Official Tribe Spring Training Thread

[peeker643]

Didn't see one. Put it in here unless it's specific to something else.

Let's start it off with this link to Andrew Clayman's excellent article now on the front page.

Check out MIKE ROUSE'S awesome spring numbers!!!!! And Travis Buck !!! Jason Dubois!!!

One day Shelley Duncan will be up in that rarefied spring air.

http://bit.ly/wK1JaL

[redneckofsc]

Is there anywhere on there where it compares BP's stats to Ramon Vazquez's?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I have not seen a single second of spring training. I have no idea what's been going on. Probably nothing but a bunch of overpaid jackasses hamming it up in the desert. Maybe Pronk got people talking because he hit a 500ft HR off the ace of the The Desert Hills American Legion Posts "9 fingers McGruder".

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

DVRed yesterday's "miked up" game and watched it while Kyrie Irving beat Denver with a last-second shot.

Jason Kipnis and Shin-Soo Choo smashed HRs on back-to-back pitches. Hannahan hit a granna-slam.

Both games equally relevant.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Is spring training on STO or FSOH? Is that new to this year? I don't ever remember watching spring ball..

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Yesterday's was on MLB Network. They basically just put microphones everywhere they could think of and billed it as "sounds of the game." The announcer pretty much just said the players names when they came to back and pointed out a few interesting tidbits the player said.

It's where Kipnis singing Adele came from.

Some other spring training games will be on STO, I'm sure.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Cool thanks, that mic'd up business sounds like it would be pretty cool I guess. The days of me being able to afford MLB/NFL Network are slowly approaching, so I got that going for me.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

If you have Time Warner Cable, you already have MLB Network. And MLB TV. NFL Network is not part of it.

[LakeErieWarriors]

I have non-digital Buckeye CableSystem (North Central OH) I know you can feel my pain.

[T_N_T]

Today's Indians vs Padres Spring Training game on STO is being simulcast on MLB Network, I don't know if its blacked out in the Indians market on MLBNet, I am in Tennessee and can see both feeds(STO on 662 and MLBNet on 213) on DirecTV.

[T_N_T]

Today's Indians vs Padres Spring Training game on STO is being simulcast on MLB Network, I don't know if its blacked out in the Indians market on MLBNet, I am in Tennessee and can see both feeds(STO on 662 and MLBNet on 213) on DirecTV.

Todays game against the Diamondbacks will once again be simulcast on MLB Network Channel 213 on DirecTV and channel 152 on Dish(Network)

[skatingtripods]

In 3 innings and 50 some odd pitches, I think Ubaldo got 1, maybe 2, swings and misses. If he had any.

Only sitting around 91 with the velo. Release point issues all over the place. Didn't look real sharp again. Probably working on things, but not an uplifting outing.

[T_N_T]

It looks like for some reason MLB Network is showing today's game on that channel delayed

[T_N_T]

Todays game against the Rangers will once again be simulcast on MLB Network at 4:05 PM Eastern (It will be live on MLB Network Today). Also WMMS 100.7 FM will be carrying the Indians Radio Network Flagship feed today due to the Cavs game being on WTAM tonight.

[T_N_T]

What is with Josh Tomlin today? He seems all out of whack, I really hope he figures this out by his first regular season start, he looks lost out there today.

[skatingtripods]

What is with Josh Tomlin today? He seems all out of whack, I really hope he figures this out by his first regular season start, he looks lost out there today.

Contact pitcher on a warm Arizona afternoon like a lamb to slaughter. Like a white hood to a NAACP meeting. Wind-aided 3B, wind-aided 2-run HR.

Looks like he's working on a two-seam fastball this Spring. It kept coming back over the middle of the plate. I don't remember him throwing a two-seamer last year. If you don't aim off the corner, it's going right down the middle. Probably trying to add another pitch to his arsenal that can help him jam righties since 12 of their 67 hits off him were HRs last year.

Didn't throw any curve balls that I saw. Handful of changeups. You can't really evaluate these Spring starts. Guys are predominantly throwing one or two pitches their entire outing.

He'll be fine. He's susceptible to outings like this though because he gets very few swings and misses.

