Cavs v Piss-tons (Irving putting on a 4th Q clinic)

[statmasta]

And we already have Pros shitting all over this forum, frankly why in the fuck do we have to read you too now? Stop staying stupid shit and I'll stop telling you to go the fuck away.

Sullinger comp'd to Love, shoot me in the fucking face for even having been forced to read that.

http://swishscout.com/?page_id=683
Long Story Short:Physical, big body post ‘banger’ who’s a double-double machine, knows how to take advantage of his size and strength to establish deep position in paint and crash the boards. Not athletically great and a tad under ideal NBA PF size, but has a great budding post game, nice ball skills and that big body to ultimately warrant him as a high lottery pick when he declares for the NBA Draft.

Best Case Scenario: Kevin Love

-----

"Chad Ford: Every scout has different comp for Jared Sullinger: Kevin Love, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Paul Millsap. All 4 worthy of Top 5 pick"

Wow, Chad Ford says that real scouts are comparing Sullinger to Kevin Love? Shoot me in the fucking face for having to read that. Right?

Keep living with your head in the sand.

[Orenthal]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/jonas-valanci ... -nba-r-o-y

[e0y2e3]

I'm certainly a big fan of a shit scouting service that has a report they wrote in 2009 on Sullinger being used as evidence....

It's really up-to-date and not the single worst draft website out there.

No, get to it, go find me a real scouting report. CHOP CHOP.

[Orenthal]

The TT stuff is reactionary to people getting hard ons over an inconsistent project. It doesn't mean guy doesn't have potential, it just means stfu and stop talking about him right now like he is Irving. Very simple stuff.

[e0y2e3]

And BTW: until you acknowledge that Love' mentality is 99% of the reason for his success and Sullinger is a giant pussy, you're really being a fool.

Sullinger's ceiling is probably a Scola type, which wouldn't be bad at all if he could find a way to reach it.

He'll never shoot as well as Love, never rebound as well and never have the hustle make-up or the outlet passing game. He also will probably end up playing center in the NBA, where Love has always been a PF. But hey, don't let that get in the way.

If you want to compare "not the tallest guys ever and not the most athletic" to comp Love to Sully, go right on ahead, but there is where the comps stop. If Sullinger could get more athletic Milsap would probably be his best comp, but again, being a pussy is going to hurt him there and he's not even Milsap athletic.

[e0y2e3]

Also, I'm really glad you found swishhoops.net and a random off the cuff remark from Ford.

Please go analyze their actual games (I mean, Love is possibly the most unique player ever in the NBA, but hey let's keep comparing him to Sullinger because they are short and not that athletic!!!!).

It's a ridiculous diservice to compare the most unique and hardest working player in the league to Jared fucking Sullinger, but lazy fucks like you are going to do so for every single undersized PF that comes out for the next ten years, rest assured of that.

[Orenthal]

Anyway if we want to discuss young NBA bigs lets talk about Kanter and his sick rebounding %.

[e0y2e3]

The TT stuff is reactionary to people getting hard ons over an inconsistent project. It doesn't mean guy doesn't have potential, it just means stfu and stop talking about him right now like he is Irving. Very simple stuff.

There is nothing reactionary to a PF shooting 42% from the floor.

Biyombo is at 54%, FTR.

[e0y2e3]

Anyway if we want to discuss young NBA bigs lets talk about Kanter and his sick rebounding %.

Do you just orgasm when you watch Big Al, Milsap, Kanter and Favors all rotating?

[peeker643]

I don't know where e0y is right now but I'm laughing at the fact his blood pressure is likely in the 200/120 range and you can fry an egg on his forehead.

[Orenthal]

The TT stuff is reactionary to people getting hard ons over an inconsistent project. It doesn't mean guy doesn't have potential, it just means stfu and stop talking about him right now like he is Irving. Very simple stuff.

There is nothing reactionary to a PF shooting 42% from the floor.

Biyombo is at 54%, FTR.

Respectable. I defer. It probably is closer to truth, and only relatively reactionary. Still I see a bit more potential and find myself in the very lonely middle ground on TT.

[e0y2e3]

You're an asshole as is this dumbfuck stat, thus I place his posting ceiling at "Peeker"

Very similar people because you have that one thing in common.

