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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

#4, #22, and _________?

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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:16 am

So we're all in agreement then, right?

Give up everything or just a little because he is/isn't the answer.

Awesome.

Just 58 more days.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby General » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Just make the deal. If RG3 is the man, well.... If he isn't it just adds to the legend of the big lake they call suck. Either way it will be fun.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:21 pm

All of these discussions are moot at this point. Gotta wait and see what happens. Miami gets Flynn and Washington gets Manning then fuck it. Screw the Rams. Sit there at 4 and dare them to drop from 2 to 11 or 12 and get half the player and a mid first rounder next year instead of Khalil or Blackmon. I'd say that only us and perhaps Washington are trade partners who allow them to still grab an elite player.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:35 pm

Ziner wrote:All of these discussions are moot at this point. Gotta wait and see what happens. Miami gets Flynn and Washington gets Manning then fuck it. Screw the Rams. Sit there at 4 and dare them to drop from 2 to 11 or 12 and get half the player and a mid first rounder next year instead of Khalil or Blackmon. I'd say that only us and perhaps Washington are trade partners who allow them to still grab an elite player.



SD:

Miami as the darkhorse , with Denver and Seattle as the even darker horses .


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:40 pm

[quote="trsteve1"]"The Rams are seeking a deal similar to what the San Diego Chargers got for the rights to 2004 top overall pick Eli Manning, the sources said Monday." [1,1,3,5]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7625073/st-louis-rams-executive-kevin-demoff-team-willing-deal-no-2-nfl-draft-pick

Smoke and mirrors may get the #2 without giving up two 1s, but we might be able to get there without giving up a 2nd rounder.. if by some miracle we could go [1,2,3] or some combination like that, it would be thievery... I think the Rams are looking to take Kalil or Blackmon (whoever falls to them with whatever pick they drop down to)

Of course, dream world is we run enough smoke screens and diversion that the Rams have to sit on #2, draft Kalil, Minny drafts whatever they draft (Blackmon maybe?) and RGIII falls to us at #4

Of course, then the question remains is RGIII the QB for us?

I sit on this odd fence where I like McCoy (kind of irrationally, yea, I know) and want him to get his chance, and preferably in Cleveland, but RGIII is loaded with talent and promise and that's exciting.. damn cake is so good I want to have it and eat it...[/quote]

SD:

In the 13 games he played last year , just what exactly has you hankering to see more
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Govbarney » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:42 pm

Its a 2 horse race between us and Snyder , and I don't like are chances because frankly Snyder has a history of spending like a drunken sailor with little or no regard for the draft.

The Browns under the current regime are to conservative to compete with Snyder in a pissing contest.

If it where 5 yrs ago and Phil Savage where still the GM we might have a shot (say what you will about him skill as a GM, but he had balls.) but right now I just don't see it happening, way to much risk aversion in the Browns organization to pull this off.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:06 pm

What exactly is Dan Synder's history of spending his entire draft?

Also didn't they finally hire a real GM there?

Also, isn't his crazy spending history almost entirely related to FA?

Also, would he really trade an entire draft plus while panny Shanny $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ without getting his approval?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Govbarney » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:43 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:What exactly is Dan Synder's history of spending his entire draft?

Also didn't they finally hire a real GM there?

Also, isn't his crazy spending history almost entirely related to FA?

Also, would he really trade an entire draft plus while panny Shanny $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ without getting his approval?

This site lists all the incidents where Snyder traded Draft picks in the last decade for aging past there prime players. http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010 ... n-redskins

A few Jems I want to point out:
In 2003 during the restricted free agency period, gave away 3 picks as compensation for signing away restricted free agents, and also trading fro Trung Canidate. The result; the had only 3 draft picks in 2003

Laveranues Coles - Technically a restricted free agent, the Redskins signed away Coles from the Jets for 7 years, $35 million, and they had to give the Jets their 1st round pick (13th overall) as compensation.

Clinton Portis - The Redskins trade a 2nd round pick and Champ Bailey (at the time considered the best CB in the game) for Portis. They then sign Portis to an 8 year, $50.5 million contract.

Mark Brunell - Acquired from the Jaguars for a 3rd round pick. they then signed him to a 7 year contract worth more than $43 million.

In the last 7 years the Redskins have had 4 drafts where they only had 5 or fewer picks, and 3 more on top of that where they had less then 6 for trading them away for old players past there prime.

