Chardon High School Shootings

[peeker643]

Jesus.

About as tranquil, quiet and affluent a school/community as you'll find with 45 minutes of Cleveland.

None of that shit matters.

4 kids shot, 1 shooter in custody (and they believe now there was only one despite earlier reports suggesting there two shooters) Chardon schools on lock down, 1 victim apparently life-flighted.

I can't imagine too many things worse than the powerless feeling of a parent with a child in that building this morning.

[pup]

I drive past Kirtland HS every morning. Usually about 6:30 AM.

This morning, there was a fire truck and Kirtland Fire Chief (is that the right title?) in the parking lot.

Thought to myself, how weird is that? If they were doing something with the school, they would not be there that early. I wonder if there was some sort of threat or something?

Now I have to think, some sort of threat was levied against a few schools in that area?

[e0y2e3]

Wrong Forum Peeker

[motherscratcher]

Fucked up.

I was late to work this morning waiting to hear from my mom who teaches at the elementary school there.

[peeker643]

Wrong Forum Peeker

Where to put it? NHB?

I can move it. I figured pop culture/news/etc.

ETA- Moved to NHB.

[peeker643]

Moscratch- Is that a campus type deal there? All the schools in one area from elementary to high school?

[FUDU]

Very tragic, and I'm pretty sure there are a board member or two that work for that school/district or have a child that attends that school. Thoughts are with them.

[motherscratcher]

Moscratch- Is that a campus type deal there? All the schools in one area from elementary to high school?

I think that the high school and middle school are right next to each other. I believe there are 3 Chardon elementary schools, with one of them (Maple) being right on that campus as well. My mom teaches at the one right on the square (Park, I believe). I'm not sure how close that is.

I thought I heard that they were evacuating the high school students to the middle and elemantary school, but I'm not sure if that happened. Sounded like the kids were slowely being released to parents right from the high school.

[FUDU]

Yes, the kids were sent to a nearby school and right now are supposedly waiting outside and being released 1 by 1 to parents. Rumored that the kids that were shot were not even enrolled at Chardon, but were from another school waiting for a connecting bus ride. ?

[peeker643]

Yes, the kids were sent to a nearby school and right now are supposedly waiting outside and being released 1 by 1 to parents. Rumored that the kids that were shot were not even enrolled at Chardon, but were from another school waiting for a connecting bus ride. ?

Auburn?

That's like a technical school that's fed by a number of high schools in the area.

Welding, teaching, cosmetology, etc.

ETA- Just not a bus depot. Kids get their core classes from their high school and then are bussed to Auburn for the specific trades they're studying.

[gotribe31]

Nuts.

I was born in the hospital right on 44 there, think it is technically in Munson (if there is anything actually technically IN Munson) and have friends that went to CHS. I got out of my morning meeting today, glanced at the TV and saw that they had the Geauga County Sherriff on the line. My first thought was "is there another Geauga County somewhere?" Couldn't believe what it was when I figured out that yes, it was Chardon OH and that it was a school shooting.

Never thought something like this could happen there. Sad.

[FUDU]

Yes I think Auburn is what I heard or read.

[Commodore Perry]

I'm shocked this happened in Chardon.

I listened to a Dad of one of the students on the radio today. He said the environment was very bad there, socially. Some parents knew it, but most were just contributing to the problem. There was a lot of social bullying and that when he contacted the school, they told him there was little they could actually do.

These types of shootings are not isolated incidents. They're symptoms of a very sick social environment these kids are in right now.

Mentor high school had/has a problem with suicides, all from social bullying. It doesn't grab the headlines like a shooting, but the outcome is the same.

And how many more kids are psychologically damaged/medicated from being in this environment? Even the bullies themselves are leaving high school with awful social skills that will likely lead to bad personal outcomes down the line.

My oldest is in kindergarten. I really don't know what I'm going to do going forward.

[peeker643]

One of the kids is confirmed to have died.

Just a sick feeling.

You put your kids on the bus or drop them off or whatever and now some family won't have that kid home for dinner tonight and will never have the chance to speak with them or see them again.