[Orenthal]

Anyway if we want to discuss young NBA bigs lets talk about Kanter and his sick rebounding %.

Do you just orgasm when you watch Big Al, Milsap, Kanter and Favors all rotating?

There really is nothing better then that mix of big, slow, polished, explosive in the NBA. A virtual orgy of NBA big man talent.

Yes.

[statmasta]

And BTW: until you acknowledge that Love' mentality is 99% of the reason for his success and Sullinger is a giant pussy, you're really being a fool.

Sullinger's ceiling is probably a Scola type, which wouldn't be bad at all if he could find a way to reach it.

He'll never shoot as well as Love, never rebound as well and never have the hustle make-up or the outlet passing game. He also will probably end up playing center in the NBA, where Love has always been a PF. But hey, don't let that get in the way.

If you want to compare "not the tallest guys ever and not the most athletic" to comp Love to Sully, go right on ahead, but there is where the comps stop. If Sullinger could get more athletic Milsap would probably be his best comp, but again, being a pussy is going to hurt him there and he's not even Milsap athletic.

Mentality? What happened to skill set being the reason?

He'll never shoot as well as Love (except he's shooting as well as Love did in college). He'll never rebound as well (except he's rebounding as well as Love did in college). He'll also end up playing center in the NBA (because NBA teams love 6'9" guys with no hops at center. Definitely center material to NBA teams. If Love isn't a center, why would Sullinger be one?).

Mmmhmm, fantastic points. Yep.

I'm not saying Sulliner is Kevin Love, but he could be if he reaches his potential. And were you saying Love was so mentally tough when he put up 12 points on 36% shooting in the NCAA tournament against an undersized Memphis front line? Doubt it.

[e0y2e3]

Kevin Love was draining 3's at 15. It was always a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE part of his game that he literally was told not to use at UCLA. Sullinger is a fringe big that can make a three on occasion, he will never be a wing playing PF like Love, just fucking stop.

And Love has always killed himself for every ball on the floor within twelve miles, on top of that he some sixth sense that gets him there. The NBA also has never seen a player with a better understanding how to position themselves for rebounds, never, ever. Sullinger will never have this and no one else will.

Love has the outlet passes, something no one else in the NBA has.

Go away you fucking idiot, seriously. How many games did you watch Love play in college? How many in the NBA? How closely did you follow him in high school?

JUST BECAUSE TWO GUYS ARE NOT IDEALLY SIZED AND NOT GREATLY ATHLETIC DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THE SAME, AND JUST BECAUES SULLINGER ATTEMPTS UNDER A SINGLE THREE A GAME DOES NOT MAKE HIM A THREE POINT SHOOTER, SOMETHING LOVE WAS DOING AT AAU CAMPS FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE COLLEGE, WHEREAS SULLINGER WAS SPENDING HIS TIME AT THOSE CAMPS TRYING TO DEVELOP A MID-RANGE GAME.

Love has never played the back to the basket style the Sullinger relies on either, Sullinger actually has a better post game, more similar to someone like Scola (although Scola is ages ahead).

And yes, Sullinger will probably end up an undersized 5 unless he keeps cutting weight, because he isn't athletic enough to play any defense at the four and will not be dropping 30-20 consistently like KEVIN LOVE AND THE MOST UNIQUE SKILL SET IN THE NBA.

[peeker643]

Closest comp for Sullinger is a taller Mike Vick.

[statmasta]

Kevin Love was draining 3's at 15. It was always a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE part of his game that he literally was told not to use at UCLA. Sullinger is a fringe big that can make a three on occasion, he will never be a wing playing PF like Love, just fucking stop.

And Love has always killed himself for every ball on the floor within twelve miles, on top of that he some sixth sense that gets him there. The NBA also has never seen a player with a better understanding how to position themselves for rebounds, never, ever. Sullinger will never have this and no one else will.

Love has the outlet passes, something no one else in the NBA has.

Go away you fucking idiot, seriously. How many games did you watch Love play in college? How many in the NBA? How closely did you follow him in high school?

