2012 NFL Free Agency

[pup]

Pierre Garcon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone we have

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Pierre Garcon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone we have

Did someone back a bus over Greg Little when I wasn't looking?

[swerb]

When Greg Little learns to actually catch the ball, then we can start to compare him to veteran recievers that can.

Garcon was likely overpaid, yes. As almost all free agents are. He's far superior to any reciever we have on this roster. We have nothing except one guy that could be good. Or that could be Quincy Morgan.

[JCoz]

Hy would Houston trade him for a 3rd, or at all? It's certainly not selling high if they spent a 2nd on him to begin with....

[Hikohadon]

Lord god above, you guys are upset that the Browns didn't pay Pierre Fucking Garcon 9 mil a year? PIERRE GARCON???



There's like 10 guys better than him in the draft.

And, yes, I'd take Little over Garcon every day. Did Garcon have over 60 catches and 700 yard his rookie year? No - 4 catches for 23 yards.

What does that mean? THAT A PLAYER'S ROOKIE SEASON DOESN'T DETERMINE THE ENTIRE BODY OF HIS WORK. Little has twice (at least) the potential that Garcon had coming into the league. It's all about Little realizing said potential (and it wouldn't hurt if they got a non-retarded QB).

I like Garcon OK and was kind of hoping the Browns could sign him to a decent deal after all the big-name FA WR's had signed the mega-deals, but NO WAY do I pay him elite WR money like that. There's overpaying to get FA's to come to your team, then there's fucking insanity.

[swerb]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

[pup]

I was simply saying that Pierre Garcon is better than anyone the Browns have. Has nothing to do with how much he got paid. Someone said he stunk.

If Greg Little was a magic free agent today, who is giving him Garcon's contract? Nobody. Why? Because he is not as good, today, as Pierre Garcon is.

[Hikohadon]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

Respectfully disagree. It is close, to the point where if the 2 of them were Free Agents and cost the same, I'd take Little every time. Garcon comes here, Little still gets the other team's #1 Corner.

You think Garcon can't still bust out? I think the odds are quite good.

Little slipped to the 2nd round. Garcon slipped to undrafted.

But this is splitting hairs. We both agree that the Browns should not have picked him up at that asking price. Whether he is better than Little or not is irrelevant.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round

Yes, because he hadn't seen a football field in a year. Same reason Marvin Austin slipped to "almost the third round".

Most people call those "late second rounders", unless if they're deliberately belittling a player to try and prove a point.

[peeker643]

Really hard to say which organization is more fucking pathetic, the Browns or the Plain Dealer.

I will say both are giving it their best to win a very close race.

[skatingtripods]

Really hard to say which organization is more fucking pathetic, the Browns or the Plain Dealer.

I will say both are giving it their best to win a very close race.

Has the PD plagiarized from us again recently?

[jb]

Really hard to say which organization is more fucking pathetic, the Browns or the Plain Dealer.

I will say both are giving it their best to win a very close race.

Has the PD plagiarized from us again recently?

Might want to think that transitive property through....

[Lubber]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

Respectfully disagree. It is close, to the point where if the 2 of them were Free Agents and cost the same, I'd take Little every time. Garcon comes here, Little still gets the other team's #1 Corner.

You think Garcon can't still bust out? I think the odds are quite good.

Little slipped to the 2nd round. Garcon slipped to undrafted.

But this is splitting hairs. We both agree that the Browns should not have picked him up at that asking price. Whether he is better than Little or not is irrelevant.

I take Garçon over Little any day of the week. The reason he slipped to undrafted is because he went to MUC. He almost had 1000 yards with Painter and Orlosky tossing the pigskin.

One day, Little might get there. But right now Gracon has him. Would I pay the money he got if I were the Browns? Probably not unless at was the only missing piece of the puzzle.

[Triple-S]

Browns. hands down.

the level of fail at every level is unmatched.

-the way the front office handles things from bringing in talent to how injuries are handled.

-the way the team itself treats fans at game, and even in during training camp.

what a joke.If not for my stupid loyalty, I'd have jumped ship long a go.

[Hikohadon]

What is totally awesome is the fact that here we sit in the first full day of Free Agency and this place is deader than Corey Haim. Interest in the Cleveland Browns is at an all time high. Yeah!

Maybe I should select my Adopt-A-Team early this year. I've got my eye on the Lions and Seahawks this year.

[metalhead9x9]

What is totally awesome is the fact that here we sit in the first full day of Free Agency and this place is deader than Corey Haim. Interest in the Cleveland Browns is at an all time high. Yeah!