Way too close to home.

Just a waste. Tragedy is overused but I have no other words right now.

[Erie Warrior]

Just saw the headlines.

Always freaks me out, regardless of location.

He said the environment was very bad there, socially. Some parents knew it, but most were just contributing to the problem. There was a lot of social bullying and that when he contacted the school, they told him there was little they could actually do.

If the Admin. knew about it, and did nothing, then there should be epic lawsuits.

If it's documented, it's 10 days out here, possible long term. Facebook and Twitter are usually used to provide tangible evidence.

Bullying is a huge deal now, mostly because when it comes to a head, someone dies.

[Magic Brownies]

Wow.... I grew up in Chardon. Never thought something like this could/would happen there. It really hits home. Thoughts and prayers are with the victim's families.

[Commodore Perry]

He said the environment was very bad there, socially. Some parents knew it, but most were just contributing to the problem. There was a lot of social bullying and that when he contacted the school, they told him there was little they could actually do.

If the Admin. knew about it, and did nothing, then there should be epic lawsuits.

I hate a lawsuits, but unfortunately I do agree with you Erie, I think a successful lawsuit is the only thing that will actually get school administrations involved in this.

Some of the parents of the Mentor kids did sue.

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/09/a/

from the article:

Suzana Vidovic found her sister's body hanging over the front lawn. The family watched, she said, as the girls who had tormented Sladjana for months walked up to the casket - and laughed.

"They were laughing at the way she looked," Suzana says, crying. "Even though she died."

Pure evil.

One lawsuit was thrown out, for lack of evidence the school was notified.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/06/federal_judge_throws_out_one_m.html

[Cerebral_DownTime]

High school sucks, unless you're one of the vapid shitheels that has the right clothes and the cool friends. I'm not sure all the lawsuits and sensitivity training in the world will do anything to stop kids from being mean to each other. It's pretty much a right of passage in high school. Sometimes the best response to a bully is to simply hit them in the mouth. They understand that.

You know the people who were soulless dicks back then, they always say "high school was the best time of my life" now. Which is sad and tragic.....

[Rat_Tail]

13 years since Columbine and very little has changed.

How many shootings will it take for people to realize this can happen anywhere?

Any kid that wants to take a gun to school can. There's not much stopping them.

Can't wait to hear where he got the gun from.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Here comes the media's knee jerk overreaction to this.

GUNZ R BAD!

[peeker643]

High school sucks, unless you're one of the vapid shitheels that has the right clothes and the cool friends. I'm not sure all the lawsuits and sensitivity training in the world will do anything to stop kids from being mean to each other. It's pretty much a right of passage in high school. Sometimes the best response to a bully is to simply hit them in the mouth. They understand that.

You know the people who were soulless dicks back then, they always say "high school was the best time of my life" now. Which is sad and tragic.....

ETA- Not directed at you CDT. Just a general observation:


You know what? I'm tired of the 'bullied outcast' shit. I don't condone it and I certainly empathize with kids legitimately bullied and intimidated, but it's immediately thrown out there and assumed. As I said somewhere on the internet today, sometimes kids are fucking assholes and shoot people. And I know kids can be assholes because their parents are fucking assholes too.

No need to provide this gutless piece of shit who shot up a table of his former friends FROM BEHIND with any fucking excuse.

If I'm not mistaken my wife Lisa and Lead Pipe graduated with Danny Parmertor's father Bobby and Twitter is telling me there's a 2nd decedent, Demetrius Hewlin although I've seen no confirmation yet. My middle daughter plays volleyball with Danny Parmertor's cousin who was a mess in the school office today.

For what? It's a fucking disgusting waste.

But let's cue up the 'bullying' and 'gun' outrage when we have no idea yet the details other than some coward shot up a table full of kids from behind.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Feel better now?

[peeker643]

Feel better now?

No.

No better. This shit is just crazy.

Sorry.

Sick of the first thing being done is finding an excuse for the fucktard responsible for the action.