JUST BECAUSE TWO GUYS ARE NOT IDEALLY SIZED AND NOT GREATLY ATHLETIC DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THE SAME, AND JUST BECAUES SULLINGER ATTEMPTS UNDER A SINGLE THREE A GAME DOES NOT MAKE HIM A THREE POINT SHOOTER, SOMETHING LOVE WAS DOING AT AAU CAMPS FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE COLLEGE, WHEREAS SULLINGER WAS SPENDING HIS TIME AT THOSE CAMPS TRYING TO DEVELOP A MID-RANGE GAME.

Love has never played the back to the basket style the Sullinger relies on either, Sullinger actually has a better post game, more similar to someone like Scola (although Scola is ages ahead).

And yes, Sullinger will probably end up an undersized 5 unless he keeps cutting weight, because he isn't athletic enough to play any defense at the four and will not be dropping 30-20 consistently like KEVIN LOVE AND THE MOST UNIQUE SKILL SET IN THE NBA.

JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY DISAGREES WITH YOU DOES NOT MEAN YOU NEED TO FUCKING ERUPT IN PURE RAGE

And just because a guy hasn't been a 3-point shooter doesn't mean he lacks the skills to be one. THAT'S THE BASIS OF MY ENTIRE ARGUMENT. Go back to the first post where I compared Sullinger to Love. I said Sullinger needs to become more of an outside player and start taking threes, because yes, he doesn't shoot from the outside nearly as much as Love did. That's why he needs to change his game to mimick Love's game. I think he can do that because he appears to have the shooting touch to do so.

Go away you're fucking idiot, I disagree with you so that makes you a fucking idiot and I can't afford to associate with such an inferior being. /sarcasm

[e0y2e3]

Yep, Kevin Love, making threes since he was fifteen is very comprable to Jared Sulling suddenly attempting almost one per game at twenty!!!

So now you are claiming Sullinger can change his game to match Love's. Yep... you just won dumbest fucking moron to ever post in the cess-pool so good for you.

[e0y2e3]

Ya know, when I watch Jared Sulling play I just see 30-20 dropping NBA All-Star that makes game winning three from ten feet past the top of the Arc, that is what I see.

[e0y2e3]

Closest comp for Sullinger is a taller Mike Vick.

As much of an ass as you are, your point here is dead nuts on.

It's the same fucking terrible argument.

[leadpipe]

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger are entirely different players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.

They are closer in color than they are to players.

[statmasta]

Yep, Kevin Love, making threes since he was fifteen is very comprable to Jared Sulling suddenly attempting almost one per game at twenty!!!

So now you are claiming Sullinger can change his game to match Love's. Yep... you just won dumbest fucking moron to ever post in the cess-pool so good for you.

What happened to "skill set" talk? That go away?

Jared Sullinger has that skill set. He has a good shooting touch. He can hit threes, yes, it's a small sample of 3pt attempts, but he has a smooth, consistent shooting motion and I don't think his 40% 3pt percentage this year is fluky. If he focuses on making that a part of his game, he can become an outside threat.

Think there's no precedent for an inside presence transforming his game? You're wrong. Channing Frye attempted 23 3-pointers in his entire 4-year college career. As a senior Frye was 3-17 from 3pt range. Over the past 3 seasons in the NBA, though, Frye is making 2 3-pointers per game and shooting 40% from deep (389-965). Is it rare? Sure. Can it happen? Absolutely. Sullinger has the talent do become a 3pt threat. If you disagree, that's fine, but you can disagree respectfully.

[e0y2e3]

OMFG

I quit.

You win.

Continue to be the dumbest fucking nob that posts here, I don't care, I just won't be arguing about it with you.

Channing Frye is now in this gawd damned conversation, athleticism has been removed from the equation and my brains are splatter throughout my office. Kudos to you, not even Pros can hit this low point.

[statmasta]

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger are entirely different players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.

They are closer in color than they are to players.

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sulliner are somewhat similar players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.






See? I can play this game, too. If you want to participate in an mature debate, I'll be around.

[statmasta]

OMFG

I quit.

You win.

Continue to be the dumbest fucking nob that posts here, I don't care, I just won't be arguing about it with you.

Channing Frye is now in this gawd damned conversation, athleticism has been removed from the equation and my brains are splatter throughout my office. Kudos to you, not even Pros can hit this low point.

It just now hit me how retarded it is to attempt to have a mature debate with e0y2e3. I clearly came to the wrong place to have civilized conversation. My life has definitely hit rock bottom trying to argue with a certificated retard.