[T_N_T]

What is with Josh Tomlin today? He seems all out of whack, I really hope he figures this out by his first regular season start, he looks lost out there today.

Contact pitcher on a warm Arizona afternoon like a lamb to slaughter. Like a white hood to a NAACP meeting. Wind-aided 3B, wind-aided 2-run HR.

Looks like he's working on a two-seam fastball this Spring. It kept coming back over the middle of the plate. I don't remember him throwing a two-seamer last year. If you don't aim off the corner, it's going right down the middle. Probably trying to add another pitch to his arsenal that can help him jam righties since 12 of their 67 hits off him were HRs last year.

Didn't throw any curve balls that I saw. Handful of changeups. You can't really evaluate these Spring starts. Guys are predominantly throwing one or two pitches their entire outing.

He'll be fine. He's susceptible to outings like this though because he gets very few swings and misses.

So what your saying is that they might as well be playing tee-ball out there right now? You just confirmed my point on how pointless/stupid spring training is, why can't we just scratch some of these games and start the regular season earlier? I also despise that the games are in an unofficial capacity(meaning the leagues don't match the regular season leagues), who was the clown who came up with Spring Training?

[peeker643]

If that was onfirming your point then why are you gripping about Tomlin's outing? If you know these guys use the time to get loose and get ready then why watch? And if you're gonnna watch then shouldn't you temper your criticism given what you know?

[Jumbo]

why can't we just scratch some of these games and start the regular season earlier?

Because pitchers need to stretch out their arms.

That's it.

[gotribe31]

Spring training itself matters. Spring training stats and wins/losses, for the most part, do not matter. See Perez, Pure Rage for the best example of why spring training is necessary.

[T_N_T]

Could we make it so whichever AL or NL league combined team wins in Spring Training, that league(the AL or NL) gets home field advantage in the World Series? And make the All-Star count for nothing again?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Sloth had a pretty good interview. He looks somewhat human with a beard.

The Indians should all grow beards. That's how you become a winner. Beards.

[T_N_T]

Wow, turned out to be an interesting game. Tied 8-8 in the bottom of the ninth

[skatingtripods]

So what your saying is that they might as well be playing tee-ball out there right now? You just confirmed my point on how pointless/stupid spring training is, why can't we just scratch some of these games and start the regular season earlier? I also despise that the games are in an unofficial capacity(meaning the leagues don't match the regular season leagues), who was the clown who came up with Spring Training?

Plenty of reasons:

1. Pitchers have to build arm strength back up.
2. Hitters have to get timing back.
3. Gives the Major League coaching staff a chance to instruct the minor league kids.
4. To get everybody into game shape.
5. To allow pitchers a chance to work on mechanics, new pitches, etc.
6. Gives managers a chance to see offseason acquisitions up close.

And then some.

Why is ST pointless or stupid? You really want Tomlin working on a two-seamer during a start in June? Based on what I saw today, I don't.

Far easier to correct issues in Spring Training than during the season.

[gotribe31]

Plus, who the hell hates spring training? It's sunshine, baseball, beers, and relaxation.

[skatingtripods]

Russ Canzler's hitting a lot of singles, but he's barreling up a lot of pitches. Lots of line drives up the middle. Good, short swing. Not a lot of unnecessary movement.

Too bad he's another 1B/OF who is much better at 1B than in the OF.

[danwismar]

watched the Tribe Monday and Tuesday here in AZ. Liked what I saw from Canzler...the ball does jump off his bat...although he may make Victor Martinez look fleet-footed. Nothing alarming from Tomlin that I could see...just a contact pitcher doing his thing. Jose Lopez is interesting

[skatingtripods]

Jimenez struggling yet again with location and command. Radinsky has a lot of work to do before April 7.

[ChoccoIndians]

Jimenez struggling yet again with location and command. Radinsky has a lot of work to do before April 7.

Listening to Baseball today this week and Eric Karabell thinks we are going to regret this trade big time.

First time I have heard someone speak negative of it.

At what point do we start to worry about his spring training form?

[bac5665]

At what point do we start to worry about his spring training form?

May.

ST results mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. Pitchers try new things and pitch completely different pitch selections and locations than during the regular season during ST.