Last year was the first time in a decade they had more then 7 draft picks when they pulled off a series of trades in which that number went up to 12 (with a few of those picks being for FY12) No coincidence b/c they fired Snyders lacky Cerrato and hired Bruce Allen.

All that being said you do have a point in that since they hired a "real" GM the Redskins have become a little more responsible with the draft , that being said we only have 2 years of drafts to evaluate Allen on so far, and in those two years he has traded away valuable draft picks for Donovan McNabb, Jammal Brown , and Adam Carriker.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:55 pm

Again, he also has no history of Ricky Williams'n a draft.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:20 pm

So, Rizzo posted, for the second time, pup's avatar of RGIII on Twitter.

Check the fifth response. I mean, FFS, are we that conditioned to NEVER dump picks? Yes, I have a limit as to how many, but 3, maybe 4 picks for your franchise QB? Hell yes. ::doh::
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:What exactly is Dan Synder's history of spending his entire draft?

Also didn't they finally hire a real GM there?

Also, isn't his crazy spending history almost entirely related to FA?

Also, would he really trade an entire draft plus while panny Shanny $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ without getting his approval?


Its mostly been covered at this point, but that was almost entirely picks for vets. And the new GM put a stop to that for the most part. Couple notable exceptions above. RG3 may fit Shanny's style, but no I dont believe it would be without at least some signoff there, but EOD, its Snyders team and he will overrule whoever he feels like if he gets RG3 fever.

The question might be just how much more valuable is the player they get at #4 than Washingtons #6? Maybe Ficher will get Blackmon Fever, lol.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby trsteve1 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:49 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:I sit on this odd fence where I like McCoy (kind of irrationally, yea, I know) and want him to get his chance, and preferably in Cleveland, but RGIII is loaded with talent and promise and that's exciting.. damn cake is so good I want to have it and eat it...


SD:

In the 13 games he played last year , just what exactly has you hankering to see more



It's irrational (like I said) for sure. But I lived in Texas when he was playing at UT and got to see a lot of his college games, then I hoped he might drop to the Browns in the draft, and then he did.. and I like him as a person (as far as anyone can tell with pro athletes, from interviews, post game comments, etc), and just want him to do well..

So, basically, sometimes you just like a player.. it doesn't make sense.. they aren't the greatest ever.. and you want them to do well because you like them..

Kind of like all those jokers who love Tebow..
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:15 am

trsteve1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:I sit on this odd fence where I like McCoy (kind of irrationally, yea, I know) and want him to get his chance, and preferably in Cleveland, but RGIII is loaded with talent and promise and that's exciting.. damn cake is so good I want to have it and eat it...


SD:

In the 13 games he played last year , just what exactly has you hankering to see more



It's irrational (like I said) for sure. But I lived in Texas when he was playing at UT and got to see a lot of his college games, then I hoped he might drop to the Browns in the draft, and then he did.. and I like him as a person (as far as anyone can tell with pro athletes, from interviews, post game comments, etc), and just want him to do well..

So, basically, sometimes you just like a player.. it doesn't make sense.. they aren't the greatest ever.. and you want them to do well because you like them..

Kind of like all those jokers who love Tebow..



Buy a set of coasters made from his football card for your man cave then.

We need a great quarterback.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:37 am

trsteve1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
trsteve1 wrote:I sit on this odd fence where I like McCoy (kind of irrationally, yea, I know) and want him to get his chance, and preferably in Cleveland, but RGIII is loaded with talent and promise and that's exciting.. damn cake is so good I want to have it and eat it...


SD:

In the 13 games he played last year , just what exactly has you hankering to see more



It's irrational (like I said) for sure. But I lived in Texas when he was playing at UT and got to see a lot of his college games, then I hoped he might drop to the Browns in the draft, and then he did.. and I like him as a person (as far as anyone can tell with pro athletes, from interviews, post game comments, etc), and just want him to do well..

So, basically, sometimes you just like a player.. it doesn't make sense.. they aren't the greatest ever.. and you want them to do well because you like them..

Kind of like all those jokers who love Tebow..


Fair enough.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:45 pm

A: Nope, Tyrone, you can pencil in Andrew Luck at No. 1 to Indianapolis and RG3 at No. 2 to … and there's the question that will hang over this draft more than any other in the coming weeks. Cleveland remains the team to beat. It has more ammunition than any other team and has the easiest, surest route from No. 4 to No. 2. It can trade both its No. 1 picks -- its own and the one it got last year from the Falcons -- in addition to other goodies to get to No. 2. No other team can make that deal as easily as Cleveland. But if the Browns balk, then the Redskins, Dolphins, Chiefs or some sleeper team could figure out a way to jump up to No. 2. The fact that Griffin is such an impressive prospect, and the fact that so many teams will be interested just means that one way or another St. Louis is likely to get its price from the team that decides to pull the trigger and roll the dice on the biggest move in the 2012 draft.


