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Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:47 am

peeker643 wrote:
swerb wrote:I just can't see Tate coming for anything less than the price tag of #37 overall.


The more you see of him the righter you may be.

That said, I'd rather not give that up. You can get Miller or Wilson at 37 or even wait and look for Doug Martin a round or two later.

Impression: Martin isn't a dynamic size/speed back, but there aren't many negatives to his game as a back. He plays fast, runs low, is natural through the line of scrimmage and has a skill set somewhat similar to former Alabama RB Mark Ingram last year. He might fall a bit because he doesn't run overly well, but he has the skill set to start in the league.


All three of those guys are a better value than Richardson at 4 though it's Wilson and Martin who are supposedly much better in blitz pickup.


I agree with you here except Miller IMO will not be there at 37
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:50 am

JCoz wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
swerb wrote:I just can't see Tate coming for anything less than the price tag of #37 overall.


The more you see of him the righter you may be.

That said, I'd rather not give that up. You can get Miller or Wilson at 37 or even wait and look for Doug Martin a round or two later.

Impression: Martin isn't a dynamic size/speed back, but there aren't many negatives to his game as a back. He plays fast, runs low, is natural through the line of scrimmage and has a skill set somewhat similar to former Alabama RB Mark Ingram last year. He might fall a bit because he doesn't run overly well, but he has the skill set to start in the league.


All three of those guys are a better value than Richardson at 4 though it's Wilson and Martin who are supposedly much better in blitz pickup.


I agree with you here except Miller IMO will not be there at 37


Probably right. Probably the most gifted pure runner but also the guy with most questions catching and blocking. Gotta get one of the three though because to me there's a drop off between those guys and the next level like Turbin and Polk.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:54 am

Spin wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:FWIW, I'm with Swerb and Trip-S on this. Is Hillis great? No. Good enough to bring back for a yr. or two? Yep.


OF COURSE HE WAS. THE BROWNS SAID REPEATEDLY THEY WERE TRYING TO BRING HIM BACK.


And you believed them?

The news today is they never made an offer.


And you believe that?

Hillis' agent at the time confirmed they had made an offer.

I don't know if he's received an offer since Week 3, but he definitely received an offer.

They also said recently that they wanted to re-sign him, but they were basically gonna let him test Free Agency first. He didn't bother testing - just took the first offer that came down the pike. He had absolutely no interest in signing here, something that should be blatantly clear by his taking a 1 year offer to be a backup.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:59 am

^^^^Agreed 100%
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:20 am

Hikohadon wrote:
Spin wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:FWIW, I'm with Swerb and Trip-S on this. Is Hillis great? No. Good enough to bring back for a yr. or two? Yep.


OF COURSE HE WAS. THE BROWNS SAID REPEATEDLY THEY WERE TRYING TO BRING HIM BACK.


And you believed them?

The news today is they never made an offer.


And you believe that?

Hillis' agent at the time confirmed they had made an offer.

I don't know if he's received an offer since Week 3, but he definitely received an offer.

They also said recently that they wanted to re-sign him, but they were basically gonna let him test Free Agency first. He didn't bother testing - just took the first offer that came down the pike. He had absolutely no interest in signing here, something that should be blatantly clear by his taking a 1 year offer to be a backup.


Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid. Shouldn't the union be getting involved for him turning down the chance to get a better deal?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:36 am

pup wrote:Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid.


He's also the guy who's spent the past year burning through agents and bridges like they were on sale. Dude is not all there.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:38 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
pup wrote:Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid.


He's also the guy who's spent the past year burning through agents and bridges like they were on sale. Dude is not all there.


80% of the league ain't all there. So he flips agents. Who the fuck cares? He filled a hole that did not need to be created.

Meanwhile, we are out paying marginal guys above value because we like them?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:55 am

pup wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
pup wrote:Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid.


He's also the guy who's spent the past year burning through agents and bridges like they were on sale. Dude is not all there.


He filled a hole that did not need to be created.