[leadpipe]

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger are entirely different players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.

They are closer in color than they are to players.

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sulliner are somewhat similar players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.






See? I can play this game, too. If you want to participate in an mature debate, I'll be around.

The fact you'll be around is bad news indeed.

It's better when you're not around dumbin' up the site.

[statmasta]

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger are entirely different players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.

They are closer in color than they are to players.

Being unable to see that Kevin Love and Jared Sulliner are somewhat similar players is perhaps the best example of "not watching the games" as about any - in a website filled with humps that apparently "don't watch the games."

Good holy Christ.






See? I can play this game, too. If you want to participate in an mature debate, I'll be around.

The fact you'll be around is bad news indeed.

It's better when you're not around dumbin' up the site.

Hey, I disagree with this guy's opinion! HEY GUY, YOUR OPINION IS DISAGREEABLE WITH MINE!

EVERYBODY GRAB YOUR TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS! RAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

I made a comparison that tons of people have been making for years, it's out there. I'm hardly the first and I won't be the last to see similarities in their games. It's not like I said we could trade for Dwight Howard.

Jesus christ.

[peeker643]

Closest comp for Sullinger is a taller Mike Vick.

As much of an ass as you are, your point here is dead nuts on.

Nicest thing you've ever said to me. By a lot.

[motherscratcher]

No, just fucking no, just go away and stop posting.

Sullinger is about as like Kevin Love as I am Kyrie Irving. There is NOTHING similar between their games. Like zero. Kevin Love has always had an EXTREMELY unique skill set and the question was a matter if that UNIQUE set of skills would translate or not, it did.

Sullinger is the mehest of meh and is elite or unique in no ways.

1) Why are you so upset? You can't debate without telling somebody to go away?

I'm not gonna debate you Statmasta.



I'm not gonna sit here...

and debate.

[Prosecutor]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jared-Sullinger-5029/

Another draft site that lists Love as a Sullinger comp. I can't see much if any similarity in their styles of play, and I don't think Sullinger will reach anywhere near Love's level of success, but statmasta isn't the first to link the two.

Sullinger is hitting 45% of his 3's, so I can see him evolving into a stretch 4 in the pros. With his height and jumping limitations I doubt he'll be able to make his living exclusively in the low post. He should definitely try to emulate Love, but whether he can take his game to that level is another question.

[e0y2e3]

Pros you dumb fuck, go read that DX profile and then go read the Love DX profile.

They list Love (and two other undersized PFs who play nothing like each other or Love) as examples of undersized guys with questionable athleticism succeeding as big. THEY NEVER COMPARE THEIR STYLES OF PLAY, NOT EVEN A TEENY TINY BIT.

Learn to read dumbass.

And then read the Scouting report and WATCH FUCKING KEVIN LOVE PLAY BASKETBALL.

Sullinger will never, ever, ever be a stretch four that lives on the perimeter. Never. Ever.

[e0y2e3]

And if you had any fucking reading comprehension Pros you would get that Peek was making the exact point that undersized and athletically challenged in no way makes two PF/Cs comparable players in the same way RG3 and Vick are not comprable but dumbfucks keep mentioning similiarities in their games.

Then you get huge dumbasses like you that can't even comprehend the Scouting report you are reading.

So if you would like me to seed that their are numerous examples of non-freak athlete undersized PFs making it in the NBA and the Kevin Love is one of them, godspeed, you got me.

They still are nothing alike BECAUSE KEVIN LOVE HAS THE MOST UNIQUE SKILL SET IN THE NBA. Sullinger is a smaller and less athletic version of Al Horford. And I love Horford (a lot) but being a smaller and less athletic version of him is not good.

[Larvell Blanks]

I'm higher on Thompson than most. The biggest knock seems to be his offense, but on a per minute basis he's scoring more than Varajao, Gibson, and Gee. I know he has no moves and can't shoot, but somehow he's scoring 6.8 points per 18.1 minutes, which puts him behind only KI and Jamison. Sorry, those are the numbers.

Are they projectable? Well, the other night he got to play 30 minutes and scored 16 points, so maybe they are. We'll see.

