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NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:16 pm

I am fully of the opinion that Paul Cryst is going to be a pain in the ass to deal with at Pitt.

And I wasn't talking down the UM class at all, those linemen were legit, just more so saying Hoke is destroying Illinois right now, the two kids he took from Ohio probably don't even get JT offers (Taco has huge character issues and Dukes is a big project type that is only famous for that one play he burned Burrows on)
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:25 pm

I know E0 I kind of took a b-line bringing up an old conversation about HC job value, and where Furls kind of swore of the UM job as dead because of a lack of interested talent and home cooked kids.

Dont know how it is over at scout, but at BN, about half to three quarters of these kids are completely dismissing everything UM's doing on the recruiting trail.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:27 pm

And Yeah, I think Cryst has a great staff and opportunity to bring that Program up to heights it hasn't seen in some time.

Landing a duo of Zaire and Foster sure would accelerate that process.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:28 pm

Heh, we both managed to fuck up spelling Chrysts name. THAT is impressive.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:11 pm

JCoz wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:UM is focused on raiding Illinois right now. Taco and Dukes are Ohio guys, sure, but meh and meh.


Agree on the OH guys, but those OL were legit. Levenberry looking hard at UM and not so much at OSU as well.

I have said several times that I believed Furls was drastically underestimating the value of the Michigan job and Michigan's brand nationally and I think we are about to see that in action. Nationally the have historically recruited very well and they are going to be landing top ten classes on the regular now.

Plan B and C OH kids, the good Michigan kids, and good/great National kids is going to be a good strategy for them. The Talent there is about to increase by several orders of magnitude.

I fully expect OSU to be on top in the end, but there is no underselling it: UM is doing a great job recruiting. Still in need of some skill guys though, but they should be dominating that div for the next several years once this talent matures.

MSU's mini-rise is on borrowed time, and Nebraska couldn't recruit their way out of a paper bag.


The scUM brand is a lot like Ford, it is not the new sexy (although Hoke did a great job pushing it up a few notches last year), but there is some brand loyalty. scUM is also coming off a great season and their profile was certainly elevated last year. scUM is still an inferior brand to tOSU nationally, but it does have allure outside of the midwest. Today's scUM is nowhere near the brand it was in 1997.

I agree on the scUM recruiting strategy and it is one that scares me. Plan B and C Ohio guys are pretty good, lots of diamonds in the rough. scUM will always get a few national elite guys and a few regional elite guys (Illinois, Indiana, PA, etc.) and they will poach the occasional Ohio elite.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:20 pm

JCoz wrote:I know E0 I kind of took a b-line bringing up an old conversation about HC job value, and where Furls kind of swore of the UM job as dead because of a lack of interested talent and home cooked kids.

Dont know how it is over at scout, but at BN, about half to three quarters of these kids are completely dismissing everything UM's doing on the recruiting trail.


I don't remember the quote or context that you are referring to. I will say that scUM is an inferior job to tOSU and the scUM coach will have an uphill battle re: that match up. Ohio gets first mover's advantage in Ohio, the best FB state in the midwest by a large margin. tOSU has now taken over the second best state in the area, PA, to a large extent as well.

The scUM job was clearly on the demise prior to last year. No way you could have looked at Hoke's prospects and saw 11 wins (including a BCS win) in their immediate future. THat just further bolsters the idea that exciting things are happening in AA. It was a perfect storm for Hoke, going into last year I thought that the scUM job was on the same arc as the ND job, a nice historical job with some allure but huge problems and frankly I didnt see any way that was going to change in a year. Hoke got his perfect storm and revived that program in a year. In one year, against all odds, he erased a decade of disaster and mediocrity.

I am not worried about Chryst. Pitt is a 3rd tier program with 5th rate facilities. He will get some players, but he will not become a thorn in the side of the Meyer Machine in Columbus. I will be very VERY surprised if Zaire ends up at Pitt.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:21 pm

JCoz wrote:I know E0 I kind of took a b-line bringing up an old conversation about HC job value, and where Furls kind of swore of the UM job as dead because of a lack of interested talent and home cooked kids.

Dont know how it is over at scout, but at BN, about half to three quarters of these kids are completely dismissing everything UM's doing on the recruiting trail.


I don't remember the quote or context that you are referring to. I will say that scUM is an inferior job to tOSU and the scUM coach will have an uphill battle re: that match up. Ohio gets first mover's advantage in Ohio, the best FB state in the midwest by a large margin. tOSU has now taken over the second best state in the area, PA, to a large extent as well.