He did in 2010. In 2011 he helped create a hole that didn't exist. For whatever reason he had in his head, he did that.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:03 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
pup wrote:Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid.


He's also the guy who's spent the past year burning through agents and bridges like they were on sale. Dude is not all there.


He filled a hole that did not need to be created.



He did in 2010. In 2011 he helped create a hole that didn't exist. For whatever reason he had in his head, he did that.


Or they created a hole where he was supposed to be, even with him there.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:05 pm

What is worse? Offering a guy 3 and 16 that is only worth 1 and 3 or giving up a guy for nothing you considered to be a 3 and 16 guy?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:07 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
pup wrote:Yes, Peyton Hillis is now the one guy that doesn't want to get paid.


He's also the guy who's spent the past year burning through agents and bridges like they were on sale. Dude is not all there.


He filled a hole that did not need to be created.



He did in 2010. In 2011 he helped create a hole that didn't exist. For whatever reason he had in his head, he did that.


Exactly. We knew months ago dude was unreliable and unlikely to be coming back.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Agree 100% Peeks, I can't understand any blame on the Browns end. Rb's salaries are trending downward in relation to other postions. The 3/16 if true was a better contract than he is every likely to get moving forward.

He's a head case and to say that he's like 80% league is ridiculous. The guy flat out quit last year and threw temper tantrums like he was 2 years old. What we saw this year is hardly common.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:14 pm

JCoz wrote:Agree 100% Peeks, I can't understand any blame on the Browns end. Rb's salaries are trending downward in relation to other postions. The 3/16 if true was a better contract than he is every likely to get moving forward.

He's a head case and to say that he's like 80% league is ridiculous. The guy flat out quit last year and threw temper tantrums like he was 2 years old. What we saw this year is hardly common.


Can he run the football better than anyone else on this roster? If you say anything but yes you are being a flat out liar. There are about 5 NFL players on that roster and they treated 1 of them like he was crap. Why? Because he wasn't "their guy". Mangini wanted him, they got him for Mangini, he performed, they fired Mangini to hire this shmuck and then treated Hillis like a dog.

Look around boys. You are with him (Mikey Mike) or you are against him. You are one of his guys, or you are gone. Has nothing to do with performance. When Shurmur rolls out another 5-11 (if we catch a few breaks) what will be the excuse to retain him?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:16 pm

pup wrote:Can he run the football better than anyone else on this roster? If you say anything but yes you are being a flat out liar. There are about 5 NFL players on that roster and they treated 1 of them like he was crap. Why? Because he wasn't "their guy". Mangini wanted him, they got him for Mangini, he performed, they fired Mangini to hire this shmuck and then treated Hillis like a dog.

Look around boys. You are with him (Mikey Mike) or you are against him. You are one of his guys, or you are gone. Has nothing to do with performance. When Shurmur rolls out another 5-11 (if we catch a few breaks) what will be the excuse to retain him?


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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:21 pm

And before I eject from the thread, I'll note that the guy who can 'run the football better than anyone else on this roster' and is one of 'about 5 NFL players on that roster' took a one-year three-mil contract to handle Jamal Charles's gatorade breaks. 31 other teams weren't breaking down his door.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:22 pm

pup wrote:What is worse? Offering a guy 3 and 16 that is only worth 1 and 3 or giving up a guy for nothing you considered to be a 3 and 16 guy?


To be fair to both sides, they offered the 3/16 before he went Colonel Flagg.

What I know is the org has shown me nothing and the player showed me too much in terms of baggage.

You guys think I want to see holes or the "growth" retarded? Just saying every single team in NFL history has won their title w/o Peyton Hillis and he was 9-23 when he was here.

Certainly not the problem when on the field, but eminently replaceable and probably cheaply so. What was he making when he came here and ripped off 1500 and 11?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:26 pm

pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:Agree 100% Peeks, I can't understand any blame on the Browns end. Rb's salaries are trending downward in relation to other postions. The 3/16 if true was a better contract than he is every likely to get moving forward.