Defensively he leads the team in blocks by a huge margin. I wish they had a statistic for defensive stops because I think he's doing well in that area, too.

For example, last night the Cavs were making their late game run and the Pistons got the ball to Greg Monroe, their leading scorer on the season. He was isolated against TT and tried to drive baseline, but TT was quick enough (unlike Hollins or Erden) to cut him off. Monroe dribbled off his foot out of bounds and the Cavs momentum continued.

That's one isolated play, but I've seen TT use his quickness, length, and jumping ability to force a lot of missed shots this year, and without fouling. IMO he has the potential to be an elite defender because he has the strength, quick feet, and jumping ability to defend bigs and also to switch off the bigs and swat layups.

As for rebounding, he's behind only Andy in rebounds per minute. When he learns to be more selective and not try to block every shot, he'll get more boards.

The kid is 20 years old with one year of college experience and really doesn't know what he's doing most the time, but he's already a contributor and his upside in terms of defense and rebounding is very high. He's raw and makes mistakes, but describing him as a black hole is a bit extreme, IMO. The ankle injury set him back temporarily, but he seems to be getting back on track as evidenced by his game against the Kings the other night.

The key for the Cavs is to get a scorer at the off guard and small forward positions to they don't need TT to do any more offensively than hit the glass and finish off dribble penetration.

Awesome, the rebuild plan is coming together. We've developed the future 7th or 8th player in the rotation. Nothing like having that 2nd defensive stopper (behind AV) on a team that is clearly offensively challenged. The future looks bright being able to play 3 on 5 offensive sets w/ no wing player and no SG. As I said in another thread, TT needs to be a high energy player off your bench for defensive purposes only. He should never be a key player in your rotation, especially when you already have an established high energy defensive player as a part of your core.

[Larvell Blanks]

the only things missing from this thread is someone calling out stat as Jennifer and a cameo from Dingle Stetson!

[e0y2e3]

If you merged this thread with the Howard thread the world would end.

[Orenthal]

Kevin Love was draining 3's at 15. It was always a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE part of his game that he literally was told not to use at UCLA. Sullinger is a fringe big that can make a three on occasion, he will never be a wing playing PF like Love, just fucking stop.

And Love has always killed himself for every ball on the floor within twelve miles, on top of that he some sixth sense that gets him there. The NBA also has never seen a player with a better understanding how to position themselves for rebounds, never, ever. Sullinger will never have this and no one else will.

Love has the outlet passes, something no one else in the NBA has.

Go away you fucking idiot, seriously. How many games did you watch Love play in college? How many in the NBA? How closely did you follow him in high school?

JUST BECAUSE TWO GUYS ARE NOT IDEALLY SIZED AND NOT GREATLY ATHLETIC DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THE SAME, AND JUST BECAUES SULLINGER ATTEMPTS UNDER A SINGLE THREE A GAME DOES NOT MAKE HIM A THREE POINT SHOOTER, SOMETHING LOVE WAS DOING AT AAU CAMPS FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE COLLEGE, WHEREAS SULLINGER WAS SPENDING HIS TIME AT THOSE CAMPS TRYING TO DEVELOP A MID-RANGE GAME.

Love has never played the back to the basket style the Sullinger relies on either, Sullinger actually has a better post game, more similar to someone like Scola (although Scola is ages ahead).

And yes, Sullinger will probably end up an undersized 5 unless he keeps cutting weight, because he isn't athletic enough to play any defense at the four and will not be dropping 30-20 consistently like KEVIN LOVE AND THE MOST UNIQUE SKILL SET IN THE NBA.

Hey what about Bill Russell? I remember once seeing an investment commercial about how Bill positioned himself before the rebound, just like one should have positioned themselves in HAL weeks ago when I first mentioned it in NHB.

[Prosecutor]

Awesome, the rebuild plan is coming together. We've developed the future 7th or 8th player in the rotation. Nothing like having that 2nd defensive stopper (behind AV) on a team that is clearly offensively challenged. The future looks bright being able to play 3 on 5 offensive sets w/ no wing player and no SG. As I said in another thread, TT needs to be a high energy player off your bench for defensive purposes only. He should never be a key player in your rotation, especially when you already have an established high energy defensive player as a part of your core.