Maybe I should select my Adopt-A-Team early this year. I've got my eye on the Lions and Seahawks this year.

The Indians and Cavs Forums yearn for this level of deadness when they do diddly shit on their first day of free agency.

[swerb]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

[peeker643]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

Let's make it CDT's car and I'm with ya.

[pup]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

Let's make it CDT's car and I'm with ya.

Can we drive it into Mos dental office first?

[googleeph2]

Peeker, you ever adjust a claim that was caused by you?

[Triple-S]

Apparently the Browns signed Frostee Rucker

[googleeph2]

Apparently the Browns signed Frostee Rucker

Can you say Frosty Rucker five times real fast?

[Hikohadon]

Apparently the Browns signed Frostee Rucker.

Dammit. I was looking forward to a good ol' fashioned car fire.

Rucker... yeah, he's OK. Better than Jayme Mitchell. Decent rotational guy.

Now get 6 more FA's like that to get this team some damn depth.

[skatingtripods]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

Does Frostee Rucker count as someone? Or, by "sign someone", did you mean somebody of legitimate significance?

[JCoz]

What is totally awesome is the fact that here we sit in the first full day of Free Agency and this place is deader than Corey Haim. Interest in the Cleveland Browns is at an all time high. Yeah!

Maybe I should select my Adopt-A-Team early this year. I've got my eye on the Lions and Seahawks this year.

That should be the expectation, we all understood that the browns would only pursue plan C players and below, and that action usually doesn't pick up until a few days or even week into FA. I'm still checking here and twitter every hour or two trying to find some idea of who we are even looking at....Can't believe the draft is still a month away. This blows.

[Gradysmanldy]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

Respectfully disagree. It is close, to the point where if the 2 of them were Free Agents and cost the same, I'd take Little every time. Garcon comes here, Little still gets the other team's #1 Corner.

You think Garcon can't still bust out? I think the odds are quite good.

Little slipped to the 2nd round. Garcon slipped to undrafted.

But this is splitting hairs. We both agree that the Browns should not have picked him up at that asking price. Whether he is better than Little or not is irrelevant.

I take Garçon over Little any day of the week. The reason he slipped to undrafted is because he went to MUC. He almost had 1000 yards with Painter and Orlosky tossing the pigskin.

One day, Little might get there. But right now Gracon has him. Would I pay the money he got if I were the Browns? Probably not unless at was the only missing piece of the puzzle.

This is disingenuous on many, many levels.

Greg Little, 2011: 61 (targets) 121 (catches) 709 (yds) 11.6 (per) 2(tds)

Pierre Garcon: Pierre Garcon: 70 (targets) 134 (catches) 947 (yds) 13.5 (per) 6 (tds)

So, lets analyze these numbers. Garcon caught a whopping 13 catches more for the season, on 9 more attempts. (So his percentage is 52%, compared to GL's 50%) Little was a RAW rookie who barely saw any action in his first few games, in large part because he HADNT PLAYED im over a year. (7 catches through 3 weeks) GL didn't have anyone on the opposite side of the field taking attention away from him. (Versus Garcon who had Reggie Wayne out yonder)

The most important stat to me, however, is the following: 41 to 28 targets within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. The Browns run a bullshit archaic form of the West coast offense, and regardless of the merits of Painter/Orlovsky vs. Colteca Mcwallace, the Colts offense is designed to air the ball out.

Adjusting for offenses and the time spent integrating Little into the offense.... in 2012, i'd say the difference between Garcon and Little is completely negligible. YMMV, but it appears nearly every analyst/writer agrees with me that he was MASSIVELY overpaid by the Skins. Shit, I feel like Morgan is already a better receiver.

Regardless of whether you think Garcon is better, the point remains that he sure as F*** isn't 8M$ better. He's a decent #2 option on a team with an established #1 WR, and......we already have that.

[Gradysmanldy]

Apparently the Browns signed Frostee Rucker.

Dammit. I was looking forward to a good ol' fashioned car fire.

Rucker... yeah, he's OK. Better than Jayme Mitchell. Decent rotational guy.

Now get 6 more FA's like that to get this team some damn depth.

Agreed. Get a legitimate pass rushing DE in the top end of the draft to pair with Sheard and use Paxson and Frostee as depth, and it's a D-line I can live with.

[peeker643]

Peeker, you ever adjust a claim that was caused by you?