Can't be his fault. It's society, gun availability, kids being mean. If I killed every kid that was mean to me during high school my graduating class of 500+ would have been weened down to about 10.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Maybe kids in your generation had better coping skills.

I don't know.

It's going to be a big deal about guns before anything else. That's the sexy divisive issue that gets people screaming at each other. Already talking it about it on the radio and TV.

[Triple-S]

High School does indeed suck.

I only miss being able to play football, and that's it. Just full of hormonal idiots, who have no clue what the hell they're doing.

I'm already seeing idiots trying to blame this on everything they can. I believe Triv. was trying to blame it on the fact that this generation is supposedly not social due to twitter and facebook :rolleyes:.

Look and before people flip out, saying we need metal dectators and limiting video game usage..how about we go with some common sense?

If you're a parent and see your kid acting weird, and like a withdrawn little freak half the day, not speaking or talking about psychotic weird shit. WAKE UP. Same with teachers, same with classmates. And if you see a kid getting picked on for no apparent reason, how about telling someone to cut it out?

[peeker643]

2nd student did die. Russell King.

Another just out of surgery and temporarily paralyzed.

[Triple-S]

btw..on rcf, good ol' chardon was cracking jokes about this.

[Erie Warrior]

Sick of the first thing being done is finding an excuse for the fucktard responsible for the action.

Can't be his fault. It's society, gun availability, kids being mean. If I killed every kid that was mean to me during high school my graduating class of 500+ would have been weened down to about 10.

I've got a whole manifesto for you about this topic, but I'll save the band width until more info comes out. Could just be a bat shit crazy kid. More likely it was a culmination of events, unintentionally fostered by indifferent adults, over many years. Especially in a small place like Chardon.

Bad news all over.

[peeker643]

Sick of the first thing being done is finding an excuse for the fucktard responsible for the action.

Can't be his fault. It's society, gun availability, kids being mean. If I killed every kid that was mean to me during high school my graduating class of 500+ would have been weened down to about 10.

I've got a whole manifesto for you about this topic, but I'll save the band width until more info comes out. Could just be a bat shit crazy kid. More likely it was a culmination of events, unintentionally fostered by indifferent adults, over many years. Especially in a small place like Chardon.

Bad news all over.

Believe me, I wouldn't profess to know what was going through the kid's head at that minute and I'm sure it was a thousand things that culminated in this event. Divorced parents, old man beat up the old lady, was arrested for kidnapping at one point, then for attempted murder. Kid lives with grandparents, kid has some issues, kid gets his balls busted or has issues that see him break away from mainstream....

I don't know why he did what he did. But for people to assume it was bullying w/o any knowledge or first hand accounts of it take away the accountability and the responsibility that the kid owns himself IMO.

And I'd love to see the manifesto.

[leadpipe]

Peekers correct. Media is going to go batshit crazy to find out who is responsible, cause it couldn't be him. Just as you could set your watch and wait for someone that'll have to pay for Whitney Houston's death. Couldn't be her drug addicted fault.

But here's what I've known for a long time:

1. High schools are teaming with assholes and 2. Kid get picked on.

No different then when I was there.

The process is called life.

And by the way, you wouldn't believe how many gun sets I had as a kid. Serpico, Starsky and Hutch. Played a lotta Cowboys and Indians to. Through it all it was pretty clear difference bewteen pretend and shooting someone for real.

Fucking horrible what happened, and I did graduate with Parmentor's Dad. And I've heard from some reliable sources what much of this was about, and it'll come out. Old enough to get himself in trouble, old enough to make the decision to do what he did, and old enough to pay the price for ruining lives.

And that's it.

[motherscratcher]

You're right that the media immediately jumps on the bullying angle when something like this happens. And they shouldn't. Ultimately, unless there is some ridiculous brain chemistry going on that makes it impossible hor this kid to know and understand what he's doing (and should have been identified long ago) then it is on the kid. And there is no worthwhile excuse, obviously.

But, an explanation is not the same as an excuse. Be careful not to lump the people searching for either of those things into the same group. And explanation for this is a worthwhile thing to look for. I have no interest in making excuses, though.