7th or 8th player? I don't think so, especially after Jamison moves on. I see Thompson as a Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman type player - mainly a rebounder and defender, but good enough in those areas to not only start but be a key contributor. Whether TT will ever reach that level of defense and rebounding is the question, but if he does, he'll be a significant player, just as those guys were.

High energy player off the bench for defensive purposes only? Again, I think his potential is higher than that. Right now he has no idea what to do with the ball in his hands and can't hit free throws to save his life, but somehow he's averaging more points per minute than anybody except KI and Jamison. Last night was a good example as he got 10 points and 10 boards in 15 minutes.

2nd defensive stopper on an offensively challenged team? First of all, the Cavs need a defensive stopper to neutralize the great 4's in this league: Love, Stoudamire, Aldridge, Gasol, Griffin, Nowitzki, Lee, Bosh, etc. Those guys will destroy you if you don't have a very good defender at the 4. Varajao is a center. Secondly, the plan (I assume) is to use free agency and the draft to add more scorers. I'll be shocked if the Cavs don't take a SG or SF with offensive skills with their first pick.

You can't win with five guys who aspire to lead the NBA in scoring anymore than you can win with five rebounders but no offensive game. It takes balance and TT will be a key piece once they add a couple more scorers to complement KI.

[Orenthal]

The best point made so far is the Sully back to the basket game. Taking five minutes to read the Love profile, without watching any games, would display he has never been a back to the basket player. Then there is all the other stuff...

[e0y2e3]

Nonsense OJ, making threes at 30-40% a game and attempting less than one a game means that Sullinger (even though he is incredibly unathletic, even more so than Love and Milsap) can magicaly snap his fingers and become a stretch four.

It's simple really...

Guy has spent his entire career working back to the basket because he is slow as fuck, but that doesn't matter a bit....

[Orenthal]

Where exactly is Andy getting shipped off to that makes TT anything more then 1 or 2 big off the bench? You can't start both those guys unless you want to kill Irving and to a much lesser extent Gee's ability to drive into the paint. There would be some sagging going on that would make East 105 jealous.

Andy starts in every realistic scenario near and mid-term. His constant 20-30 game vacation might be making that long term too. Nothing changes until you land both and offensive option at the 5 and Andy isn't on the team. I highly discount TT's ability to develop enough offense to start him over Andy who has 1,000 times the offensive game than TT...

[Orenthal]

Sully a stretch four? Why not. Like a fat JAMO.

[Larvell Blanks]

Awesome, the rebuild plan is coming together. We've developed the future 7th or 8th player in the rotation. Nothing like having that 2nd defensive stopper (behind AV) on a team that is clearly offensively challenged. The future looks bright being able to play 3 on 5 offensive sets w/ no wing player and no SG. As I said in another thread, TT needs to be a high energy player off your bench for defensive purposes only. He should never be a key player in your rotation, especially when you already have an established high energy defensive player as a part of your core.

7th or 8th player? I don't think so, especially after Jamison moves on. I see Thompson as a Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman type player - mainly a rebounder and defender, but good enough in those areas to not only start but be a key contributor. Whether TT will ever reach that level of defense and rebounding is the question, but if he does, he'll be a significant player, just as those guys were.

High energy player off the bench for defensive purposes only? Again, I think his potential is higher than that. Right now he has no idea what to do with the ball in his hands and can't hit free throws to save his life, but somehow he's averaging more points per minute than anybody except KI and Jamison. Last night was a good example as he got 10 points and 10 boards in 15 minutes.

2nd defensive stopper on an offensively challenged team? First of all, the Cavs need a defensive stopper to neutralize the great 4's in this league: Love, Stoudamire, Aldridge, Gasol, Griffin, Nowitzki, Lee, Bosh, etc. Those guys will destroy you if you don't have a very good defender at the 4. Varajao is a center. Secondly, the plan (I assume) is to use free agency and the draft to add more scorers. I'll be shocked if the Cavs don't take a SG or SF with offensive skills with their first pick.

You can't win with five guys who aspire to lead the NBA in scoring anymore than you can win with five rebounders but no offensive game. It takes balance and TT will be a key piece once they add a couple more scorers to complement KI.

So having 2 similar players in AV and TT starting is going to work for you?