You know I can't answer that

[JCoz]

People keep labeling new deals as overpaid....the prices will keep going up, and free agen deals are anything but a deal. Megaton just got a deal 3x bigger that this one by every measure. There is your new scale. Garçons check is about in line with what should be expected and will look much less of a big deal over the life of it.

That said I wouldn't want him, really I wouldn't want any FA WR.....unless you are an established team with a QB getting a vet on the cheap. Vjax's deal does look like a bargain by comparison though that's the baggage weighing in, IMO.

[swerb]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

Does Frostee Rucker count as someone? Or, by "sign someone", did you mean somebody of legitimate significance?

If Frostee Rucker is the only signing, I'm going to light a Mini-Cooper on fire.

[peeker643]

I know some people are so soured on this organization that this won't matter, and I get that, but the Rucker signing is a solid signing. The guy is a legit (when healthy) starting RDE that gives the Browns a legit top 5-10 DL from Jump Street.

He had a nice year last year, he's 28, he was allegedly a priority re-sign for the Bengals going ointo free agency and now you don't spend that 4th on Coples so you can eliminate that right now and look elsewhere. No need to consider effing with Sheard's comfort on the left side either.

Now go get Reggie Nelson from that team too and really stick it to their defense.

[pup]

I know some people are so soured on this organization that this won't matter, and I get that, but the Rucker signing is a solid signing. The guy is a legit (when healthy) starting RDE that gives the Browns a legit top 5-10 DL from Jump Street.

He had a nice year last year, he's 28, he was allegedly a priority re-sign for the Bengals going ointo free agency and now you don't spend that 4th on Coples so you can eliminate that right now and look elsewhere.

Now go get Reggie Nelson from that team too and really stick it to their defense.

Agreed on all accounts.

They are still shitty

[Gradysmanldy]

Just had a flashback to Major League, the groundskeepers saying, "They're still shitty" or something

[skatingtripods]

I'm lighting a car on fire if we don't sign someone by midnight.

Does Frostee Rucker count as someone? Or, by "sign someone", did you mean somebody of legitimate significance?

If Frostee Rucker is the only signing, I'm going to light a Mini-Cooper on fire.

Well, that's good. So our next "depth" signing will move you down to a Smart Car. So it'll take at least two more players before you abandon your desire to set a car on fire.

[Hikohadon]

Just had a flashback to Major League, the groundskeepers saying, "They're still shitty" or something

I think that was his intent.

[Hikohadon]

Sounds like Steinbach is getting released. Not a surprise (which doesn't mean someone won't flip out about this like they just set his mother on fire). His cap # was $6 or $7 mil, he's in his 30's, and he's coming off major injury. Also sounds like he might re-sign for less.

From Steinbach:

"It has been a good ride in Cleveland and I hope it can continue. I'm proud to say that the offensive line has been a bright spot through the past few seasons. It has been a privilege to play for the city of Cleveland and it's rich tradition. Mr. Lerner has always treated me with respect and I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to work for him and his organization. I will continue to work with the Browns through my agent in hopes of striking a deal that is practical and fair for both sides. In the mean time, I will explore other opportunities. If I do move on, I want to thank the people and fans of Cleveland who have treated my family and I with great support and hospitality. If my time here comes to an end, I want the people of this great city to remember one thing; "You stay classy Cleveland!"

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Browns-set-to-release-Steinbach.html

[JCoz]

I know some people are so soured on this organization that this won't matter, and I get that, but the Rucker signing is a solid signing. The guy is a legit (when healthy) starting RDE that gives the Browns a legit top 5-10 DL from Jump Street.

He had a nice year last year, he's 28, he was allegedly a priority re-sign for the Bengals going ointo free agency and now you don't spend that 4th on Coples so you can eliminate that right now and look elsewhere. No need to consider effing with Sheard's comfort on the left side either.

Now go get Reggie Nelson from that team too and really stick it to their defense.

Nah I agree, and I definitely thought all along that DE was the most realistic position to address in free agency for us. There were several solid options that at least let you put off addressing that in the first 2 rounds this year.

RT Should be another considering the bar set for improvement.

[Hikohadon]

Take that $6-$7 mil you save from cutting Steinbach and use that to overpay a RT.

[peeker643]

Not sure of bonus but still had to overpay for even Rucker at 4yrs/$20million.

It is what it is here. Gonna have to do that until you're not a door mat and people want to come here for wins and organizational strength over just plain cash.

[peeker643]

Steinbach and his agent, Jack Bechta (a contributor at the National Football Post) have released the following joint statement to the NFP:

“Eric Steinbach could part ways with the Cleveland Browns. Asked to take a significant salary reduction in late February, the two sides have not been able to reach an agreement on a new deal, so Steinbach has asked for his release. However, the two sides will keep talking while Steinbach will simultaneously explore the free agent market.”