[Bayou Tribe]

Crazy stuff indeed. I work very closely with a company out of Concord that has employees living in Chardon, Auburn, Chagrin Falls, etc. Same feeling of shock and confusion all around. My condolences to all affected.

I've been seeing conflicting reports on the King kid. Has he been declared brain dead, or deceased?

[FUDU]

I think we get caught up looking too hard for a one size fits all answer to why this happens. When in reality there are probably tons of reasons overall, and at times maybe only 1 or 2 reasons for each individual situation.

While the bullying angle can come across as an excuse I think in today's age of technology it can be part of a valid explanation in many cases. Whether or not any/many of us got bullied or picked on at any age in school (and we all probably did at some point) it usually stopped at school. The only way it continued beyond that was if the bully had the guts to come over your house face to face after school hours (that pretty much didn't happen). Today it is completely different with the Internet and social media, especially since it is all readily available in a kid's pocket on his phone. The bullying now is relentless, and goes way beyond the boundaries of school.

It's just too hard to point to one thing though, and I imagine as a parent that has to be the scariest part. IIRC Peeker has brought this up in the past, no matter how hard you try to instill the good in your kids, you simply don't have control once they're out in the world without you standing there. You can only hope at that point.

[peeker643]

Crazy stuff indeed. I work very closely with a company out of Concord that has employees living in Chardon, Auburn, Chagrin Falls, etc. Same feeling of shock and confusion all around. My condolences to all affected.

I've been seeing conflicting reports on the King kid. Has he been declared brain dead, or deceased?

I think the family was exploring options on harvesting organs prior to removing him from the machinery keeping him alive. Not sure if that's come to a conclusion although, as you noted, there is no brain activity.

The other critical kid at Metro downtown, Demetrius Hewlin, is in 'grave' condition.

[Bayou Tribe]

Crazy stuff indeed. I work very closely with a company out of Concord that has employees living in Chardon, Auburn, Chagrin Falls, etc. Same feeling of shock and confusion all around. My condolences to all affected.

I've been seeing conflicting reports on the King kid. Has he been declared brain dead, or deceased?

I think the family was exploring options on harvesting organs prior to removing him from the machinery keeping him alive. Not sure if that's come to a conclusion although, as you noted, there is no brain activity.

The other critical kid at Metro downtown, Demetrius Hewlin, is in 'grave' condition.

Thanks for the info. Terrible stuff. My two little dudes are just babies right now, but I can't fathom having to be a parent for that segment of time not knowing where my kid is, if they were one of the 4 or 5 people are reporting on, etc. I would be an absolute mess.

[peeker643]

The third student died at Metro this morning.

There are two at Hillcrest, one stable, one serious.

[FUDU]

While there is truly no silver linings in this, it sounds as if his targets were intended and not random, I would think that would be better for trying to understand this specific shooting.

Props to the kids that have been heard speaking to the media, they seem to have really kept themselves together in all this.

[Cease]

Used to run around Chardon quite a bit when I was in HS (NDCL). Obviously a sad time.

Echoing sentiments that bullying is a tidy catch-all problem we can pretend to focus on and reason with. Part of me wonders if the kid had a more substantial beef with the other guys. Have heard rumors I won't allow myself to type, but if this all goes away under a general bully flag, I will be disappointed that teachable moment met pre-fab lesson.

As opposed to bullying, focusing on a subject like "conflict resolution," or "anger management" gets closer to the nuts and bolts of helping things, IMO.

Side note- the shooter attended an alternative school, similar to the one my wife teaches at in a Westside district. Established as a way to maintain funding under No Child Left Behind by eliminating poorly-testing students, but veiled as an alternative program for at-risk kids with more attention and counseling. From my POV, these programs need to be re-examined across education system. My wife's classes are stuffed with 30+ students (not 14-16 as chartered) and have become a toss away pile for the main HS. The population, in general, is under-supervised, under-parented, and under-counselled. It's like a garden for bad seeds.

[Lubber]

While there is truly no silver linings in this, it sounds as if his targets were intended and not random, I would think that would be better for trying to understand this specific shooting.