From Schefter. He seems to think we have the ultimate trump card at the moment, and in theory, that would make sense.

Rams would only drop to 4th, and be able to still pick up an elite prospect they'd want..versus dropping down to 6th and not getting so lucky.

Also, Colt's done. Period. His career as Cleveland Browns starting QB ended that Thursday in America's landfill aka Pittsburgh. He could have, as Hiko said during the season played his way out of being replaced, but sadly, he did not.

Best to let him lick his wounds as either a backup here, or let him go.

And for the browns? You got three options. Tannehill, Matt Flynn or RG3. Lets face facts here. Tannehill as said before seems to be the product of a QB driven draft inflating his status. Flynn I don't feel like giving up the 22nd or 2nd round for a potential Cassell/Mitchell player. RG3? Seems more than worth it compared to those two.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:06 pm

NM, wrong thread.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby comish » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:40 am

How much MORE to the Browns pay in draft picks if the Rams are willing to deal NOW, before free agency heats up, as opposed to during draft madness?

Is it "all in" then since the Browns will be able to target free agents more effectively...or let's say more attractively?

Apologies in advance if this was discussed up-thread
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:23 am

If you make a deal now, you can pitch to potential targets about the possibility of playing with the guy, and rebuilding this team in a manner that could have us going to the playoffs within 2 years.

I'm willing to deal right now, not a single doubt in my mind.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:51 am

comish wrote:How much MORE to the Browns pay in draft picks if the Rams are willing to deal NOW, before free agency heats up, as opposed to during draft madness?

Is it "all in" then since the Browns will be able to target free agents more effectively...or let's say more attractively?

Apologies in advance if this was discussed up-thread


I wait until draft day (unless I get word Indy is going RG3). Let the dust settle on the free agent QB market. You are fighting off too many challengers to get a deal done right now.

And nobody is signing here because we are going to draft RG3. In a couple years (maybe as soon as 1), yes. But nobody is signing a FA contract based on the potential of a rookie QB.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby comish » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:59 am

Even a free agent WR, Pup? I don't know that I agree with you.

A boat load of money + the clear #1 WR + a dynamic young QB = no interest?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:18 am

comish wrote:Even a free agent WR, Pup? I don't know that I agree with you.

A boat load of money + the clear #1 WR + a dynamic young QB = no interest?


I guess it depends on who else is in the bidding.

Is Reggie Wayne coming here or following Manning?
Is Colston coming here of going to NE?


But it is my opinion the first part of equation is the bigger factor than who we draft anyway.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:19 am

comish wrote:Even a free agent WR, Pup? I don't know that I agree with you.

A boat load of money + the clear #1 WR + a dynamic young QB = no interest?


I agree with you, Comish. You've got one of the high profile FA WR, they don't even take the call if the Browns are trying to convince them to sign with Colt McCoy at QB. With the hype of RG3, I think they at least take the call.

WR's are gonna want to play with RG3.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:39 am

It's not really the Brown's call, though. It's StL's call when it happens.

The Browns could possibly swing a better deal on draft day, like Pup said. Or the Browms might be more attractive to FA if the deal is in place before that, but it's not up to us.

StL loses leverage if Wash and Miami sign FAs so the Browns would get a better deal if that happened. But if we know that, StL surely knows it too. And they have the advantage of not giving a shit if the Browns or anyone else wants to wait.

StL has nothing to gain, and leverage to lose the longer they wait. I'd look for them to deal before FA. At some poont H+H will get a call telling the what Snyder is offering and give them 24 hours to beat it. Thats what I would do, anyway.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:50 am

motherscratcher wrote:It's not really the Brown's call, though. It's StL's call when it happens.

The Browns could possibly swing a better deal on draft day, like Pup said. Or the Browms might be more attractive to FA if the deal is in place before that, but it's not up to us.

StL loses leverage if Wash and Miami sign FAs so the Browns would get a better deal if that happened. But if we know that, StL surely knows it too. And they have the advantage of not giving a shit if the Browns or anyone else wants to wait.