The scUM job was clearly on the demise prior to last year. No way you could have looked at Hoke's prospects and saw 11 wins (including a BCS win) in their immediate future. THat just further bolsters the idea that exciting things are happening in AA. It was a perfect storm for Hoke, going into last year I thought that the scUM job was on the same arc as the ND job, a nice historical job with some allure but huge problems and frankly I didnt see any way that was going to change in a year. Hoke got his perfect storm and revived that program in a year. In one year, against all odds, he erased a decade of disaster and mediocrity.

I am not worried about Cryst. Pitt is a 3rd tier program with 5th rate facilities. He will get some players, but he will not become a thorn in the side of the Meyer Machine in Columbus. I will be very VERY surprised if Zaire ends up at Pitt.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:25 pm

JCoz wrote:And Yeah, I think Cryst has a great staff and opportunity to bring that Program up to heights it hasn't seen in some time.

Landing a duo of Zaire and Foster sure would accelerate that process.


You mean like winning 9 games while playing in the Steeler's stadium? His staff is nice and I am sure they will see some improvement at Pitt, but if he really turns things around in any meaningful way he will move on and become the next head coach at "Major Program U" with a higher profile, better facilities and more $$.

He is the new Greg Schiano at a school with about the same facilities and disadvantages. Pitt is not a destination job and if he does well there, he will not be there long.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:36 pm

furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:I know E0 I kind of took a b-line bringing up an old conversation about HC job value, and where Furls kind of swore of the UM job as dead because of a lack of interested talent and home cooked kids.

Dont know how it is over at scout, but at BN, about half to three quarters of these kids are completely dismissing everything UM's doing on the recruiting trail.


I don't remember the quote or context that you are referring to. I will say that scUM is an inferior job to tOSU and the scUM coach will have an uphill battle re: that match up. Ohio gets first mover's advantage in Ohio, the best FB state in the midwest by a large margin. tOSU has now taken over the second best state in the area, PA, to a large extent as well.

The scUM job was clearly on the demise prior to last year. No way you could have looked at Hoke's prospects and saw 11 wins (including a BCS win) in their immediate future. THat just further bolsters the idea that exciting things are happening in AA. It was a perfect storm for Hoke, going into last year I thought that the scUM job was on the same arc as the ND job, a nice historical job with some allure but huge problems and frankly I didnt see any way that was going to change in a year. Hoke got his perfect storm and revived that program in a year. In one year, against all odds, he erased a decade of disaster and mediocrity.


It was some discussion about the top jobs in CFB and you didn’t feel UM belonged in the discussion. Them being a better job than OSU was never in the cards. What I was saying is that Michigan is still a top job, and you disagreed. IMO The last decade never mattered, as soon as they either hired a big name or got a no namer making noise that recruiting was going to turn around instantly. And IMO UM clearly has been the more national brand historically. Out of need, but they were and remain successful with the right people in place. The OSU job or Texas job or UM job and those top maybe 8-10 places don’t get tarnished by a few bad years on the field.. The UM job was never “on the demise” the team and coach just stunk. The Job never changed.

Its not a big deal, I couldn’t find the thread in a quick search, but I got the impression you thought the job was basically unrecoverable as far as being in that group of top jobs in CFB.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:39 pm

furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:And Yeah, I think Cryst has a great staff and opportunity to bring that Program up to heights it hasn't seen in some time.

Landing a duo of Zaire and Foster sure would accelerate that process.


You mean like winning 9 games while playing in the Steeler's stadium? His staff is nice and I am sure they will see some improvement at Pitt, but if he really turns things around in any meaningful way he will move on and become the next head coach at "Major Program U" with a higher profile, better facilities and more $$.

He is the new Greg Schiano at a school with about the same facilities and disadvantages. Pitt is not a destination job and if he does well there, he will not be there long.


I dont think playing for ACC championships is out of the question, it ain't exactly the SEC. Pitt's got it alot better in recruiting grounds than Schiano did, but you could surely be right.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby jb » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:04 pm

JCoz wrote:
furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:And Yeah, I think Cryst has a great staff and opportunity to bring that Program up to heights it hasn't seen in some time.

Landing a duo of Zaire and Foster sure would accelerate that process.


You mean like winning 9 games while playing in the Steeler's stadium? His staff is nice and I am sure they will see some improvement at Pitt, but if he really turns things around in any meaningful way he will move on and become the next head coach at "Major Program U" with a higher profile, better facilities and more $$.