I'm talking 7th or 8th once/if this team gets the pieces it needs, not this year when Jamison gets moved and TT starts by default. And I can't wait to see an undersized TT go head to head w/ the players you listed above. It worked so well with Jamo vs Garnett in '10. I'd feel more at ease if he showed the potetial of Wallace/Rodman but I don't see it...yet. Those guys were much smarter defenders and relied on tecnique as much as athleticism.


Rodman was a key contributor because he got easy buckets and was surrounded by scorers. Same with Wallace. You can't have an offensive combo of AV and TT on the floor. Two players with two similar skill sets which will hamper your offense even if they get a SG and SF that can fill it up.



Let's see where his points per minute go once he becomes a starter.

[HoodooMan]

Aaron Craft is the next Gary Payton.



^Aaron Craft

[jb]

<------ Now admits Sully = Dan Fortson

[Larvell Blanks]

<------ Now admits Sully = Dan Fortson

/ thread

[dmiles]

Closest comp for Sullinger is a taller Mike Vick.

That's raciss. Always comping black-to-black or white-to-white. I say a shorter Chris Kaman. Or a fat Eduardo Najara

[peeker643]

Closest comp for Sullinger is a taller Mike Vick.

That's raciss. Always comping black-to-black or white-to-white. I say a shorter Chris Kaman. Or a fat Eduardo Najara

Nice.

But Najara had a pair. That was all he had, but he had balls. So the Sully/Najara comp ends there.

[Prosecutor]

So having 2 similar players in AV and TT starting is going to work for you?

If TT ends up being similar to AV, hell yeah.

I'm talking 7th or 8th once/if this team gets the pieces it needs, not this year when Jamison gets moved and TT starts by default.

What power forward do you see the Cavs acquiring that will put TT on the bench after Jamison leaves? Keep in mind the starting SG and SF at the moment are Parker and Casspi, and Parker is done. I'm thinking the Cavs might want to use their free agent chips and top draft pick to shore up those positions before they attempt to upgrade the position where they just used the #4 overall pick.

And I can't wait to see an undersized TT go head to head w/ the players you listed above.

When you factor in his 7' wingspan and 42" vertical he's not exactly undersized. Scott has him playing center now part of the time.

It worked so well with Jamo vs Garnett in '10.

Jamo is an offensive oriented player.

I'd feel more at ease if he showed the potetial of Wallace/Rodman but I don't see it...yet. Those guys were much smarter defenders and relied on tecnique as much as athleticism.

I think he has the potential to be that kind of a defender. Once he starts logging starters' minutes and gains experience, his smarts and technique will improve. Right now he's getting by on natural ability alone.

Rodman was a key contributor because he got easy buckets and was surrounded by scorers. Same with Wallace. You can't have an offensive combo of AV and TT on the floor. Two players with two similar skill sets which will hamper your offense even if they get a SG and SF that can fill it up.

You could be right, but I don't see either AV or TT as offensive black holes. Here are the Cavs scoring numbers so far this year in terms of points scored per 10 minutes of playing time:

Irving 5.8
Jamison 5.3
Sessions 4.1
Thompson 3.8
Gee 3.7
Varajao 3.4
Casspi 3.3
Gibson 2.9

TT is already a middle-of-the-pack scorer despite being pretty clueless with the ball in his hands and shooting 40% at the foul line. No reason to think his scoring won't improve with experience.



Let's see where his points per minute go once he becomes a starter.

As his minutes increase, his learning curve will accelerate, so his scoring should increase. Unless you believe his points are coming at the expense of backups and that will change once he becomes a starter.

I'm not seeing the next Nowitzke by any means, but I like the kid's combination of quickness, length, ability to jump quickly and high, and work ethic. He looks lost and awkward, but somehow he's 4th in points per minute even though I'm convinced he doesn't know what hand he's going to shoot with until he releases the ball. I could be wrong on this, but he'll be more than a 7th/8th man once the rebuild is complete.

[e0y2e3]

I love it when point scored per ten minutes is more meaningful THAN SHOOTING 42% FROM THE FIELD

Why have I been reading your dumb ass in this thread?

Fuckin eh, I'm done, I promise

Don't you have Sausha Kaun to be monitoring or something?

[pup]

Anyone ever seen Prosecutor and Chris Grant in the same place at the same time?