Props to the kids that have been heard speaking to the media, they seem to have really kept themselves together in all this.

According to the prosecutor, TJ fired at random and fid not know the students he shot. I find that hard to believe considering one of the students was dating TJ's ex girlfriend, and from othe eye witness accounts, he was specifically targetting students.

And to top it off were the copycats today around NE Ohio schools with the bomb threats, etc.

[peeker643]

While there is truly no silver linings in this, it sounds as if his targets were intended and not random, I would think that would be better for trying to understand this specific shooting.

Props to the kids that have been heard speaking to the media, they seem to have really kept themselves together in all this.

According to the prosecutor, TJ fired at random and fid not know the students he shot. I find that hard to believe considering one of the students was dating TJ's ex girlfriend, and from othe eye witness accounts, he was specifically targetting students.

And to top it off were the copycats today around NE Ohio schools with the bomb threats, etc.

Well...Lane and the prosecutor both said no kids were targeted specifically, that drugs weren't an issue and that he wasn't bullied. So there's all of that.

We'll see. I do know that the media are bitching about access to victims and information being made available to them.

Fuck those parasitic assholes. It doesn't stop three networks from combining for thirty hours of televised guessing and bullshit yesterday.

The gun story will now come front and center since their bullying theory has just been shot to shit.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

While there is truly no silver linings in this, it sounds as if his targets were intended and not random, I would think that would be better for trying to understand this specific shooting.

Props to the kids that have been heard speaking to the media, they seem to have really kept themselves together in all this.

According to the prosecutor, TJ fired at random and fid not know the students he shot. I find that hard to believe considering one of the students was dating TJ's ex girlfriend, and from othe eye witness accounts, he was specifically targetting students.

And to top it off were the copycats today around NE Ohio schools with the bomb threats, etc.

We'll see. I do know that the media are bitching about access to victims and information being made available to them.

Fuck those parasitic assholes. It doesn't stop three networks from combining for thirty hours of televised guessing and bullshit yesterday.

The gun story will now come front and center since their bullying theory has just been shot to shit.

TJ is clearly lying, as he is Facebook friends with Nick Walczak. No coincidence that's the one who was dating TJ's ex.
Well...Lane and the prosecutor both said no kids were targeted specifically, that drugs weren't an issue and that he wasn't bullied. So there's all of that.

[motherscratcher]

Bullshit on the random shooting stuff. I don't believe it.

I'll bet it's easier for him to justify it in his own mind. If he admits that he targeted Nick and the othernkids, he has to admit to himself that he shot them for a truly stupid and unjustifiable reason.

If he picked kids at random, then he doesn't need tonjustify anything other than he is anproduct of society. Something dark and unexplainable, but ultimately blameless.

I don't know.

Fucked up.

[Lubber]

While there is truly no silver linings in this, it sounds as if his targets were intended and not random, I would think that would be better for trying to understand this specific shooting.

Props to the kids that have been heard speaking to the media, they seem to have really kept themselves together in all this.

According to the prosecutor, TJ fired at random and fid not know the students he shot. I find that hard to believe considering one of the students was dating TJ's ex girlfriend, and from othe eye witness accounts, he was specifically targetting students.

And to top it off were the copycats today around NE Ohio schools with the bomb threats, etc.

Well...Lane and the prosecutor both said no kids were targeted specifically, that drugs weren't an issue and that he wasn't bullied. So there's all of that.

We'll see. I do know that the media are bitching about access to victims and information being made available to them.

Fuck those parasitic assholes. It doesn't stop three networks from combining for thirty hours of televised guessing and bullshit yesterday.

The gun story will now come front and center since their bullying theory has just been shot to shit.

So the kid shoots up the cafeteria and now he is a credible source? I don't know Peeks, I just do not buy it.

Like it or not, the media's job is to deliver the events. In today's world of fast paced media delivery, there will always be conjecture and guessing and events unfold.