He is the new Greg Schiano at a school with about the same facilities and disadvantages. Pitt is not a destination job and if he does well there, he will not be there long.


I dont think playing for ACC championships is out of the question, it ain't exactly the SEC. Pitt's got it alot better in recruiting grounds than Schiano did, but you could surely be right.



FWIW - I agree with you about the UM job. All you have to do is look at the all time wins list and that settles that. UM has true legacy brand positioning.

But I'm with Furls here. The Pitt facilities and atmosphere blows. Its an NFL City and still a Big Blue State even with all the tarnish. Pitt is just.... there. And WPIAL football isn't what it was. Pitt used to sustain on a 90 mile recruiting base. Add in that WVU is now in the Big 12 which is far sexier than the ACC and you can probably make the case that Rutgers is a better gig now. I'll take the E PA and NJ base over the WPIAL base now.

The format is skewed, but checkout their attendance. They can't break 50K unless the Subway Alumni come for the visitors.

Date Time Opponent Site TV Result Attendance
September 3 6:00 p.m. Buffalo* Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPN3 W 35–16 48,359
September 10 1:00 p.m. Maine* Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPN3 W 35–29 41,230
September 17 12:00 p.m. at Iowa* Kinnick Stadium • Iowa City, IA ESPN2 L 27–31 70,585
September 24 12:00 p.m. Notre Dame* Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ABC L 12–15 65,050
September 29 8:00 p.m. #14 South Florida Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPN W 44–17 40,025[11]
October 8 3:30 p.m. at Rutgers High Point Solutions Stadium • Piscataway, NJ ESPNU L 10–34 46,079
October 15 12:00 p.m. Utah* Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPNU L 14–26 43,719[12]
October 26 8:00 p.m. Connecticut Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPN W 35–20 40,219[13]
November 5 7:00 p.m. #22 Cincinnati Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA (River City Rivalry) ESPNU L 23–26 49,362[14]
November 12 12:00 p.m. at Louisville Papa John's Cardinal Stadium • Louisville, KY ESPN+/WTAE-TV W 21–14 51,321
November 25 7:00 p.m. at West Virginia Mountaineer Field • Morgantown, WV (Backyard Brawl) ESPN L 20–21 60,932[15]
December 3 12:00 p.m. Syracuse Heinz Field • Pittsburgh, PA ESPN2 W 33–20 40,058
January 7 1:00 p.m. vs. SMU* Legion Field • Birmingham, AL (BBVA Compass Bowl) ESPN L 6–28 29,726
*Non-conference game. Homecoming. #Rankings from Coaches Poll released prior to game. All times are in Eastern Time.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:11 pm

Look at Rutgets class this year, it was very good.

There is less than zero reason that can't be matched at Pitt.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:19 pm

I guess I should clarify, All I'm really saying that winning 10 games and competing for ACC championships is possible if that coaching staff is as good as I think they can be. They are there are a fortuitous time as well given the hobbled state of PSU. (however I seem to be in the minority that the football team will recover far quicker than "dead for a decade plus" some are selling)

Recruiting wise, the stache was able to recruit pretty well (for Big East standards here, lets not get carried away) he just blew nuts as a HC. I'm not sure why they couldn't win under Chryst.....

As for the long term, I mean I dont see some kind of FSU rise or anything. But he should be able to get WAY better classes than Schianno could IMO.

Furls is right though that this would almost certainly just be a stepping stone.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:25 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Look at Rutgets class this year, it was very good.

There is less than zero reason that can't be matched at Pitt.


It was very good.

Over the last 11 years the only ones in the Big East that outrecruited Pitt was WVU.

That was with WVU having much better teams over that span. I would expect that if Chryst can win, he might change things until he leaves and they sink back down and PSU rises back up.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:09 pm

JCoz wrote:
furls wrote:
JCoz wrote:I know E0 I kind of took a b-line bringing up an old conversation about HC job value, and where Furls kind of swore of the UM job as dead because of a lack of interested talent and home cooked kids.

Dont know how it is over at scout, but at BN, about half to three quarters of these kids are completely dismissing everything UM's doing on the recruiting trail.


I don't remember the quote or context that you are referring to. I will say that scUM is an inferior job to tOSU and the scUM coach will have an uphill battle re: that match up. Ohio gets first mover's advantage in Ohio, the best FB state in the midwest by a large margin. tOSU has now taken over the second best state in the area, PA, to a large extent as well.