He's a head case and to say that he's like 80% league is ridiculous. The guy flat out quit last year and threw temper tantrums like he was 2 years old. What we saw this year is hardly common.


Can he run the football better than anyone else on this roster? If you say anything but yes you are being a flat out liar. There are about 5 NFL players on that roster and they treated 1 of them like he was crap. Why? Because he wasn't "their guy". Mangini wanted him, they got him for Mangini, he performed, they fired Mangini to hire this shmuck and then treated Hillis like a dog.

Look around boys. You are with him (Mikey Mike) or you are against him. You are one of his guys, or you are gone. Has nothing to do with performance. When Shurmur rolls out another 5-11 (if we catch a few breaks) what will be the excuse to retain him?


Yeah I'm thinking I'm good with him walking if he wants to take 1 year 3 million dollar deals, cutting off his nose to spite his face and I'm not buying into your tirade.

Dude doesn't add wins to this team.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:14 pm

pup wrote:
JCoz wrote:Agree 100% Peeks, I can't understand any blame on the Browns end. Rb's salaries are trending downward in relation to other postions. The 3/16 if true was a better contract than he is every likely to get moving forward.

He's a head case and to say that he's like 80% league is ridiculous. The guy flat out quit last year and threw temper tantrums like he was 2 years old. What we saw this year is hardly common.


Can he run the football better than anyone else on this roster? If you say anything but yes you are being a flat out liar. There are about 5 NFL players on that roster and they treated 1 of them like he was crap. Why? Because he wasn't "their guy". Mangini wanted him, they got him for Mangini, he performed, they fired Mangini to hire this shmuck and then treated Hillis like a dog.

Look around boys. You are with him (Mikey Mike) or you are against him. You are one of his guys, or you are gone. Has nothing to do with performance. When Shurmur rolls out another 5-11 (if we catch a few breaks) what will be the excuse to retain him?


Your agenda gets so old sometimes. Every fucking thing has to be Holmgren's fault. If the transmission goes out on your car, it was Holmgren's fault. If you come down with the clap, it was Holmgren's fault. Just challenge him to a duel already.

It is utterly clear that Hillis wanted out of Cleveland whether they made him a new offer or not. He waited all of one day to sign a BS contract with another team to be a backup. You think he called the Browns to see if they could beat the KC offer?

I don't know all that took place between Hillis and the Org, but I do know that even his fellow players weren't on Hillis' side. You remember players complaining about him and pulling him into interventions, right? So whatever antics Hillis was pulling wasn't in conjunction with "80% of the league". 80% of the league just called and said "Fuck you, I ain't no Hillis!"

It sucks that he left. It does create a hole which needs filled. Fortunately, it won't be that hard to fill, since RB's like Hillis (and RB's in general) are pretty easy to come by.

He is not great. He is not special. He is ordinary. He is better than anything we currently have on the roster, but he is very replaceable. He was in such demand that he signed a low one-year deal. He was in such demand that he couldn't even get a starting job.

They won 5 games when he had the best season he's ever gonna have. They won 4 games when he was pretty much a no-show. Apparently, Peyton Hillis makes such a huge difference that the Browns are able to win one more game with him.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:24 pm

With the roster as is today, and the subtle hints that we have no big plans for free agency, this team might 4 games.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:41 pm

Who led that intervention?

Hmmmmmm. Seneca Wallace maybe.

Just sayin.

And you know what happens when you are the HMFIC? And take a $10M/year deal? Everything is on your shoulders. If they were Super Bowl contenders, you better damn believe his fat mug would be front and center with everything that is Cleveland Brown football.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:09 pm

pup wrote:Who led that intervention?

Hmmmmmm. Seneca Wallace maybe.

Just sayin.

And you know what happens when you are the HMFIC? And take a $10M/year deal? Everything is on your shoulders. If they were Super Bowl contenders, you better damn believe his fat mug would be front and center with everything that is Cleveland Brown football.


