful about your future plans is smart and not what I would consider a lie.

Telling people the sky is green so they miss the fact their house is on fire...that is a lie.

He lies, because he (and the truth about what he is doing) suck.

Maybe next year will be the year his plan comes together. Year 3 unless you are scoring at home and realize they he has been here for 4.

[mattvan1]

It's a little different from the standpoint that you are lying to your customers. People expect team execs to lie to the media, or be less than truthful.

Little different to just blatantly lie to your paying customers on a season ticket holder call.

Guy is just so damn arrogant. Got oursmarted by Dan Snyder. And lied to make himself feel better about the failure.

Shrug. People lie to customers all the time. I think the only thing GM's owe their customers/fans is a winning product.

Like I said, he builds a winner, he can lie about the color of the sky and no one will care. The longer he flops around uselessly, the longer people will take issue with everything he says, no matter what it is.

Agree all they owe the fans is a winning product (with a modicum of class) but EOD habitual liars rarely end up successful. Before we all fall through the looking glass this has nothing to do with morals or ethics or good vs. evil or being punished for your sins. It's way more straightforward. In the course of running your business, if you find that you must continually lie to keep the peace with your boss, or keep sharholders happy, or the fans or press off your back, then you have no fucking clue what you are doing and need to be removed asap.

[Hikohadon]

You only lie when the truth sucks.

Not being 100% truthful about your future plans is smart and not what I would consider a lie.

Telling people the sky is green so they miss the fact their house is on fire...that is a lie.

He lies, because he (and the truth about what he is doing) suck.

Maybe next year will be the year his plan comes together. Year 3 unless you are scoring at home and realize they he has been here for 4.

Of course.

He tells the truth, everyone freaks out b/c the truth sucks.

He lies, everyone freaks out b/c he's lying.

There is nothing he can say that can fix the reality of the situation or make people happy, so it doesn't matter to me what comes out of his mouth. I think him lying or misrepresenting the truth is perfectly normal in this circumstance and won't matter at all if he builds a winner and won't be the reason he gets fired if he fails.

[Hikohadon]

Agree all they owe the fans is a winning product (with a modicum of class) but EOD habitual liars rarely end up successful.

Wait... deep breath...



Liar or not, it looks less and likely that he will end up successful. But that would be due to his personnel/coaching choices, not that he's a windbag or that he has the same agent as the cleaning lady or that he drives a mint green Nissan Cube or that he doesn't floss after eating Oreos.

John McClain: "Class? Class? Who gives a shit about class?"

[mattvan1]

Agree all they owe the fans is a winning product (with a modicum of class) but EOD habitual liars rarely end up successful.

Wait... deep breath...



Liar or not, it looks less and likely that he will end up successful. But that would be due to his personnel/coaching choices, not that he's a windbag or that he has the same agent as the cleaning lady or that he drives a mint green Nissan Cube or that he doesn't floss after eating Oreos.

John McClain: "Class? Class? Who gives a shit about class?"

Again, I was not clear/you missed the point. It is not a character issue. It's a symptom, of his poor decision making. Make good decisions and there is no need to lie.

[Hikohadon]

FTR - Another reason his explanations mean nothing to me is that I have no reason to believe Snead (who I saw on NFLN and seemed like not the brightest bulb on the string) any more than I do Holmgren. Furthermore, there are no unmitigated facts as to the offers, which are seen subjectively by each party. Maybe Holmgren truly feels his 3 1's was a better offer than Washington's b/c the 4 is two places higher than the 6 and it would cost an extra 2nd to move up those 2 spots (at least).

Who knows? At this point, who cares?

There is only one FACT in this instance, and that is that RG3 will not be a Brown. THAT is what I feel Holmgren has to answer for.

[Hikohadon]

Again, I was not clear/you missed the point. It is not a character issue. It's a symptom, of his poor decision making. Make good decisions and there is no need to lie.

On that, we agree completely.