StL has nothing to gain, and leverage to lose the longer they wait. I'd look for them to deal before FA. At some poont H+H will get a call telling the what Snyder is offering and give them 24 hours to beat it. Thats what I would do, anyway.


That's why I offer them the most I'm ever gonna offer them right now with the caveat that they get it done this week or kiss it goodbye (and hint that we'll go after Flynn, whether we intend to or not). To me, it's worth it to pay a bit more right now to have that situation nailed down and for FA's to know that RG3 is part of the package.

The Rams really don't want to drop further than #4 and they probably want that 2nd 1st round pick this year... they want to jack the Browns up as much as they can, but they also want the Browns to be the team they deal with.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:57 am

motherscratcher wrote:It's not really the Brown's call, though. It's StL's call when it happens.

The Browns could possibly swing a better deal on draft day, like Pup said. Or the Browms might be more attractive to FA if the deal is in place before that, but it's not up to us.

StL loses leverage if Wash and Miami sign FAs so the Browns would get a better deal if that happened. But if we know that, StL surely knows it too. And they have the advantage of not giving a shit if the Browns or anyone else wants to wait.

StL has nothing to gain, and leverage to lose the longer they wait. I'd look for them to deal before FA. At some poont H+H will get a call telling the what Snyder is offering and give them 24 hours to beat it. Thats what I would do, anyway.


SD:

Fisher came out early on the pick being dealt prior to the draft .

He's flushing all the corners as there are more players now prior to Flynn and manning signing .

The Browns have to get this done the minute they are out of the Flynn signing or risk getting shut out.

Our position at #4 plus our #22 and the potential to use our 2013 #1 forces any other team to come up with the equivalent of four number ones to beat that deal .

I see the skins holding back from armegeddon and focussing on Tanneyhill or Foles firt , but not before they drive the price up beyond the level of everybody else save us to chase the chickens out and make it a two horse race.

Holmgren just need sac up and hold his mud .

We can do this .


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby smalls1129 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Here's what I don't get and I don't think I've heard anyone bring up. If St. Louis actually believes that RGIII is worth what they are asking, why in the world would they trade him in Conference? In their view they have the QB they believe will take them to the SB, so they're going to trade the next best thing so he can knock them out of the playoffs for years to come? I think between the Rams not wanting to go below #4 and not wanting the trade of RGIII to potentially haunt them for the next 10 years the Browns are beyond in the driver's seat. The only way Washington stands a chance is if St Louis' hasn't bought into the hype at all.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:48 pm

smalls1129 wrote:Here's what I don't get and I don't think I've heard anyone bring up. If St. Louis actually believes that RGIII is worth what they are asking, why in the world would they trade him in Conference? In their view they have the QB they believe will take them to the SB, so they're going to trade the next best thing so he can knock them out of the playoffs for years to come? I think between the Rams not wanting to go below #4 and not wanting the trade of RGIII to potentially haunt them for the next 10 years the Browns are beyond in the driver's seat. The only way Washington stands a chance is if St Louis' hasn't bought into the hype at all.



SD:

On this one all those points have been touched upon , as favorable to the Browns , Its
a measure of what Snyder has to step into if he wants to go nuclear winter on this and start trading players with his picks .

We have the ammo , the question is does holmgren have the Grommetts.


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby smalls1129 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:56 pm

I get what you're saying, but I am not just talking about draft position, I literally think it would be nuts to trade him in conference if they believe he is that good. It doesn't matter what they give you; if you're of the believe that it is a QB league where the best QB generally wins, why would you set up a potential road block to keep your golden boy out of the SB. Honestly Was could give up it's whole draft and set St Louis up to make it to the title game every year...but if RGIII keeps you out of the SB how can you say it was a good trade.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:25 pm

Meh, if they were trading in their division maybe. But I can't see conference making a huge deal. They won't have to face him every year.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 pm

How about #4, #22, and Dick Jauron?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:25 pm

motherscratcher wrote:How about #4, #22, and Dick Jauron?


MAGIC DICK IS THE LEADER OF THE GREATEST BROWNS D SINCE #57, #31, AND #29!!!
WE DON'T NEED AN OFFENSE!!
WE DON'T NEED A QB!!
WE CAN OUTSCORE OPPONENTS WITH FG'S AND SAFETIES OUR D IS SO DOMINANT!!
HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST WE TRADE HIM FOR A PLAYER WE DON'T NEED.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:38 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:How about #4, #22, and Dick Jauron?