I was under the impression that Wallace just talked about it. I thought it was DQ or Sheldon.

Even if it was Wallace, who cares? It wasn't like he acted alone. There were supposedly several players at the intevention, players who clearly agreed with the backup QB over the starting RB.

HMFIC has plenty that IS his fault that he will have to answer for should he continue to fail. Shurmur sure looks like a bad choice. Some of the personnel decisions have been bad. He tried but failed to get RG3. His worst fuck-up was not firing Mangini right away - that was a wasted year because of it. Plenty of faults for Heckgren.

But if you look at it objectively, Hillis walking ain't one of them - at least in my opinion. Or if we are meting out blame, 80% of it is Hillis'.

It is completely illogical to blame 100% of issues on the HMFIC. But I guess fan <> logic.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:22 pm

What I find interesting is we had Mangini, who had a purposeful clean house attitude and rid our locker room of bad apples and what not (admittedly we lost a bit of pure talent in the process). With that we obviously had mixed results, did do things more as a team, but ultimately were not good.

Then the new HMFIC in charge comes in, Holmgren with is shiny pedigree and Mt. Olympia type reputation. First thing he does is wastes a full year by retaining Mangini for 1 more year in a completely disingenuous manner. Then with the Walrus' pick at GM & HC in place we decide to take on this clean house approach again but not retaining a potentially bad apples in Hillis (who just so happens to be one of our best 3 players the past 2 seasons). So again, we allow talent to walk away for the sake of team/attitude, yet we ultimately have the same results as the prior regime....sucking.

So how has anything really changed, in terms of decision making and who we're molding the team in likeness of?
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:30 pm

FUDU wrote:What I find interesting is we had Mangini, who had a purposeful clean house attitude and rid our locker room of bad apples and what not (admittedly we lost a bit of pure talent in the process). With that we obviously had mixed results, did do things more as a team, but ultimately were not good.

Then the new HMFIC in charge comes in, Holmgren with is shiny pedigree and Mt. Olympia type reputation. First thing he does is wastes a full year by retaining Mangini for 1 more year in a completely disingenuous manner. Then with the Walrus' pick at GM & HC in place we decide to take on this clean house approach again but not retaining a potentially bad apples in Hillis (who just so happens to be one of our best 3 players the past 2 seasons). So again, we allow talent to walk away for the sake of team/attitude, yet we ultimately have the same results as the prior regime....sucking.

So how has anything really changed, in terms of decision making and who we're molding the team in likeness of?


You obviously think more of Hillis than I do. I'm not sure he was even one of the top 30 players last season.

You obviously think more of Hillis than Heckert/Holmgren do.

You obviously think more of Hillis than the entire rest of the NFL apparently does since all he managed was a backup role and a 1 year contract.

So I dispute that they let "talent" walk away, since Hillis is middle-of-the-road talented.

Why is no one bemoaning that the Browns let Mike Adams get away? Oh, because he's ordinary.

Agree that the year they kept Mangini was a complete waste and a huge mistake.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:38 pm

Who else put any type of scare in opposing defense for us, other than Hillis? Not a stud, not even the most reliable of good backs, but better than anyone else we had carry the ball for us, for a few years at that. I've give them the BOD for now that they will upgrade the RB position through the draft.

But again, how is he decision making/approach : results any different?

We just have different names on the doors of the offices of the people of the questionable decision making of our lack of results team.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:50 pm

FUDU wrote:Who else put any type of scare in opposing defense for us, other than Hillis? Not a stud, not even the most reliable of good backs, but better than anyone else we had carry the ball for us, for a few years at that. I've give them the BOD for now that they will upgrade the RB position through the draft.

But again, how is he decision making/approach : results any different?

We just have different names on the doors of the offices of the people of the questionable decision making of our lack of results team.


Again, the difference is that Hillis isn't overly talented.

I don't think Hillis scares anyone. Teams have figured out that if you shut it down between the tackles and force him to go east/west, Hillis is useless.