While it may not be fun to watch Jimenez seem to struggle, the odds are that he's trying something different this spring and his performance probably will have no impact on his regular season performance.

[skatingtripods]

At what point do we start to worry about his spring training form?

Yesterday.

As I talked about in my View from the Porch column, this isn't really Ubaldo working on things. This is Ubaldo can't repeat his mechanics. Everything is belt high or down in the dirt. Has nothing to do with him working on stuff. He's walked 9 and struck out 6 this Spring and guys hate to take walks during the Spring.

He has such a tough delivery to repeat with his long, lanky arms and overhand release point. It's a big concern.

Manny Acta called it a problem. He's usually pretty laissez-faire about ST stuff. He told Ubaldo it was "time to get it in gear". If he's seeing it as a problem, and he knows better than anybody how guys approach ST, then it's a problem.

Jimenez isn't going to show up on April 7 and pound the strike zone if he didn't do it in the Spring. He's pitching behind in the count entirely too much, and that's all fastball command. If he can't spot his fastball, he's screwed.

And, for what it's worth, I've seen 2 of his 4 starts on TV, so I've seen the mechanical issue. This isn't just reading the box score. I didn't see yesterday's, but if you throw 80 pitches in 3.2 innings, it's not solely because you're working on stuff. It's because your fastball command sucks.

[leadpipe]

At what point do we start to worry about his spring training form?

Yesterday.

As I talked about in my View from the Porch column, this isn't really Ubaldo working on things. This is Ubaldo can't repeat his mechanics. Everything is belt high or down in the dirt. Has nothing to do with him working on stuff. He's walked 9 and struck out 6 this Spring and guys hate to take walks during the Spring.

He has such a tough delivery to repeat with his long, lanky arms and overhand release point. It's a big concern.

Manny Acta called it a problem. He's usually pretty laissez-faire about ST stuff. He told Ubaldo it was "time to get it in gear". If he's seeing it as a problem, and he knows better than anybody how guys approach ST, then it's a problem.

Jimenez isn't going to show up on April 7 and pound the strike zone if he didn't do it in the Spring. He's pitching behind in the count entirely too much, and that's all fastball command. If he can't spot his fastball, he's screwed.

And, for what it's worth, I've seen 2 of his 4 starts on TV, so I've seen the mechanical issue. This isn't just reading the box score. I didn't see yesterday's, but if you throw 80 pitches in 3.2 innings, it's not solely because you're working on stuff. It's because your fastball command sucks.

I'd agree with this for the most part, but it's not all that big a deal unless he gets his velocity back. And by this point in the spring, you should have your fastball. Shoulda had it a couple weeks ago, to be honest. There's guys all over the country that are out of the game that can hit 90. Guys that hit 90 with little command never even get their chance.

If his velocity is truely gone, someone in that front office made a grave, grave mistake. Cause he was coming off issues, one would assume he was put under a microscope and satisfied velocity wasn't even a question before thay made any deal. When the trade was made there was a pretty good split of opinion. If that happened all over again, and you knew you were getting a guy that lived through velocity, that didn't have velocity, than Christ, you'd have to be a moron to be for it.

And I realize Ubaldo had movement on his pitches - but that's too the point, what made him an ace wasn't extreme movement - it was movement at 97 mph. 97 is what allows for mediocre command. 90 doesn't allow you shit.

[skatingtripods]

LP, I agree on the velo and the importance of getting it back. But, if he's not spotting 91 or 92, what's going to get him to spot 93 or 94? And I get it might be tougher to pick up and he may get more swings and misses, but his command and mechanics are a giant issue.

Supposedly, he feels good and strong. I don't know what his velo's really been because all the guns are different. STO's was clocking him at 91-93 the last start on there that I was able to watch, but he was sitting at 91. That won't get it done. Assuming he's only going 85-90%, he may sit at 93 or 94 during the season. But, his average fastball velo from 2009 and 2010 was 96.1 according to Fangraphs.

91 or 94, you have to spot it. Jimenez isn't consistently doing that. I'm hoping it's just the Spring, and he does have a track record of a low K/BB ratio in the Spring (it's now 69 K to 62 BB for his ST career), but he's a giant question mark. And he can't be a giant question mark all season if the Indians are going to be in this hunt. That puts a lot of pressure on an aging Derek Lowe, a contact/flyball guy in Tomlin, and a 5th starter who will be lucky to have below a 4.50.