And it was probably me missing the point. I tend to do that.

[pup]

You only lie when the truth sucks.

Not being 100% truthful about your future plans is smart and not what I would consider a lie.

Telling people the sky is green so they miss the fact their house is on fire...that is a lie.

He lies, because he (and the truth about what he is doing) suck.

Maybe next year will be the year his plan comes together. Year 3 unless you are scoring at home and realize they he has been here for 4.

Of course.

He tells the truth, everyone freaks out b/c the truth sucks.

He lies, everyone freaks out b/c he's lying.

There is nothing he can say that can fix the reality of the situation or make people happy, so it doesn't matter to me what comes out of his mouth. I think him lying or misrepresenting the truth is perfectly normal in this circumstance and won't matter at all if he builds a winner and won't be the reason he gets fired if he fails.

You like to leave out the good option....

Don't suck so bad at your job that you have to lie.

[swerb]

It's a little grainy - but TMZ got a shot of Holmgren picking up his last paycheck from the Lerner estates.

[pup]

It's a little grainy - but TMZ got a shot of Holmgren picking up his last paycheck from the Lerner estates.

Where is the other half of him?

[Fire Marshall Bill]

The sad part is he's stupid enuff to believe Cleveland Fans are stupid enuff to believe his stupidity

[swerb]

The sad part is he's stupid enuff to believe Cleveland Fans are stupid enuff to believe his stupidity

By my estimation, 55-60% still do.

[Hikohadon]

You like to leave out the good option....

Don't suck so bad at your job that you have to lie.

Make good decisions and there is no need to lie.

On that, we agree completely.

Like I said.

Reading is fundamental.

Comprehension is not.

[pup]

You like to leave out the good option....

Don't suck so bad at your job that you have to lie.

Make good decisions and there is no need to lie.

On that, we agree completely.

Like I said.

Reading is fundamental.

Comprehension is not.

I responded to a quote. It is not my problem you chose to add to your answer later on in the thread.

[Hikohadon]

I responded to a quote. It is not my problem you chose to add to your answer later on in the thread.

Yet a day before your response.

[pup]

I responded to a quote. It is not my problem you chose to add to your answer later on in the thread.

Yet a day before your response.

Didn't know I had to read an entire thread before responding. My apologies.

[The Score]

I don't like Holmgren and think he is terrible at his job.

But, for as much as the Lamonte stuff is thrown around here, it is a little weird that it is ignored that Marvin Demoff is Jeff Fisher's agent, Peter King's agent, and the Ram's VP Kevin Demoff's father. Peter King is lazy to begin with, and then his word on the real happenings in St Louis is somehow golden?

Plus, the quotes in the Frowns' article don't prove Holmgren as lying. The quote lists St. Louis's offer that we already know and then say Cleveland's offer wasn't as good without listing Cleveland's offer - which is the same thing Holmgren did.

And really, the final best offer is stupid, especially when the Rams say in those same quotes that the offers would be final... unless the Rams decided that the offers weren't final.

With all that said, I hope they ditch Holmgren sooner than later.

[Hikohadon]

I don't like Holmgren and think he is terrible at his job.

But, for as much as the Lamonte stuff is thrown around here, it is a little weird that it is ignored that Marvin Demoff is Jeff Fisher's agent, Peter King's agent, and the Ram's VP Kevin Demoff's father. Peter King is lazy to begin with, and then his word on the real happenings in St Louis is somehow golden?

Plus, the quotes in the Frowns' article don't prove Holmgren as lying. The quote lists St. Louis's offer that we already know and then say Cleveland's offer wasn't as good without listing Cleveland's offer - which is the same thing Holmgren did.

And really, the final best offer is stupid, especially when the Rams say in those same quotes that the offers would be final... unless the Rams decided that the offers weren't final.

With all that said, I hope they ditch Holmgren sooner than later.

Reasonable. Objective. Well thought-out.

Let's hope you start an epidemic.