The scUM job was clearly on the demise prior to last year. No way you could have looked at Hoke's prospects and saw 11 wins (including a BCS win) in their immediate future. THat just further bolsters the idea that exciting things are happening in AA. It was a perfect storm for Hoke, going into last year I thought that the scUM job was on the same arc as the ND job, a nice historical job with some allure but huge problems and frankly I didnt see any way that was going to change in a year. Hoke got his perfect storm and revived that program in a year. In one year, against all odds, he erased a decade of disaster and mediocrity.


It was some discussion about the top jobs in CFB and you didn’t feel UM belonged in the discussion. Them being a better job than OSU was never in the cards. What I was saying is that Michigan is still a top job, and you disagreed. IMO The last decade never mattered, as soon as they either hired a big name or got a no namer making noise that recruiting was going to turn around instantly. And IMO UM clearly has been the more national brand historically. Out of need, but they were and remain successful with the right people in place. The OSU job or Texas job or UM job and those top maybe 8-10 places don’t get tarnished by a few bad years on the field.. The UM job was never “on the demise” the team and coach just stunk. The Job never changed.

Its not a big deal, I couldn’t find the thread in a quick search, but I got the impression you thought the job was basically unrecoverable as far as being in that group of top jobs in CFB.


Whether or not scUM is an "Elite" job depends on how many schools you have in the "Elite Category." If the answer is 5, then it is no. If the answer is 10, the answer is probably.

scUM is a destination job. Most jobs would be a lateral move at best, or such a slight increase that I don't think a successful scUM coach woul(d move. I think being the scUM coach is a tough deal; you have all the expectations of an OSU, USC, TX, or SEC school without good in state football.

Personally, if I had to rank the jobs I would say they are:

1. USC
2. 'Bama
3. Texas
4. tOSU
5. Florida
6. LSU
7. scUM (I would have PSU here about 6 months ago)
8. Oregon
9. Oklahoma
10. Notre Dame
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:24 pm

Obviously all stuff about the jobs was just opinion, your results will vary.

Who knows what will happen with Pitt. I think the Chryst staff will improve things at Pitt, but I don't see them as any type of real threat. tOSU has done very well in Western PA over the last few years and I think that continues, I still think tOSU has the inside track to Cherry picking Western PA regardless of Chryst.

I think Pitt is a hell of a stepping stone job and I wouldn't be surprised to see Chryst as the HC at Georgia or aTm or something like that in 3-4 years.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:19 am

I would say jobs you would never leave for another (exempting circumstances like alma matter) Is a pretty good place to start defining that kind of thing.

I'll say there is a job you've got in there that IMO doesn't exactly fit in with the others.

Not really for this thread though, so I'll stop my Bline right there.

OSU will continue to cherry pick in PSU's territory only until PSU finds their next "Guy" so to speak. Then that will most likely be the end of that. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby furls » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:40 am

ND?
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:50 am

furls wrote:ND?


You could make that argument, but no, Oregon IMO, has absolutely no business in there. If Chipper gets a show cause and there is no more Texa$ connection, where will they be in 5 years? Thats a coach more than a team, Knight or no. At least in my eyes.
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Re: 2013 Recruiting

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:51 am

I've really fucked up this thread though, can a mod with the skills just chop off the Jobs discussion into a dif thread? This one is going to be used for some time this year.....my bad.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby furls » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:26 am

Done
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Re: NCAA coaching job

Unread postby furls » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:33 am

I think the Nike factor, facilities, general lack of major west coast programs makes Oregon a very good job. They, in large part due to ESPN's endless pimping and Nike's money, are the new sexy! I hate that school and Chip Kelly and I hope the NCAA burns it to the ground, but that doesn't change its current allure.

Out west you have USC, Stanford and Oregon right now, that is it west of Austin. There are lots of great players out there that want to be part of the excitement surrounding that program. One year ago, I looked at scUM as starting the journey to irrelevance. Hoke accomplished a lot more than I thought was possible, he got a lot of breaks, but in the end, you make your own luck.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby furls » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:33 am

Let's see how things go for Hoke next year. The schedule is FAR less favorable.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:27 pm

Honestly Furls I'm not sure it matters that much, he's looking to have a class at least as good as last years. I expect probably about the same as you do for UM, but those are still RR's issues he's dealing with. I'd say let's see how things go the year after, both in recruiting after what we both believe will be a worse season, and on the field as they transition from Denard.
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Re: NCAA coaching job

Unread postby JCoz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:00 pm

furls wrote:I think the Nike factor, facilities, general lack of major west coast programs makes Oregon a very good job. They, in large part due to ESPN's endless pimping and Nike's money, are the new sexy! I hate that school and Chip Kelly and I hope the NCAA burns it to the ground, but that doesn't change its current allure.