MAGIC DICK IS THE LEADER OF THE GREATEST BROWNS D SINCE #57, #31, AND #29!!!
WE DON'T NEED AN OFFENSE!!
WE DON'T NEED A QB!!
WE CAN OUTSCORE OPPONENTS WITH FG'S AND SAFETIES OUR D IS SO DOMINANT!!
HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST WE TRADE HIM FOR A PLAYER WE DON'T NEED.


You forgot: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!

TRENT DILFER WON A SUPER BOWL!!
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:00 pm

googleeph2 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Impossible to answer until FA, but if I was H&H (and I liked RG3) I'd be blowing smoke about how much we're in love with RG3 and how we'll pay whatever it takes to get him.

Every other suitor knows that if that's the case, they're SOL, since we have more to give than anyone else. Let one or two of them face that reality and settle for Manning or Flynn in FA. If you can bluff Washington into moving on to a FA option, that would do wonders for our leverage.


AMEN. You are the only one I've seen who sees it my way.

It's how the Yankees get their free agents sometimes, only with money.
When they've said they plan to target a FA, nobody gets in the bidding war.

And Dan Snyder may try to give up more, but he doesn't have the #4. Comes down to who the Rams are targeting- Blackmon?

I would try this bluff, but end up not giving up more than the 2 1st rdrs.
If there is a down side, please tell me.

And if it does not work (RG is gone), I'd try to do what Heckert did last yr.
Trade the #4 for more picks, including a 1 next yr. That way, they'll have this same flexibility to move up again in 2013.

Because that haul for Julio Jones was Atlanta's 1st, 2nd and 4th last yr and their 1st and 4th this yr. That type of deal would kiss #4 goodbye, but there still would be 2 1st rdrs this yr.

I'd sign up for some more of that, if Griffin is too expensive and a suitor is there.


Old post, but :bunny: :bunny: to you. I mean Jeebus, are we that conditioned to valuing draft picks over anything else? Bad teams are given top 5 picks for a reason: to get IMPACT PLAYERS, not just a bunch of "good" players.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Govbarney » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:11 pm

Anyone think that the Rams may favor CLE, or MIA, over WAS, b/c WAS plays in the NFC?
I know its not as big as deal as playing in the same division, but if RG3 is as good as advertised would you want to be the GM that that trades him to a team you might one day have to face in the playoffs?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:14 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Impossible to answer until FA, but if I was H&H (and I liked RG3) I'd be blowing smoke about how much we're in love with RG3 and how we'll pay whatever it takes to get him.

Every other suitor knows that if that's the case, they're SOL, since we have more to give than anyone else. Let one or two of them face that reality and settle for Manning or Flynn in FA. If you can bluff Washington into moving on to a FA option, that would do wonders for our leverage.


AMEN. You are the only one I've seen who sees it my way.

It's how the Yankees get their free agents sometimes, only with money.
When they've said they plan to target a FA, nobody gets in the bidding war.

And Dan Snyder may try to give up more, but he doesn't have the #4. Comes down to who the Rams are targeting- Blackmon?

I would try this bluff, but end up not giving up more than the 2 1st rdrs.
If there is a down side, please tell me.

And if it does not work (RG is gone), I'd try to do what Heckert did last yr.
Trade the #4 for more picks, including a 1 next yr. That way, they'll have this same flexibility to move up again in 2013.

Because that haul for Julio Jones was Atlanta's 1st, 2nd and 4th last yr and their 1st and 4th this yr. That type of deal would kiss #4 goodbye, but there still would be 2 1st rdrs this yr.

I'd sign up for some more of that, if Griffin is too expensive and a suitor is there.


Old post, but :bunny: :bunny: to you. I mean Jeebus, are we that conditioned to valuing draft picks over anything else? Bad teams are given top 5 picks for a reason: to get IMPACT PLAYERS, not just a bunch of "good" players.


I'm not sure you completely comprehended Gogleeph's post there.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:37 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Impossible to answer until FA, but if I was H&H (and I liked RG3) I'd be blowing smoke about how much we're in love with RG3 and how we'll pay whatever it takes to get him.

Every other suitor knows that if that's the case, they're SOL, since we have more to give than anyone else. Let one or two of them face that reality and settle for Manning or Flynn in FA. If you can bluff Washington into moving on to a FA option, that would do wonders for our leverage.


AMEN. You are the only one I've seen who sees it my way.

It's how the Yankees get their free agents sometimes, only with money.
When they've said they plan to target a FA, nobody gets in the bidding war.