He's a serviceable back, and it would've been nice to not have to fill the hole. But maybe they'll have to replace him with someone who IS truly talented.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:51 pm

pup wrote:Who led that intervention?
.



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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby antikryct » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm

FUDU wrote:Who else put any type of scare in opposing defense for us, other than Hillis? Not a stud, not even the most reliable of good backs, but better than anyone else we had carry the ball for us, for a few years at that. I've give them the BOD for now that they will upgrade the RB position through the draft.

But again, how is he decision making/approach : results any different?

We just have different names on the doors of the offices of the people of the questionable decision making of our lack of results team.


2010 Hillis and 2011 Hillis are two totally different backs. Time will tell which one the Chiefs just signed. We had a 50/50 shot at best of that guy showing back up had we signed him. Probably even less if he's with us on a 3/1 since you know he'd be feeling slighted.

And for the record, I don't like letting Mike Adams go. Dude's an unsung hero as far as I'm concerned. Every roster needs 5 or 6 of those kinda guys.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:28 pm

antikryct wrote:
FUDU wrote:Who else put any type of scare in opposing defense for us, other than Hillis? Not a stud, not even the most reliable of good backs, but better than anyone else we had carry the ball for us, for a few years at that. I've give them the BOD for now that they will upgrade the RB position through the draft.

But again, how is he decision making/approach : results any different?

We just have different names on the doors of the offices of the people of the questionable decision making of our lack of results team.


2010 Hillis and 2011 Hillis are two totally different backs. Time will tell which one the Chiefs just signed. We had a 50/50 shot at best of that guy showing back up had we signed him. Probably even less if he's with us on a 3/1 since you know he'd be feeling slighted.

And for the record, I don't like letting Mike Adams go. Dude's an unsung hero as far as I'm concerned. Every roster needs 5 or 6 of those kinda guys.


If by "those kind of guys" you mean mediocre and replacable, we have way more than 5 or 6 of them.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby pod2dawg » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:15 pm

Loved Hillis 2010.

I don't know who that was in his uni last year.

I have been forced to accept his running style does not bode well. He can't last. Will never be a full time back.

That said, all we had.

We have nobody now.

Our best back/wr/st may be cribbs.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby Spin » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:16 pm

Triple-S wrote:Izod Indycar is calling my name, and at least they don't fucking treat their fans like garbage year in and year out.


I hear ya. They are definitely back on the right track with Randy Bernard in charge.

Cleveland's Own Roger Penske looks to be the team to beat. He brought back the Detroit Grand Prix from the dead, hopefully Cleveland is next. It was a real success when his promotions team ran it.

St. Pete can't get here soon enough. Not a big fan of street races, but I want to see the new cars and engines.

If you're looking for an IndyCar forum, check out speed.com. There are all kinds of characters there. And besides them, we have some good discussions.
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Re: Add RB to the list of offensive needs, Hillis a Chief

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:06 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
antikryct wrote:
FUDU wrote:Who else put any type of scare in opposing defense for us, other than Hillis? Not a stud, not even the most reliable of good backs, but better than anyone else we had carry the ball for us, for a few years at that. I've give them the BOD for now that they will upgrade the RB position through the draft.

But again, how is he decision making/approach : results any different?

We just have different names on the doors of the offices of the people of the questionable decision making of our lack of results team.


2010 Hillis and 2011 Hillis are two totally different backs. Time will tell which one the Chiefs just signed. We had a 50/50 shot at best of that guy showing back up had we signed him. Probably even less if he's with us on a 3/1 since you know he'd be feeling slighted.

And for the record, I don't like letting Mike Adams go. Dude's an unsung hero as far as I'm concerned. Every roster needs 5 or 6 of those kinda guys.


If by "those kind of guys" you mean mediocre and replacable, we have way more than 5 or 6 of them.


The reason they pull down about 4 wins a year is cause guys like Mike Adams have inundated the squad.
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