Out west you have USC, Stanford and Oregon right now, that is it west of Austin. There are lots of great players out there that want to be part of the excitement surrounding that program. One year ago, I looked at scUM as starting the journey to irrelevance. Hoke accomplished a lot more than I thought was possible, he got a lot of breaks, but in the end, you make your own luck.


I agree that its a "nice" job, but its at it's likely height right now with Chip Kelly as their coach. The Flashy offense is a perfect fit with Nike and their flashy uniforms, but my point is that its by no means a destination job.

Oregon is not a job that you wouldn't leave for another, better Job, like USC, OSU, Texas, etc. It simply does not belong with those and likely never will. Oregon just won its first Rose bowl in 100 years.

Oregon IMO isn't even as good a job as Georgia, who isn't a true destination school either.

To be honest, its pretty damn tough to be a great job over in the west coast, if we aren't talking about California weather and beaches. And Eugene is no Cali. If Oregon lost Kelly tomorrow and didn't replace him with an even better coach, IMO people wouldn't even watch their highlights on SC, except to see the newest flashy uni, but that only goes so far with 8-win seasons.

I mean I just truly have a difficult time seeing how you can write off UM after 4 shitty years on the field while sticking Oregon up there for a couple good years on the field. Kelly makes that job a good one more than Oregon+Knight make it a good job for him.

After all, where would Nike be without its Star's promotion? Nowhere, IMO.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby furls » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:49 pm

scUM was on the decline going into the Dick Rod era, whereas Oregon was on the rise. Tradition is nice and it does play a factor, but you also have to remember that they are recruiting young guys and young guys have short memories and like shiny objects. Oregon is a shiny object. They have exactly the opposite momentum that scUM had going into last year.

Don't discount the Phil Knight factor, when Chip Kelly gets canned they will bring in a monster coach. Oregon has the best facilities in the NCAA. They put on great camps and wow a lot of great players.

I hate Oregon and Chip Kelly, I hope the NCAA nukes them. That said, given a choice between Oregon and Georgia, I would take the Oregon job in a hot minute.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:07 pm

Furls you are making points that would SEEM to make sense regarding those kids, but reality shows us that simply is not the case. Michigan just had one good season after the worst stretch in its history and is already bringing in a better rated class than oregon has in any of the last 10 years. And they are following it up with another that will undoubtably be in that same category this year. An thats WITH Chip personally using university funds to purchase influence on teenagers in Texas, and despite being in what is arguably a better region of talent, and with all the Nike flash and ESPN promotion. All that and Oregon still cannot land top ten classes. I mean it's right there in the results IMO. The kids aren't following the shiny objects they are following tradition.

The cool thing about this mini-debate, is that we might get to see in short order how this goes, at lease as far as Oregon post-Kelly, but the recruiting issue IMO is not a very debatable topic.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby gnati » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:10 pm

If UNati played at Paul Brown, I am not sure I could tell the difference between the current state of the Pitt program and the UNati program. Pitt has history and marginally better following from the locals, but both are sucking hind tit to the big boy in the state (once Penn State cleans the mess up in Aisle 5).

Paraphrasing my good friend Moz, I am a sychophantic slag for Orygun and even I dont think it is a top 10 program. Resources are nice but sustainability requires players and the number one thing in recruiting is location. There are like 5 people who play high school football in the entire state. Eugene is nicely located if you are stoned and dont mind a long trip, but to get there you have to go to the end of the earth, take a left and keep going for another 100 or so miles. Washington, Idaho and Norther California (basically about a 500 mile radius) suck just as much for kids. Their model requires them to continually play on kids with shiny new helmets, go into other peoples back yards and take kids, and convince friends and family that those shiny helmets are worth never seeing them play in person again. Either that, or go the bad grades, JUCO, legal problem route...which also is a house of cards.

I love the state. Most beautiful place I have ever been and plan to live there again someday - but when I do, they will not be thought of as a top 10 program
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby furls » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:43 pm

Don't under estimate the power of that good pacific NW weed as a recruiting tool.
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Re: NCAA coaching jobs

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:49 pm

^^^^ From what I heard while my days in Seattle.......hydroponics......immerse the seeds and they will come.
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