And Dan Snyder may try to give up more, but he doesn't have the #4. Comes down to who the Rams are targeting- Blackmon?

I would try this bluff, but end up not giving up more than the 2 1st rdrs.
If there is a down side, please tell me.

And if it does not work (RG is gone), I'd try to do what Heckert did last yr.
Trade the #4 for more picks, including a 1 next yr. That way, they'll have this same flexibility to move up again in 2013.

Because that haul for Julio Jones was Atlanta's 1st, 2nd and 4th last yr and their 1st and 4th this yr. That type of deal would kiss #4 goodbye, but there still would be 2 1st rdrs this yr.

I'd sign up for some more of that, if Griffin is too expensive and a suitor is there.


Old post, but :bunny: :bunny: to you. I mean Jeebus, are we that conditioned to valuing draft picks over anything else? Bad teams are given top 5 picks for a reason: to get IMPACT PLAYERS, not just a bunch of "good" players.


I'm not sure you completely comprehended Gogleeph's post there.


The first half of his post is OK. But just 4 & 22 won't get it done, period.

Beyond that, if you can't/won't move up for RGIII, then just go BPA at 4, even Claiborne. Stop passing up impact guys!
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:50 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:The first half of his post is OK. But just 4 & 22 won't get it done, period.

Beyond that, if you can't/won't move up for RGIII, then just go BPA at 4, even Claiborne. Stop passing up impact guys!


I get that. And it's not an unreasonable position. And I wouldn't think it's a bad idea to take an the BPA impact guy at #4 if we don't end up with RG3.

HOWEVER

The most important position, BY FAR, to have an impact player is QB. We currently don't have an impact player at that position. It is also more likely to acquire an impact player at QB the higher in the draft you are picking.

If, you don't have an impact player at QB, and you are unable to acquire an impact player at QB, it makes sense to try to position yourself to get an impact player at QB ASAP, which would probably be in next years draft. In that case, it makes sense to try to add a second #1 pick next year so we would once again be in a position to move up, if necessary.

It isn't like Gogleeph just wants a team full of average guys. Me either. If you thought he wanted to pass up impact players "just because"...then you didn't really comprehend his post.

I like Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne too. But I'd easily pass them up for a trade down if it is going to help solve the QB situation.

But, I don't want to wait a year. Waiting a year would suck giant hairy CDT testicles. That's why I'm advocating doing whatever it takes to move up for RG3.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:26 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:The first half of his post is OK. But just 4 & 22 won't get it done, period.

Beyond that, if you can't/won't move up for RGIII, then just go BPA at 4, even Claiborne. Stop passing up impact guys!


I get that. And it's not an unreasonable position. And I wouldn't think it's a bad idea to take an the BPA impact guy at #4 if we don't end up with RG3.

HOWEVER

The most important position, BY FAR, to have an impact player is QB. We currently don't have an impact player at that position. It is also more likely to acquire an impact player at QB the higher in the draft you are picking.

If, you don't have an impact player at QB, and you are unable to acquire an impact player at QB, it makes sense to try to position yourself to get an impact player at QB ASAP, which would probably be in next years draft. In that case, it makes sense to try to add a second #1 pick next year so we would once again be in a position to move up, if necessary.

It isn't like Gogleeph just wants a team full of average guys. Me either. If you thought he wanted to pass up impact players "just because"...then you didn't really comprehend his post.

I like Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne too. But I'd easily pass them up for a trade down if it is going to help solve the QB situation.

But, I don't want to wait a year. Waiting a year would suck giant hairy CDT testicles. That's why I'm advocating doing whatever it takes to move up for RG3.


And again, I would watch who you're calling impact. Because I can name a total of ONE cornerback in the entire league that's an IMPACT player. The odds of Claiborne with these current rules, becomes a "shutdown" corner are about nill.

You gotta have a quarterback.

You gotta get to the quarterback.

You gotta protect the quarterback.

In the NFL 2012, until you have the above 3 taken care of, it's all wasting time.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:49 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:The first half of his post is OK. But just 4 & 22 won't get it done, period.

Beyond that, if you can't/won't move up for RGIII, then just go BPA at 4, even Claiborne. Stop passing up impact guys!


I get that. And it's not an unreasonable position. And I wouldn't think it's a bad idea to take an the BPA impact guy at #4 if we don't end up with RG3.

HOWEVER

The most important position, BY FAR, to have an impact player is QB. We currently don't have an impact player at that position. It is also more likely to acquire an impact player at QB the higher in the draft you are picking.