[leadpipe]

LP, I agree on the velo and the importance of getting it back. But, if he's not spotting 91 or 92, what's going to get him to spot 93 or 94? And I get it might be tougher to pick up and he may get more swings and misses, but his command and mechanics are a giant issue.

Supposedly, he feels good and strong. I don't know what his velo's really been because all the guns are different. STO's was clocking him at 91-93 the last start on there that I was able to watch, but he was sitting at 91. That won't get it done. Assuming he's only going 85-90%, he may sit at 93 or 94 during the season. But, his average fastball velo from 2009 and 2010 was 96.1 according to Fangraphs.

91 or 94, you have to spot it. Jimenez isn't consistently doing that. I'm hoping it's just the Spring, and he does have a track record of a low K/BB ratio in the Spring (it's now 69 K to 62 BB for his ST career), but he's a giant question mark. And he can't be a giant question mark all season if the Indians are going to be in this hunt. That puts a lot of pressure on an aging Derek Lowe, a contact/flyball guy in Tomlin, and a 5th starter who will be lucky to have below a 4.50.

All I'm sayin' is what made him an ace was 97 with movement. This is where he got away with mistakes in command, or more succinctly, this is where hitters were swinging at balls and taking strikes.

At 91 hitters lay off balls and sit on strikes, which is why he is currently getting raked.

Anyway, they couldn't have known where his command would go, but they should have been confident in the velocity.

Hoping this is a spring issue at this point, but man, he's gone from a guy that made hitters very uncomfortable to a guy hitters are just waiting on.

[skatingtripods]

Here's something that Sheldon Ocker wrote regarding Jimenez's velocity:

A scout employed by an opposing team who watched Ubaldo Jimenez struggle against the Reds on Saturday almost couldn’t believe his radar gun.

“His fastball was 89-91 [mph],” the scout said. “He might have touched 92 once or twice, but his slider was flat. He also looked like his mind was somewhere else. I haven’t seen him like that in two years.

I really hope that he's just holding back since he got hurt last Spring and doesn't want a repeat performance. Have to see how his final 3 starts go.

[WiscTribeFan]

Here's something that Sheldon Ocker wrote regarding Jimenez's velocity:

A scout employed by an opposing team who watched Ubaldo Jimenez struggle against the Reds on Saturday almost couldn’t believe his radar gun.

“His fastball was 89-91 [mph],” the scout said. “He might have touched 92 once or twice, but his slider was flat. He also looked like his mind was somewhere else. I haven’t seen him like that in two years.

I really hope that he's just holding back since he got hurt last Spring and doesn't want a repeat performance. Have to see how his final 3 starts go.

Maybe he's really Ramon Hernandez.

If he tanks, that trade could really set this club back, assuming that White and/or Pommeranz perform.

[skatingtripods]

In happier news, Miguel Cabrera was hit in the face with a ground ball today. Left the field all bloody. I believe the game was on ESPN as well.

[skatingtripods]

Jason Donald starting in CF today with Ubaldo on the mound. The way Ubaldo's been pitching, it'll be a nice gauge of Donald's progress as an OF.

[plincoln]

FWIW, mlb.com has pitch-f/x included in their Gameday page. I don't know how accurate it is, but I thought it might be interesting to look at Ubaldo's fastball velocity.

Overall range: 90-95 mph

Average velocity by inning (mph):

1st: 93.6
2nd: 93.5
3rd: 91.8
4th: 92.5

Definitely more in line with his 2011 range than his 2007-2010 range. But I have absolutely no clue how spring training velocities usually compare with the real thing, so I'm holding off on pressing the panic button. For now.

[LakeErieWarriors]

I read that the reason he kind of sucked last year was because he changed his off-season regiment. After his great 2010 season, he thought he would slack on the off-season training, and it bit him in the ass. He also said last year, that this off-season would not be the same, that he would do the same stuff he was doing when everything was going well. I'm not overly concerned at this point. I think it's way too early. We'll see what's up with him a month from now, and if he still blows, I don't think you can put the blame on the Tribe for taking him. It was supposed to take us over the hump and get us into the race halfway through last season; we all know how that went, and it wasn't Ubaldo's fault.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is, come on this is Cleveland, be positive!!