From Steinbach:

"It has been a good ride in Cleveland and I hope it can continue. I'm proud to say that the offensive line has been a bright spot through the past few seasons. It has been a privilege to play for the city of Cleveland and it's rich tradition. Mr. Lerner has always treated me with respect and I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to work for him and his organization. I will continue to work with the Browns through my agent in hopes of striking a deal that is practical and fair for both sides. In the mean time, I will explore other opportunities. If I do move on, I want to thank the people and fans of Cleveland who have treated my family and I with great support and hospitality.

[Hikohadon]

Not sure of bonus but still had to overpay for even Rucker at 4yrs/$20million.

It is what it is here. Gonna have to do that until you're not a door mat and people want to come here for wins and organizational strength over just plain cash.

Yeah, an ah-ight signing with an ah-ight contract (comparably). Still, need more of these.

Way better than a 5 year, $37.5 mil ($15.5 guaranteed) contract for Eric fucking Wright. Geezus.

[JCoz]

Take that $6-$7 mil you save from cutting Steinbach and use that to overpay a RT.

Begging for this.

Brown or Winston, pay up and get it done.

[peeker643]

Take that $6-$7 mil you save from cutting Steinbach and use that to overpay a RT.

Begging for this.

Brown or Winston, pay up and get it done.

And now you have another little hole at either RG or LG.

If Steinbach is healthy you have your LG and then let Pinkston and Lauvao battle it out for RG with other as depth. Not a fan of that though I agree I could live with a big time RT and Pinkston staying at LG.

[JCoz]

Not sure of bonus but still had to overpay for even Rucker at 4yrs/$20million.

It is what it is here. Gonna have to do that until you're not a door mat and people want to come here for wins and organizational strength over just plain cash.

Enough whining about "overpayment" ...whoa is me Cleveland...There are about 5-6 teams in the league that get FA discounts. The other 26 overpay in free agency.

I'm just saying....its a little silly to bother pointing out overpaying a guy by a mil a year or so, don't you think? Why is that even worth noting?

[JCoz]

Take that $6-$7 mil you save from cutting Steinbach and use that to overpay a RT.

Begging for this.

Brown or Winston, pay up and get it done.

And now you have another little hole at either RG or LG.

If Steinbach is healthy you have your LG and then let Pinkston and Lauvao battle it out for RG with other as depth. Not a fan of that though I agree I could live with a big time RT and Pinkston staying at LG.

Rather have issues at Guard than at Tackle...no telling what condition Steinbach is even in

[JCoz]

Now go get Reggie Nelson from that team too and really stick it to their defense.

has anyone even heard if they are interested in Reggie? It would be really nice to get a safety. Adams is visiting Buffalo,lose him and I don't know what the heck you have back there...

Maybe Jim Leonhard I think the jets let him go, didn't they?

[Hikohadon]

Now go get Reggie Nelson from that team too and really stick it to their defense.

has anyone even heard if they are interested in Reggie? It would be really nice to get a safety. Adams is visiting Buffalo,lose him and I don't know what the heck you have back there...

Maybe Jim Leonhard I think the jets let him go, didn't they?

I'd be shocked if they sign a Safety b/c that's where they're moving Big Sheldon when they draft Claiborne.

[JCoz]

Thats been the popular assumption but can Brown even do that? I thought he was pretty much done

I'd rather sign someone like Leonhard on the cheap than put brown out there.

[peeker643]

Not sure of bonus but still had to overpay for even Rucker at 4yrs/$20million.

It is what it is here. Gonna have to do that until you're not a door mat and people want to come here for wins and organizational strength over just plain cash.

Enough whining about "overpayment" ...whoa is me Cleveland...There are about 5-6 teams in the league that get FA discounts. The other 26 overpay in free agency.

I'm just saying....its a little silly to bother pointing out overpaying a guy by a mil a year or so, don't you think? Why is that even worth noting?

Because you don't wanna overpay? You send in more than you owe to the utility company?

I get your point. Hard to even say they overpaid really unless you know the bonus amount. So probably dumb to complain about cash until the bonus amount is known.

But you still don't want to overpay. Far more prefer to be on the end where guys take loss to play here.

[peeker643]

Thats been the popular assumption but can Brown even do that? I thought he was pretty much done

I'd rather sign someone like Leonhard on the cheap than put brown out there.

Can Leonhard walk yet?