If, you don't have an impact player at QB, and you are unable to acquire an impact player at QB, it makes sense to try to position yourself to get an impact player at QB ASAP, which would probably be in next years draft. In that case, it makes sense to try to add a second #1 pick next year so we would once again be in a position to move up, if necessary.

It isn't like Gogleeph just wants a team full of average guys. Me either. If you thought he wanted to pass up impact players "just because"...then you didn't really comprehend his post.

I like Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne too. But I'd easily pass them up for a trade down if it is going to help solve the QB situation.

But, I don't want to wait a year. Waiting a year would suck giant hairy CDT testicles. That's why I'm advocating doing whatever it takes to move up for RG3.


We really agree on this: get RGIII. Period. The issue is what if they a) can't or b) won't. I'm NOT trading down to get Tannehill. I don't want Tannehill. I'd consider it to get Blackmon or Richardson, but NO ONE ELSE.

"Solving the QB situation" isn't just about finding A QB; it's finding THE QB. So, the question we must consider is this: Forgetting RGIII in this, is Ryan Tannehill a potential franchise QB, or close to it? What do we think of him?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:00 am

CleSportsTruth wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
CleSportsTruth wrote:The first half of his post is OK. But just 4 & 22 won't get it done, period.

Beyond that, if you can't/won't move up for RGIII, then just go BPA at 4, even Claiborne. Stop passing up impact guys!


I get that. And it's not an unreasonable position. And I wouldn't think it's a bad idea to take an the BPA impact guy at #4 if we don't end up with RG3.

HOWEVER

The most important position, BY FAR, to have an impact player is QB. We currently don't have an impact player at that position. It is also more likely to acquire an impact player at QB the higher in the draft you are picking.

If, you don't have an impact player at QB, and you are unable to acquire an impact player at QB, it makes sense to try to position yourself to get an impact player at QB ASAP, which would probably be in next years draft. In that case, it makes sense to try to add a second #1 pick next year so we would once again be in a position to move up, if necessary.

It isn't like Gogleeph just wants a team full of average guys. Me either. If you thought he wanted to pass up impact players "just because"...then you didn't really comprehend his post.

I like Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne too. But I'd easily pass them up for a trade down if it is going to help solve the QB situation.

But, I don't want to wait a year. Waiting a year would suck giant hairy CDT testicles. That's why I'm advocating doing whatever it takes to move up for RG3.


We really agree on this: get RGIII. Period. The issue is what if they a) can't or b) won't. I'm NOT trading down to get Tannehill. I don't want Tannehill. I'd consider it to get Blackmon or Richardson, but NO ONE ELSE.

"Solving the QB situation" isn't just about finding A QB; it's finding THE QB. So, the question we must consider is this: Forgetting RGIII in this, is Ryan Tannehill a potential franchise QB, or close to it? What do we think of him?



SD:

I think I want Russell Wilson in the third round before I waste a pick on Tanneyhill.

At least with Wilson , I knew picking him , I intended to upgrade again soonest , with Tanneyehll I might forego this because of the investment .

This draft is unusual in that after Luck and RG3 at the top there isn't another guy worth a 1st round pick IMO.

You have two choices spend the money on Flynn the system backup or go All in on RG3 . the third option is continued suck and revisiting this bullshit next year , because you failed to get a QB this year,

with less resources and probably trying to move up from deeper in the draft from a far less strategic position.


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:53 am

I don't really care about Russell Wilson one way or another, but I agree with this.

I keep agreeing with SD. Cats and dogs living together.

Sad - do you like RG3 better than you liked Cam last year?
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Russell Wilson is 5'11 200 lbs.

You've got to be kidding me with that.

With ya more every day on RG3, but I don't want any part of Russell Wilson in any round of any draft.

If he goes before late 4th or 5th I'll be shocked, personally.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:49 pm

peeker643 wrote:Russell Wilson is 5'11 200 lbs.

You've got to be kidding me with that.

With ya more every day on RG3, but I don't want any part of Russell Wilson in any round of any draft.

If he goes before late 4th or 5th I'll be shocked, personally.


But he reminds SD of a young Warren Moon, who, if you hadn't heard, was exiled to Canada at the start of his career only to return a hero and lead the Run and Shoot Oilers and Seahawks and ended up as a HOF'er.

Same guy.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:14 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Russell Wilson is 5'11 200 lbs.

You've got to be kidding me with that.

With ya more every day on RG3, but I don't want any part of Russell Wilson in any round of any draft.