[skatingtripods]

It's hard, quite frankly, to evaluate Ubaldo's ST performance because he got hurt in 2011 ST and doesn't want a repeat performance. At the same time, his mechanics still are an issue. So, it's a matter of determining if his velo drop is related to not wanting to go balls out or if his mechanics are off and he's not fully finishing his delivery.

This is what happens when there's 30 days of meaningless baseball that we can look at under a microscope.

Hopefully, his next two starts are positive. Today was definitely a step in the right direction.

[bookelly]

How did Donald do in CF? I want this kid in the lineup everyday. I don't care where he plays, but he better not Valbuena the job. If he can really play everything but catcher and pitcher...he's my new favorite player for sure (tho Kyrie is making a damn good case.)

I wanna see the Tribe up by 10 games in late September, and they have Donald play every position on a lark. That would be badass.

/yes, I just used Valbuena as a verb.

[skatingtripods]

Nothing from Bastian in his blog or the game recap. I just asked him on Twitter how Donald looked in CF.

Will report back if he answers.

[gotribe31]

He looked pretty good. Caught a couple of easy fly balls, and made a nice play on a hard line drive that he had to come in on. It handcuffed him a little bit and he ended up basket catching it, but it was a nice play. He got burned on a 2B over his head, but it wasn't a play he or any other CF should have reasonably made.

Canzler actually made a nice play in LF, going over to cut off a liner in the gap and hold the guy to a single.

[skatingtripods]

He looked pretty good. Caught a couple of easy fly balls, and made a nice play on a hard line drive that he had to come in on. It handcuffed him a little bit and he ended up basket catching it, but it was a nice play. He got burned on a 2B over his head, but it wasn't a play he or any other CF should have reasonably made.

That's right. I forgot that you're there. Either that or I just don't want to talk to you because I'm extremely jealous.

What was the sun like yesterday? Was it a hard day to be an OFer?

What was his break to the ball like? Too bad you didn't get to see his arm. Obviously, the Indians feel he has a strong enough arm to be a 3B option. Wondering how accurate it is on the long throw.

I'd love for him to be able to play the OF during the regular season. That enhances his worth so much and gives Manny Acta even more options.

[skatingtripods]

Blobby Jenks picked up a DUI last night/this morning.

http://deadspin.com/5895995/

While the paramedics were on scene, Deputy Sutphin asked Jenks if he had taken anything else other than his muscle relaxers and Jenks replied, "I'm going to be honest with you, I was just leaving Babes because I hit a car. I just head to get out of there.

According to The Ultimate Strip Club List, Babes of Fort Myers has a solid 3.5-star rating and exclusively white dancers, for your information.

[Erie Warrior]

While undoubtedly a quality guy and teammate, Shelly Duncan is not an outfielder.

He's appears to be the LF on Opening Day.

[skatingtripods]

While undoubtedly a quality guy and teammate, Shelly Duncan is not an outfielder.

He's appears to be the LF on Opening Day.

There are certain parks he can handle it in, one being Jacobs Field. But, of the road ballparks, really I'd say only Fenway, Angel Stadium, and maybe Safeco/Arlington. He's too big of a liability in any of the Central Division parks because they all have really big gaps, especially Comerica and Kauffman. Brantley's also not a great CF. He's possibly slightly above average, we haven't really seen him there enough to decide.

If he outslugs his fielding shortcomings by hitting 20-25 HR and hits somewhere in the .250 range, I think we can deal with that. If he can't hit and plays bad defense, I don't know what the hell we'll do.

Another year with two below average arms and one howitzer in the OF. Better hope we lead the league in double plays induced.

[Erie Warrior]

Another year with two below average arms and one howitzer in the OF.

You can tag to second on a ball down the line on Dunc. He throws worse than Grady.

[peeker643]

Ughh...

Guys who aren't full time players at 31 typically aren't putting up better than average starter numbers at 32.

I know there are few other options, but let's be honest as to what Duncan was, is and always will be, and that's a really horrific option as a starting OF on a major league team.

Offensively and defensively.