I don't see how the bullying story has been shot to shit just yet. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. For now, we are just like the media, we want answers, but for now we are all just guessing.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Wow. You guys don't quit your day jobs, because you all suck at amateur detective work.

I'm sure at some point the truth will come out, maybe in court. But you ain't gonna get it from the media. They focus on the more salacious details of the case, instead of what really happened.

I just want this shit off my TV, tired of hearing wild speculation and uneducated guesses from soulless talking heads on TV. I'll wait for the real story in the shooter's jailhouse tell all book.......

[peeker643]

Bullshit on the random shooting stuff. I don't believe it.

I'll bet it's easier for him to justify it in his own mind. If he admits that he targeted Nick and the othernkids, he has to admit to himself that he shot them for a truly stupid and unjustifiable reason.

If he picked kids at random, then he doesn't need tonjustify anything other than he is anproduct of society. Something dark and unexplainable, but ultimately blameless.

I don't know.

Fucked up.

Well, if he picked kids at random he's a fucked up, little freak with emotional issues.

If he admits to targeting specific kids he's a premeditated, calculated murderer capable of spending the next 65 years in a max security prison.

The point I'm making is there are as many people saying he was bullied as there are who say he wasn't. Of course he and his attorney have agendas now. If he wasn't bullied he wasn't targeting those who bullied him.

But I do know the media spent all day yesterday playing the bleeding heart fucktards that they are to a T.

And I really get pissed when I hear these assholes on the radio saying how they backed off yesterday because it was kids when they were told they'd get more answers and access today but did not.

They literally made me fucking sick today with complaints about what they were given.

That whole profession can suck my hairy bean bag and die. I'm embarrassed to have a journalism degree and prouder than hell not to use it.

The story will come out as it comes out. Not when they decide to make it or force it. The fact they care more about that than letting that place calm down and letting police gather the facts they need to do their job is a fucking joke.

I don't know what happened. You don't know what happened. They sure as shit don't know what happened. Difference is they all have agendas be it advancing their beliefs or generating clicks and eyeballs. They'll gladly walk over one corpse without the slightest regard if the next one is bloodier and will play better on the 6pm lead in.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Are you new?

This is what the media does and has done for as long as I can remember. They did it with Columbine, Jonesboro, and the Giffords shooting in AZ and they're doing it now.

Your rage baffles me. Did you not expect it?

[peeker643]

Are you new?

This is what the media does and has done for as long as I can remember. They did it with Columbine, Jonesboro, and the Giffords shooting in AZ and they're doing it now.

Your rage baffles me. Did you not expect it?

Was able to avoid it. Can't avoid it up here right now.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

That's true.

Being surrounded by the media vultures is probably a nightmare.

[jb]

Are you new?

This is what the media does and has done for as long as I can remember. They did it with Columbine, Jonesboro, and the Giffords shooting in AZ and they're doing it now.

Your rage baffles me. Did you not expect it?

Was able to avoid it. Can't avoid it up here right now.

Um, uh, if some people didn't follow it incessantly and make multiple posts on different venues for three solid days, maybe the media wouldn't cover it so much.

Media -> panders to interest = ratings = ads = money

It's easy to avoid. There's 400 non local non news changes and an "off" button on all electronics.

Three fingers point back. Just saying'.

[e0y2e3]

Are you new?

This is what the media does and has done for as long as I can remember. They did it with Columbine, Jonesboro, and the Giffords shooting in AZ and they're doing it now.

Your rage baffles me. Did you not expect it?

Was able to avoid it. Can't avoid it up here right now.

Um, uh, if some people didn't follow it incessantly and make multiple posts on different venues for three solid days, maybe the media wouldn't cover it so much.

Media -> panders to interest = ratings = ads = money

It's easy to avoid. There's 400 non local non news changes and an "off" button on all electronics.

Three fingers point back. Just saying'.

It's The Heat Index all over again....

Seriously, people obsessing over this shit leads to more coverage which leads to more movies (I think Elephant was the last of the Columbine movies) and more kids get shitty ideas planted in their heads.

Bow your head for the dead and move on. Christ, do we ever learn anything?