If he goes before late 4th or 5th I'll be shocked, personally.


But he reminds SD of a young Warren Moon, who, if you hadn't heard, was exiled to Canada at the start of his career only to return a hero and lead the Run and Shoot Oilers and Seahawks and ended up as a HOF'er.

Same guy.


You guys are clearly racist.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:25 pm

CleSportsTruth wrote:We really agree on this: get RGIII. Period. The issue is what if they a) can't or b) won't. I'm NOT trading down to get Tannehill. I don't want Tannehill. I'd consider it to get Blackmon or Richardson, but NO ONE ELSE.

"Solving the QB situation" isn't just about finding A QB; it's finding THE QB. So, the question we must consider is this: Forgetting RGIII in this, is Ryan Tannehill a potential franchise QB, or close to it? What do we think of him?


Don't matter what WE think about him. If Heckert & Co feel he's a franchise QB, they might take him. They're not the only ones that have a 1st round grade on the guy either.

Personally, he scares me b/c he seems like much more of a project than RG3/Luck, like the gap between those top 2 guys and Tanny is vast.

But at least he's a guy that COULD have a future, rather than a guy who gives us no hope at all.

PS - Richardson can probably be had in a trade down, and I don't think I'd take Blackmon that high when I could trade back and get Floyd. If RG3 were gone, no one available at #4 is more attractive to me than someone that they could still get via a trade down. Just don't know who'd want to trade up.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:38 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I don't really care about Russell Wilson one way or another, but I agree with this.

I keep agreeing with SD. Cats and dogs living together.

Sad - do you like RG3 better than you liked Cam last year?



SD:

Cam Newton is the most phenominal athlete to ever suit up and play football in the history of the league , an unbeleiveable talent the Browns should have gone after to upgrae their team .

RG3 however is a far better equipped talent to exploit the WCO in the manner the packers do under rodgers and did before him under farve .

He is still learning and still improving and refining his game , and he is a superb specimen much like what bruce lee was too karate .

The combo of quickness and strength and smarts , with his ability to blend the best techniques of all the QB's he's studied into one neat mobile adjusting computer makes him almost bionic.

He can make everypass , and can instantly diagnose which one to throw to throw to fit the situation at hand and exhibits a mannerism and calm abd resolve way beyond his years.

Guys like this ain't this good in make believe comic books let alone real life .

When the Browns passed on Newton , i thought we'd never see another chance to land a stud like that ,but on RG3 I'd have to say he's better.

All world arm with a surgeons touch , world class track speed , toughness heart football smarts and a Brain which would put most professors to shame , he'll be calling plays for Chilly by the third game instead of the other way around.

That the Browns might blow this pick , makes me lose sleep at night.

Tommorrow ain't promised.


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:47 pm

Cam Newton is the most phenominal athlete to ever suit up and play football in the history of the league


Bo knows Cam couldn't wear his jock.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:37 pm

FUDU wrote:
Cam Newton is the most phenominal athlete to ever suit up and play football in the history of the league


Bo knows Cam couldn't wear his jock.



SD:

Bo could hit a baseball , but he sure couldn't throw a football .

Bow also wasn't 6'6" tall and 248 lbs and could run 4.5.........

and

Bow didn't last , even playing half a year after baseball.

Unlike Jim Brown who never missed a game in 9 years while averaging 5.2 yards per carry,
when clotheslines taking out knees headhunting and piling on where all legal and illegal and practices to take stars out of the game.


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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:43 pm

Bo ran the fastest 40 time ever in combine history, not that I needed to say that to validate him as being a superior athlete to Cam.
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Re: #4, #22, and _________?

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:48 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Cam Newton is the most phenominal athlete to ever suit up and play football in the history of the league


Bo knows Cam couldn't wear his jock.



SD:

Bo could hit a baseball , but he sure couldn't throw a football .

Bow also wasn't 6'6" tall and 248 lbs and could run 4.5.........

and

Bow didn't last , even playing half a year after baseball.

Unlike Jim Brown who never missed a game in 9 years while averaging 5.2 yards per carry,
when clotheslines taking out knees headhunting and piling on where all legal and illegal and practices to take stars out of the game.


SoulDawg


The only thing I can make out of this post is that you assume Cam Newton can hit the breaking ball into the upper deck or throw a baseball on a rope from the warning track to homeplate...

...and how do you know Bo couldn't throw a football?

...and even if he could, why would he bother?

That would be like asking Jim Brown to throw a block for Ernie Green.

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